I'm aware, but with Terrakion and Mega-Pinsir leaving UU Doublade isn't quite as relevant there as it used to be to the point that it's usage is going to go down, not up. Either way, theorymoning for a future change is pointless.
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Resource RU Viability Ranking: ORAS Edition
- Thread starter Molk
- Start date
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Mega Pinsir didn't even touched UU for a second, it was istantbanned, while Terrakion lasted a week only. Thus, all the usage that Doublade got can't be attributed to him only, but rather to factors such as the prominence of Heracross, Salamence, Crobat and Aerodactyl.
Still, enough talk on theorymon metagame, let's focus on the actual meta from now.
Still, enough talk on theorymon metagame, let's focus on the actual meta from now.
Molk here are some suggestions for rank descriptions:
S Rank: Reserved for Pokemon that are amazing in the RU metagame. These Pokemon are usually able to perform a variety of roles effectively, or can just do one extremely well. Their use has low risk involved and high reward exerted. Pokemon in this rank have very few flaws that are patched up by numerous positive traits.
A Rank: Reserved for Pokemon that are fantastic in the RU metagame, and can sweep, support, or wall significant portions of the metagame. These Pokemon require less support than most others to be used effectively and have few flaws that can easily be compensated for when compared to their positive traits.
B Rank: Reserved for Pokemon that are great in the RU metagame. These Pokemon have more notable flaws than those above them that affect how they function in the tier. Their positive traits still outshine their negatives, but they require a bit more team support to bring out their full potential.
C Rank: Reserved for Pokemon that have notable niches in the RU metagame, but have just as many notable flaws that prevent them from being effective. Pokemon in the C tier often require significant support to be effective. Pokemon from this rank tend to face a lot of competition with the more commonly used Pokemon.
D Rank: Reserved for Pokemon that are mediocre in the RU metagame, but are viable enough to justify their use on select teams. These Pokemon are either usable but have no real niche, or are only capable of doing their specific task and fail at doing anything more than that. Pokemon from this rank have multiple crippling flaws that prevent them from being successful a majority of the time, and are often severely outclassed because of it.
You don't have to change them it's just a suggestion.
S Rank: Reserved for Pokemon that are amazing in the RU metagame. These Pokemon are usually able to perform a variety of roles effectively, or can just do one extremely well. Their use has low risk involved and high reward exerted. Pokemon in this rank have very few flaws that are patched up by numerous positive traits.
A Rank: Reserved for Pokemon that are fantastic in the RU metagame, and can sweep, support, or wall significant portions of the metagame. These Pokemon require less support than most others to be used effectively and have few flaws that can easily be compensated for when compared to their positive traits.
B Rank: Reserved for Pokemon that are great in the RU metagame. These Pokemon have more notable flaws than those above them that affect how they function in the tier. Their positive traits still outshine their negatives, but they require a bit more team support to bring out their full potential.
C Rank: Reserved for Pokemon that have notable niches in the RU metagame, but have just as many notable flaws that prevent them from being effective. Pokemon in the C tier often require significant support to be effective. Pokemon from this rank tend to face a lot of competition with the more commonly used Pokemon.
D Rank: Reserved for Pokemon that are mediocre in the RU metagame, but are viable enough to justify their use on select teams. These Pokemon are either usable but have no real niche, or are only capable of doing their specific task and fail at doing anything more than that. Pokemon from this rank have multiple crippling flaws that prevent them from being successful a majority of the time, and are often severely outclassed because of it.
You don't have to change them it's just a suggestion.
I'm not suggesting for anything to rise or drop, but I kind of just want to stress how really cool Heliosk is in the current meta, and how I feel like a lot of people kind of shrug it off as just another Electric-type. In my opinion, I think it's a lot more effective than Jolteon at the moment. While Jolteon may be faster, Heliosk has an insanely good movepool which complements its STAB moves very well. Jolteon on the other hand has complete ass coverage and outside of STAB, HP Water, and Shadow Ball (which doesn't really give it much coverage anyway). Specs is strong, but it absolutely hates being locked into any move that isn't of the Electric-type, and even then it's very susceptible to the plethora of Ground-types in the tier. The massive influx of Mega Steelix only further complicates things as well.
Other than the massive Speed difference (which really isn't too significant now that Mega Pidgeot and Serp are gone) Heliosk has everything Jolteon wishes it had; good coverage, Dual STAB, and an arguably more useful ability. The combination of Volt Switch/T-Bolt, Surf, Focus Blast, and Hyper Voice makes Heliosk very difficult to switch into outside of super bulky shit like Cresselia and bulky Melo. Its coverage moves are strong enough where it doesn't need to run Specs and can simply run Life Orb for extra oomph. Jolteon is extremely predictable and its shitty coverage keeps it from being able to pressure bulkier teams like Heliosk can. Heliosk's ability to hit a wider range of Pokemon such as Grass-types, Mega Steelix, Tyrantrum, and Druddigon is just very useful and allows you to keep up the offensive momentum much more effectively without having to rely as much on prediction or Volt Switching at the right times. Also I'm not saying that Volt Absorb is a bad ability, but Dry Skin is just so much more useful considering how common Scald is, allowing it to switch into the likes of Alo and defensive Slowking with impunity. It's also a great check to SD Aqua Jet Gator, and it's Normal-typing, while a double-edged sword, allows it to be a great check to Doublade and STAB Hyper Voice 2HKOs most bulky Grass-types.
All in all, I think Heliosk should get a lot more recognition. Jolteon always seems to be considered the better of the two when the only thing I really see it having over Heliosk is higher Speed and BP I guess. It just seems like Heliosk's far superior coverage and other useful attributes is far more useful than Speed though, and even then, 109 Speed is still very fast and the only thing VERY significant that Heliosk misses out on are Dugtrio and Scarf Emboar.
I could just be talking about of my ass here, but when choosing an Electric-type for my team, Heliosk and Rotom-C always seem to be far more useful than Jolteon, especially the former.
Other than the massive Speed difference (which really isn't too significant now that Mega Pidgeot and Serp are gone) Heliosk has everything Jolteon wishes it had; good coverage, Dual STAB, and an arguably more useful ability. The combination of Volt Switch/T-Bolt, Surf, Focus Blast, and Hyper Voice makes Heliosk very difficult to switch into outside of super bulky shit like Cresselia and bulky Melo. Its coverage moves are strong enough where it doesn't need to run Specs and can simply run Life Orb for extra oomph. Jolteon is extremely predictable and its shitty coverage keeps it from being able to pressure bulkier teams like Heliosk can. Heliosk's ability to hit a wider range of Pokemon such as Grass-types, Mega Steelix, Tyrantrum, and Druddigon is just very useful and allows you to keep up the offensive momentum much more effectively without having to rely as much on prediction or Volt Switching at the right times. Also I'm not saying that Volt Absorb is a bad ability, but Dry Skin is just so much more useful considering how common Scald is, allowing it to switch into the likes of Alo and defensive Slowking with impunity. It's also a great check to SD Aqua Jet Gator, and it's Normal-typing, while a double-edged sword, allows it to be a great check to Doublade and STAB Hyper Voice 2HKOs most bulky Grass-types.
All in all, I think Heliosk should get a lot more recognition. Jolteon always seems to be considered the better of the two when the only thing I really see it having over Heliosk is higher Speed and BP I guess. It just seems like Heliosk's far superior coverage and other useful attributes is far more useful than Speed though, and even then, 109 Speed is still very fast and the only thing VERY significant that Heliosk misses out on are Dugtrio and Scarf Emboar.
I could just be talking about of my ass here, but when choosing an Electric-type for my team, Heliosk and Rotom-C always seem to be far more useful than Jolteon, especially the former.
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Definitely agreeing with Heliolisk moving up as it's one of the best balanced teams wrecker atm, that are now almost always centralised around Mega-Steelix plus bulky water cores, and have most of the time a hard time dealing with great STAB + Focus Blast/Surf combination (which is why Exploud rose i guess?), while standard Electric resists can't be considered as counters or even as checks anymore since it now has Hyper Voice, leaving people only relying on fat psychic SpDef walls as Gary2346 said, that are easily beaten at eating either repeated Volt Switchs and Stealth Rock damages. Although, the fact it has a p. neat speed tier means it actually has great matchup vs more offensive teams, and can carry a Life Orb just unlike Exploud that is too slow to. So yeah, it seems quite obvious that it must be ranked even higher than it imo, A rank might be a good start.
About Tyrantrum, i totally disagree about its rose and i'll go even further on nominating it to drop to A/A- rank. Its trash double-typing and stats makes it quite impossible to use as a reliable wallbreaking pivot with a CB, as a very few defensive mons can let it coming in safely. Just look at Pangoro, even if its bulk overall was not that good too, it could actually start threatning the opponent over several common walls such as Rhyperior, Mega Steelix, Doublade, Bronzong, Registeel, Druddigon, eventually Escavalier, and let's say both Slowking and Reuniclus. Tyra just can't, a lot of them can easily ohko while can even take a hit back, which means that it's only effective with momentum grabbing support, which is kinda pointless for a S Ranked-sweeper, although it's not like if dragon/rock-stab is the greatest offensively.
And let's not talk about the key support it needs to aweaken its checks from the likes of SD Drapion, or the huge competition it faces with the other high-ranked set-up sweepers that unlike it, doesn't really need lures to threaten more defensive teams.
About Tyrantrum, i totally disagree about its rose and i'll go even further on nominating it to drop to A/A- rank. Its trash double-typing and stats makes it quite impossible to use as a reliable wallbreaking pivot with a CB, as a very few defensive mons can let it coming in safely. Just look at Pangoro, even if its bulk overall was not that good too, it could actually start threatning the opponent over several common walls such as Rhyperior, Mega Steelix, Doublade, Bronzong, Registeel, Druddigon, eventually Escavalier, and let's say both Slowking and Reuniclus. Tyra just can't, a lot of them can easily ohko while can even take a hit back, which means that it's only effective with momentum grabbing support, which is kinda pointless for a S Ranked-sweeper, although it's not like if dragon/rock-stab is the greatest offensively.
And let's not talk about the key support it needs to aweaken its checks from the likes of SD Drapion, or the huge competition it faces with the other high-ranked set-up sweepers that unlike it, doesn't really need lures to threaten more defensive teams.
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Poliwrath is pretty much Mr.Defensive Utility in the current meta.By virtue of his typing, not only does he fits in quite a lot of teams, but he also checks or counters a lot of things:
Durant, Houndoom,Tyrantrum,Feraligatr, Cobalion, Steelix Mega, Escavalier, Doublade, Rhyperior, Dugtrio,Non Freeze Dry Mega Glalie,Emboar locked on anything but Wild Charge.
All these pokemons are else countered, else checked by Poliwrath, and that's just the S/A Ranks.
His biggest downside is that he relies on RestTalk Strategies to function " properly "
That's saying a lot on this underrated beast named as Poliwrath.
Gourgeist-Xl for B rank
I am honestly shocked to see this being C+ rank when it's really damn good and I mean it's a great poke. First off let's go over what it has going for it. 85/122/75 bulk is pretty good and Ghost/Grass typing is quite nice defensively(Immunities to normal,fighting along with resistances to grass,electric,water,ground are all damn good). It also is a effective spinblocker on stall as it can check a ton of threatening mons(mega steelix,cobalion,virizion,GATR,tyrantrum,Heliolisk,and Rhyperior). Also has support options like leech seed,will-o-wisp, and moltres leaving was huge for it as it gave moltres a free switch in without rock slide which gourgeist doesn't have a whole lot of room for. However it does have downsides such has synthesis having limited PP,lack of a movepool,extremely suspectible to statuses and gives most grass types a free switch in. But other then that I believe this should be B rank.
I am honestly shocked to see this being C+ rank when it's really damn good and I mean it's a great poke. First off let's go over what it has going for it. 85/122/75 bulk is pretty good and Ghost/Grass typing is quite nice defensively(Immunities to normal,fighting along with resistances to grass,electric,water,ground are all damn good). It also is a effective spinblocker on stall as it can check a ton of threatening mons(mega steelix,cobalion,virizion,GATR,tyrantrum,Heliolisk,and Rhyperior). Also has support options like leech seed,will-o-wisp, and moltres leaving was huge for it as it gave moltres a free switch in without rock slide which gourgeist doesn't have a whole lot of room for. However it does have downsides such has synthesis having limited PP,lack of a movepool,extremely suspectible to statuses and gives most grass types a free switch in. But other then that I believe this should be B rank.
Yeah I agree with the sentiment on Heliolisk: It should definitely rise to somewhere in the A Ranks, probably in A- or A. It is definitely the best offensive Electric-type in the tier, possessing really good coverage with good STAB moves like Hyper Voice and Volt Switch, the latter being really good and allows it to serve a dual function as a momentum grabber and a strong attacker. With Surf and Focus Blast, Heliolisk can mash through most Ground-types like Rhyperior and Mega Steelix quite well, and with Hyper Voice it sure hits pretty hard. Anything that can take it on well can be handles by a teammate which Heliolisk can get into on the switch-in by using Volt Switch. With its great movepool, Heliolisk can hit much of the tier hard. It also has a clutch Ghost immunity allowing it to take on Doublade, and Dry Skin is also really good to try to discourage potential Scalds from Alomomola, Slowking, and Clawitzer, all of which heliolisk can threaten with its STAB Volt Switch or to an extent Thunderbolt. A sentiment a while ago was that Jolteon was superior, but honestly, Jolteon really doesn't have much over Helio except for SubPass and outspeeding Dugtrio and Scarf Emboar. I guess it's also not weak to Mach Punch but meh. Heliolisk is definitely a really good Pokemon in this meta and imo is the best Electric-type in RU so it should definitely rise to somewhere in the A Ranks.
As for Tyrantrum. While I'm not quite sure about it rising to S, I disagree with it dropping. It's undoubtedly a large threat in RU with its sheer power behind CB Head Smash and Outrage-the former is so ridiculously powerful it can muscle through resists like Bronzong with its sheer power. Tyrantrum does suffer from its meh defensive typing, but rest assured is that once the thing gets in safely, it does an insane amount of damage. It performs extremely well against slower teams, using its CB Head Smash to just muscle through such Pokemon. CB isn't all you've got either: Tyrantrum can run a Scarf and use its powerful Head Smash against offensive teams to serve as a strong revenge killer against offense. It can also try to be a sweeper with DD or Rock Polish which allow it to do really well, and aside from its STABs, Tyrantrum has stuff like EQ and Superpower to hit resists. I'm not sure about it being S, seeing as it does have quite a few checks and counters, but it's definitely deserving of A+, and shouldn't go lower.
I'm not sure about Poliwrath but given its typing and RestTalk is a lot better this gen, it can counter a lot of stuff I guess and its phazing and Scald are generally useful for a defensive Pokemon. It has good bulk, and a good typing, and phazing is useful, as is spreading burns. I guess its ability to check a lot of stuff has gotten a lot more relevant lately so meh somewhere in the C's should be okay for a start.
Not commenting on Gourgeist-Super because I've never used it, though it seems decent.
As for Tyrantrum. While I'm not quite sure about it rising to S, I disagree with it dropping. It's undoubtedly a large threat in RU with its sheer power behind CB Head Smash and Outrage-the former is so ridiculously powerful it can muscle through resists like Bronzong with its sheer power. Tyrantrum does suffer from its meh defensive typing, but rest assured is that once the thing gets in safely, it does an insane amount of damage. It performs extremely well against slower teams, using its CB Head Smash to just muscle through such Pokemon. CB isn't all you've got either: Tyrantrum can run a Scarf and use its powerful Head Smash against offensive teams to serve as a strong revenge killer against offense. It can also try to be a sweeper with DD or Rock Polish which allow it to do really well, and aside from its STABs, Tyrantrum has stuff like EQ and Superpower to hit resists. I'm not sure about it being S, seeing as it does have quite a few checks and counters, but it's definitely deserving of A+, and shouldn't go lower.
I'm not sure about Poliwrath but given its typing and RestTalk is a lot better this gen, it can counter a lot of stuff I guess and its phazing and Scald are generally useful for a defensive Pokemon. It has good bulk, and a good typing, and phazing is useful, as is spreading burns. I guess its ability to check a lot of stuff has gotten a lot more relevant lately so meh somewhere in the C's should be okay for a start.
Not commenting on Gourgeist-Super because I've never used it, though it seems decent.
Gonna edit this with more detail, but nominating Pinsir for B rank.
It can run sets such as SD/Scarfed/Band quite effectively, thanks to his access to a great physical move pool, priority and good physical bulk. It's decent speed and an ability in Moxie allows him to clean up teams/revenge kill very well with Choice Scarf, which imo is his flagship set right now and makes him Heracross' RU cousin.
It can run sets such as SD/Scarfed/Band quite effectively, thanks to his access to a great physical move pool, priority and good physical bulk. It's decent speed and an ability in Moxie allows him to clean up teams/revenge kill very well with Choice Scarf, which imo is his flagship set right now and makes him Heracross' RU cousin.
Alright, here goes. Can I get Dugtrio going from A- to A? In the current meta, dugtrio is just fantastic. It can run an excellent lead off set with SR/EQ/Memento/reversal holding the focus sash to give setup opportunities to teammates and get rocks up fast. However, what I really came here to talk about was its choice band set. Consisting of earthquake/StoneEdge/suckerpunch/memento, this set can revenge kill the HUGE quantity of ground weak pokemon in the teir like Delphox, Emboar, Tyrantrum, Cobalion, Houndoom, Qwilfish, Registeel, heliolisk and Mega Camerupt to name a few, as well as Choice-locked jolteon. It can even take on weakend Rock-weak pokemon like Mega-Glailie and Mega-Abomasnow. Considering the fact that many of the aforementioned pokemon are quite common and threatening, Dugtrio is a pokemon that can manage them easier then any other pokemon in the tier. Finally, It packs reasonably powerful priority in the form of sucker punch, letting it pick off sweepers at +1 speed. To put it simply, many players don't understand... *Puts on sunglasses- The "magnetude" of dugtrio's power. YAAAAAAAAAAaaaaa!!!!...
Problem w/ glalie and obama is that they always carry ice shard.... also some of the eq-weak pokemon run scarf to outspeed. also, priority like lee's mach punch can easily destroy duggy. Thing is, all but 1 of the A-rank mons can take a hit or two and ko back. Also, CB cannot patch up a measly 80 base atk very well. Nonetheless, forcing memento on a mon is a pretty good niche, but that itself does not merit A-rank.
Kangaskhan should be put at C+ rank or B-.
Actually It's sad that this isn't ranked and to be honest it's a lot more viable then cinccino and bouffalant. Unlike cinccino kangaskhan hits just as hard and has good bulk to boot. It's not quite as powerful as bouffalant but it hits a important speed tier(90) and has Scrappy which is really important as it means unlike normal type bretherin it can spam it's stab moves much easier even if they have a ghost type. It has drain punch for steels even though it won't hurt them to much it also recovers double-edge recoil can hit doublade and spiritomb. Another thing it boasts over normal types like cinccino,zangoose, not only is it rather fast it has good bulk for an offensive pokemon that mach punches from lee will never kill it unless worn down while mach punch ends the other 2. While it may have flaws as it lacks raw power it's certainly more viable then cinccino and bouffalant.
Actually It's sad that this isn't ranked and to be honest it's a lot more viable then cinccino and bouffalant. Unlike cinccino kangaskhan hits just as hard and has good bulk to boot. It's not quite as powerful as bouffalant but it hits a important speed tier(90) and has Scrappy which is really important as it means unlike normal type bretherin it can spam it's stab moves much easier even if they have a ghost type. It has drain punch for steels even though it won't hurt them to much it also recovers double-edge recoil can hit doublade and spiritomb. Another thing it boasts over normal types like cinccino,zangoose, not only is it rather fast it has good bulk for an offensive pokemon that mach punches from lee will never kill it unless worn down while mach punch ends the other 2. While it may have flaws as it lacks raw power it's certainly more viable then cinccino and bouffalant.
If I'm going to be honest, I actually strongly disagree with ranking Kanga. It isn't more viable than Bouffalant, Cinccino, and Tauros, and if anything it's actually even worse than most of those Normal-types in this metagame because it suffers the exact same problem as most physical Normal-types in RU: it's just so easily beaten. Kangaskhan actually is quite weak especially without any boosting item (Noivern, for one thing, is considered a rather weak Pokemon). Kangaskhan might do well against like...Hyper Offense builds, but most teams will be built in such a manner that Kangaskhan won't do jack. It was C Rank before in XY and was removed because a lot of top Pokemon could easily ensure that it had a minimal effect on the battle, and nothing changed. If anything, it only got even worse because Tyrantrum is relevant now, and we have Mega Steelix joining the RU crew. Furthermore, Durant and Cobalion have only gotten better since XY. This makes it so that Kanga has a really hard time actually doing anything against most good teams. This is because even though it has good coverage, its power is underwhelming so most bulkier builds will take it down easily. I know its bulk is good but even that isn't and probably won't ever be enough to make up for Kangaskhan's lack of power and relative susceptibility to a lot of top threats in this meta. It's donked by things like Alomomola, Rhyperior, Escavalier, Doublade, Durant, Cobalion, and so much more. Basically, Kanga is weak and has a complete inability to do significant work against most competent RU teams.
Maybe Kanga is okay against some offensive Pokemon like Slurpuff and Heliolisk, but outside of that it's just not a good Pokemon in RU. If it were to be ranked, maybe in D, but honestly I don't see why I would want to see it ranked as it's irrelevant in this metagame and is so easily beaten. At least other Normal-types have stuff like Sap Sipper, Knock off, going mixed, or something that might make them somewhat worth using on a few teams...
Maybe Kanga is okay against some offensive Pokemon like Slurpuff and Heliolisk, but outside of that it's just not a good Pokemon in RU. If it were to be ranked, maybe in D, but honestly I don't see why I would want to see it ranked as it's irrelevant in this metagame and is so easily beaten. At least other Normal-types have stuff like Sap Sipper, Knock off, going mixed, or something that might make them somewhat worth using on a few teams...
Definitely see where you're coming from here. However, the argument that CB doesn't patch up duggy's attack stat is somewhat flawed in the fact that talonflame up in OU has a similar attack stat, which in many player's opinions is easy to patch up with with CB.Mighty Dagon said:
Here's the thing: Talonflame's brave bird is the strongest priority move in the game(It's even stronger then arceus's extreme speed). And it also has swords dance to help patch it up and it's main moves have high base powers.
Once again, a good point is raised here. However, earthquake chills at a solid 100 power, so it's far from weak. More importantly though, duggy's attack sits at a sexy 389 with the CB equipped, so I would say that the Choice Band does a good enough job at patching up his attack.guidorealmsmc said:
plz-
252 Atk Choice Band Dugtrio Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Reuniclus: 153-181 (36 - 42.6%) -- 95.8% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Choice Band Dugtrio Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Aromatisse: 232-274 (57.1 - 67.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Choice Band Dugtrio Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Slowking: 213-252 (54.1 - 64.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
once u factor in slack off/wish/recover, duggy's just setup bait.
Since when is duggy a wallbreaker? Also, you just proved that Reunicles was the only pokemon out of these three that isn't initially 2HKOed by Duggy. Also, Hazard support can be used to add potency to Duggy's power. Duggy kills what he needs to kill; delphox, emboar, heliolisk etc.Mighty Dagon said:
please, i'm running out of ways to put this.
reuni- rekts duggy
tisse- wish+protect
slowking- screw duggy, scald the hell out of it- 30%=100%; slack off+leftovers
Keep in mind tisse and slowking have ZERO defensive investment. ZERO. Duggy only traps frail, ground-weak mons. It's a good niche, but it's not worthy of A rank.
Also, emboar has sucker and delphoxes usually run scarf.
Just put this matter to rest. No more inane arguments for duggy. Please.
I agree. I'm sorry.
I'm not leaning either way on moving Dugtrio up, but Mighty Dagon who cares if Dugtrio can't break a wall / defensive Pokemon? It doesn't need to break said Pokemon because its on a team to trap selective Pokemon such as Registeel to open up holes for other members of its team, such as Meloetta, to sweep. It's not a wallbreaker and is ment to pick off Ground weak Pokemon like wacky initially stated
lookin at galbia ;o.
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Saying it shouldn't move up because it can't break through defensive Pokemon just didn't make sense to me, no actual opinion on if it should move up.
In fact a lot of teams seem to be quite weak to ground lately
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Saying it shouldn't move up because it can't break through defensive Pokemon just didn't make sense to me, no actual opinion on if it should move up.
On that note, I think a good nomination for the viability rankings would be Samurott. In particular, I'm really liking the SD set, which used to be entirely outclassed by Feraligatr, but now has a very good merit, especially in this metagame.
Samurott @ Lum Berry
Ability: Torrent
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Razor Shell
- Megahorn
- Aqua Jet
Thanks to its pure Water-typing, it can actually switch into Mega Camerupt and Mega Steelix and take them on, both of which can be very hard switch-ins to come by for offensive teams. Another huge perk it has for offensive teams is its unique access to the high base powered Megahorn. Megahorn lets it manhandle the Grass- and Psychic-types which have become light years better thanks to the ban of Moltres and Pangoro. It can switch into Slowking, Reuniclus, and Cresselia a few times throughout the game and threaten the 2HKO with Megahorn, and if it's carrying Lum Berry, it can even set up on Thunder Wave Cresselia, which can stop the momentum of some offensive teams cold in its tracks. While it can't switch into Tangrowth, Mega Abomasnow, or Rotom-C, it does threaten a 2HKO on the former two, and a clean OHKO on the latter. Lum Berry is the preferred item also because it takes on Slowking and Alomomola, making their Scalds set-up fodder, and the former eats a clean OHKO from +2 Megahorn while the latter gets 2HKO or 3HKO depending on the spread. After reviewing some of the calcs, Life Orb also has good merit, as it can push a decent amount of 3HKOs into 2HKOs and some 2HKOs into OHKOs.
Using a somewhat slow offensive Water-type used to be a drag for offensive teams, as it would have the typing to eat up Moltres Fire Blasts, but would be 2HKO'd by Fire Blast + Hurricane. However, now that Moltres is gone, it has the merit to be a considerable offensive threat, and is much more easiler to splash onto teams. On top of that, with the ban of Feraligatr, there is absolutely nothing left to outclass it. I think the slowness issue does also prevent it from being a top tier threat, with a lot of options still available for them as far as revenge killers that can take +2 Aqua Jet, such as Rotom-C, Jynx, Heliolisk, Virizion, and Whimsicott, but it's important to note that none of them like switching into Megahorn. I think putting it at B+ rank would be a good start.
Samurott @ Lum Berry
Ability: Torrent
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Razor Shell
- Megahorn
- Aqua Jet
Thanks to its pure Water-typing, it can actually switch into Mega Camerupt and Mega Steelix and take them on, both of which can be very hard switch-ins to come by for offensive teams. Another huge perk it has for offensive teams is its unique access to the high base powered Megahorn. Megahorn lets it manhandle the Grass- and Psychic-types which have become light years better thanks to the ban of Moltres and Pangoro. It can switch into Slowking, Reuniclus, and Cresselia a few times throughout the game and threaten the 2HKO with Megahorn, and if it's carrying Lum Berry, it can even set up on Thunder Wave Cresselia, which can stop the momentum of some offensive teams cold in its tracks. While it can't switch into Tangrowth, Mega Abomasnow, or Rotom-C, it does threaten a 2HKO on the former two, and a clean OHKO on the latter. Lum Berry is the preferred item also because it takes on Slowking and Alomomola, making their Scalds set-up fodder, and the former eats a clean OHKO from +2 Megahorn while the latter gets 2HKO or 3HKO depending on the spread. After reviewing some of the calcs, Life Orb also has good merit, as it can push a decent amount of 3HKOs into 2HKOs and some 2HKOs into OHKOs.
Using a somewhat slow offensive Water-type used to be a drag for offensive teams, as it would have the typing to eat up Moltres Fire Blasts, but would be 2HKO'd by Fire Blast + Hurricane. However, now that Moltres is gone, it has the merit to be a considerable offensive threat, and is much more easiler to splash onto teams. On top of that, with the ban of Feraligatr, there is absolutely nothing left to outclass it. I think the slowness issue does also prevent it from being a top tier threat, with a lot of options still available for them as far as revenge killers that can take +2 Aqua Jet, such as Rotom-C, Jynx, Heliolisk, Virizion, and Whimsicott, but it's important to note that none of them like switching into Megahorn. I think putting it at B+ rank would be a good start.
+2 252+ Atk Samurott Megahorn vs. 172 HP / 0 Def Mega Abomasnow: 458-540 (125.8 - 148.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Samurott Megahorn vs. 120 HP / 136 Def Alomomola: 245-289 (48.9 - 57.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
+2 252+ Atk Samurott Megahorn vs. 252 HP / 152+ Def Cresselia: 328-386 (73.8 - 86.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
+2 252+ Atk Samurott Megahorn vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Reuniclus: 414-488 (97.6 - 115%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Samurott Megahorn vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Rotom-C: 226-266 (93.7 - 110.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252+ Atk Samurott Megahorn vs. 248 HP / 76 Def Slowking: 524-618 (133.3 - 157.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Samurott Megahorn vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Tangrowth: 396-466 (98.2 - 115.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252+ Atk Samurott Megahorn vs. 120 HP / 136 Def Alomomola: 245-289 (48.9 - 57.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
+2 252+ Atk Samurott Megahorn vs. 252 HP / 152+ Def Cresselia: 328-386 (73.8 - 86.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
+2 252+ Atk Samurott Megahorn vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Reuniclus: 414-488 (97.6 - 115%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Samurott Megahorn vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Rotom-C: 226-266 (93.7 - 110.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252+ Atk Samurott Megahorn vs. 248 HP / 76 Def Slowking: 524-618 (133.3 - 157.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Samurott Megahorn vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Tangrowth: 396-466 (98.2 - 115.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
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Dugtrio's probably A+ or S tier atm, outside of maybe Alomomola it shapes the way your opponent plays when it's not in the game more than anything else in the tier. Here's the only Dugtrio set you should use atm:
Dugtrio @ Life Orb
Ability: Arena Trap
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Earthquake
- Substitute
- Sucker Punch
- Sludge Wave / Memento (this isn't very good but it has niche uses. Stone Edge is aids atm, it hits nothing that you want to hit)
Clicking volt switch? Better think twice. Your heliolisk might be dead next turn. Houndoom and Cobalion and Emboar without scarf can't finish off kills or they get trapped. Thinking about encoring that Swords Dance there, Whimsicott? Now you have to 50/50 me, if you encore the switch to Dugtrio you get ohkoed by Sludge Wave.
For the record, subs is there to dodge Sucker Punches. Sucker Punch has a bunch of utility in trapping low hp pokemon and finishing them off. Sludge Wave is there because Whimsicott owns and the rest of Dugtrio's movepool is bad (don't use Stealth Rock on Dugtrio. Just don't.) so you add something else to the list of scary stuff you trap. Putting a Dugtrio on your team makes the other pokemon on your team better because it creates mindgames on almost every turn and gives them more freedom to act because of the threat of a trap.
Dugtrio @ Life Orb
Ability: Arena Trap
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Earthquake
- Substitute
- Sucker Punch
- Sludge Wave / Memento (this isn't very good but it has niche uses. Stone Edge is aids atm, it hits nothing that you want to hit)
Clicking volt switch? Better think twice. Your heliolisk might be dead next turn. Houndoom and Cobalion and Emboar without scarf can't finish off kills or they get trapped. Thinking about encoring that Swords Dance there, Whimsicott? Now you have to 50/50 me, if you encore the switch to Dugtrio you get ohkoed by Sludge Wave.
For the record, subs is there to dodge Sucker Punches. Sucker Punch has a bunch of utility in trapping low hp pokemon and finishing them off. Sludge Wave is there because Whimsicott owns and the rest of Dugtrio's movepool is bad (don't use Stealth Rock on Dugtrio. Just don't.) so you add something else to the list of scary stuff you trap. Putting a Dugtrio on your team makes the other pokemon on your team better because it creates mindgames on almost every turn and gives them more freedom to act because of the threat of a trap.
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