ORAS Ubers The Undying Phoenix

[Firebird Maniac]

Importable

Ho-Oh @ Choice Band
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 248 HP / 192 Atk / 52 SpD / 16 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Brave Bird
- Sacred Fire
- Earthquake
- Sleep Talk

Groudon @ Red Orb
Ability: Drought
EVs: 248 HP / 52 Def / 208 SpD
Relaxed Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Lava Plume
- Roar

Latias @ Soul Dew
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 212 HP / 120 SpA / 176 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Defog
- Roost
- Draco Meteor
- Psyshock

Salamence @ Salamencite
Ability: Intimidate
Happiness: 0
EVs: 248 HP / 136 Def / 124 Spe
Impish Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Frustration
- Roost
- Refresh

Klefki @ Leftovers
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Thunder Wave
- Toxic
- Play Rough
- Reflect

Arceus @ Spooky Plate
Ability: Multitype
EVs: 248 HP / 8 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Judgment
- Calm Mind
- Will-O-Wisp
- Recover

Team Details

Ho-Oh @ Choice Band
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 248 HP / 192 Atk / 52 SpD / 16 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Brave Bird
- Sacred Fire
- Earthquake
- Sleep Talk

Ho-Oh is a premium threat in Ubers. It's also a bird on fire which makes it one of my favorites. I have to resist the urge to splash it on any random team. Anyway, this is a fairly standard bulky CB Ho-Oh. 248/52 special bulk is the magic number to check GeoXern; 16 EVs in Spe to outspeed max speed Diancie, so Ho-Oh can OHKO it with EQ should it dare to mega evolve without Protect. Sleep Talk allows Ho-Oh to checkmate Darkrai that overstays its welcome. The beauty of this set is that everything works in sync -- from item, to moves, to ability, to stats -- that makes it almost perfect at what it does.

Groudon-Primal @ Red Orb
Ability: Desolate Land
EVs: 248 HP / 52 Def / 208 SpD
Relaxed Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Lava Plume
- Roar

The most splashable Ubers Pokemon (ever?). Primal Groudon compresses so many roles into itself that it's hard to pass up. Stealth Rock is a must on every team, and PDon is a good user thanks to bulk and forced switch outs. Earthquake is a reliable physical STAB for the defensive set, while Lava Plume is the sun powered special STAB that roasts the likes of Gliscor, Landorus-T and Ferrothorn. Roar is primarily for GeoXern. The spread allows PDon to survive a +2 EQ from Ekiller at full health. The rest is dumped in special bulk to better handle Xerneas. Relaxed is used to preserve the power on Lava Plume.

Latias @ Soul Dew
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 212 HP / 120 SpA / 176 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Defog
- Roost
- Draco Meteor
- Psyshock

Latias and PDon form a good balanced core. Latias is specially bulky while PDon is physically bulky; Latias can handle Pyogre and Ground types that PDon is weak to, whereas PDon can handle Steel and Fairy types that Latias has trouble against. 212 HP allows Latias to survive 2HKO from max Sp. Atk Primal Kyogre's Ice Beam. 176 Spe and Timid allows Latias to outspeed max speed base 100s (Palkia). Defog is a must when using Ho-Oh; Roost and Draco Meteor are self explanatory; Psyshock has some notable targets including Ho-Oh, Kyogre and Blissey.

Salamence @ Salamencite
Ability: Intimidate
Happiness: 0
EVs: 248 HP / 136 Def / 124 Spe
Impish Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Frustration
- Roost
- Refresh

Bulky Mega Salamence gives this team a check to both EKiller and Ho-Oh. With the current spread, it has a 25% chance of being OHKOed by +3 Jolly Espeed after SR, and a 76.6% to 2HKO back with no SR and one round of LO recoil. Mega Salamence can also switch in and win one on one versus CB Ho-Oh, thanks to being faster (able to tank multiple Brave Birds with fast Roost) and KO back when it's weakened by recoil. Refresh makes Salamence a status sponge in general, turning it into a decent stall breaker, and especially helps with switching into Sacred Fire. 145 Atk and Aerilate still hits pretty hard without investment, and with a DD boost it can still sweep through weakened teams. Thanks to the bulk + Roost/Refresh, Salamence even has the potential to set up multiple DD boosts, which makes up for the lack of offensive investment. 124 Spe EVs to outspeed max speed base 90s, so it doesn't get wrecked by the occasional Timid Primal Kyogre or max speed Ho-Oh or get revenge killed by something like Scarf Zekrom.

Klefki @ Leftovers
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Thunder Wave
- Toxic
- Play Rough
- Reflect

Klefki serves a few important purposes. It checks Yveltal fairly reliably (especially Foul Play variants), which threatens all other members. It also check Xerneas, again. Between PDon, Ho-Oh and Keys, GeoXern has a pretty hard time sweeping. Prankster Thunder Wave is also a powerful tool against offensive teams, and serves to prevent an opposing sweeper from getting out of control. Toxic is almost mandatory to hit the ubiquitous PDon as it switches in. Play Rough and Careful are chosen to better deal with aforementioned Yveltal and Darkceus. Finally, Prankster Reflect gives Klefki better mixed bulk, and prevents it from being set up fodder for Ekiller.

Arceus @ Spooky Plate
Ability: Multitype
EVs: 248 HP / 4 Def / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Judgment
- Recover
- Will-O-Wisp

I debated between Ekiller, Ghost and Dark when choosing my Arceus form. Ekiller seemed like the more "proactive" choice, but it does put quite a bit of pressure on MMence in checking physical threats e.g. opposing Ekiller AND Ho-Oh. Ghostceus and Darkceus are kind of similar. Ghostceus can reliably check Ekiller whereas Darkceus has a much harder time. Ghostceus also handles the likes of Scolipede lead and Scarf Genesect much better than Darkceus. Using Ghostceus leaves me more open to Yveltal but Klefki is quite reliable in checking it. The real drawbacks I feel are two Ghost weaknesses and no resists, as well as a weakness to Refresh Darkceus. The spread is fairly straight forward, max HP and speed to at least speed tie with all base 120s (namely MMence and SD Arceus) for that quick WoW. Calm Mind gives it sweeping power with Judgment.


Tough Enemies

Arceus-Dark: a pretty gaping hole to Refresh CM Arceus-Dark right now. Klefki doesn't do enough damage to beat through Recover. This definitely weighed in my debate in Darkceus versus Ghostceus.

Giratina-O: Giratina-O can be annoying to deal with (the more offensive it is the harder). Groudon can wall it ok but can't do much back. Mega Mence can also deal with it to some extent, but does not enjoy taking Dragon Tail (40.2% - 47.8% with no chance of Roost right away, diminishing its ability to check other threats), not to mention the occasional Draco Meteor. Klefki can deal with most attacks, but struggles against Shadow Force.

Mewtwo: Mewtwo is hard to deal with because of its unpredictability. Klefki can handle Mega Mewtwo X, but if it's a specially offensive Mewtwo or MMY carrying Fire Blast then it gets wrecked. Latias can deal with special attacking Mewtwos but struggles against Ice Punch from MMX (a more and more common move it carries).

 

[PISTOLERO]

Hello Firebird Maniac, this is a very solid team. I actually have built something that is literally the same, almost right down to the EV spreads (all six teammembers with the same movesets and items). I'm not accusing you of stealing it at all though, I can see exactly how you built this because i did exactly the same thing, so I think that I should be able to help you. My different variations had Jolly Choice Band Ho-Oh, bulky Adamant Salamence with Earthquake, and other things. I never tried fully physically defensive Refresh Salamence though, because I think that offensive Salamence works better on this team alongside Ho-Oh. You could try a spread of 200 HP / 132 Atk / 176 Spe Adamant with Return / Refresh or Earthquake / Dragon Dance / Roost.

I ended up using physically defensive Xerneas over Klefki, with a moveset of Moonblast / Aromatherapy / Rest / Sleep Talk. This gives you a buffer against Salamence and various other physical attackers, but you need to pair it off with fully specially defensive Primal Groudon and 248 HP / 52 SpD Ho-Oh to insure yourself against Geomancy Xerneas. Running Aromatherapy allows you to run Earthquake Salamence, but you can also try the rather interesting Calm Mind instead of Aromatherapy - Malefic managed to beat my Life Orb Ho-Oh one-on-one with physically defensive Resttalk Calm Mind Xerneas, and Calm Mind Xerneas lessens a slight Ho-Oh weakness - I actually played Haxiom with my AromaRestTalk Xerneas version of this team, and managed to push his Ho-Oh / Mega Diancie team very close with Xerneas alone, and would have won with Calm Mind Xerneas.

The last recommendation I have for you is to trial Calm Mind on Latias and Defog on Arceus-Ghost. This gives the team an easier time against opposing Calm Mind Arceus-Rock, and does not increase the team's weakness to opposing Calm Mind Arceus-Dark or -Ghost (Latias can actually win against opposing Arceus-Ghost if it is ahead in Calm Minds thanks to Psyshock). Moving Defog to Arceus-Ghost also indirectly makes Ho-Oh less of a problem as Arceus-Ghost Defogging means that Ho-Oh will not often be able to come in on it without taking Stealth Rock damage.

 

[Lord Outrage]

Hi Fire bird Maniak. I have a few modifications i have thought of right now.
1)You have a specially bulky Groudon with roar and a Klefki for Xerneas. Even if you are using this classic ho oh set(That lives a +2 thunder from modest xerneas) that most people including good players use I think a more powerful and quicker ho oh would fit much better in your team since you are already well prepared for xerneas.
Ho-Oh @ Choice Band
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 120 HP / 252 Atk / 136 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Brave Bird
- Sacred Fire
- Earthquake
- Sleep Talk
This set(250 total speed) allows you to outspeed classic rock polish don(248 total) as well as all Giratina-O's and usually primal ogre set that want to speed creep defensive xerneas/yveltal.I usually run a bit more speed to outspeed max defense Lugia but i don't think you need that on your team.
2)Your Groudon set is classic and good nothing to add.
3)Latias set is fine also.But remove Defog and add cm.
4)Well I think your team needs a defogger.The reasons are: 1 Mon weak to rocks and another very weak to rocks and Klefki that is snack to primal don who comes in and throw rocks.So I advice you to use a physically bulky mega Salamence with defog, booty slam(30% paralysis chance even on ground types) as well as refresh.It can also switch in on ho oh who always come in on Klefki and hits like a truck.
Salamence (M) @ Salamencite
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 248 HP / 128 Def / 132 Spe
Impish Nature
IVs: 0 SpA
- Body Slam
- Roost
- Refresh
- Defog
The speed is enough to outspeed Landorus-T BTW who is base 91 slightly more than base 90.
5)Klefki is fine yeah with reflect even if some people would disagree.Klefki lures very dangerous offensive pokemons mainly extreme killer,don and ho oh so reflect can be good to diminish the damage.
6)This Arceus Ghost is really good yeah.Deals great with extreme killer and can be a winning conditions so nothing to add here.
So good team i just suggested a couple of small things.Good luck to you and good job.

 

[Firebird Maniac]

Hello Firebird Maniac, this is a very solid team. I actually have built something that is literally the same, almost right down to the EV spreads (all six teammembers with the same movesets and items). I'm not accusing you of stealing it at all though, I can see exactly how you built this because i did exactly the same thing, so I think that I should be able to help you. My different variations had Jolly Choice Band Ho-Oh, bulky Adamant Salamence with Earthquake, and other things. I never tried fully physically defensive Refresh Salamence though, because I think that offensive Salamence works better on this team alongside Ho-Oh. You could try a spread of 200 HP / 132 Atk / 176 Spe Adamant with Return / Refresh or Earthquake / Dragon Dance / Roost.

I ended up using physically defensive Xerneas over Klefki, with a moveset of Moonblast / Aromatherapy / Rest / Sleep Talk. This gives you a buffer against Salamence and various other physical attackers, but you need to pair it off with fully specially defensive Primal Groudon and 248 HP / 52 SpD Ho-Oh to insure yourself against Geomancy Xerneas. Running Aromatherapy allows you to run Earthquake Salamence, but you can also try the rather interesting Calm Mind instead of Aromatherapy - Malefic managed to beat my Life Orb Ho-Oh one-on-one with physically defensive Resttalk Calm Mind Xerneas, and Calm Mind Xerneas lessens a slight Ho-Oh weakness - I actually played Haxiom with my AromaRestTalk Xerneas version of this team, and managed to push his Ho-Oh / Mega Diancie team very close with Xerneas alone, and would have won with Calm Mind Xerneas.

The last recommendation I have for you is to trial Calm Mind on Latias and Defog on Arceus-Ghost. This gives the team an easier time against opposing Calm Mind Arceus-Rock, and does not increase the team's weakness to opposing Calm Mind Arceus-Dark or -Ghost (Latias can actually win against opposing Arceus-Ghost if it is ahead in Calm Minds thanks to Psyshock). Moving Defog to Arceus-Ghost also indirectly makes Ho-Oh less of a problem as Arceus-Ghost Defogging means that Ho-Oh will not often be able to come in on it without taking Stealth Rock damage.

Thanks for all your suggestions. I definitely looked at Edgar's RMT and tried that offensive Mega Mence. The problem is this version is cleanly 2HKO'ed by +1 Ekiller, so I wouldn't call it a reliable check. This puts a lot of pressure on Ghostceus (as PDon generally has a hard time maintaining full health). And if Ghostceus is the Defog user which means much more easily worn down, Ekiller can easily put me behind if not downright sweep. So I switched Defog back onto Latias (or maybe I'm just using Ghostceus too recklessly, I dunno). I might try Defog on Ghostceus again with the full physically defensive Mence.

I haven't tried physically defensive Xerneas yet (will try the next time I get to play). I did consider Xerneas as well, but the complete lack of priority (even if it's something like Prankster) does make me feel a bit uneasy. Still, will have to try first (most likely the Calm Mind version).

Hi Fire bird Maniak. I have a few modifications i have thought of right now.
1)You have a specially bulky Groudon with roar and a Klefki for Xerneas. Even if you are using this classic ho oh set(That lives a +2 thunder from modest xerneas) that most people including good players use I think a more powerful and quicker ho oh would fit much better in your team since you are already well prepared for xerneas.
Ho-Oh @ Choice Band
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 120 HP / 252 Atk / 136 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Brave Bird
- Sacred Fire
- Earthquake
- Sleep Talk
This set(250 total speed) allows you to outspeed classic rock polish don(248 total) as well as all Giratina-O's and usually primal ogre set that want to speed creep defensive xerneas/yveltal.I usually run a bit more speed to outspeed max defense Lugia but i don't think you need that on your team.
2)Your Groudon set is classic and good nothing to add.
3)Latias set is fine also.
4)Well I think your team needs a defogger.The reasons are: 1 Mon weak to rocks and another very weak to rocks and Klefki that is snack to primal don who comes in and throw rocks.So I advice you to use a physically bulky mega Salamence with defog, booty slam(30% paralysis chance even on ground types) as well as refresh.It can also switch in on ho oh who always come in on Klefki and hits like a truck.
Salamence (M) @ Salamencite
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 248 HP / 128 Def / 132 Spe
Impish Nature
IVs: 0 SpA
- Body Slam
- Roost
- Refresh
- Defog
The speed is enough to outspeed Landorus-T BTW who is base 91 slightly more than base 90.
5)Klefki is fine yeah with reflect even if some people would disagree.Klefki lures very dangerous offensive pokemons mainly extreme killer,don and ho oh so reflect can be good to diminish the damage.
6)This Arceus Ghost is really good yeah.Deals great with extreme killer and can be a winning conditions so nothing to add here.
So good team i just suggested a couple of small things.Good luck to you and good job.

Are you suggesting I add another Defogger? I already have a pretty good one in Latias.

Regarding Ho-Oh: it might just be a typo, but I think Regenerator is pretty important on Ho-Oh. As for the speed, I have seen people go up to 32 EVs while maintaining 248/52. I will try the 136 speed version if I decide not to switch Klefki to Xerneas like Pistolero suggested.

 

[Lord Outrage]

yeah sorry the Pressure was a typo since i made the set quick and imported.
As for defog I forgot to suggest that roar/cm would be better on latias instead of defog.You know very well that rock groudon is very popular and defog salamence is a better answer to it for direct defog support specially that a lot of groudon are going for a dragon coverage move like dtail or dclaw.Also Latias can be pursuited so defog mence is a better option on a team like that.

 

[Firebird Maniac]

yeah sorry the Pressure was a typo since i made the set quick and imported.
As for defog I forgot to suggest that roar/cm would be better on latias instead of defog.You know very well that rock groudon is very popular and defog salamence is a better answer to it for direct defog support specially that a lot of groudon are going for a dragon coverage move like dtail or dclaw.Also Latias can be pursuited so defog mence is a better option on a team like that.

Agreed, so I've followed Pistolero's advice and put Calm Mind on Latias and Defog on Ghostceus. Salamence has a pretty nasty weakness to SR itself, and I've really liked the idea of bulky DD set up.