Gen 3 Overcast!

[Cloudscape]

 

[Cloudscape]

[UPDATE] After testing suggested team member switches and movesets, I decided upon these revisions. Although Porygon2 excelled at Dugtrio removal, he didn't have nearly as much use as Jirachi beyond that. In general, the team definitely missed Jirachi's offensive presence. Also, Hidden Power Ghost on Forretress proved to be way more useful than using Hidden Power Bug. The sacrifice of a stronger STAB against Pokemon like Celebi was worth being able to catch Gengar on the switch. Finally, Tyranitar's HP EV's were increased to ensure that he doesn't get OHKO'd by an immediate Dugtrio switch at full health. Here is the importable:

1597 (Swampert) (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Torrent
EVs: 252 HP / 216 Def / 40 SpA
Relaxed Nature
- Earthquake
- Ice Beam
- Protect
- Roar

WND (Tyranitar) (M) @ Choice Band
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 16 HP / 252 Atk / 240 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Rock Slide
- Focus Punch
- Earthquake
- Hidden Power [Bug]

Overcast (Gengar) (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 172 HP / 144 SpA / 192 Spe
Timid Nature
- Ice Punch
- Thunderbolt
- Giga Drain
- Hypnosis

4:30 AM (Forretress) (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 76 Atk / 4 Def / 176 SpD
Careful Nature
- Spikes
- Rapid Spin
- Earthquake
- Hidden Power [Ghost]

Adjust (Jirachi) @ Leftovers
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 HP / 224 Def / 32 SpA
Bold Nature
- Calm Mind
- Psychic
- Fire Punch
- Wish

Outernet (Zapdos) @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 32 Def / 224 SpD
Calm Nature
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
- Thunderbolt
- Roar

 

[BKC]

Right now you're completely unable to do anything against Gengar on an opposing Spikes team - it completely shits on Forretress and can come in all day to block Rapid Spin and harass your team. The standard option is to make Tyranitar a Pursuit variant, and although I don't see CBtar doing anything in particular for you, I like that set so much that instead I'll suggest HP Ghost on Forret, which is much less expected and will get the job done. Gengar are warier of Tyranitar trying to trap them now anyway. Losing HP Bug might suck but the pros so far outweigh the cons that I wouldn't think twice about it unless you want to trade that CBtar in for a Pursuiter. Another thing you can try is using Skarmory over Forret, giving you another dude not hit by Spikes, another phazer (one that can switch into Curselax!) and a much better pkmn overall. With Jirachi passing around Wishes, this could definitely work as an anti-Spikes measure.

If you want to check Raikou and keep the Aero/DDtar counter, consider making Swampert a Steelix (you can try Vaporeon over Jirachi if you want to keep Wish and a Water). Otherwise I'd advise Dugtrio in that slot, who also helps tremendously with Superachi/Celebi, and Dug/Skarm/Gar/Jira handles pretty much every physical threat I can think of, especially with Dug giving Skarm some safety against Magneton - you even have Zapdos to cover rogue Gyarados!

 

[Typhlito]

Thats a well built team (and rmt) you got there. It a solid team but I do see a slight issue involving spikes wearing you down. Without pursuit support, gengar is free to switch into fortress everytime it tries to spin away the hazards. So what you can do is change tar into a mixtar with rockslide/hp bug/focus punch/pursuit. Switching hp bug on fortress with hp ghost can also help you hit any spinner not named cloyster. And since spikers are an issue, you may want to try magneton to trap opposing steel types although it would raise your duggy weakness.

Speaking of duggy, I would give your tyranitar some bulk because dugtrio will knock it out right away if it gets the chance. Jirachi will also lose to it if it did not manage to set up leaving you wide open to celebi if they have it. So perhaps trying to fit in an agility metagross with hp bug/meteor mash/explosion or earthquake/rock slide can work. That would give you a much better answer to cune, celebi, raikou and aero depending on the moves you pick. Either that or porygon 2 to trap opposing duggys before they trap you.

So in short,
- switch band tar to mix tar to better handle gengar.
- Hp ghost fortress will hit spin blockers decently hard.
- Beef up tar's defenses to better tank duggy.
- Agility metagross/porygon/magneton to help fill some gaps.

Hope that helps

edit: bkc pretty much covered most of what i said lol

 

[Cloudscape]

BKC, thanks for the quick response. I do intend on keeping the Forretress, and HP Ghost seems like an incredibly worthwhile move to take the place of HP Bug. I have found it incredibly hard to spin, but the pay off from CB Tyranitar's offensive presence seemed to outweigh the ability to get Spikes off my side of the field. I'll experiment with the results, and if it seems to work, I will update the team accordingly.

I have realized that Skarmory is a better Pokemon in general, and is always a better answer to CurseLax than Swampert. I have found that Tyranitar can check Curselax not carrying Earthquake decently as well. I definitely do like using Forretress over Skarmory for the ability to spin. Finally, thanks for the advice on Dugtrio. I realize he is a very relevant Pokemon in ADV, however I have never been able use him to much avail; mostly due to the fact that I'm not very good at using him as a player. All in all, I can't see sacking Swampert for Dugtrio. I will also test Steelix in Swamperts place. Resisting Toxic may prove to be incredibly useful. Thanks for the rate!

 

[Cloudscape]

Typhlito, thanks for your advice. I will use BKC's advice regarding HP Ghost on Forretress, in order to, hopefully, eliminate my need for using Pursuit on Tyranitar. I just favor the power that Choice Band brings so much more. In response to your suggestion on Dugtrio, good point. I am going to invest 16 EV's into Tyranitar's HP from his Speed to ensure that he will not get OHKO'd outright. That was a threat that I should have been more wary of in the first place.

Finally, I do not know which Pokemon I would discard in order to further cover the Dugtrio. I know that a Dugtrio in the hands of an experienced player can be deadly, however, I do not know what Pokemon I could replace without greatly upsetting the synergy of the team. A Metagross replacing Jirachi seems to be the most reasonable solution as their types are identical, and it also works well as a sort of a special sponge. Let me know what you think. Thanks again.

 

[Cowboy Dan]

If you want to try out a pursuit tar, this is a set that has been working great for me:

Tyranitar (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 184 HP / 224 SpA / 100 SpD
Modest Nature
- Crunch
- Pursuit
- Flamethrower
- Roar/ Hidden Power Grass

Crunch + pursuit give it the ability to take on gengar should they switch or stay in (they usually stay in expecting pursuit) crunch also gives the tar a strong spammable stab move that hits a lot harder than most people expect and allows it to keep its status as an offensive presence. I still like to keep pursuit not only for gengar, but for aero/mence locked into hp fly/double edge. flamethrower hits steels and has good coverage with crunch. In the last slot roar works to help vs curselax (although with the specs drops crunch actually does well vs curselax) roar would also give you the option of using something like toxic or hydro pump on pert. HP grass on the other hand gives you more coverage though and allows you to nail swampert although again crunch does a pretty decent chunk to it. I understand not wanting to give up the power of cb tar, but give this set a try you may find the pros outweigh the cons.

I would also suggest a bulkier gar set, usually i aim to survive +1 mence's hp fly. If you want to survive it + sand you'll need 252 hp and 88 defense, however if you don't want to sacrifice that much from its other stats you can give it 48 defense evs which will survive the hp fly and allow you to kill the mence although its not guaranteed you will live the subsequent sandstorm damage. This really increases gar's longevity and prevents it from being as scared of things like cloyster surfs and other hits that gengar might need to take throughout the match. The ability to counter mence at full health is also helpful a lot of the time as many people tend to stay in on gengar after a dragon dance boost. You could also try willowisp over giga drain to help vs eq versions of lax, swampert doesn't like taking burns anyway.

 

[Typhlito]

If you want to try out a pursuit tar, this is a set that has been working great for me:

Tyranitar (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 184 HP / 224 SpA / 100 SpD
Modest Nature
- Crunch
- Pursuit
- Flamethrower
- Roar/ Hidden Power Grass

Crunch + pursuit give it the ability to take on gengar should they switch or stay in (they usually stay in expecting pursuit) crunch also gives the tar a strong spammable stab move that hits a lot harder than most people expect and allows it to keep its status as an offensive presence. I still like to keep pursuit not only for gengar, but for aero/mence locked into hp fly/double edge. flamethrower hits steels and has good coverage with crunch. In the last slot roar works to help vs curselax (although with the specs drops crunch actually does well vs curselax) roar would also give you the option of using something like toxic or hydro pump on pert. HP grass on the other hand gives you more coverage though and allows you to nail swampert although again crunch does a pretty decent chunk to it. I understand not wanting to give up the power of cb tar, but give this set a try you may find the pros outweigh the cons.

The problem with this though is that he would have a hard time breaking blissey and snorlax (eq variant) without some kind of physical mon. I dont think it would be a good idea for him to go full special tar unless he adds another physical mon.

 

[Cowboy Dan]

I wouldn't worry too much about bliss, between rachi and zapdos he can take on most variants pretty well Adding toxic on pert would also help vs the cm bolt beam variants. Eq lax might be a bit of an issue but with willowisp spikes and sand it shouldn't get much of a chance to set up. especially since it can't touch gar. It's also a possibility to forgo hypnosis for taunt which would allow gar to hard counter eq curselax, although this might not be worth it as gar would have no way to escape opposing pursuiters. Residual damage is usually a pretty easy way to deal with lax though.

 

[Typhlito]

Its the flamethrower + hp grass variant of blissey that concerns me much more than the boltbeam since that combo while rarer is quite deadly for this kind of build with his roar zapdos being the only safe switch in. Even jirachi and tar could potentially have trouble switching into it. You are right about gengar walling eq lax. Its just a bit of a gamble since lax is usually doesnt appear until late game and gar doesnt always last that long. He would just have to preserve his gengar as long as possible.

 

[Cowboy Dan]

yeah you're right that variant of bliss could sweep the whole team if it made it to last poke, although I'm not sure cb tar would help much since it's not often that poke makes it to late game. Some solutions I guess could be go back to bkc's dugtrio idea, but not sure what to put it over. Alternatively you could put about 36 speed EVs into pert so it can outspeed and get off a toxic against last poke bliss, although that's also pretty iffy.

 

[Typhlito]

Hp metagross could actually work over tar with meteor mash/hp grass(or fire)/explosion/pursuit since its able to hit gengar and still threaten physical mons besides fortress and skarm. This set is bulky enough to tank a jolly dugtrio eq while knocking it out. It outspeeds no speed blissey so it can either threaten it with a meteor mash or boom. It just wouldnt be able to switch in directly due to flamethrower but its a viable option.

 

[Cloudscape]

The problem with this though is that he would have a hard time breaking blissey and snorlax (eq variant) without some kind of physical mon. I dont think it would be a good idea for him to go full special tar unless he adds another physical mon.

This is the exact problem that I ran into when using a Special Tyranitar set. The only obvious benefit it gave me was immediate Gengar/Ghost removal. I found this to be far less useful in comparison to the switching and impact that the Choice Banded variant provided.