Rofl jesus christ Srn you're exaggerating Mandibuzz by a long shot hahaha. B+?!? (< _ >)
Half these things you mentioned are not even good checks in the context of the cores and playstyles associated with them. It gets gassed up as an M-Metagross check all the time when in practice it's an entirely different story. Mandibuzz NEEDS rocks off the fields in any real scenario where you're trying to use this as your M-Metagross check and dear god let's hope M-Metagross doesn't get that attack boost from Meteor Mash on the switch in. Yeah 1v1 if the player is ass then maybe you'll get lucky and "check half the meta" but Mandibuzz is so easy to take advantage of due to its linearity, SR weakness, and the fact it's basically a liability against the majority of fairy types in the tier. Also you spent 3/4 of the post nitpicking firehusky's post about zapdos, some meta-game stuff, something about your relation in SPL, and calling out on his case justifying it as an argument when it's just you rambling on and on about his post. His post might've been flawed as hell but what's really amusing is that you call him out, again, and then try to justify some ranking by once again exaggerating every single pro that is supposably associated with checking threats who beat you in the long run cause with that 1v1 set you have just become a liability to so many specially offensive wall-breakers. Mandibuzz might check some of the physically inclined meta-game but when the direction is putting more emphasis on special wall-breakers to bypass these physical walls, Mandibuzz being one of them primarily considering it's "checking half the meta", you can't be seriously telling me that this should be moving up in the ranking. That set alone you posted is a liability to that other half of the meta you conveniently forgot to mention and big surprise most of that is paired up with what Mandibuzz is suppose to be checking anyways so there goes that fantastic check on top of the inevitable rocks pressure that is put on Mandibuzz. Also I'm just baffled by this list you posted cause you're relying on the most beneficial of circumstances, full health mandibuzz, in the hopes that these are actually consistently checked by Mandibuzz the way you're describing it.
With that said don't give me that "oh it's in my nature to comment like this" like you did with your last call out on firehusky's Thundy-T post. You can address an argument without being a dick about it especially someone who's making an effort and trying to learn about the meta. It's already hard enough for new comers to get into the sub-forums I would expect better from a former pre-contributor of all people to set an example of not throwing people under the bus so chill out with your attitude, stop cherry picking irrelevant points, and get a grip of your ego.
All right, by no means did I really mean to be a dick about stuff, I just want to make my stance clear.
Half these things you mentioned are not even good checks in the context of the cores and playstyles associated with them.
That set alone you posted is a liability to that other half of the meta you conveniently forgot to mention and big surprise most of that is paired up with what Mandibuzz is suppose to be checking anyways so there goes that fantastic check on top of the inevitable rocks pressure that is put on Mandibuzz.
So if mandibuzz alone isn't handling the partners of the mons it checks (free switch-in to keldeo, common mmeta partner) then just pair mandibuzz with pokemon that handle those, like a slowbro. There's no one pokemon that's gonna be handling cores of pokemon, I don't expect there to be, I never said mandibuzz was such a pokemon, and I don't know why you think I did.
"Conventiently forgot to mention?" Jee I don't think i should have to, no one mon is going to be handling everything. If mandibuzz has trouble with the partners of the mons it checks, then just pair it up with mons that beat them. This is basic synergy, and a natural through a natural teambuilding process your team will emerge fine.
It gets gassed up as an M-Metagross check all the time when in practice it's an entirely different story. Mandibuzz NEEDS rocks off the fields in any real scenario where you're trying to use this as your M-Metagross check and dear god let's hope M-Metagross doesn't get that attack boost from Meteor Mash on the switch in.
Dude. Every SR weak defensive mon needs rocks off the field, that much is kinda obvious. Does that invalidate bulky char-x, mandibuzz, zapdos, Bulky talon, bulky dnite, restalk gyara, or togekiss? Just because these mons are weak to rocks, does that mean they're totally useless defensively? You seem to act like they do; they obviously need hazard support in order to do their job lol.
besides, name me one fucking mon that can seriously take on mmeta on the switch-in after a meteor mash boost lol. Thats just unreasonable to assume. Seriously, i'm not asking for a core of mons because plenty of those exist and i'm well aware cores of mons are what beats mmeta, not a single one (cept mzor), but tell me what one fucking mon is handling mmeta like its nothing after mmash boost? It's unreasonable to expect mandibuzz, much less fucking anything, to do so.
Why are you pretending like i said mandibuzz was a counter to mmeta anyway? I said its a freaking check! A CHECK!!! I sure hope I don't have to teach the moderator of teh OU viability thread this, but do you know what the difference between a counter and a check is? A counter can handle the target switching in no matter what, and a check can beat it 1v1 while usually being able to switch into atleast 1 move of its target. THAT"S EXACTLY WHAT MANDIBUZZ DOES, ROCKS OR NOT. I'm not trying to sell that mandibuzz is a counter, so it'd be nice if you'd stop overreacting about that lol.
Yeah 1v1 if the player is ass then maybe you'll get lucky and "check half the meta" but Mandibuzz is so easy to take advantage of due to its linearity, SR weakness, and the fact it's basically a liability against the majority of fairy types in the tier.
Whats wrong with being linear? Did that stop mega pinsir from being A+ and being nominated for S several times? Did that stop mega medicham from clicking HJK and murdering most of the tier? Of course not, it may be easy to take advantage of by certain pokemon, but that's what partners are there for. You don't need to be able to do multiple things to be a good mon, all you need to be able to do is one job very well. And that's what mandibuzz does,
CHECKS (just so you don't overreact again), and i repeat,
CHECKS, several prominent physical attackers.
I already covered its SR weakness.
And the fact that it's "basically a liability against the majority of fairy types in the tier"?
Well duh, that goes for any dark type not named bisharp. I wonder why sableye is so high up in the viability list!
Ferrothorn and Scizor are "basically a liability against the majority of fire types in the tier," jee, why aren't those B?
Being vulnerable to a type doesn't affect gameplay as much as you think it does, it's hardly a serious flaw to consider. It's simply another weakness you need to cover in teambuilding, like you should be doing anyway. Ferrothorn sucks against fire, its a liability against them, so just pair it up with a keldeo or slowbro or something! Likewise, just pair up mandibuzz with a jirachi or scizor and you're fucking fine.
If anything, you're the one exaggerating its weaknesses
Also you spent 3/4 of the post nitpicking firehusky's post about zapdos, some meta-game stuff, something about your relation in SPL, and calling out on his case justifying it as an argument when it's just you rambling on and on about his post.
"some meta-game stuff?"
That was the primary argument some people like Celticpride (whose post i also nitpicked, i'm not picking on a nigga for the fun of it) were using to drop mandibuzz, and i was politely addressing it!
"Something about your relation in SPL?"
What?
I posted a relevant replay to answer to stalls supposed lack of need for another way of removing hazards, why is it that the little side-comment i made the part that you take away? I'd like to ask you to "stop cherry picking irrelevant points" as well pal.
After i "rambled on and on" about his post (I like to answer to every sentence of a post i'm answering because I wouldn't want to be a cherrypicker), I went on to present my actual case for raising mandibuzz
His post might've been flawed as hell but what's really amusing is that you call him out, again, and then try to justify some ranking by once again exaggerating every single pro that is supposably associated with checking threats who beat you in the long run cause with that 1v1 set you have just become a liability to so many specially offensive wall-breakers.
Dude I'm answering a recent post as a supplement to try and make a case for raising mandibuzz, why do you think i'm picking on the guy? It wouldn't matter who made that post, I would've "called him out" and nitpicked his post as a part of trying to raise mandibuzz; just like I did with thundy-t. It doesn't matter to me who makes the post, its the content of the post that counts.
firehusky , I realize that i've been harsh in my nitpicking but understand i'm harsh in my nitpicking in general, and I have no hard feelings on you. I hope you don't have any of those on me either. If you felt like you were being thrown under the bus, I sincerely apologize. Understand that I have no intention to do so, I just like to swear. I'm not a good teacher and I'm pretty rough when I convey my ideas. We all gotta start somewhere :]
EDIT: I mean look at what he posted just above right now. Everything he said was correct and relevant, am I going to "be a dick" and call him out for the fun of it? Of course not, there's nothing to nitpick. The man just politely refuted an argument. I got nothing against the guy...
Mandibuzz might check some of the physically inclined meta-game but when the direction is putting more emphasis on special wall-breakers to bypass these physical walls, Mandibuzz being one of them primarily considering it's "checking half the meta", you can't be seriously telling me that this should be moving up in the ranking.
My reason for moving mandibuzz up was because I believed it's been lower than it should be from the start, regardless of what direction the meta has taken. Besides, even if the meta is putting more emphasis on special wall breakers, mandi can just as easily go fully specially defensive and sacrifice its ability to check physical shit to now check special shit:
252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Focus Blast vs. 248 HP / 244+ SpD Mandibuzz: 152-179 (35.9 - 42.3%) --
14.5% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
0- Atk Mandibuzz Foul Play vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Landorus: 121-144 (37.9 - 45.1%) -- 8.2% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Life Orb Gengar Sludge Wave vs. 248 HP / 244+ SpD Mandibuzz: 152-179 (35.9 - 42.3%) --
14.5% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
0- Atk Mandibuzz Foul Play vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Gengar: 198-234 (76.4 - 90.3%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
Jee so much for being linear.
So much for being liable to special wallbreakers.
So much for being totally neutered from rocks.
So much for me giving mandibuzz the optimal conditions.
Give me another pokemon that can reliably check both lando-i and gengar (WITH ROCKS UP) at the same time. If you think the meta is putting
SUCH a big emphasis on special attackers all of a sudden so much that its anti-physical prowess is Soooooo irrelevant then go ahead and make mandibuzz specially defensive.
The mixed spread i gave earlier is not bad at beating shit 1v1, but if you honestly think special wallbreakers are such a problem then go ahead and go all out sdef.
Also I'm just baffled by this list you posted cause you're relying on the most beneficial of circumstances, full health mandibuzz, in the hopes that these are actually consistently checked by Mandibuzz the way you're describing it.
Full health mandibuzz lmao
Is it really that weird to showcase the defensive capabilities of a pokemon at full health?
Am I going to show off that specially defensive jirachi ISN"T a counter to mega diancie because it took 20% prior damage? Would you look at a team with defensive lando-t and then say that its weak to Mega pinsir because lando-t loses with 20% prior damge?
OF course not lol you assume a pokemon is at full health to fucking check a mon. You don't look at mega venu, pretend its 40%, watch it die to keldeo's specs scalds on the switch-in, and then scream that mvenu isn't a good keldeo check on the OU viability thread.
Not to mention that mandibuzz doesn't even necessarily NEED to consistently check the mons it does, Foul Play does a solid chunk of damage to most of what its checking, even a few resists like bisharp. By the time its dead, so is the mon its checking. That's part of what makes mandibuzz so nice, its not that passive at all. If you were as passive as alomo, staying alive would be more of a concern, but as long as mandi can live a hit and foul play back once or twice its more or less done its job.
Well, seems like i'm either "cherrypicking irrelevant points" or "rambling on and on" about whatever I do, so I hope that giving a thorough reply doesnt' score me a shiny infraction from a moderator of a pokemon website with 3 whole badges :O
