Metagame np: Stage 5 - Eruption (Cameruptite and Typhlosion Banned)

[astroboy]

on typh im thinking ban typh has always been an amazing mon that has become only better with the recent tier shifts (particularly gatr leaving) and its dream world ability of flash fire being released. typhlosion is now its own check, and has a quite a bit more switch-in opportunities than before. its speed tier is great, but leaves a lot to be desired due to it naturally being outsped by things like tauros and archeops. if typh's only set were its choiced sets, however the will-o-wisp+eq set with charcoal has definitely pushed it over the edge so that it can cripple physical attackers like hariyama, get residual damage on walls like mantine, while removing ninetales from the already small list of safe switch ins. yes, typh does need hazard control to do its best, but it still performs amazingly without it and is the tier's premier wallbreaker. imo typh is a great mon that just got set over the edge with flash fire, and i'll be voting ban.

however, i've used mega camerupt quite extensively on the ladder and i just really dont think its worth of ban. hits really hard, but any well built team can easily handle it due to its exploitable water and ground weaknesses and garbage speed. i really cant emphasize enough how hard this thing hits honestly, it has amazing coverage, a great ability, and decent bulk, but this is all held back to any water type can check it. honestly, if your team is weak to camerupt you can just slap a mantine or prinplup (imo run 16 speed evs on prinp to outpace 252 cam after its mega evolved, and on mantine to outspeed it before it mega evolved) on your team and youre golden. it really doesnt have any counters (except the god vibrava), but this doesnt equate to broken. its low speed isnt helped by the fact that its so easily pressured by the aforementioned water types and susceptible to all entry hazards. i think it has a decent impact on the meta, making water types more common, keeping other things like klinklang and samurott from overrunning the tier. so yeah, no ban on mega camerupt.

 

[Aberforth]

I'm leaning no ban on both, mega camerupt is one of the slowest things in the tier, and having a 4x weakness along with no reliable recovery means that this is very easy to kill, although switching in on one of its attacks is not an easy thing to do. General fire spam checks can normally handle this mon, and it can be revenge killed by just about every water type in the tier.

Typhlosion is a very good mon with two decent abilities, but it's fairly easy to handle with generic fire spam checks like Hariyama and Mantine. It doesn't hit very hard outside of full HP specs eruption, which means it can never use its coverage moves without good prediction skills, and unlike other common choice'd mons, it lacks a momentum grabbing spammable move like U-turn and volt switch.

Both mons feel like they can be handled with what is in the NU tier, even if they are very threatening.

 

[Rumor]

my opinion doesn't really matter because i'm relatively new to the tier, but here's what i've found from laddering:

Cameruptite: Not Broken. Going through the ladder, i've realized that Camerupt can't really switch in on much. Being vulnerable to all hazards really puts a damper on it. Especially since there are mons like Mantine, Rhydon, Claydol, SpD Uxie and Regirock running around the tier. Its honestly a plexi-glass cannon, being how it hits extremely hard (when it can), but is easily worn down by common mons.

Typhlosion: Not Broken. Ah yes, the new flash fire god. Typhlosion wasn't really all it was hyped out to be when it gained this new ability. Choice Specs Typhlosion is typically seen around 90% of the time, with the other 10% being Scarf/LO, meaning its somewhat predictable to play around. A lot of mons can honestly stand up to this mon and take its hits to the dome, such as Thick Fat/AV Hariyama, Lanturn, Rhydon (providing it doesnt get hp grassed and Mantine. Although being a mon that can fire off free explosions, it is also worn down by one of the most common moves in the game: Stealth Rock. If this mon doesnt have hazard removal, one of its most prominent and mostly used moves (Eruption) is soon nullified.

All in all, just have a general fire-spam check and rocks, and you should be good to go.

 

[Fortune]

my opinion doesn't really matter because i'm relatively new to the tier, but here's what i've found from laddering:

Cameruptite: Not Broken. Going through the ladder, i've realized that Camerupt can't really switch in on much. Being vulnerable to all hazards really puts a damper on it. Especially since there are mons like Mantine, Rhydon, Claydol, SpD Uxie and Regirock running around the tier. Its honestly a plexi-glass cannon, being how it hits extremely hard (when it can), but is easily worn down by common mons.

ah yes, rhydon and regirock, the infamous camerupt counters!! everything you mentioned gets (at least) 2hko'd by a stab move bar mantine which is bopped by an ez hp electric prediction. you also seem to be overlooking the fact that once camerupt is inside it just destroys teams with incredible ease. almost no team is safe from camerupt with proper trick room support, not to mention a good player can easily generate free switches on non TR teams which basically means gg.

also learned that 70/100/105 defenses = glass cannon lol

 

[Rumor]

alright, might as well try and defend myself

"ah yes, rhydon and regirock, the infamous camerupt counters!! everything you mentioned gets (at least) 2hko'd by a stab move bar mantine which is bopped by an ez hp electric prediction. you also seem to be overlooking the fact that once camerupt is inside it just destroys teams with incredible ease. almost no team is safe from camerupt with proper trick room support, not to mention a good player can easily generate free switches on non TR teams which basically means gg.

also learned that 70/100/105 defenses = glass cannon lol"


did i say rhydon and regirock were counters? no i said that they were common mons that would typically switch into a camerupt. As you can clearly see by everyone else who has posted in this thread, they would say the same thing. If they run HP Elec, it loses to Quag n_n. You also mentioned that "almost no team is safe from camerupt with proper trick room support, not to mention a good player can easily generate free switches on non TR teams which basically means gg." So basically what you're saying is that you need trick room support for camerupt to be good. alright i can see where you're coming from

also idk what you think plexi glass is, but its pretty fuckin sturdy. However plexi glass is broken but stuff like... idk... rocks (c what i did there)?

 

[Fortune]

alright, might as well try and defend myself

did i say rhydon and regirock were counters? no i said that they were common mons that would typically switch into a camerupt. As you can clearly see by everyone else who has posted in this thread, they would say the same thing. If they run HP Elec, it loses to Quag n_n. You also mentioned that "almost no team is safe from camerupt with proper trick room support, not to mention a good player can easily generate free switches on non TR teams which basically means gg." So basically what you're saying is that you need trick room support for camerupt to be good. alright i can see where you're coming from

if you consider rhydon a safe switch into mega camerupt you are basically assuming your opponent has no prediction skills whatsoever, not to mention it could just as easily be burned without prediction.

252+ SpA Sheer Force Mega Camerupt Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Quagsire: 322-379 (81.7 - 96.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

0 SpA Quagsire Scald vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mega Camerupt: 232-280 (67.4 - 81.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

yes, it sure does lose to quag doesnt it!!

and by no means did i say camerupt requires trick room, that was just a blatant misunderstanding on your part. if you reread my post you would see that alternatively you could generate free switches and basically obtain the same exact result.

 

[carrilero]

Camerupt: Ban- This thing hits like a truck and has very few counters in this tier. Its dual STAB means that it has neutral coverage on almost everything in the tier, not to mention the fact it can set up Stealth Rocks to support the rest of your team. It has enough bulk to live some uninvested water type attacks (see above) and hit back hard. This thing is too good.

Typhlosion: No Ban- This thing. Whilst it is powerful, it lacks a lot of the things Camerupt has like dual STAB, Stealth Rocks and bulk not to mention a handful of other weaknesses including Stealth Rocks, Priority attacks and a shallow movepool. Lots of people in this thread are using its ability Flash Fire as an advantage but it is outclassed by Blaze as the main reason that Typhlosion is so good is that at full you get a powerful Eruption but then when you are weakened you fire off a Blaze Fire Blast. Lastly, if Typhlosion was to move up, it would be completely outclassed in the RU meta as, thanks to myself, it is E rank in their viability rankings. The last thing I want of Typhlosion is for it to become another Ambipom.

 

[QueenOfLuvdiscs]

Typhlosion: No Ban- This thing. Whilst it is powerful, it lacks a lot of the things Camerupt has like dual STAB, Stealth Rocks and bulk not to mention a handful of other weaknesses including Stealth Rocks, Priority attacks and a shallow movepool. Lots of people in this thread are using its ability Flash Fire as an advantage but it is outclassed by Blaze as the main reason that Typhlosion is so good is that at full you get a powerful Eruption but then when you are weakened you fire off a Blaze Fire Blast. Lastly, if Typhlosion was to move up, it would be completely outclassed in the RU meta as, thanks to myself, it is E rank in their viability rankings. The last thing I want of Typhlosion is for it to become another Ambipom.

This whole reasoning as to why Typhlosion shouldn't be banned is, quite frankly, utter trash. Saying that Typhlosion doesn't get Stealth Rock as well having a weakness to Stealth Rock means it is bad compared to Mega Camerupt is not a good argument. One abiltity isn't outclassed by another, they are both good depending on what you need on your team; a complete fire immunity or a late game breaker. Finally, that last point has got to be the worst argument I have seen for anything to not be banned. We suspect stuff that is potentially unhealthy for the tier it is in currently; not how it will perform in other tiers. Yes, it may be outclassed by the other Fire-types in RU, but who cares? Just don't use it and it'll remain in BL3 if it does get banned.

Comparing Typhlosion to Ambipom...really?

 

[carrilero]

This whole reasoning as to why Typhlosion shouldn't be banned is, quite frankly, utter trash. Saying that Typhlosion doesn't get Stealth Rock as well having a weakness to Stealth Rock means it is bad compared to Mega Camerupt is not a good argument. One abiltity isn't outclassed by another, they are both good depending on what you need on your team; a complete fire immunity or a late game breaker. Finally, that last point has got to be the worst argument I have seen for anything to not be banned. We suspect stuff that is potentially unhealthy for the tier it is in currently; not have it will perform in other tiers. Yes, it maybe outclassed by the other Fire-types in RU, but who cares? Just don't use it and it'll remain in BL3 if it does get banned.

Comparing Typhlosion to Ambipom...really?

Maybe my last point was a little desperate but my point still stands. Flash Fire really does nothing to help Typhlosion. Pretty much the only other fire spammer in NU at the moment is Camerupt which destroys Typhlosion 1 v 1. Also, its weakness to Stealth Rocks is a major reason why it shouldn't be banned. Everytime it switches in to them it weakens Eruption, Typhlosion's main niche.

 

[QueenOfLuvdiscs]

Maybe my last point was a little desperate but my point still stands. Flash Fire really does nothing to help Typhlosion. Pretty much the only other fire spammer in NU at the moment is Camerupt which destroys Typhlosion 1 v 1. Also, its weakness to Stealth Rocks is a major reason why it shouldn't be banned. Everytime it switches in to them it weakens Eruption, Typhlosion's main niche.

Flash Fire gives Typhlosion a temporary boost to it's powerful Fire STABs as well as giving your team a fire immunity, which can be pretty helpful at times and yes, Typhlosion; the MegaRupt counter.
252 SpA Choice Specs Typhlosion Eruption (150 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mega Camerupt: 156-183 (45.3 - 53.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
MegaRupt cannot even switch in to a Specs Eruption as it gets 2hko'd with any prior damage done to it and Typhlosion is not gonna stay in on MegaRupt anyways, so saying it loses 1v1 is completely irrelevant.

It having a Stealth Rock weakness does not make it any less of a powerhouse which still hits incredibly hard. Even after 1 switch in with Stealth Rock up, Eruption still outpowers Fire Blast, letting it still be a spammable move. You also seem to be assuming that these hazards are gonna permanently there and that Typh is always gonna switch in on them. Even if Eruption is weakened, you still have a STAB base 110 move getting fired off, which is still gonna dent everything.

 

[Teddeh]

I don't think typhlosion should be banned, however I have to agree with QOL in saying that the reasons for banning or not banning these two pokemon so far have been rather weak and are literally based on whether you may like using the pokemon or not like using it. I'd like to note that for future reference on anyone posting their reasons that:

• Being bad in RU
• Your team got 6-0'd because you didn't have a fire resist
• Comparing camerupt to typhlosion in which you prefer

are NOT good reasons to which either should be banned or not banned.
For this suspect test to be effective, you need to look at the pokemon individually on how they are in NU. I'm kinda sick of looking at very biased responses from which they want a pokemon banned not because it should be banned but becuase they don't like it or because they don't want to keep using fire checks, it's silly. The same goes for reasons not to ban a pokemon in this specific test, it's a case of people prefer to use it and may not like using other fire types. Try to be as neutral as possible when giving reasons or it will just mean that every suspect test is a popularity contest by which the more popular pokemon stay because people like using them or not like facing them because they are good pokemon and ranked S in this tier.

 

[Sweet Jesus]

I don't play much these days, but I think I've played this game long enough to know how it works without too much testing. I still want to give my opinion because these 2 are part of the reason why I don't play much these days.

I don't think any of these 2 would have to be banned if it wasn't for the fact that they are both in the tier simultaneously. While they both have very stong fire stabs, they both have pretty different counters. It is possible to build a team that counters both, but it'll probably be a bad team when it comes to facing any other thing that doesn't concentrate on fire spam.
NU has always been said to be the tier where you can make gimmicks work and with assault vest and air balloon in this gen, there's a whole lotta of playing around to abuse if it's for countering a single threat. Specialy defensive ludicolo for example (although it doesn't use neither of the previoulsy listed items) was one of my favourite mons back in gen5, it would still be a great switch-in on camerupt, threatening scald as much as the possibility to synthesis on the switch, but right now, if you put it on your team, there's a good chance you'll be either decimated by typhlosion, very vulnerable on the physical side, or slow as balls and terrible at gaining momentum.
Same goes for typhlosion. Any water type with an assault vest or simply lanturn are cool switch-ins for typhosion but if you then add something to switch in on camerupt, you end up with the same problems I just listed above.

This is why to me, it comes down to banning one of the 2, but not necessarily both. which one should be banned is where it becomes more complex. Camerupt is obviously harder to switch-in but it's slow as balls. Yes it's pretty bulky and doesn't pack too much weaknesses, but when it comes to actually walling stuff, only a couple of electric types feel concerned. Dealing with camerupt in NU is a LOT of prediction, much more than dealing with typhlosion. However camerupt has the ability to sweep only under trick room, other than that he only causes big damage any time he gets a free switch and proper prediction is applied. That implies you're capable of giving him such opportunities without saccing imoprtant things every time. Trick room itself is in my opinion not consistent enough as a strategy to make an abuser ban worthy (unless maybe he can cast it himself).

Then comes typhlosion, more potential walls, but this thing has sweep potential, not just wallbreaking potential. tanking a fire blast or an earth power is something hard, but tanking 2 consecutive eruptions/fire blast is not to be neglected either. Typhlosion also has access to great coverage (although focus blast is focus blast). His speed stat also makes him viable with a scarf and specs which is some more predicting. What really annoys me of this guy though is the fact that even with specs, there's very few viable mons in NU that outspeed him. This means you have to think twice before killing something with a simple haunter, jynx, primeape and so much more because you're giving a free switch to a mon that packs one of the most poweful attacks in the tier and outspeeds you.

In the end I tried to be brief because there's a thousand details you could add on both sides but it would delute my main point. I personnaly would prefer seeing typhlosion banned because he doesn't even require that much skill to use, you have to guess if he's specs or scarf every time and in my opinion he makes the tier less fun more than camerupt does.

 

[DennisEG]

Thoughts : Camerupt Mega - This thing is a monster hit like a truck but is too slow and trick room isnt nearly common in NU ... The problem is there isnt switch ins safelly but i dont think should be banned

Typhlo is a great mon and i dont think is overcentralizing the meta game at all, maybe limit a lil bit the teambuilding but rocks hurt a lot a typhlo and put pressure on his offensive power called eruption, so yeah stay in NU both mons imo

 

[Cased]

I think everyone has basically posted about Cameruptite and the pros and cons of using it in general. Although there are counters to it, I'll consider SpD Pelipper / Hariyama / Mantine all very good switch-ins, HP Electric / Will-O-Wisp can obviously hurt them but it's the closest thing we have to good switch-ins besides Air Balloon Fire-types. Although I think Hariyama is a lousy switch-in since a Burnt Hariyama is basically set-up fodder for 90% of the tier that can set-up. I think the problem with these two suspects is that it limits building to an extent. Of course, there are a lot of Pokemon you must prepare for because they're simply threats, and you have to prepare for threats. But I feel like Camerupt and Typhlosion are a bit more than that and I'll try to explain in my Typh post on why I believe it is. Like I said earlier, I won't go into Cameruptite because the reasons are pretty obvious, no need to reiterate them like I'm sure many people in here have.

Typhlosion was a huge deal right when XY NU started. Everyone immediately realized the power of a Specs Eruption from full health, making it mandatory that you run something that can wall an Eruption on anything that isn't un-synergetic Hyper Offense. SpD Seismitoad / SpD Regirock / Mantine / NP Ninetales / SpD Rhydon / Assault Vest Hariyama / Dragalge. Of course, Offensive Water-types were merely a check, getting 2hko'd by a full power Eruption or a Blaze Fire Blast, it was a one-time check. Of course there were others like SpD Zweilous and Lampent but they weren't common at all now or at the time. The only problem with the counters we have left are that half of them are at risk of potentially being OHKO'd by Typhlosion. Seismitoad and Rhydon are at huge risk due to HP Grass, a staple on any Typhlosion set (unless power herb), and are both OHKO'd by it, Rhydon lives but it's basically fodder after that. Regirock is at risk from Focus Blast (like it'll hit lol). AV Hariyama and Mantine are pretty surefire counters, although if it's not max SpD, Mantine after Rocks doesn't enjoy that many Eruptions, although it's able to take whatever Typhlosion throws at it, besides the very rare HP Electric but that's generally not as effective as its other Hidden Power possibilities. With Flash Fire now, it makes Typhlosion and Ninetales able to /beat/ other Typhlosions. Although this brings up the main point I wanted to make... I've noticed that anything that's considered a counter to Typhlosion solely stops it from spamming Eruption and Fire Blast, that's it. If you can take a Fire-type move, you're considered a generally decent Typhlosion counter. I think that's pretty messed up considering the two moveslots Typhlosion has left are basically able to erase a fair share of its considered counters.

I believe that even though Typhlosion has an unfortunate weakness to Stealth Rock and a Speed tier that isn't quite top-tier, the raw power Eruption has from full has definitely centralized the metagame a little bit. Is this bad? Not necessarily, every tier has a fairly centralizing or Pokemon that is talked about a lot. Chandelure in BW UU / Druddigon and Moltres in BW RU... That kinda stuff. I'm not comparing, I'm just saying a tiny bit of centralization generally doesn't mean something is immediately broken. Although, I do think Typhlosion is unhealthy for the tier. Of course, this comes down to general suspecting ideologies. If you believe that something cannot be broken because of how unhealthy it is, then that's fine, can't really argue with that. But yeah, I'd support a ban of Typhlosion.

 

[SlickHippo99]

As far as M-Camerupt is concerned, I think this thing has to go. As it stands, it has four main switch-ins: Seismitoad, Mantine, Pelipper, and Hariyama. Sure there are other things like Air Balloon Ninetales, but most of the other switch-ins it has are totally niche and the only reason to run them is to check Mega Camerupt. Three solid switch-ins is pretty few, and all of them besides pelipper can be worn down due to a lack of reliable recovery. Additionally, Camerupt can pick to stop any two of these switch-ins. HP Grass destroys Seismitoad, doing about 96% max or something like that to the defensive variant. HP Electric or Rock Slide can be run to slam Mantine and Pelipper. Will-O-Wisp can be run to cripple Hariyama (not only will its attack be halved, but it will lose 12% of its health every turn, which is bad since it has no recovery at all). And if you already have ways of dealing with these mons, you can run stealth rock too for even more utility. Its solid bulk gives it plenty opportunities to set it up. Speaking of its bulk, Camerupt can't be OHKOed by any standard variants of the above Pokemon (except maybe Seismitoad, I'm on mobile right now), so that switch in will likely die from two attacks. Sure Camerupt can be revenged after that, but not after eliminating at least one mon on your team.

TL;DR Camerupt is too strong pls ban now

 

[Silver Aurum]

Ok so just my thought on Typhlosion really quickly. The closest thing to a switch in to Specs Eruption from Typhlosion that I can see is Hariyma/Rhydon/Seismitoad/Regirock. Well let me first start off by telling you that Hariyama is easily worn down by switching in to Specs eruption and if your opponent predicts correctly you take 45-49% (Roughly too lazy to calc) From Specs Extrasensory. Now lets move on to SpD Toad and Rhydon. Well first of all both of these pokemon get destroyed by a well played HP grass Typhlosion and even if your opponent doesnt feel like predicting and just decides to click Eruption Rhydon takes 33-39% from Specs Eruption and SpD Seismitoad takes 33-38%. So the only Pokemon that I think can reliably switch into Typhlosion is probably Regirock but oh wait Focus Blast is a thing and it does 68-80% to regirock. Obviously this post might seem a little biased but all I wanted to do was show you that the things you think are switch ins to Typhlosion are not really switch ins at all. And yes Typhlosion is worn down by rocks and has a mediocre Speed Tier but the sheer power this thing has makes it suffocating to team build and very hard to counter in general. Keep in mind im not saying that Typhlosion is broken I merely wanted to show you the amount of pressure it can put on teams and that the common switch ins to this thing arent super reliable. (and I forgot to mention mantine but it gets worn down extremely quickly by rocks + eruption)

 

[Jim E. Russler]

Camerupt-Mega is definitely a huge threat, but I'm going to try and use my post to focus on its flaws, since its strengths have been the point of discussion for most of the thread.

First and most glaring is the abysmal speed stat. Even the slowest teams can consistently outpace Megarupt, making it difficult for it to fire off attacks unscathed. Fire/Ground typing also leaves it weak to two common attacking types, and it takes neutral damage from many of the others, leaving players with many options to use to chunk away at its health. It's also vulnerable to every form of entry hazard and lacks a reliable form of recovery, so it can be worn down into KO range through a combination of direct damage and hazard chip before it wreaks an unholy amount of havoc.

Those are what I see as the most notable flaws. None of them are especially crippling alone, but they come together to create a way to pressure the camel effectively. There are also a few smaller ones related to Mega Stone mechanics.

There is an opportunity cost in running Mega Camerupt, being unable to run Mega Audino. The bulk that helps make Mega Camerupt so threatening is also not a factor in its base form, and with leads like Seismitoad, Archeops and Piloswine to disrupt a safe early evolution it can sometimes become a problem to bring it in.

Do these outweigh the positive traits of Mega Camerupt? Of course not. It boasts the strongest attacking stat in the metagame, excellent mixed bulk and coverage and the ability to devote 1-2 move slots to utility while still being a huge offensive threat. Do they stop it from being outright broken? Maybe. I've bounced around with my viewpoint on this Pokemon for a month or two, but at this point I will be voting no ban.


The main problem I'm facing with the second vote is that I don't have enough experience actually facing a Flash Fire Typhlosion. I have been mostly inactive in NU between the Steelix/Heliolisk suspect and now, and I find myself facing Mega Camerupt far more on the suspect ladder than Typhlosion.

I have seen that a Charcoal set has risen in viability and usage with Flash Fire's release, I suppose to avoid the problem of Typhlosions movelocking into each other. This has granted it the potential power of an XY Typhlosion's Specs Eruption/Fire Blast without taking away the other moveslots, all while discouraging the opponents from using their own Fire attacks (special mention to scaring Will O' users, I think that's really cool). As a result, you can't switch something like Seismitoad or Rhydon into Eruption because you'll eat HP Grass the next turn, if you switch in Hariyama you will take Extrasensory or Will O'...Typhlosion is much better equipped to deal with its traditional checks now.

The main problem I could see is the metagame's recent inclination towards Pokemon above Typhlosion's speed tier. Flash Fire Typhlosion also doesn't appreciate having to switch in and out of hazards like the Blaze variant does.

Due to not having enough practical experience with this Pokemon, I'm on the fence until I use it myself to determine my vote, but I felt like I should at least post my thoughts based on what I have seen.

 

[YABO]

So after playing on this ladder for only a short time I'd like to share a few preliminary thoughts that I have.

Camerupt:
20 base speed. This is absolutely huge for me. When RU was suspecting Pangoro, I felt as if the tier didn't need to ban it but to adapt from the way it had been and change to a more offensive playstyle. A style that focused not on walling everything but ensuring that you don't get walled. So far, Camerupt is feeling similar to me. In my experience thus far, I've found that Camerupt is incredibly difficult to use successfully. Being unable to come in on many prominent threats of the tier is a huge negative. Once it is on the field it is certainly a monstrous threat capable of OHKOing many offensive pokemon while threatening to even 2hko some of its checks. However, it has difficulty forcing these 2hkos due to its previously mentioned speed stat. So far what I've seen as the most effective way to run Camerupt is with Healing Wish support but even then it can struggle vs some teams. Overall, I think Camerupt's fair amount of checks combined with offense's ability to pressure it heavily keep it NU for me.

Typhlosion:
Typhlosion is a savage. Unlike Camerupt, Typhlosion has enough speed to significantly threaten offense. Specs Eruption mutilates many common switch ins and scarf eruption functions well as a late game cleaner. I haven't had as much experience versus Typhlosion so I'll leave it here for now.

 

[Teddeh]

Well after some blood, sweat and plenty of tears I managed to get reqs, so i'm gonna post thoughts now since they have been changed quite a bit since the start of the test.
My thoughts still remain the same on typhlosion however, i used it during tests for spl, during my ladder experience and have used it a lot since nu alpha. I don't see it as too much for nu to handle as we have a variety of checks and honestly you just need to use a bulky fire type to check it such as camerupt, magmortar, your own typhlosion with flash fire or ninetails along with hariyama, mantine, prinplup, spdef pelipper... Honestly there's a lot of checks that I ran into and made typh honestly a burden to my team since it was checked so heavily before the game started. I think this is why not many people used it during the suspect and I didn't see it very often for this reason. Hence I intend to vote no ban.

My thoughts changed on camerupt as I used it during testing and as I realised, it's so easy to splash on teams now there isn't mega-steelix to use. It's honestly a force to be messed with. My set which I chose to use didn't even have max special attack and still 2hit ko'd the whole meta that didn't use a mantine and had enough bulk to live a hit and cripple things like hariyama that overpredict and click knock off and can even set up my stealth rocks. Not to mention check a huge proportion of the tier such as mawile, klinklang, fire types, poison types, electric types... honestly my thoughts have been swayed quite a bit at how easy it is to use while being bulky as fuck. Although for how useful it is, it's very easy to force out just by the thought of a water attack and requires a severe prediction to stay in on a pokemon that can learn scald or a water move. I'd like to convince myself that our tier is being picky when it comes to banning things that are manageable for the tier, which camerupt is, it is manageable however i'd also agree with saying that it is unhealthy for the tier. Just when building teams you realise how hard it is to prepare for when you don't have a mantine or a pelipper on your team and hariyama doesn't even check it, being realistic here. I think that this effect on team building, the ease on using it with little need for prediction when either clicking earth power or fire blast, the amount of pokemon it checks and counters aswell as the fear factor and the force of 50/50s, and finally the dramatic lack of checks and no counters for it would lead me to believe it is "broken" and deserves to go from the tier. I intend to vote ban.

 

[Aasgier]

Ehr, Magmortar, Typhlosion, Flareon and other Fire-types all lose to Earthquake variants of (Charcoal-wielding) Typhlosion, making them not as solid counters as they used to be when everyone ran Choice Typh. The problem is the fact that Typhlosion can wield Charcoal outside of its choice sets.
You can have a team with Flash Fire user+Water-type+Rock-type and still get swept by Typh. I once had a Typh running past Flareon+Poliwrath+Golem+Archeops one by one which caused me to leave NU alone, and I refuse to use a Typh of my own because it's a boring mofo.

Neither Typh or Camel are really broken, but they're both really obnoxious and I won't even bother with the tier until they are gone since the meta is warped around them completely, and we are so used to it we don't even notice it anymore.

 

[Thisbemyalt]

So I am at 1900 COIL right now and I am really liking this tier, I am usually UU exclusive and really only joined for badge points but honestly I am really enjoying NU can't wait to get into this tier a bit more n_n. I will write a longer post when I am done with reqs but for now I gotta say Im thinkin No Ban on typh and am on the fence about mega rupt so yeah sorry for a short post but I will add more later.
Edit: Shout out to whoever made the rain team on sample team thread you are solely responsible for me getting reqs n_n

 

[Ares]

So I am at 1900 COIL right now and I am really liking this tier, I am usually UU exclusive and really only joined for badge points but honestly I am really enjoying NU can't wait to get into this tier a bit more n_n. I will write a longer post when I am done with reqs but for now I gotta say Im thinkin No Ban on typh and am on the fence about mega rupt so yeah sorry for a short post but I will add more later.
Edit: Shout out to whoever made the rain team on sample team thread you are solely responsible for me getting reqs n_n

Glad you are enjoying NU. But don't you think you might be a little biased to not banning Typhlosion because you are using a rain team? lol

 

[Thisbemyalt]

Glad you are enjoying NU. But don't you think you might be a little biased to not banning Typhlosion because you are using a rain team? lol

I have experience with NU prior to suspect (not much) and I did ladder not using rain early on lol. However I understand what you mean and I might be but its the same way someone might be biased if they ran two typhlosion checks, I will look at the mon more in depth after I earn reqs as I intend to play without rain, I am only using it for quick reqs tbh. From what I have seen both laddering and watching others ladder I really do not feel that it is broken like I said though I will write reasoning later on in the suspect.

 

[QueenOfLuvdiscs]

Opps, I meant to clarify on some aspects of the post,

M-Camerupt is an absolute beast to switch into. His raw power is downright incredible, but let us not forget:
252+ SpA Sheer Force Mega Camerupt Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mew: 279-328 (69 - 81.1%)
252+ Atk Mold Breaker Rampardos Head Smash vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mew: 322-379 (79.7 - 93.8%)
Rampardos does hit harder, but if you want to use less risky attacks:
252+ Atk Sheer Force Rampardos Rock Slide vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mew: 211-249 (52.2 - 61.6%)
252+ SpA Sheer Force Mega Camerupt Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mew: 228-268 (56.4 - 66.3%)
They both hit about the same.

Here, I mean to show that we should not ban Mega Camerupt because he hits hard, as Ramp does more than him, and Ramp is not getting banned. If 93%(as damage output) is not too high, than it stands to reason that 81% is not too high either.

Now while this does make it seem like Ramp is stronger than Rupt, keep in mind, it is a lot easier to spam STAB moves with Rupt because they have less resistees.

^Who resist both STABS.
The problem with Rupt is he forces too many switches, here are most examples of what can happen:

You have someone in who is in a bad matchup against the opponent's fresh Rupt, you have 3 choices:
a) Stay in and hope he can't finish you in one hit (unlikely, but you won't lose your Rupt check/counter/whatever)
b) You switch in your Mantine/Seismitoad and he may hit you with HP electric/grass respectively, making you lost your only Rupt check/counter.
c) He sets up a Substitute/Rock Polish/Double Switches or does other stuff that will cost you a team member or two.

While your opponent may not predict properly, you probably would not like to risk it. By "Costing a team member or two" I meant "heavily damage to the point of being unable to switch into rocks twice", more crippling than outright KOing.
While Rupt is very powerful, and I would like to see him go, I think his comparability to Rampardos makes him seem like less of a broken Poke.

I say 'I would like to see him go' so this post doesn't look like I'm saying "Ban Camerupt and Typhlosion because I think they are OP and so should you." I get that other people can have different opinions, and I welcome said opinions about the suspects.
Typhlosion. Just going to be brief here. He can be specs. He can be scarf. Specs is a beast to switch into. Scarf cleans with ease. Typhlosion mindlessly spams Eruption and 2-Hit KOes resistees. Once his checks are gone, Mesprit/Liligant uses Healing Wish on him. Rinse, cycle, repeat.
252 SpA Choice Specs Typhlosion Eruption (150 BP) vs. 200 HP / 56 SpD Seismitoad: 191-225 (47.6 - 56.1%)
252 SpA Choice Specs Typhlosion Eruption (150 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Kabutops: 108-128 (41.3 - 49%)
252 SpA Choice Specs Typhlosion Eruption (150 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Uxie THROUGH LIGHT SCREEN: 129-152 (36.4 - 42.9%)

I have no idea what went wrong here. What I meant to say was Typh is difficult to work around until he reveals his item. If he is not Scarf, just bring in (not switch in) your Scarfer, Archeops, fast dude, whatever. However, If he IS Scarf it would be mighty unfortunate if he were to out speed your fastest team member who you thought could outpace him. While the argument of "keeping Typh from spamming Eruption" does exist, I don't see how to do it, as he already 2-hit KOes most resistees when he has Specs, so they can only switch in once, and the only people immune to Fire are Ninetales, Rapidash, Flareon, Typh himself, and Heatmor, all of which I assume are unviable. As people have said, his switch ins lack reliable recovery.
But after taking all this in, I actually think he may not be broken. Sure he 2HKoes almost everything when he has Specs and is at full health. Let me rephrase that, he 2HKoes everything that OHKoes him when he is given Specs, thus outsped by a bunch of Pokes, and has not taken damage from Rocks which are up every single game. He erupts, he erupts hard without a doubt. But when he is not at full health he hits just as hard as Pyroar, who is not broken:

252 SpA Choice Specs Typhlosion Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mew: 237-280 (58.6 - 69.3%)
252 SpA Choice Specs Pyroar Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mew: 237-280 (58.6 - 69.3%)

While they both have different move pools, they both just prefer to spam STAB moves.
And don't even get me started on when Flash Fire is up.

Personally, I would like to see them both go, but that's just me.

Once again, this is so people know that this is a post showing my opinion which I should not, and will not, force upon anybody else.

I guess my opinion on Typh is a no ban
And Rupt is an uhh I dunno

(how do I use hide?)

Well... firstly, 97/60/50 with pure rock typing means that this isn't switching in on anything really. You cannot compare Rampardos to Mega Camerupt in anyway shape or form. Just because Rampardos hits slightly harder, does not make it any less of a force to be dealt with, as well as it being suspect worthy. The 3 options that you gave is exactly why it's being suspected; you either kill something or you let something take considerable damage. The fact you give these calcs and yet you end your post with a 'uhh I dunno' is really quite surprising and you even explain as to why Typh is suspect worthy.

Saying that it's switch ins have no reliable recovery or are unviable really should start ringing alarm bells. By bringing in a faster Pokemon implies that you have sacked something to bring said Pokemon in, which means that it's done it's job; it's broken what it needs to/got a kill and even when you bring in your faster Pokemon, what's gonna prevent them switching out and bringing in it later?

Finally, you say that you would like to see them both gone, yet you are for no ban on both essentially. Your arguments have huge flaws, which in fact, have just shown how much more of a threat they really are.

edit: also, forgot to say, that is way too much formatting for one point

 

[Deej Dy]

Alright after getting reqs I suppose it's time to write my thoughts.

1. Typhlosion and Camerupt may or may not be broken depending on your opinion, however, there is no denying they restrict team-building
2. The Charcoal set on Typhlosion was surprisingly very good, as it basically makes Hariyama a liability with Will-o-Wisp and beats fire checks Ninetales, (no balloon), Magmortar, (Pignite?) and Lanturn with EQ.
3. Hariyama/Mantine are ubiquitous at this point and I don't think that is healthy for the tier
4. I have no real problems with them on the ladder considering I run Mantine, but when I don't I find them quite overwelming/broken.

Overall, there are strong checks to the problem (Mantine, Hariyama, Lanturn (Typh no EQ), etc), but they are becoming way too common and holding back the NU tier from creativity. I vote ban on both, although Rupt will probably leave by RU usage next month anyway.