Forretress (QC 2/3) written

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QC: Sweep / Hack /
GP: /


Overview
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Forretress is a highly mediocre Pokemon in the metagame. However, it can now use Custap Berry since its release, which gives Forretress a small niche. Outside of that, it doesn't have any other viable set. A good supportive movepool with options such as Rapid Spin also makes Forretress a good pick on certain teams. Furthermore, Forretress has a very high Defense stat which helps it taking physical attacks. A good ability in Sturdy allows Forretress to get up at least one entry hazard. It also has an okay typing with only a single weakness, but 4x weak to Fire-type attacks. However, Forretress has a very mediocre HP and Special Defense stat let down its good Defense. Forretress is also set up bait because of its mediocre offensive stats. What also holds Forretress back is that it has no access to reliable recovery. It is also Very slow, it can barely outspeed anything in the metagame. Lastly, Forretress faces heavy competition as a hazard setter from the Deoxys-formes, Greninja, and Ferrothorn, but its niche lies in access to Rapid Spin and Toxic Spikes.


Rapid Spin
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name: Rapid Spin
move 1: Rapid Spin
move 2: Toxic Spikes / Gyro Ball
move 3: Spikes
move 4: Explosion
ability: Sturdy
item: Custap Berry
evs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe or 252 Atk
nature: Adamant / Brave
ivs: 0 HP / 0 Def / 0 SpD

Moves
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Rapid Spin has the utility of removing hazards on your side, which is very useful for other Pokemon weak to hazards such as Ho-Oh. Toxic Spikes is an entry hazard form that slowly wears down foes after two layers have been layed down. Gyro Ball lets Forretress beat Mega Diancie trying to bounce back hazards upon switch in, and has good power too combined with Forretress's slow Speed and the STAB boost. Spikes is another entry hazard which damages foes upon switch in which helps teammates beating them with more ease. Explosion is very powerful and the best move to use if Forretress is about to go down to an opposing attack.

Set Details
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Sturdy ensures Forretress can never be OHKOed as long as it hasn't taken any entry hazard damage. Custap Berry lets Forretress move first when it is lower than 25% of its health, which lets Forretress set up a last layer of Spikes, or use Explosion when it is about to faint. The current EVs maximize Forretress damage output with Explosion and is even more powerful with a Brave nature. No IVs are used in HP, Defense, and Special Defense, in order to bring Forretress down to 1 HP quicker, letting the Custap Berry activate. No Speed EVs should be used because a lower Speed stat powers up Gyro Ball.

Usage Tips
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Set up hazards depending on opposing teams. If it is a team built around bulky offense, setting up Spikes is the best option, but when it is a defensive team, Toxic Spikes is generally better. Watch out with setting up Toxic Spikes if the opposing team has a Poison-type, as it can just come in and remove the hazards. Don't just spam hazards if the opponent has a Defog or Rapid Spin user on their team, as they can just come in and remove the hazards and waste your turns. However, it can be useful against several Arceus-formes lacking Refresh. Forretress can be used as a lead to set up hazards early game, but it fears the Taunt users, so if there is a common Taunt user on the opposing team, switch in another teammate. Be careful against Ghost-types, they can come in into a Rapid Spin, as well as on an Explosion, which will make you faint after.

Team Options
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Mega Diancie is a good teammate in particular, as it beats the Fire-types Forretress fears, bounces back Taunt and can also beat Arceus-Poison. In return, Forretress can take Grass- and Steel-type attacks that threaten Mega Diancie and provide hazard support. Spinblockers such as Mega Gengar and Giratina are good teammates too, as they'll prevent the opponent from using Rapid Spin and remove the hazards you've set up. Pokemon that put pressure on the opponent such as Mega Gengar, Mega Salamence, Genesect, and Primal Groudon are good teammates because it prevents the opponent from using Rapid Spin or Defog. Taunt users that block Defog, such as Yveltal and Heatran are good teammates too. Pokemon that can beat the Magic Bounce users that trouble Forretress, such as Primal Groudon, are good partners too. Primal Groudon also can set up Stealth Rock and appreciates Toxic Spikes support from Forretress. Pokemon that appreciate Forretress's Rapid Spin support such as Ho-Oh make solid teammates too. Ho-Oh can also switch into Fire-type attacks for Forretress. Pokemon that appreciate the hazards Forretress sets up, such as Shaymin-Sky and Kangaskhan which can flinch opponents or KO an opponent earlier, make excellent partners as well.


Other Options
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Pain Split can be used for some recovery for Forretress, but it is not gonna take much special hits anyway. Volt Switch is a way to gain momentum for the team, but it lacks good power and coverage, so Forretress is better off not using it. Stealth Rock is another option Forretress can use, but this is set up better by Pokemon such as Primal Groudon or Deoxys-A. Counter is a damaging move which lets Forretress benefit from a great Defense stat, but isn't reliable as opponents can use Special Attacks and then it will be useless, and takes up an important moveslot too. Mental Herb is a final option to set up Spikes after a Taunt, but only lasts once and Leftovers's recovery is in more cases appreciated.


Checks & Counters
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**Magic Bounce users**: Magic Bounce users such as Mega Diancie and Mega Sableye can bounce back any hazard, leaving Forretress almost useless. The latter, Mega Sableye, also blocks Rapid Spin.

**Taunt users**: Taunt users such as Yveltal, Heatran, Deoxys-A and Deoxys-S prevent Forretress from getting up any entry hazards. Darkrai is another stop as it can use Dark Void to put Forretress to sleep and hit it after.

**Darkrai**: Darkrai can put Forretress to sleep and prevent it from setting up hazards, and proceed to set up with Nasty Plot. However, it cannot take Gyro Ball and Explosion well.
 
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Slash relexed nature with calm nature if running gyro ball.
Also, does forretress really need max spd? Its still not taking many special attacks anyway so you may as well invest in defense so forretress can do what it well even better.
 
Slash relexed nature with calm nature if running gyro ball.
Also, does forretress really need max spd? Its still not taking many special attacks anyway so you may as well invest in defense so forretress can do what it well even better.
I'll slash Sassy (Sassy raises SpD). SpD helps it at avoiding the 2hko from mixed giratina-o, and gives it more switchins overall.
 
Forretress is atrocious, it doesn't even do much vs. Deo-S since those can Taunt, set screens and switch out to one of the many things that set up on Forry. Put Mental Herb in Other Options to set up Toxic Spikes through Taunt (I know it's gimmicky but it's not really worse than other Forry sets) and Pain Split definitely deserves a slash for taking on ExtremeKiller better, I'd make it the first slash in move 4 and move Gyro Ball to moves. A shame it lost its ghost and dark resistances from Gen 5, that inhibits its ability to check a LOT of Pokemon.

"A bit" set-up bait is a massive understatement. Believe me I have tried my ass off getting this Pokemon to work in both XY and now in ORAS. It checks very little and still cannot spin on spinblockers to save its life, especially now that Ghostceus can blast it with Judgment. At least many teams lack a spinblocker, though vs. offense you'll have an awful time getting a spin off.

There are a lot of other nitpicks I have (Toxic Spikes are spammable even if "your opponent has a Defog user" so long the Defog user is grounded and susceptible to Poison), and I feel the spread should be physically defensive since Xerneas / Yveltal / most CM Arceus / Kyogre / Palkia anything that isn't a Defog Lati that attacks from the special side destroys this anyway. I don't want to waste your time if this isn't approved though, so I'll talk this over with other QC later.

Edit: good chance this will be approved, even though I personally dislike it. will give more feedback later
 
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Forretress is atrocious, it doesn't even do much vs. Deo-S since those can Taunt, set screens and switch out to one of the many things that set up on Forry. Put Mental Herb in Other Options to set up Toxic Spikes through Taunt (I know it's gimmicky but it's not really worse than other Forry sets) and Pain Split definitely deserves a slash for taking on ExtremeKiller better, I'd make it the first slash in move 4 and move Gyro Ball to moves. A shame it lost its ghost and dark resistances from Gen 5, that inhibits its ability to check a LOT of Pokemon.

"A bit" set-up bait is a massive understatement. Believe me I have tried my ass off getting this Pokemon to work in both XY and now in ORAS. It checks very little and still cannot spin on spinblockers to save its life, especially now that Ghostceus can blast it with Judgment. At least many teams lack a spinblocker, though vs. offense you'll have an awful time getting a spin off.

There are a lot of other nitpicks I have (Toxic Spikes are spammable even if "your opponent has a Defog user" so long the Defog user is grounded and susceptible to Poison), and I feel the spread should be physically defensive since Xerneas / Yveltal / most CM Arceus / Kyogre / Palkia anything that isn't a Defog Lati that attacks from the special side destroys this anyway. I don't want to waste your time if this isn't approved though, so I'll talk this over with other QC later.

Edit: good chance this will be approved, even though I personally dislike it. will give more feedback later
Edited everything except the 'Toxic Spikes' part because I feel like the most common defoggers (Giratina-O, Latios) are immune to Toxic Spikes / Spikes anyway and can freely come in as the main set doesn't run Stealth Rock. If I need to add it, then I will, of course.
 
tagging Edgar, i really do not like forry but he said he has a good set for it (he might be saving it for SPL so exercise patience)
 
Well for starters, I think Toxic Spikes should be used over Spikes as it is Forretress' over Ferrothorn and Klefki (aside of rapid spin of course). I'll post the set later as I think I lost it lol.
 

PROBLEMS

AHEAD OF HIS TIME
idk why this mon got approved its beyond ass in oras doesnt really have a niche which sets it appart from key beyond being able to deal with ekiller and obv access to tspikes but yeh its dead weight.

maybe as now custap has been released we can bring the old tspikes explosion lead back from bw2?
 
idk why this mon got approved its beyond ass in oras doesnt really have a niche which sets it appart from key beyond being able to deal with ekiller and obv access to tspikes but yeh its dead weight.

maybe as now custap has been released we can bring the old tspikes explosion lead back from bw2?
Yeah that's what I was thinking, I helped steel build a team with it for his last spl game where it showed pretty decent potential. I wouldn't use support so yeh something like this should work:

Forretress @ Custap Berry
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 Atk
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 HP / 0 Def / 0 SpD / 0 Spe
- Toxic Spikes
- Spikes
- Rapid Spin
- Explosion
 
Yeah that's what I was thinking, I helped steel build a team with it for his last spl game where it showed pretty decent potential. I wouldn't use support so yeh something like this should work:

Forretress @ Custap Berry
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 Atk
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 HP / 0 Def / 0 SpD / 0 Spe
- Toxic Spikes
- Spikes
- Rapid Spin
- Explosion
Made the set and updated Moves and Set Details to reflect the current set.
 
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shrang

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Maybe slash Gyro Ball in there somewhere? You threaten Mega Diancie, and might even be able to revenge a GeoXern if you're under 25%.
 

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I ended up building a half effort team in a minute and went on a ladder run with max attack Custap Forry. It also got up what it needed against Krauer shown here:[replay]ubers-208700820[/replay]
All of the ladder games were won for the most part, but even the "good" replays are pretty bad due to one sided hax in favor of me for the most part, they don't feature very well built teams (well, most of 'em don't), and I do miss out on using it against stall, a rather important match-up, and also my Arceus having no EVs and me not noticing :p (this also shows v krau only I do notice it).
Forretress @ Custap Berry
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 Atk
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Spikes
- Gyro Ball
- Explosion
- Rapid Spin
I know I am using spikes, but that can easily be replaced with Toxic Spikes although Forry does want the option setting up more given the chance and usually 2 layers of Tspikes is inferior to 1. I know this set is weird, but it sets hazards, spins, deals with Diancie, explodes to block Defog, hurts speedy leads with Gyro Ball. As far as the slashing goes, I have no idea. I feel like running double hazard is doable, but requires a very strong bounce check on both ends of the spectrum, or at least Diancie if not Sableye. This post is long for very little support or help with the set, but I figure it is better than nothing. QC, take this as you will.
 
I'm getting pretty confused right now with the set. The first person tells me to make this set, the other person tells me to do the set like this; whose set should I implement rn?
 
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I'm getting pretty confused right now with the set. The first person tells me to make this set, the order person tells me to do the set like this; whose set should I implement rn?
mine

gyro slash is iffy, you kinda need boom to prevent defog
 
I ran only Spikes on my Aero Forry team, getting 2 layers up with Forry is never a guarantee and one layer + dealing good damage with Explosion isn't really a failure. I used both Gyro (to pressure Lati@s and smack Diancie) and Explosion (Custap + Boom = no hazard removal). I'd slash Spikes and Toxic Spikes and have Gyro and Explosion by themselves. Hack thoughts on slashing

Edit your intro to reflect the Custap set as the only truly viable set. Also, redo your checks & counters section to reflect this (Fire moves no longer stop Forry from doing its job, Darkrai is a pain is the ass, etc).

Remove Earthquake, dual screens, Red Card and Overcoat from Other Options. Mental Herb is cute but you're almost forced to use Explosion the turn after screwing over the Taunt user or else you get Defogged on. Mental Herb Toxic Spikes Forry destroys the sample team though!

Remove the part about Rapid Spin being a "weak move," it's filler. Also, "Don't just spam hazards if the opponent has a Defog or Rapid Spin user on their team, as they can just come in and remove the hazards and waste your turns" isn't always good advice, poisoning a Defog Arceus can be really nice and you pressure the crap out of the Lati twins with Gyro anyway. Remember that Forry is usually used with a spinblocker, and that you have more hazards at your disposal than your opponent will have Defog so they cannot keep clocking Defog indefinitely...
  • Don't just spam hazards if the opponent has a Defog or Rapid Spin user on their team, as they can just come in and remove the hazards and waste your turns.
 
I ran only Spikes on my Aero Forry team, getting 2 layers up with Forry is never a guarantee and one layer + dealing good damage with Explosion isn't really a failure. I used both Gyro (to pressure Lati@s and smack Diancie) and Explosion (Custap + Boom = no hazard removal). I'd slash Spikes and Toxic Spikes and have Gyro and Explosion by themselves. Hack thoughts on slashing

Edit your intro to reflect the Custap set as the only truly viable set. Also, redo your checks & counters section to reflect this (Fire moves no longer stop Forry from doing its job, Darkrai is a pain is the ass, etc).

Remove Earthquake, dual screens, Red Card and Overcoat from Other Options. Mental Herb is cute but you're almost forced to use Explosion the turn after screwing over the Taunt user or else you get Defogged on. Mental Herb Toxic Spikes Forry destroys the sample team though!

Remove the part about Rapid Spin being a "weak move," it's filler. Also, "Don't just spam hazards if the opponent has a Defog or Rapid Spin user on their team, as they can just come in and remove the hazards and waste your turns" isn't always good advice, poisoning a Defog Arceus can be really nice and you pressure the crap out of the Lati twins with Gyro anyway. Remember that Forry is usually used with a spinblocker, and that you have more hazards at your disposal than your opponent will have Defog so they cannot keep clocking Defog indefinitely...
  • Don't just spam hazards if the opponent has a Defog or Rapid Spin user on their team, as they can just come in and remove the hazards and waste your turns.
I think I've edited it accordingly and also beefed up C&C.
 
I ran only Spikes on my Aero Forry team, getting 2 layers up with Forry is never a guarantee and one layer + dealing good damage with Explosion isn't really a failure. I used both Gyro (to pressure Lati@s and smack Diancie) and Explosion (Custap + Boom = no hazard removal). I'd slash Spikes and Toxic Spikes and have Gyro and Explosion by themselves. Hack thoughts on slashing

Edit your intro to reflect the Custap set as the only truly viable set. Also, redo your checks & counters section to reflect this (Fire moves no longer stop Forry from doing its job, Darkrai is a pain is the ass, etc).

Remove Earthquake, dual screens, Red Card and Overcoat from Other Options. Mental Herb is cute but you're almost forced to use Explosion the turn after screwing over the Taunt user or else you get Defogged on. Mental Herb Toxic Spikes Forry destroys the sample team though!

Remove the part about Rapid Spin being a "weak move," it's filler. Also, "Don't just spam hazards if the opponent has a Defog or Rapid Spin user on their team, as they can just come in and remove the hazards and waste your turns" isn't always good advice, poisoning a Defog Arceus can be really nice and you pressure the crap out of the Lati twins with Gyro anyway. Remember that Forry is usually used with a spinblocker, and that you have more hazards at your disposal than your opponent will have Defog so they cannot keep clocking Defog indefinitely...
  • Don't just spam hazards if the opponent has a Defog or Rapid Spin user on their team, as they can just come in and remove the hazards and waste your turns.
Idk I definitely like toxic spikes and I think in general they can have more impact depending on how much phazing you have on your team to spread them before the defog. It's riskier to run spikes out of a defog standpoint but having gyro is really cool vs Diancie though, though I wouldn't say it's so much better to gyro a latias compared to booming on it. My slashing would look like this:

name: Rapid Spin
move 1: Rapid Spin
move 2: Toxic Spikes / Gyro Ball
move 3: Spikes
move 4: Explosion
ability: Sturdy
item: Custap Berry
evs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe or 252 Atk
nature: Adamant / Brave
ivs: 0 HP / 0 Def / 0 SpD (0 Spe with Gyro)

I still think Gyro is highly niche of a move as you might as well boom if you get a window to attack.
 
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