Serious LGBTQ

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Sorry if I came off as rude because of the way I phrased my original post. I have several friends that are trans and even though they do their best to explain it to me there are still a lot of things I don't understand, I just wanted some different perspectives.
In cases like this I try to hold off on being rude back, as I understand most people are ignorant on this subject, and its better to try to make friends rather then enemies.

I only get ticked off if there is usually an agenda behind the ignorance, or they are completely unwilling to be not assholes, making their bigoted views un-falsifiable.

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Minority Suspect said:
How can people be so sure that they feel like a girl when it is impossible to even know how a girl feels unless you are one?

Does this mean that when boys think they feel like girls they just relate to the generalizations our culture places on females?

How can you be certain that all girls feel similar enough such that you can generalize what it feels like to be a girl when you can't even truly know what it feels like to be any person other than yourself?
For people who want to understand more about gender, gender dysphoria and in general trans woman issues, I'd recommend Julia Serano - Whipping Girl, probably the most important and best-written book on the subject I've read so far (if anyone has read that as well as a book they thought was better, I'd be very curious to read that book as well).

Julia Serano herself described feeling like a woman as:
All of the words available in the English language completely fail to accurately capture or convey my personal understanding of these events. For example, if I were to say that I ‘saw’ myself as female, or ‘knew’ myself to be a girl, I would be denying the fact that I was consciously aware of my physical maleness at all times. And saying that I ‘wished’ or ‘wanted’ to be a girl erases how much being female made sense to me, how it felt right on the deepest, most profound level of my being. I could say that I ‘felt’ like a girl, but that would give the false impression that I knew how other girls (and other boys) felt. And if I were to say that I was ‘supposed to be’ a girl or that I ‘should have been born’ female, it would imply that I had some sort of cosmic insight into the grand scheme of the universe, which I most certainly did not.

Perhaps the best way to describe how my subconscious sex feels to me is to say that it seems as if, on some level, my brain expects my body to be female.
So yeah, it's pretty much impossible to accurately define it. From anecdotal evidence and from my own experiences, starting to identify as the gender associated with the opposite sex usually (except for people who identified as such since their childhood, or people who instantly realised after finding out the truth about transitioning) comes through a series of "trial and error".

Like, it's always been there, but not knowing about the real possibility of transitioning (sucks that shows / films in the past, that even lived off of ridiculing transsexualism, only mentioned breast implants and an inaccurate portrayal of SRS) kept and still continues to keep a lot of trans people not to even dare to think of possibly being associated with a group of "freaks" how they've seen trans women being misportrayed as for decades (while trans men were virtually never mentioned / never heard of), so the gender dysphoria is extremely "quiet" through this subconscious repression. People simply write off the "signs" as unimportant, and since the signs are usually very far apart from each other in time, and the only possible answer that unifies them is thought of as literally impossible, some people might not realise until their 40s-50s, or perhaps never realise, that they are trans.

But when one finds out about antiandrogens' and estradiol's effects, respectively testosterone's effects in the case of trans men, and seeing hormone therapy timeline images, it simply opens up a whole new picture, a possibility they thought was never going to exist. Then starts all the research for all trans-related information. But the excitement is not for long, for fear, shame, guilt, depression and anxiety strike. So a lot of people try to make compromises, only thinking of crossdressing in secret, or trying to experiment by seeing how publicly identifying online as genderqueer/genderfluid/etc. feels like, since they'd rather find only looking more androgynous or having to lead a double life as the truth, instead of having to transition.

For some people, crossdressing might be the only thing they actually wanted, or identifying as non-binary might be the gender they really actually are. But for transsexual people, it becomes quickly apparent that female pronouns feel so much infinitely more "right" (there's no other way to describe this) than male ones (or vice versa for trans men). That's probably the most important step in the series of "trial and error" in starting to consciously identify as the gender associated with the opposite sex. Then that feeling just deepens. There's no turning back from that, the cat is out of the box and it never goes back in, and that's when gender dysphoria (which until then was mostly silent) truly starts to make one's life really miserable (sadly often to the point of suicide) until they manage to transition.

As for non-binary people aka genderqueer/genderfluid/bigender/androgynous/agender/etc. folks, I don't know accurately enough how they feel (although I did go through a short "maybe I'm just genderfluid" phase) since I haven't talked with many of them / haven't read way too many of their posts. Likewise, there probably are differences regarding trans men's experiences too when it comes to starting to identify / how they identify (e.g. some already being tomboys for ages/decades, requiring less experimentation after first starting to question their gender, etc.)

And this post got way too long, but trans-related topics are just extremely broad and problematic to just very succinctly talk about them.
 
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Alright. Figured this beat coming out to Smogon on #capasb.

So...after a long time in the closet, I realized I'm trans shortly after Thanksgiving of last year.

I've mostly kept my activities on that to my Reddit account, although you might have noticed a few clues here and there here on Smogon (most recently, using the female gender option instead of "unspecified").

So...I guess I'll just reply to Squarewalker's post as a starting point for my story?

For people who want to understand more about gender, gender dysphoria and in general trans woman issues, I'd recommend Julia Serano - Whipping Girl, probably the most important and best-written book on the subject I've read so far (if anyone has read that as well as a book they thought was better, I'd be very curious to read that book as well).
I'm a short way into Whipping Girl myself--it's definitely been a good read so far.

So yeah, it's pretty much impossible to accurately define it. From anecdotal evidence and from my own experiences, starting to identify as the gender associated with the opposite sex usually (except for people who identified as such since their childhood, or people who instantly realised after finding out the truth about transitioning) comes through a series of "trial and error".

Like, it's always been there, but not knowing about the real possibility of transitioning (sucks that shows / films in the past, that even lived off of ridiculing transsexualism, only mentioned breast implants and an inaccurate portrayal of SRS) kept and still continues to keep a lot of trans people not to even dare to think of possibly being associated with a group of "freaks" how they've seen trans women being misportrayed as for decades (while trans men were virtually never mentioned / never heard of), so the gender dysphoria is extremely "quiet" through this subconscious repression. People simply write off the "signs" as unimportant, and since the signs are usually very far apart from each other in time, and the only possible answer that unifies them is thought of as literally impossible, some people might not realise until their 40s-50s, or perhaps never realise, that they are trans.
Indeed--although I think I might have privately started the trial and error before truly understanding the capabilities of hormones.

At first I thought that I would be rewarded with eternal bliss in heaven if I just kept it in and followed the Church's doctrines (yay conservative Catholic grade school!) during this life. Then my faith died, and I learned and I spent the next few years without much real permanent purpose or sense of inherent self-worthiness. During that time I came up with plenty of creative reasons to shame myself for thinking about "wouldn't it be nice to be a girl doing whatever it is I'm doing/want to do," particularly if it involved standing up for myself and feeling powerful/leading people as a woman rather than maintaining my "duty" to be an extremely passive guy. I also shamed myself for repeatedly vicariously projecting some of my own desires onto girls I knew.

Something to note is that (like many, many other closeted trans women) with no other real means to express my desire for transition, I ended up fetishizing having sex as a woman (or even just transforming from male into female)--to the point of trying to actively figure out what sex as a woman felt like (then simulate it by stimulating the right parts and imagining, because hooray for analogous structures).

I sort of figured it out...but I also realized that I liked feeling female independent of my sexual activity. I rationalized it as something I could look into temporarily when I was older.

I had a number of other independent revelations after that before I actually really came out to myself, but most importantly: during Thanksgiving break last year I finally managed to combine tucking in my private parts, wearing a camisole over (girl's briefs? boyshorts? panties? I have no idea what kind of underwear it was), and filling in the hips and breasts with socks--all to, in a non-sexual environment, simulate the overall feeling of an actual female body. And...it felt strangely right to have a body like that. Sleeping in it felt right. Errands with a heavy coat covering it all felt right. Going to get some hot tea to help wake up in the morning, while wearing a light jacket with small sock boobs underneath, felt right--and that was coming from someone who looked into social anxiety support groups earlier that year.

I ended up finally deciding to go onto the transgender community subreddits to find information shortly after first putting that together, and stumbled upon asktg.

But when one finds out about antiandrogens' and estradiol's effects, respectively testosterone's effects in the case of trans men, and seeing hormone therapy timeline images, it simply opens up a whole new picture, a possibility they thought was never going to exist. Then starts all the research for all trans-related information. But the excitement is not for long, for fear, shame, guilt, depression and anxiety strike. So a lot of people try to make compromises, only thinking of crossdressing in secret, or trying to experiment by seeing how publicly identifying online as genderqueer/genderfluid/etc. feels like, since they'd rather find only looking more androgynous or having to lead a double life as the truth, instead of having to transition.
I may have learned about the effects on Wikipedia while thinking that I just had a fetish. I also learned about how sex reassignment surgery worked. It took me a while to actually look into it seriously--again, probably because the fetish was easier to accept than the reality.

Going to /r/asktransgender pretty much opened the floodgates to awakening/coming out to myself, as more and more stories echoed my own. Most importantly, I learned no, these feelings stay with you for your whole life, many of your concerns are completely normal, you're at a great age to begin transition, and the longer you wait the harder it gets. Do not compromise on this.

While I had plenty of doubts/rationalizations to mull over, I eventually managed to process most of them.

I ended up coming out to my slightly younger sister early in December (while I was still heavily questioning), then a counselor at the counseling center, then my mom, then (after much paternal badgering) my dad. My sister was totally on board with it, my mom was cautious but ultimately on board with it, and my dad...kind of went into denial/invalidation mode, but is cautiously supportive (though I suspect he still wants it to be anything else...).

Thankfully my college is rather progressive, and I'm in probably the most progressive major there--so far, all the people I've come out to there have been supportive.

For some people, crossdressing might be the only thing they actually wanted, or identifying as non-binary might be the gender they really actually are. But for transsexual people, it becomes quickly apparent that female pronouns feel so much infinitely more "right" (there's no other way to describe this) than male ones (or vice versa for trans men). That's probably the most important step in the series of "trial and error" in starting to consciously identify as the gender associated with the opposite sex. Then that feeling just deepens. There's no turning back from that, the cat is out of the box and it never goes back in, and that's when gender dysphoria (which until then was mostly silent) truly starts to make one's life really miserable (sadly often to the point of suicide) until they manage to transition.
I can attest to this--I'm getting increasingly annoyed at using my birth name over my girl name on things, I've generally resolved my doubts, and I'm increasingly feeling like many effeminate childhood tendencies I suppressed are coming to the forefront again (and I love it). I dislike being gendered male and like being gendered female.

It's weird, though, because I've found that I've had a really weird mixture of both sometimes feeling really really good about myself for knowing who I am and really really frustrated/miserable about having a male body.

The positive side has been enough to make me significantly more productive than I was last semester so far--and while some of the academic success is just better habits, fewer non-transition outside distractions (I'm not starting off the semester thoroughly entangled in CAPASB affairs, for example), less stressful classes, better scheduling (I don't have stressful meetings before my longest class periods), and better work techniques...I have to admit, I really feel like my immediate happiness is worth fighting for. I actually want to take control of my life now.

Also, I'm going to have my first meeting with someone capable of prescribing hormones in April. The wait is really annoying, so I'm...likely to come out socially in the meantime. Again, yay for going to an accepting college!

And this post got way too long, but trans-related topics are just extremely broad and problematic to just very succinctly talk about them.
Indeed.
 
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I'm increasingly feeling like many effeminate childhood tendencies I suppressed are coming to the forefront again (and I love it).
Oh, this, yeah. This surprised me.

Like I have faint memories of being effeminate as a kid and being bullied over it, and as a result restaining any even subtle feminine behavior like fucking sticking your pinky out when drinking and other trivial things.

I think I was about 2 months into the hormones and I noticed that I was doing the stereotypical "limp wrist" thing, I wasn't even aware I was doing it until I examined by hand gestures one day. I was just like "what the hell are my hands doing?" Then came the whole hand on the chest / neck area when feeling emotional, the pinky thing came back, and just recently I noticed I do this 'thing' with my hands when I will put them out perpendicular to my body when I am walking up stairs, and that a lot of other women do this as well, and probably a lot of other even smaller things I just haven't noticed.

None of this was conscious, I only realized after it started happening. I'm becoming a freaking stereotype. :o

That said, not everything like that has changed, much to my despair, I walk like I'm marching around like I was taught in Boy Scouts and my handwriting is still atrocious: things which people actually notice. No automatic feminine voice either, I fall back to my old deep voice the second I stop concentrating on it.
 
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Congrats on coming out, Tortferngatr.

And yeah, one of the things that was a red flag for me too was when after starting to question my gender, I started crossdressing in average female clothes so much that it normalized itself to the point of not looking at it in a sexual way but it still felt just 'right'.

And yeah, definitely r/asktransgender was what really started making me question myself too with it revealing that lesbian trans women exist too, reading many similar stories to mine, and seeing a lot of questions intended for questioning folks like "If you could press a button right now that permanently turned you into the opposite sex without any downsides e.g. without people abandoning/discriminating against you, would you press it?" and "If you lived alone on an island for the rest of your life, would you still want to live as the opposite sex?", etc. and it was where I first heard about the effects of hormones, accurate details of SRS, etc.

And yeah until one manages to transition, it's this double-edged sword of happiness / bittersweet happiness about having found out who you really are and being able to attempt to live out previous regrets, and the other side of the sword of course being gender dysphoria (or how I prefer to refer to it since reading Whipping Girl, with one of Julia Serano's coined terms, gender dissonance, since it's not one's gender itself that is the cause of feeling horribly miserable, but the dissonance between it and one's physical body and the way most people unfortunately react to it) and in general anxiety.
 
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Oh, hey, I posted that on /r/Pokemon! Not my art (obviously, I can't art, that'd be silly), but I love seeing this spreading around, it's so fucking awesome. Anyway, I'm here aren't I? Might as well introduce myself :3

The name's Allison, I am MtF, pre-everything, a frying pansexual, 16 Years old, live in Massachusetts, and am a super boring person to hang out with (unless you know a great deal about the Pokemon TCG, because that's literally my life right now).

First realized I was trans when I was 8 years old when I noticed all of my dreams were in a female's perspective, but I didn't want to tell anyone because they'd think I was crazy and that I was the only one, so I bottled it up... which ended up being a very bad idea in the long run. I kinda let it slide until I was 11, when I entered my 4 year long denial period where I told myself life was all fine and dandy. Early 2014; I hit a road block, and the feeling of hating my body and just being male in general came back. I'd constantly be thinking about possible ways I could be female, as I still thought I was the only one who thought like this and, like an idiot, didn't do research. The Highschool I was going to didn't help, so pair up my dysphoria with my abusive Biology teacher and you have a state of being suicidal! Yaaaay! So, came close to attempting, caught by parents, hospitalized for 1.5 months (Next week is the 1 year anniversary of that hospitalization). My first hospitalization was a bit like a trance, I kinda just forgot I existed. When I got back, I was failing all of my classes and my parents were on my ass about it, my Bio teacher continued to threaten me, my dysphoria kept getting worse, so in May I attempted again. Another 1.5 months, but this time was different. Also being hospitalized was Ryan; a trans guy my age in there for the same thing. I was speechless; I just learned that there was a word for being trans, and I had just met someone my age who was trans as well. I get discharged and deal with the last few weeks of school, only failing German. I did nothing that summer, all I did was sit in my room and think about all of the possibilities I have now with this new knowledge. September rolls around and I start having anxiety attacks about starting school again, but a week before school starts; I get a call from a charter school I applied for in my freshman year saying I've been accepted! Sadly, their school started a week early, so the next morning was now the first day. I walk into my first class the next morning and guess who sits down next to me; Ryan. We've been friends for a while now knowing that we actually go to the same school, even though legally he shouldn't even look at me because of the hospitalization stuff (we still actively make fun of eachother for accidentally blowing up a box of stress balls in the hospital, long story). 28th of November (My dog's birthday, and 10 days after my 16th birthday), I accidentally let slip that I'm trans on reddit. I expected horrible reactions, but instead got a decent amount of upvotes, 2 months of gold, PMs from people who would become my best friends, and a PM from someone who would eventually become my current girlfriend. This gave me the motivation to come out to my parents, which I did on December 19th. Some shit has happened between now and then, but I'm doing alright. My parents are alright, and I should be having my first appointment to discuss HRT within the next few weeks.

Holy fuck that was long x~x. Well, I'm active over on /r/MtF, so whoop.
 
astroboy

You might be asexual or aromantic. Sexuality is complicated and it's even messier when trying to prove a negative. Asexuality is more of a question of "am I sufficiently different from the normal in a way that would indicate asexuality" than "am I asexual?" So you're really disproving a null hypothesis more than anything. Since you obviously can't feel what normal is like for anyone but you, it's just worth bearing in mind for a while as you think it over. If you eventually conclude that your experiences with sexuality are sufficiently different from the average person's as to warrant not being classified as bisexual, that might be the point where it's worth coming to a conclusion. My one irl asexual friend went through something similar, though, so it's not unheard of.

To give you a somewhat better answer: I don't know much about aromanticism, but if you can feel sexual attraction but just don't have any desire to commit to anyone at all that might be something to look into. I guess the next best question I have is if you've ever had a crush on anyone? Asexual romantics can, and often do, crush on someone and really want to spend time with/date them. But the crush virtually never involves thoughts of sex. So if you've had one or more of those crushes (depends on age), you very well might be a biromantic asexual. But to complicate things, aromantic asexuals can also have something like a crush but it's mostly just related to platonic friendship.

So, in a brief flowchart:

1) Had crush, had sexual desire behind it: probably bisexual
2) Had crush with romantic, but no sexual, desire: probably biromantic asexual
3) Had crush with purely physical elements, no desire for romance: probably aromantic bisexual (it's a thing)
4) Never had a crush/never had a crush that involved romantic or sexual desire: probably aromantic asexual

Note the use of "probably." I don't, and can't, know how either you or the average person feels about sex or romance. So really if you think you might be asexual you've just started a long questioning period that will possibly never definitively end. But that's the best starting point I can give you on that. Unfortunately I can't help with the non-binary stuff. But someone in this thread probably can, maybe...
 
I wish I could say I can help with non-binary, but I can't, I'm binary myself: being a female all the time mentally. :V

/r/genderqueer might be helpful. If you say you are Genderqueer / Non-Binary, the usually distinction I most often see is Gender Fluid, like the vast majority of the time, so if anything you're probably that. Agender and Bi-gender show up, but they are for much more specific things, anything else is crazy rare. Sometimes Third-Gender shows up, but usually for people in Eastern cultures.
 
WHOA I'm really happy about all the new faces here! Hello again and good luck with everything Tortferngatr ! That evolution line is beautiful :D

just recently I noticed I do this 'thing' with my hands when I will put them out perpendicular to my body when I am walking up stairs

FUCK YES THIS THING.

Also people that claim to be open minded yet transform into bully zealots on their precious gender essentialism are the worst kind of assholes. ♥♥♥
 
HRT was planned to start for me in 3 weeks... Children's Hospital that would have been supplying me cut me off until at least September because I'm a minor... Found out on Wednesday, and I've been super depressed about it... I dunno, just want to get this out on all the public places I can to see if talking obout it'll make me feel better ;_;
 
CaptButterToast I'd say maybe you should try to get a therapist or something to write you a letter for one, but September is what 6 months away? A best doing that would only save you a few weeks in order to get, as it usually takes 4 or so months for them to verify you, and a month to get an endo, the entire process took almost 8 months for me personally, but my situation was different. So it might be better to wait it out if you are sure they was going to give it to you.

That said, you might want to find a therapist anyway, as the next few months are going to be rocky. I know I got super agitated and paranoid when I was waiting for the hormones.

Also, keep this in mind: you are really early in this, seriously if you start at 18 or something, you are already earlier than the vast majority of transwomen in starting hormones. So don't feel like you are missing out or something.
 
CaptButterToastAlso, keep this in mind: you are really early in this, seriously if you start at 18 or something, you are already earlier than the vast majority of transwomen in starting hormones. So don't feel like you are missing out or something.
It's not that I'm worried that any sort of delay in time will cause my body to become super duper masculine or something (the near-suicidal me the night after hearing this would argue otherwise, but I've rationalized since then), infact I was quite the late bloomer when it comes to puberty. What I'm worried about is my mental stability. In the past 4 months, I've basically planned out generally my entire life up to and a bit past my 18th birthday 2 years from now just out of pure excitement based around the fact that I'd be starting within the February-April 2015 range. Having that ripped away out of the blue really hurt, and I honestly don't know where to go from here.


How can people be so sure that they feel like a girl when it is impossible to even know how a girl feels unless you are one?

Does this mean that when boys think they feel like girls they just relate to the generalizations our culture places on females?

How can you be certain that all girls feel similar enough such that you can generalize what it feels like to be a girl when you can't even truly know what it feels like to be any person other than yourself?
Trying to explain why someone feels that they are a certain gender is like trying to explain the concept of color to someone who is completely blind; it just doesn't work within the limits of our current languages.
 
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I have BIG PROBLEMS with a one of the scenarios in this comic as the author (ironically, I suppose) relies on stereotypes about how gay men view womens' bodies. I'm not sure where the "gay men have personal space issues with women" stereotype comes from, but it became really popular a couple of years ago after Isaac Mizrahi grabbed Scarlett Johansson's breast at some event show. I have no doubt that this happens, and I think there have been a few other high-profile examples, but it's slightly offensive to suggest that "gay men feel it's OK to touch or grope women". Even if it said "some gay men feel it's OK to touch or grope women", I'd be fine with it. The problem is that the wording of the comic invites the reader to infer that the problem of misanthropy/bigotry (it's not just misogyny, nor is it just misandry) is at least largely caused by gay men as they are the only sexual minority group singled out as displaying misogynistic behavior in the comic. I don't disagree with the idea that we have to be more thoughtful about interactions with other sexual minorities.
Cheers!
 
I think I see what you mean now that you mention it, although I'd figured the message of that particular scenario was "sexual harassment does not hinge on the abusers' sexual orientation." I personally know people in my local LGBT circles with this problem, and from men that have used that exact same justification. I would certainly not take a lazy attitude towards spreading such a ludicrous stereotype about gay men being inclined to this stuff, but the attitudes and rationalizations that support abuse still should be scrutinized. The comic also explicitly called out cis women for transmisogyny in "safe" spaces, which is also quite a pragmatically valid scenario imo. I also want to give credit for the comic not explicitly gendering characters in many instances, which may or may not change your perspective on the comic's problems.
 
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ok so i thought about this a lot and i was wondering if anyone else has ever felt this

so ive always considered myself to be kind of on the border of gay and asexual, but ive never been sure whether or not to identify with one or another. i feel sexual attraction, but pretty much exclusively to stuff thats intended to make you feel turned on. like, with porn and stuff. but irl, ive never felt sexually attracted to people ive been romantically attracted to. does that make sense?
 

Myzozoa

to find better ways to say what nobody says
is a Top Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Past WCoP Champion
I also want to give credit for the comic not explicitly gendering characters in many instances, which may or may not change your perspective on the comic's problems.

i don't understand what you mean by 'explicitly gendering' characters, so im not really sure why that would change my perspective. I had not picked up on this, and I am still confused after reading it again. Do you mean that some characters do not 'look' within the binary visual expressions of gender? I'm only saying this because the artist does refer to 'gay men', 'women of color', etc, which is explicit gender ascription to me at least. I don't get why it would be a 'bad thing' tho, to explicitly gender ones' characters, especially if they're non-binary.


I think it's never inappropriate to call out phenomena that make collaboration between marginalized people dangerous. I like that the comic calls attention to the white male privilege dynamics that too often characterize queer organizing spaces. Further, I do not think the comic only singled out gay men as the source of male privilege in these spaces, indeed, the comic points out how femme bodies are always being called into question and/or mis-recognized in a variety of settings (i.e, mainstream queer/androgynous look has floated towards masculine looks, and transphobia as an exhibition in internalization of the male gaze, poc's bodies being available for access by white men, queer people not trusting the sexual claims of femme bodies, or demanding ownership of their bodies). Privilege is so vicious because it tends to lead to a delusion of solidarity, during which, queer white/masculine/rich bodies imagine themselves as sharing the experience of being queer with queer poc/women/poor bodies, without attending in any meaningful way to the differences that divide people internal to these communities. So yeah, there is nothing wrong with singling out specific male privilege trends especially when they involve racism. I actually read it as singling out specifically rich and white and gay men who feel they can access poc's bodies, since that has been a very high profile thing especially in contemporary 'popular culture' discourses, though it exists in 'all the other discourses' with less of a high profile.
 
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An example of a non-gendered character in fiction that kinda just roles with it is BMO, who depending on the episode is seen as either a boy or girl, doing more masculine or feminine activities and its never like made a deal of. BMO is of course a robot, but they are kind of have a more 'human' personality than most other robots, even in the show.

Perhaps they are talking something like that?
 
Yes, I meant that several characters (like the fratty "bro") were not actually given genders and it's left up in the air like Princess' example or like the Pyro from TF2(lmao), nothing more. It may or may not have been the artist's intent, but I personally felt it reminded me to question my own assumptions about gender in a positive way, and in one that I feel is pragmatic and actually beneficial to queer people...

https://www.facebook.com/NyannersVA/posts/865380106856823 Here's your daily dose of queerphobia, people voting for animal charities because they don't want money to go towards LGBTQ groups...
 
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https://www.facebook.com/NyannersVA/posts/865380106856823 Here's your daily dose of queerphobia, people voting for animal charities because they don't want money to go towards LGBTQ groups...
Did these people not notice that they could vote for multiple options...???

Anyway, I think this might be too specific to gender minority concerns for the atheism/agnosticism thread, and while I don't think I'll reach the people I might want to reach here, it doesn't seem appropriate to make a new thread on it, either. So here it is.

One thing that makes me still consider myself antitheist despite the terrible representation it gets with respect to social issues is the bizarre attitude that adherents of certain major religions have toward gender minorities right now. It's not just the explicit wingnut bigotry that's the problem. When seminaries try to cover subjects like psychological counselling, there still seems to be this lingering desire to treat anything that's not cisgender heterosexual as a mental illness... or at least get away with as much as they can toward that end without explicitly using mental illness terminology. Someone I know is writing about a reading about homosexual men from 1991. It might be sufficient just to leave the rest to your imagination, but from what I could tell from the reading, man is it vile. I know that there have been "therapy camps" and such and it's not quite as extreme as what I've heard about those, but really is there any excuse in the present for viewing homosexuality as in any way needing to be "cured"?

To be fair, around where I live there are plenty of churches that at least claim to be LGBTQ safe. At least, they have those stickers... It's just that there still seems to be this persistent tendency to want to tiptoe around the issue, saying that homosexuality is "a sin" but somehow they "accept" everyone. The consequence of making such statements is that if they want "sin" to have any relevance to their morality, they have to regard gender minorities as having some kind of illness that needs to be "cured". It's unfortunate that this nonsense hasn't gone the same way as interracial marriage and... wearing multiple fabrics...
 

About the charities, yeah, the thing is these people *explicitly did not want places like the Trevor Project to receive funding* because they're an LGBTQ group. Her fanbase is full of channers and the whole ordeal of "growing up into a socially conscious person" is becoming, well... an ordeal because of that. But the kicker is when people accusing you of slacktivism get pissy when you start actually donating to charities. :p

I know of one church in my area that actually welcomes openly LGBTQ members. The pastor is a woman who left her church and family to support her lesbian daughter. She came to our school to speak with our GSA club and also provide scripture and critical analysis condemning anti-queer bigotry, and it was pretty great. I know of many religious people here that support intersectionality to some degree, thankfully.
 
So...update.

You know how I said I thought I wouldn't be able to see anyone to start hormones until April?

It turned out that thanks to a wait list opening, I had my first meeting on March 9.

My blood work was taken 3 weeks later, and now I just have to finish banking sperm before starting hormones. Yay, almost there!

EDIT: aaaand now that I'm done banking sperm, the next available appointment was on May 11th. I'm very, very, very vaguely hoping for another waitlist appointment to open up, but I'm not holding my breath.

..meh, time to be out socially most of the time.
 
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Folks, I have some questions that I am intrigued about.

"Perhaps the best way to describe how my subconscious sex feels to me is to say that it seems as if, on some level, my brain expects my body to be female." quoted from Julia Serano - Whipping Girl, posted by Squarewalker

Would this mean that the mind has gender based thought processes too?
I have a question as to why do we separate or classify a thought as male or female, Can a female not have a male's thought of going to a football game? Can a male not have a female's thought of going to a chick flick? Imo all this classification is unnecessary. We are all humans and we should live the way we like.

I feel that folks with Authority, who want to control other people's actions, want to classify people so it is easier for them to lead them. For example: A policy maker / Governor / Leader would know how to please their community if they knew what motivates their people. Like giving free and secured cab service for late night shifts? I don't think I would give any importance to the benefit. But I know that my mom does.

I would appreciate if someone would clear my questions as to why we need to identify ourselves? Why do we need to justify ourselves? If you want to wear a skirt, wear it for all its worth. Coz its YOLO man! You may / may not get another life, why do you want to live in a classification? Just live like you are! Unique and Awesome. You don't need to be perfect, you don't need to be the best. What is wrong with being the worst football player? or the worst computer programmer? I have a ton of questions btw, lol. So if some kind soul would like to shed some light on these, I would very much appreciate it.

Cheers folks!
 
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Myzozoa

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Folks, I have some questions that I am intrigued about.

"Perhaps the best way to describe how my subconscious sex feels to me is to say that it seems as if, on some level, my brain expects my body to be female." quoted from Julia Serano - Whipping Girl, posted by Squarewalker

Would this mean that the mind has gender based thought processes too?
I have a question as to why do we separate or classify a thought as male or female, Can a female not have a male's thought of going to a football game? Can a male not have a female's thought of going to a chick flick? Imo all this classification is unnecessary. We are all humans and we should live the way we like.
I don't think Serano's comments have anything to do with gender based thought processes, so much as the feeling of dysphoria that accompanies a particular experience of embodiment (though I could be wrong). No one can have another person's thoughts, 'we' are not 'all human' any more or less than 'we' are all profoundly different from one another. The classification can be necessary in order to appeal for different distributions of resources and logics of distribution. It is actually on the basis of the visibility of a classification that marginalized subject positions are brought into existence: for how does one know that they are in fact a white person or a woman until they learn the concepts of 'white' or 'woman'. As I've said in this thread 'it may be straight people that are the minority' (kate bornstein's whole thing), because the glitter bomb is for real: I want people to be queer, and hetero-allies into queers is as easy as white people into POCs, same shit. So actually it doesn't matter if cis straight people are the majority because it's not gonna last. Sooner or later even people who only do what is now thought of as heterosexual sex acts will be calling themselves queer or w.e.
I feel that folks with Authority, who want to control other people's actions, want to classify people so it is easier for them to lead them. For example: A policy maker / Governor / Leader would know how to please their community if they knew what motivates their people. Like giving free and secured cab service for late night shifts? I don't think I would give any importance to the benefit. But I know that my mom does.
Yah, 'authority' is always doing fucked up shit and it's hardly a leap from a critique of nationalism (in which citizenship identities are disseminated through Ideological State Apparatuses) to a critique of identity politics, especially mainstream 'LGBTQ' politics. But like I said people need a way of finding each other even if it also makes them easier to be shepherded along by money and 'power'. I'm sorry, love of that kind (the kind where you don't have to speak) just doesn't exist in this cruel fucked up world, and sometimes it's embarrassing and people will say and do things that will scare and shame you, but if you want to take the risk and live then you have to make a little noise cause the crew is saying something. You can't just be silent about who you are and what you do, unless you don't think it matters, and thats what the state really wants you to feel: small and unimportant; like you don't matter. But who you are what you do does matter, especially to the people around you and there has to be some 'terms' through which a meaning generating connection takes place.
I would appreciate if someone would clear my questions as to why we need to identify ourselves? Why do we need to justify ourselves? If you want to wear a skirt, wear it for all its worth. Coz its YOLO man! You may / may not get another life, why do you want to live in a classification? Just live like you are! Unique and Awesome. You don't need to be perfect, you don't need to be the best. What is wrong with being the worst football player? or the worst computer programmer? I have a ton of questions btw, lol. So if some kind soul would like to shed some light on these, I would very much appreciate it.

Cheers folks!
I don't think anyone in this thread would claim that anyone needs to identify themselves, at least not to anyone else. "Why do we need to justify ourselves?" is not a question: it is the nature of justification that we require it, to ask why something must be justified is to misuse the word 'justify' or to appear to not understand what that word means (to misuse a word is equivocal to not knowing its meaning). Justification refers to the giving of reasons, the answering of 'why' and 'how'.

It may be that only on the basis of a classification that I can live or be safe, and the example given here is of the asylum seeker who flees from oppression in their home state and needs to be classified in a certain way so that they can live safely in a different place (for example as fleeing from persecution as a member of particular social group: such as a religious sect or a gay person, w.e). More broadly, I hope this post has pointed to ways in which classifications, far from being 'the truth' or the 'authentic identity' of the bodies tied to them, can rather be tools through which certain modes of being can be made accessible. Though I rather sympathize with your judgement that classifications are mainly ways for states to legitimate the systematic murder of certain populations, I would attribute this to the entrenchment of transnational colonialism rather than as endemic to identity politics itself, though they emerged at the same time so who can say? Certainly these two attitudes towards identity politics (as a means to social control and as a means to bring subjects into existence, which is to fold them into narratives of living that were previously disavowed) are, in relation to one another, like the faces of the same coin. And in much the same way that a coin flip is supposed to be an indeterminate event, discourses of identity politics do not always play out the same way each time and the result is hardly known ahead of time (i could be accused of being naive about this tho).

I hope that my response has made you feel less sure and more ambivalent about identification and identity politics rather than more certain about what it involves, who and what it serves, etc.
 
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