np: ORAS OU Suspect Process, Round 3 - Ghosts [Giratina-O remains in Ubers - check the OP]

[WishMaker Ace]

Some calcs for thoughts.

252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Metagross Ice Punch vs. 248 HP / 248+ Def Giratina-O: 170-202 (33.7 - 40.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

252 Atk Mega Lopunny High Jump Kick vs. 248 HP / 248+ Def Giratina-O: 159-187 (31.6 - 37.1%) -- 83.8% chance to 3HKO

252 SpA Life Orb Landorus Hidden Power Ice vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Giratina-O: 156-185 (31 - 36.7%) -- 65.2% chance to 3HKO

252 SpA Mega Manectric Hidden Power Ice vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Giratina-O: 136-160 (27 - 31.8%) -- guaranteed 4HKO

252+ Atk Choice Band Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 248 HP / 248+ Def Giratina-O: 169-201 (33.5 - 39.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

+6 252+ Atk Technician Mega Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 248 HP / 248+ Def Giratina-O: 346-408 (68.7 - 81.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Icy Wind vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Giratina-O: 178-210 (35.3 - 41.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

252+ SpA Mega Charizard Y Fire Blast vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Giratina-O in Sun: 170-201 (33.7 - 39.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Play Rough vs. 248 HP / 248+ Def Giratina-O: 390-458 (77.5 - 91%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ Atk Bisharp Sucker Punch vs. 248 HP / 248+ Def Giratina-O: 204-240 (40.5 - 47.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

252+ Atk Bisharp Knock Off vs. 248 HP / 248+ Def Giratina-O: 164-194 (32.6 - 38.5%) -- 97.9% chance to 3HKO

+2 252+ Atk Bisharp Knock Off vs. 248 HP / 248+ Def Giratina-O: 326-386 (64.8 - 76.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ Atk Life Orb Excadrill Iron Head vs. 248 HP / 248+ Def Giratina-O: 140-165 (27.8 - 32.8%) -- guaranteed 4HKO

252+ SpA Choice Specs Adaptability Weedle Moonblast vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Giratina-O: 3072-3616 (610.7 - 718.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Jokes for days.

252 Atk Landorus-T Stone Edge vs. 248 HP / 248+ Def Giratina-O: 85-101 (16.8 - 20%) -- possible 5HKO



I find Giratina-O in OU skeptical, but we'll see how this goes. I am leaning on pro-OU in the meantime since it may bring some good changes to the Meta.
inb4 Sableye-M is replaced by Giratina-O in Stall

 

[QuickBH]

Giratina-OU counters completely unbalanced Pokemon such as Thundurus, Starmie, Keldeo, Mega Metagross, and Slowbro. It loses to Bisharp and maybe Mega Scizor because type chart.

Since Infernape benefits from all of these, I say un-ban. Giratina-O in bulky offense 5 life.

 

[Srn]

I mean so right off the bat here's all the shit gira-o checks/counters...

Breloom
Celebi
Char-y
Excadrill
Mega Gallade
Gliscor
Heatran
JIrachi
Keldeo
Lando-T
Lando-i
mega manectric
manaphy
Mega metagross
Mew
Raikou
Rotom-w
mega scizor
skarm
slowbro
starmie
Thundurus
mega venu
alakazam
diggersby
hawlucha
mega cross
mega cham
terrakion
torn-t
victini
volcarona

As far as what checks it

mega audino
clefable
mandibuzz
mega altaria

I think one major flaw people are overlooking is its base 90 speed. while all its other stats are amazing and what not, if you want this thing to actually check much you need investment in hp, meaning this thing won't be too fast. Bisharp, mamo, and other things around there will probably be able to outspeed most variants, if not atleast the bulky ones. Thus, if tina is rly only gonna be catching them on the switch-in with wisp.

Overall, being able to check this much crap is a boon for literally every playstyle. having such a wide movepool, most notably aura sphere letting it nail every steel type bar scizor, is going to help it tear holes in any team. We're gonna be seeing a lot more mandibuzz and audino from here on out....

Crotina is also beating clefable without Cm, so you have to be able to atleast boost alongside it to be able to claim to counter it.

As far as balancing the meta goes, I think that its going to end up a lot like aegislash (strictly in terms of metagame development) Everything is going to end up centered around it, as being such a mindless catch-all pokemon to literally 2/3 of the meta is pretty tempting NOT to run. Thus, teams are going to have to lure, pressure, and run sub-par options in order to beat this thing.
I could very well be wrong, as only actual testing can prove the truth, but OU is one way or the other in for some serious change.

(sry for my last post haunter ><)

 

[Jaroda]

I think there are enough things to keep it in check.

• Mega Lopunny has Scrappy and is immune to Shadow Sneak. HJK + Fake Out does well over 50%.
• Mega Gardevoir can outspeed any variant, and Giratina needs Max Adamant to have a 50% chance to OHKO with SR and Shadow Sneak.
• Chansey. Max Attack Dragon Claw, it's strongest physical move against it, is a 3HKO. Without Leftovers or recovery, Chansey can easily whittle it with Toxic and Seismic Toss.
• LO Hydreigon resists Ghost, is faster, and OHKO's with Draco Meteor outside of max SpD builds.
• Garchomp, especially SD Lum vairant
  
• Tyranitar has great mixed bulk, and CB Pursuit/Crunch can OHKO many depending on the EVs.
• Toxic in general.

What I love is how many matches are so dependent on how you EV Giratina. It really is a diverse and threatening beast even without item options. It's HP is so damn good, you choose what to check with your sperad, and it's speed is low enough to be revenged by many. I'm excited honestly.

 

[ginganinja]

Without Leftovers or recovery, Chansey can easily whittle it with Toxic and Seismic Toss.

Jukain is that you?

 

[KillSeven]

April 1st is in 2 days, guys....

No, but really. There's absolutely no reason for this thing to ever even be considered in OU. Especially after less broken threats have been banned in the past and especially after some of the arguements many of the users on this site have used to ban said pokemon. The main arguement being "over-centralization".

In case some of you have forgotten, here is Giratina's Analysis posted around February of last year.

"Giratina-O's immense base 150 HP and decent base 100 defenses, coupled with its six resistances and three immunities, grant it ample opportunity to switch in and wreak havoc with its deceptively powerful Griseous Orb-boosted STAB moves. Due to its neutrality to Stealth Rock and immunity to all other entry hazards courtesy of Levitate, Giratina-O has no trouble assuming the role of a reliable Defog user for its team. Moreover, it boasts the ability to defeat nearly every common Taunt user in Ubers one-on-one, and it cannot be trapped by the ubiquitous Mega Gengar. Finally, its ability to check many of the dangerous physically based boosting sweepers within the Ubers metagame, as well as its access to invaluable utility moves including Shadow Sneak, Dragon Tail, and Will-O-Wisp, should not be understated."

Doesn't sound over-centralizing at all...Ya, let's unban it. Because that makes so much sense. >.>

 

[pharaohcalvin]

I mean so right off the bat here's all the shit gira-o checks/counters...


As far as what checks it


I think one major flaw people are overlooking is its base 90 speed. while all its other stats are amazing and what not, if you want this thing to actually check much you need investment in hp, meaning this thing won't be too fast. Bisharp, mamo, and other things around there will probably be able to outspeed most variants, if not atleast the bulky ones. Thus, if tina is rly only gonna be catching them on the switch-in with wisp.

Overall, being able to check this much crap is a boon for literally every playstyle. having such a wide movepool, most notably aura sphere letting it nail every steel type bar scizor, is going to help it tear holes in any team. We're gonna be seeing a lot more mandibuzz and audino from here on out....

Crotina is also beating clefable without Cm, so you have to be able to atleast boost alongside it to be able to claim to counter it.

As far as balancing the meta goes, I think that its going to end up a lot like aegislash (strictly in terms of metagame development) Everything is going to end up centered around it, as being such a mindless catch-all pokemon to literally 2/3 of the meta is pretty tempting NOT to run. Thus, teams are going to have to lure, pressure, and run sub-par options in order to beat this thing.
I could very well be wrong, as only actual testing can prove the truth, but OU is one way or the other in for some serious change.

(sry for my last post haunter ><)

Well yes, 90 base speed is not that great uninvested, it still doesn't change the fact that things like Bisharp and Mamoswine will have huge issues swapping into it to begin with. Ironically, partly because of that Aura Sphere you mentioned. Well, yes they can come in and threaten Gira, if they can get in, but really to do that safely something would have to die. In summery, to me, base 90 speed isn't a huge issue if things can't swap into you. Finally, if you are correct, the meta ends up a lot like Aegislash's meta, with one pokemon controling it the meta too that degree, then I will stand against allowing it into OU. Because to me, that is unhealthy. Of course, we still need to see if it does so.

 

[thepkmnprofessor]

I've never gotten to play OU with Giratina-O but just looking at its base stats, access to priority, WoW, phasing and ability to spin block I can't help but think it's an Ubers Pokémon. I'll definitely check it out on the suspect ladder but I feel like perhaps Aegislash was more deserving of this suspect test. Excited to see what this pokemon brings to ORAS OU.

 

[Temporelucis]

Is this for real? We'll finally get another spin blocker not named Sableye/Gengar.
Ferrothorn deals with it pretty well because the worst thing it can do it's burn it, sub/hp fire could be a thing tho.

252+ SpA Griseous Orb Giratina-O Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 168 SpD Ferrothorn: 124-147 (35.2 - 41.7%) -- 80.8% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

 

[G-Von]

The OU Council would not make a joke regarding something like this. If they were serious about unbanning Kyurem-Black last generation, I see nothing wrong with this suspect at all. I'm all for the testing of Giratina-O since I believe there are numerous Uber mons that would be sustainable in the OU tier and I have to thank the OU Council for making this decision.

Now I haven't been active in quite some while due to school taking up my time but I think Gira-O will bring a positive influence to OU. It is forced to hold the Griseous Orb and although it cannot be Knocked Off, it still has no way of recovering HP so it can only take hits for so long. Thanks to the continual power creep, this will have a huge effect on Gira-O's tanking ability. Also, it has only low base power moves with the exception of Draco Meteor, so it won't be hitting too hard even with the GO-boosted attacks. And DM cuts its power in half so its going to have to get in and get out and its not like we have faster pokes that do the same already. I would say a lot of fairies are going to be easy switch ins for this mon since the only thing that realy hurts them would be ghost type moves and steels would work as well. People also need to realize that 120 base attacking stats is pretty solid, but isn't anything out of the ordinary. I just feel like people are so used to thinking cover legendaries are supposed to be quick banned regardless of their stats due to that high BST of 670 or 680 and this is a wonderful change of pace.

Now in terms of mons that will now have trouble facing Gira-O, the list seems like Keldeo, Lando(-T), Breloom, Celebi, Jirachi, Mega Gallade, Mega Medicham, Gyarados, Magnezone, Mega Manectric, Raikou, Mew, Scizor, Mega Slowbro, Rotom-W, Rotom-H, Thundurus, Mega Venusaur, and Zapdos among others in lower tiers that are used commonly in OU. I have some biases but I'm fucking thrilled Breloom, Thundurus, Mega Venusaur, Mega Metagross, and Jirachi are all going to suffer because those mons have always been a thorn in my side. At the moment I can see Mega Audino and/or (Mega) Audino being solid partners and answers to Giratina-O.

Let the hype train choo choo on.

 

[Undead32]

Quite frankly, I think throwing a monstrous mascot legend into OU is a really bad idea, mostly because, odds are, defensive teams are gonna get stronger instead of weaker.

Run a team with Giratina, Heatran, and a dark type like Umbreon, and you already have a terrifyingly strong defensive core. Giratina is immune to both fighting and ground, and resists water and bug, Heatran can eat fairy and bug moves like it's nobody's business, and Umbreon resists ghost and is a cleric.

The only Pokemon I can think of off the top of my head that would throw a wrench into this defensive core would be Greninja, but it got banned a couple of months ago, and Mega Lopunny, but if it gets burned it's basically dead weight.

This entire suspect test can be boiled down to "we don't want to ban a certain legendary so let's unban this other, potentially more terrifying legendary and hope everything works out in the end," and honestly it kinda makes me sad.

 

[QueenOfHax]

Stall is going to thrive. Not only does Giratina-O comfortably wall several powerful wallbreakers such as Megazard Y, Megagross and Keldeo, but its presence single-handedly turns Gothitelle, the most dangerous anti-stall mon in the tier, into a complete liability.
Other moderate threats to stall, such as Breloom, are going to become completely and utterly useless with this thing around (what's Breloom going to do against Giratina-O?).
It can Defog, spread burn, phaze and RestTalk with 150/100/100 defenses is a very viable form of recovery.
I expect the metagame to shift from HO to stall shoud Giratina-O be unbanned.

 

[UltiMario]

Man, it's like we're actually retesting Aegislash!

Except it's bulkier, faster, has less counters, invalidates twice as many Pokemon from being used, has a larger support movepool, better coverage, isn't as vulnerable to knock off, and actually has a consistent 680 BST rather than switching between 720 and 520 all at the very drastic cost of not being able to run Leftovers.

Seems fair enough.

 

[ryan]

Giratina becoming OU would undoubtedly be a very drastic metagame change, and I applaud the OU council for allowing it to be suspected. Everybody is concerned about team matchup and how terribly this affects high-level gameplay. Although you rarely auto-lose games based on team matchup, it certainly plays a heavy role in how games turn out. Releasing Giratina in the OU metagame would be a great way to limit the influence of team matchup. There are so many high-powered Mega Evolutions in OU, and it's simply impossible to cover them all. Giratina obviously doesn't cover everything on its own either. Megas such as Gyarados, Diancie, Charizard-X, and Gardevoir can not only defeat Giratina, but can also take advantage of it. Gyarados can be burned, and Gardevoir doesn't tank a Shadow Sneak very comfortably, but the former can be played around, especially with Substitute, and the latter can be well worth the damage if it means taking out something that might wall a few of the Pokemon on the rest of your team.

Giratina is a Pokemon you will certainly need to prepare for. We've never had anything quite like it in OU before. But in exchange for having to go out of your way to prepare for this one more threat, there are probably about 25 huge threats that we will no longer have to try to cover in five more slots. Do I think Giratina will be anything short of a top threat in OU? Of course not. Do I think it will help make OU a better metagame? Absolutely.

 

[BlueLobster]

For me, 150/100/100 defenses and access to great support moves such as Will-O-Wisp, Roar and Dragon Tail is too much for OU, especially coupled with 120 offenses and decent speed of 90. However, it has quite large 4MSS, as it lacks non RestTalk recovery, no reliable recovery, mediocre offensive typing, with weaknesses to common offensive types, although it does have some important resists and immunities. I'm on the fance on this one, it's stats to me really make me think ban, but then again the power creep of megas makes me unsure. Leaning towards keeping it banned, but I will be making my mind up on the suspect ladder.

 

[SketchUp]

So this might actually be a little bit early to post a core here but I just go ahead and post Klefki + Giratina.
Giratina has many good sets to use and one sets that might work is Resttalk with Dragon Tail. A pokemon that almost has perfect defensive synergy and gives great support with Spikes is Klefki. Giratina is immune to ground and resists fire while Klefki resists every weakness bar ghost, which is not that relevant in OU.

Klefki @ Leftovers
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Spikes
- Thunder Wave
- Heal Block
- Play Rough

I just went for physical defensive because Giratina already uses specially defensive but it can be switched I guess. Heal Block was a move I just slapped as filler because it helps with pokemon like Clefable and Rest Giratina while also shutting down leftovers recovery which helps because Spikes wears these pokemon down and with Heal Block they won't be able to heal this lost of HP up.

Giratina-Origin @ Griseous Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 232 HP / 252 SpD / 24 Spe
Calm Nature
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
- Dragon Tail
- Shadow Ball

I don't know if SpD or PDef is Giratina's best set but I just went for SpD because it helps more when switching into HP Ice Landorus, Specs Keldeo and Raikou, but like I said, this can be switched with Klefki. 24 Spe is enough to outspeed Rotom-W / Defensive Lando-T / Specs Magnezone. Rest helps staying healthy because many pokemon will try to wear you down by spamming multiple attacks that you need to switch into (for those who do not understand: if giratina is your main switchin for landorus, keldeo and thundurus, they will take you down together if you don't use rest) Sleep Talk has a 1/3 chance of giving you a +0 priority Dragon Tail which is very good in combination with the Spikes. It also does pretty decent chip damage because it is still a 60 BP move coming from a 120 atk stat

0 Atk Giratina Dragon Tail vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Keldeo: 70-84 (21.6 - 26%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 Atk Giratina Dragon Tail vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Landorus: 72-85 (22.5 - 26.6%) -- 23.7% chance to 4HKO
0 Atk Giratina Dragon Tail vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Thundurus: 87-103 (29.1 - 34.5%) -- 100% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery

Did I just ruin the suspect ladder by posting this evil core? :]

 

[Uphaze]

Hi everybody!

My personal analysis is the following.

Giratina-O is a huge polyvalent Pokémon, which doesn't have a lot of answers: Clefable is probably its best, while you have Mega Audino and Wigglytuff (which can be at +2 after a Defog then), but I can't see another.
The reality is that even if it will give more interest to the OU metagame, it will raise the stall metagame, because 90 is outspeeded by probably any sweeper in OU (even with Shadow Sneak priority), and because of its HUGE defensive stats, which implies that it would be a GREAT alternative for Mega Sableye: it can burn anything, it can Defog, it has priority, it can set up Calm Minds (and be a great Restalker)...
It will so probably make longer the battle durations, which is... not the best thing for me. That's why I don't think it's the best idea for it to be suspect tested, but I would dream if the following one would be suspect.

I think that this thing would be, in my opinion, a better suspect test, because:
- It has more answers in OU than Kyurem Black: Sylveon and AV Azumarill blocks it, while they are KOd by Iron Head/Fusion Bolt from a physical Kyurem Black
- It's more easy to revenge kill it than KyuB, because of its lower Defense stat: most of its revenge killers are physical. I think to Breloom, Conkeldurr, Scizor, Talonflame, Secret Sword Keldeo, Superpower LandoScarf, which hardly revenge kills Kyurem Black, while Kyurem White takes more damages after that (Latios/tias are great RKs for it too, but do the same work for Kyurem Black)
- And especially, it would say a BETTER (and maybe the best) "F**k" to the stall metagame (especially at level 50), as you can see in the following calcs:
252 SpA Life Orb Turboblaze Kyurem-W Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Eviolite Chansey: 140-166 (39.2 - 46.4%) -- 24.6% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Life Orb Turboblaze Kyurem-W Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Skarmory: 161-191 (93.6 - 111%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Life Orb Turboblaze Kyurem-W Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Slowbro: 208-247 (102.9 - 122.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Life Orb Turboblaze Kyurem-W Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Clefable: 133-157 (65.8 - 77.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Turboblaze Kyurem-W Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Tyranitar in Sand: 208-250 (100.4 - 120.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Life Orb Turboblaze Kyurem-W Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Heatran: 151-179 (76.2 - 90.4%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Life Orb Turboblaze Kyurem-W Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Mega Venusaur: 156-187 (83.4 - 100%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Life Orb Turboblaze Kyurem-W Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Amoonguss: 203-242 (91.8 - 109.5%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Life Orb Turboblaze Kyurem-W Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 168+ SpD Ferrothorn: 153-182 (84.5 - 100.5%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Life Orb Turboblaze Kyurem-W Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Gliscor: 426-504 (234 - 276.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO

And don't forget that this thing takes 25% on SR ;)

But anyway: I can be wrong in my opinion, that's game, and I think Gira will bring new colours in OU!

 

[BlazeLatias]

Quite frankly, I think throwing a monstrous mascot legend into OU is a really bad idea, mostly because, odds are, defensive teams are gonna get stronger instead of weaker.

Run a team with Giratina, Heatran, and a dark type like Umbreon, and you already have a terrifyingly strong defensive core. Giratina is immune to both fighting and ground, and resists water and bug, Heatran can eat fairy and bug moves like it's nobody's business, and Umbreon resists ghost and is a cleric.

The only Pokemon I can think of off the top of my head that would throw a wrench into this defensive core would be Greninja, but it got banned a couple of months ago, and Mega Lopunny, but if it gets burned it's basically dead weight.

Whats wrong with defensivwe teams getting better?stall took quite a big hit with the rise of lando i and other wallbreakers that threTen stall. Giri could potentialy greatly help defensive teams out for this reason. Also nobody uses umbreon on stall. With faries umbra its p bad as a cleric in ou. Besides im pretty sure cm mega diancie breaks that core you had as a example. Anyways this could be a interesting thing so see in ou so im loooking forrward to test gira out but he might also be too much for ou to handle akin to aegislash was.

 

[havokchomp123]

Ok so i decided to come up with some possible sets for Giratina to run in OU and here's what I came up with. Keep in mind that these are just some sample sets for a giratina in OU.

Bulky Wall breaker
Item: orb
ability: Levitate
Nature: Rash/Naughty
Ev's: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Sp. Atk / (A better set would probably be more bulk investment, but let's just go with max attacking stats to get an idea of giratina's natural bulk and invested attacking power)
Moves:
Draco Meteor
Shadow Force
Iron head/Iron tail
Aura Sphere/Earthquake/shadow sneak

Draco Meteor and Shadow Force are going to be stables on a set for giratina. Iron head is needed for fairy coverage. I slashed Iron head over Iron tail for obvious reasons. Aura sphere gives Giratina a lot of coverage against dark and steel types. Earthquake can cover steel types such as heatran and magnezone as well as taking care of Klefki and pesky electric types. Earthquake also has more power than Aura sphere, but has less coverage too. Shadow sneak is an option for giratina to revenge kill pokemon such as Gengar, Gardevior, and other psychic types, especially if they're already weakened.

Bulky Defog
Item: orb
Ability: Levitate
Nature: Impish
EV's: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Moves:
Defog
Will-o-wisp
Shadow force
Rest

Defog, will-o-wisp, and rest don't need much explaining; however i thought that shadow force should be put on this set, since without it, this thing is complete taunt bait and it can dwiddle down opponents with will-o-wisp damage. Rest talk could be used, but i can't find a good slot for it.

Satan Crocune
Item: Orb
Ability: Levitate
Nature: Bold
EV's: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD.
Moves:
Calm mind
Shadow ball/Will-o-wisp
Rest talk
Rest

I saw some mentions about a rest talk set, but I don't think it would be all that great. I mean sure, giratina does have incredible defensive stats and a pretty handy defensive typing, but i feel that it faces some competition with mega sableye, who has a more reliable recovery, less weaknesses, and magic bouce. Of course giratina has higher HP and special attack as well as having the benefit of not taking up a mega slot, so i suppose this set could have some merit. Calm mind, rest, and rest talk are the obligatory moves. Will-o-wisp can be used if you want to cripple physical attackers, but without an attacking move, you become complete taunt bait.

I think a wall breaking set suits giratina best in the Metagame. It's support sets seem to have problem's since they don't have a reliable recovery or leftovers for that matter.

 

[Undead32]

Whats wrong with defensivwe teams getting better?stall took quite a big hit with the rise of lando i and other wallbreakers that threTen stall. Giri could potentialy greatly help defensive teams out for this reason. Also nobody uses umbreon on stall. With faries umbra its p bad as a cleric in ou. Besides im pretty sure cm mega diancie breaks that core you had as a example. Anyways this could be a interesting thing so see in ou so im loooking forrward to test gira out but he might also be too much for ou to handle akin to aegislash was.

Because most defensive teams ARE stall teams. All three of these Pokemon can spread status (IE Toxic) and then phase Pokemon out, plus Heatran can set up stealth rocks which adds MORE chip damage to the end of each turn. Besides, Mega Diancie won't really mean shit if you're also running something that ran bullet punch.

 

[Magcargo]

I find this to be quite an interesting suspect test. Giratina-O checks a huge number of threats in the metagame, such as Zard Y and Keldeo, but also looses to a number of Pokemon as well, namely the vast number of fairy types in OU, such as Clefable. That being said, its huge movepool can allow it to defeat a number of its speculated checks (It has shadow sneak for the Lati twins, Aura Sphere for Bisharp, Will-O-Wisp for Tyranitar, etc.). Personally, I think Giratina-O will end up being both the best hazard remover and Spinblocker in OU (you can customize it to which function you want it to have of your team). It can easily defeat and remove many common SR Users such as Heatran, Landorus-T, and Jirachi, while also defeating Starmie and non-Mold Breaker excadrill and keeping nearly all defoggers in check (Latios loses to Shadow Sneak, Skarmory loses to Shadow Ball, etc). Personally, I don't think its inclusion will help stall as much as it will help offense, but thats just my opinion.

It suffers from 3 major issues that I believe may keep it in OU: 4MSS, its mediocre speed tier, and Its inability to hold an item. Giratina-O's 4MSS is a big issue simply because it prevents it from defeating as many of its counters as it would like to as well as performing several roles at the same time. It can't always run moves like rest, shadow sneak, HP Fire and Aura sphere on the same set which is a huge bummer. Its speed tier is pretty awful as well, as it means giratina-O is checked quite easily by pokemon such as Latios, Kyurem-B, and Gengar unless it opts to run Shadow sneak or tailwind. Its inability to hold an item is perhaps its largest flaw, as it can't hold leftovers, Choice Scarf, LO, etc. This leads to numerous other issues, such as it being either too weak, too slow, or being worn down too fast depending on its ev spread and moves.

Despite these issues, I feel Giratina-O will remain banned simply due to the fact that it makes several OU Pokemon to become far worse and borderline useless (Keldeo, Terrakion, Jirachi, Landorus-I, and Starmie are just a few examples). It will definitely be interesting and quite fun to play the current OU metagame with its inclusion however.

 

[Diablo_Cow]

Sorry if this is considered spam, but can we actually discuss possible sets? Whether they be copy pasted from ubers or specifically made? Seems like discussion would actually be discussed if we weren't throwing around calcs without relation to the rest of the moves Giratina could carry on a set.

 

[QueenOfHax]

Hi everybody!

My personal analysis is the following.

Giratina-O is a huge polyvalent Pokémon, which doesn't have a lot of answers: Clefable is probably its best, while you have Mega Audino and Wigglytuff (which can be at +2 after a Defog then), but I can't see another.
The reality is that even if it will give more interest to the OU metagame, it will raise the stall metagame, because 90 is outspeeded by probably any sweeper in OU (even with Shadow Sneak priority), and because of its HUGE defensive stats, which implies that it would be a GREAT alternative for Mega Sableye: it can burn anything, it can Defog, it has priority, it can set up Calm Minds (and be a great Restalker)...
It will so probably make longer the battle durations, which is... not the best thing for me. That's why I don't think it's the best idea for it to be suspect tested, but I would dream if the following one would be suspect.

I think that this thing would be, in my opinion, a better suspect test, because:
- It has more answers in OU than Kyurem Black: Sylveon and AV Azumarill blocks it, while they are KOd by Iron Head/Fusion Bolt from a physical Kyurem Black
- It's more easy to revenge kill it than KyuB, because of its lower Defense stat: most of its revenge killers are physical. I think to Breloom, Conkeldurr, Scizor, Talonflame, Secret Sword Keldeo, Superpower LandoScarf, which hardly revenge kills Kyurem Black, while Kyurem White takes more damages after that (Latios/tias are great RKs for it too, but do the same work for Kyurem Black)
- And especially, it would say a BETTER (and maybe the best) "F**k" to the stall metagame (especially at level 50), as you can see in the following calcs:
252 SpA Life Orb Turboblaze Kyurem-W Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Eviolite Chansey: 140-166 (39.2 - 46.4%) -- 24.6% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Life Orb Turboblaze Kyurem-W Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Skarmory: 161-191 (93.6 - 111%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Life Orb Turboblaze Kyurem-W Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Slowbro: 208-247 (102.9 - 122.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Life Orb Turboblaze Kyurem-W Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Clefable: 133-157 (65.8 - 77.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Turboblaze Kyurem-W Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Tyranitar in Sand: 208-250 (100.4 - 120.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Life Orb Turboblaze Kyurem-W Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Heatran: 151-179 (76.2 - 90.4%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Life Orb Turboblaze Kyurem-W Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Mega Venusaur: 156-187 (83.4 - 100%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Life Orb Turboblaze Kyurem-W Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Amoonguss: 203-242 (91.8 - 109.5%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Life Orb Turboblaze Kyurem-W Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 168+ SpD Ferrothorn: 153-182 (84.5 - 100.5%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Life Orb Turboblaze Kyurem-W Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Gliscor: 426-504 (234 - 276.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO

And don't forget that this thing takes 25% on SR ;)

But anyway: I can be wrong in my opinion, that's game, and I think Gira will bring new colours in OU!

Kyurem-W has been found to be broken in monotype, a metagame where you're forced to run it along 5 ice types. Now imagine what happens when you give it real team support. Yeah, it's best not to discuss a Kyu-W suspect test any longer. This is not the place anyway.

 

[BlazeLatias]

Because most defensive teams ARE stall teams. All three of these Pokemon can spread status (IE Toxic) and then phase Pokemon out, plus Heatran can set up stealth rocks which adds MORE chip damage to the end of each turn. Besides, Mega Diancie won't really mean shit if you're also running something that ran bullet punch.

If your running a stall team the oodds of you running bullet punch are next too none so ii dont understand what your talking about. Besides the metta needs more diverse teams so more stalls not THAT bad of a thing.

Sorry for spelling on phone

 

[havokchomp123]

I find this to be quite an interesting suspect test. Giratina-O checks a huge number of threats in the metagame, such as Zard Y and Keldeo, but also looses to a number of Pokemon as well, namely the vast number of fairy types in OU, such as Clefable. That being said, its huge movepool can allow it to defeat a number of its speculated checks (It has shadow sneak for the Lati twins, Aura Sphere for Bisharp, Will-O-Wisp for Tyranitar, etc.). Personally, I think Giratina-O will end up being both the best hazard remover and Spinblocker in OU (you can customize it to which function you want it to have of your team). It can easily defeat and remove many common SR Users such as Heatran, Landorus-T, and Jirachi, while also defeating Starmie and non-Mold Breaker excadrill and keeping nearly all defoggers in check (Latios loses to Shadow Sneak, Skarmory loses to shadow Ball, etc). Personally, I don't think its inclusion will help stall as much as it will help offense, but thats just my opinion.

It suffers from 3 major issues that I believe may keep it in OU: 4MSS,its mediocre speed tier, and Its lack of item,. Giratina-O's 4MSS is a big issue simply because it prevents it from defeating as many of its counters as it would like to as well as performing several roles at the same time. It can't always run moves like rest, shadow sneak, HP Fire and Aura sphere on the same set which is a huge bummer. Its speed tier is pretty awful as well, as it means giratina-O is checked quite easily by pokemon such as Latios, Kyurem-B, and Gengar unless it opts to run Shadow sneak or tailwind. Its inability to hold an item is perhaps its largest flaw, as it can't hold leftovers, Choice Scarf, LO, etc. This leads to numerous other issues, such as it being either too weak, too slow, or being worn down too fast depending on its ev spread and moves.

Despite these issues, I feel Giratina-O will remain banned simply due to the fact that it makes several OU Pokemon to become far worse and borderline useless (Keldeo, Terrakion, Jirachi, Landorus-I, and Starmie are just a few examples). It will definitely be interesting and quite fun to play the current OU metagame with its inclusion however.

I agree with you on everything except the last part. I don't feel that one pokemon, giratina, will make keldeo and all those other pokemon borderline useless. The only time that happens is if a pokemon is introduced into the metagame and completely outclasses an already existing pokemon in the metagame (I.E Gallade>Medicham or Giratina>Hydreigon).