Arceus-Water

[haxiom]

Water Arceus

[QC: 2/3] -- Fireburn / WreckDra / Sweep
[GP: 2/2] -- GatoDelFuego / Aurora + Winry.

Overview
########

Water Arceus is a bit of an odd Pokemon in ORAS Ubers. The high usage of Primal Groudon is a bit of a mixed bag for it: while its immunity to Water-type Judgment greatly reduces the effectiveness of Water Arceus as a mono-attacker, Primal Groudon checks a lot of Water Arceus's own checks, such as Zekrom, Ferrothorn, and other Electric- and Grass-types. Water Arceus has great 120 / 120 / 120 bulk and a wide movepool with an array of useful support moves, but is also prone to Toxic, which tends to be thrown around frequently.

Support
########
name: Support
move 1: Recover
move 2: Toxic
move 3: Ice Beam / Defog
move 4: Judgment / Defog
ability: Multitype
item: Splash Plate
evs: 252 HP / 200 Def / 56 Spe
nature: Bold

Moves
========

Recover is a necessary means of reliable recovery that improves longevity and allows Water Arceus to take repeated hits. Toxic puts a timer on Stealth Rock setters, especially Primal Groudon, which does not mind Ice Beam too much but can be worn down throughout the course of a match by Toxic. Ice Beam hits Salamence super effectively and hits Primal Groudon through harsh sunlight. Judgment is a decently powerful STAB move that hits Ho-Oh, Diancie, and most Steel-types harder. With the decline of Gothitelle, Water Arceus is a reliable Defog user, and it can offer valuable support for a team by clearing entry hazards; Defog can be used over either Ice Beam or Judgment, but Water Arceus will struggle to hit certain targets if lacking either of these moves.

Set Details
========

Splash Plate is the mandatory item in order to become Water Arceus. 252 HP EVs maximize mixed bulk, and 56 Speed EVs allow Water Arceus to outpace Adamant Rayquaza. The rest of the investment is put into Defense, with a Bold nature to help against the strong physical attackers that dominate the Ubers metagame such as Ho-Oh, Primal Groudon, and Salamence. Other usable Speed benchmarks include 124 Speed with a Bold nature for outspeeding positive-natured max Speed base 90s, and 176 Speed with a Timid Nature for outspeeding positive-natured max Speed base 110s, such as Gengar and some Latios.

Usage Tips
========

Switch Water Arceus in aggressively on Pokemon that it can check, such as Primal Groudon, and spread Toxic, as Defog in conjunction with Toxic often can keep entry hazards off your side fairly well. Avoid getting hit by Toxic; this includes not using it too liberally against a team with a Mega Diancie or Mega Sableye in the back. Try to stay healthy with Recover, as after taking a hit or two with entry hazards up, it becomes increasingly difficult to check the things Water Arceus needs to check. Switching into Primal Kyogre can work on a predicted Ice Beam, Origin Pulse, or Scald, but because of Thunder it is not advisable to stay in, but rather to use Water Arceus to pivot safely into Primal Groudon.

Team Options
========

Primal Groudon is an effective teammate that checks Electric-types and helps check Kyogre, which takes pressure off of Water Arceus. Clerics, such as Clefable, Blissey, Diancie, and Xerneas, can heal status that can annoy Water Arceus, especially Toxic. Ho-Oh appreciates Defog and also can freely switch into Grass-type Pokemon, which Water Arceus may bait, such as Ferrothron. Ferrothorn takes off pressure from Kyogre and checks Electric-types. Finally, Tyranitar can check Darkrai and Gengar, which can heavily pressure Water Arceus.

Other Options
########

Will-O-Wisp is a viable alternative to Toxic, and while it is blocked by Primal Groudon, it can still cripple Salamence and other physical attackers. Stealth Rock can be used by Water Arceus in the case that no other member of the team can use it, as Stealth Rock is an essential move on any team. Payback can deal respectable damage to Latias, Latios, and Gengar. Lastly, Grass Knot is a viable move to deal heavy damage to Kyogre, which otherwise takes little from Water Arceus.

Checks & Counters
########

**Steel-types**: While they might not necessarily be able to do too much back to Water Arceus, Steel-types are good checks to Water Arceus, as they resist Ice Beam and are immune to Toxic. Klefki can Toxic Water Arceus and put it on a timer before setting Spikes, though it takes a decent amount of damage from Judgment. Aegislash can also Toxic Water Arceus. Dialga is especially notable, as its secondary Dragon typing grants it a resistance to Judgment as well.

**Grass-types**: Ferrothorn can use Leech Seed and Toxic, set up Stealth Rock or Spikes, and hit Water Arceus fairly hard with a potential Power Whip. It also takes neutral damage from Ice Beam, resists Judgment, and is immune to Toxic. Grass Arceus is prone to Toxic, but it does not take too much from Ice Beam and can threaten back with a powerful Grass Knot or Grass-type Judgment.

**Latias and Latios**: Latias and Latios are very solid checks to Water Arceus, in spite of being weak to Ice Beam. They resist a possible Water-type Judgment, can Roost off damage, and, if they are Calm Mind variants, set up and possibly fire off an extremely powerful Draco Meteor. At +1, Latios has a chance to straight up OHKO Water Arceus with Draco Meteor. Additionally, the uncommon Grass Knot deals a lot of damage. However, both Latias and Latios dislike Toxic and struggle to overpower Water Arceus without Calm Mind or Grass Knot.

**Palkia**: While not very common, Palkia only takes neutral damage Ice Beam and has a quadruple resistance to Judgment. Offensive variants can paralyze Water Arceus with Thunder Wave and proceed to spam Spacial Rend in hopes of a full paralysis or hit Water Arceus with a super effective Thunder. More defensively inclined Palkia variants can Rest off Water Arceus's Toxic and cripple Water Arceus with a Toxic of its own.

**Electric-types**: Zekrom heavily pressures Water Arceus with a super effective Bolt Strike and can retain momentum with Volt Switch; however, it dislikes Ice Beam and Will-O-Wisp. Electric Arceus fears Toxic, but still threatens with an Electric-type Judgment and can possibly set up a Calm Mind or two.

**Shadow Tag**: Gothitelle is the most dangerous Shadow Tag user for Water Arceus, because Gothitelle can trap it with ease and proceed to set up six Calm Minds, defeat Water Arceus, and threaten the remainder of Water Arceus's team. Mega Gengar can use Taunt and force a double KO with Destiny Bond, or it can use Perish Song to trap and KO Water Arceus. Wobbuffet might not be able to directly beat Water Arceus, but it can create a free setup opportunity for another member of its team.

**Primal Groudon**: Primal Groudon does not take too much from Ice Beam and is immune to Judgment; however, it hates Toxic. Support variants cannot beat Water Arceus, as they will be quickly worn down by Toxic, but Rock Polish and Swords Dance variants can set up on Water Arceus and attempt to overwhelm it.

**Toxic**: Toxic puts Water Arceus on a timer, limiting the turns it can stay in and Recover off damage or Defog. It is a major annoyance and can make Water Arceus easier to defeat, but should not be relied on as a means to beat Water Arceus.

 

[haxiom]

QC ready I guess, Team Options, OO, and C&C are a bit lacking in my opinion (especially ordering in C&C) so feedback there is welcome.

 

[Fireburn]

Make the EV Spread 252 HP / 200 Def / 56 Speed Bold, you outspeed Adamant Rayquaza and take hits from Primal Groudon and Ho-Oh a lot better.

Worth mentioning Tyranitar to deal with Darkrai/Gengar (general supportceus checks)

Grass Knot in OO to smack Kyogre around a bit

QC 1/3

 

[haxiom]

Make the EV Spread 252 HP / 200 Def / 56 Speed Bold, you outspeed Adamant Rayquaza and take hits from Primal Groudon and Ho-Oh a lot better.

Worth mentioning Tyranitar to deal with Darkrai/Gengar (general supportceus checks)

Grass Knot in OO to smack Kyogre around a bit
QC 1/3

Implemented

 

[Inspirited]

I have used CM 2 attacks before, but it was nothing special. If you could touch on this in OO when writing that would do to me.

Also:

Make the EV Spread 252 HP / 200 Def / 56 Speed Bold, you outspeed Adamant Rayquaza and take hits from Primal Groudon and Ho-Oh a lot better.

^Do this!
QC 2/3

 

[haxiom]

I have used CM 2 attacks before, but it was nothing special. If you could touch on this in OO when writing that would do to me.

Also:
^Do this!
QC 2/3

Oh what I swear I did that sorry I implemented this check.

 

[haxiom]

This is written and ready for the third QC check.

 

[dice]

sorry but i just saw this

ice beam needs a stand alone slash. salamence is far too big of an issue otherwise.

my biggest gripe with defog arceus-water is that it can't touch ho-oh. if ho-oh gets a burn, you lack judgment and it just overpowers you with brave bird. i wouldn't even consider using defog arceus-water, but i know others have used it to... some degree.... you also can't even touch klefki, sableye, diancie, excadrill, desperately chip darkrai, threaten arceus-ground, touch blaziken, etc.

i think the only set should be judgment / ice beam / recover / toxic due to this with defog being mentioned in moves. i have used this pokemon extensively and i've found that lacking judgment just makes your team open to too many threats.

don't slash will-o-wisp since you can't touch primal groudon otherwise.

why is lati@s the first pokemon listed in checks and counters? defog loses to this set.

you fail to mention primal groudon in checks and counters as well which gets free set up

 

[steelskitty]

Move WoW to OO, waterceus _needs_ a way to damage Primal Groudon but WoW is still decent and can be used in conjunction with Toxic in extreme cases where you need waterceus to check opposing Ekiller. Giving up Judgment does kind of suck but you can get by without it depending on your team structure whereas toxic, the move you slashed WoW with, is always mandatory.

Omit refreshcm from OO, you can never justify a set on a Pokemon not named Primal Kyogre that has absolutely no way to touch Primal Groudon. Omit Thunder Wave as it's utterly useless and shouldn't be used over WoW, which is already a stretch to run.

Slash Recover first as it is the most important move, and don't give Defog a slash; move it to Moves and mention that it can be run over Judgment but this turns you into STAG bait and leaves you with only a passive way to damage opposing Ho-Ohs in Toxic.

Don't mention Latis first in checks and counters. Specify that only Calm Mind + Draco Meteor or GK (or Thunder, if people still use that) Latis will beat Arceus-Water, and even then they can be worn down by Toxic from Waterceus coupled with adequate switch-ins to them. Mention Latis just before Palkia in checks and counters.

 

[Hack]

You can still omit ice beam and use judgment on stalls with Lugia where you really want a defoger that isn't pursuit bait so you don't straight up lose to ttar. Even if you can't touch Ho-oh, the mon is a somewhat effective deterrent to it as LO Brave Bird quickly forces Ho-oh itself due to recoil. Idk I think it's really hard to justify a mon with a supportive set that doesn't actually support the team aside from losely checking a couple of threats.

Basically ib/tox/recover/defog has a hard time vs ho-oh but provides the usual checking of mence and combines that with anti hazard measures, ib/judg/tox/recover beats ho-oh and to an extent gengar but forces you to use additional support mons, judg/tox/defog/recover beats ho-oh and provides anti hazard support but loses to (refresh) mence so you need additional check- so you use it on fat teams. My experience tells me all three sets are viable and the slashing should reflect that so something like:

Arceus-Water @ Splash Plate
Ability: Multitype
EVs: 252 HP / 200 Def / 56 Spe
Bold Nature
- Ice Beam / Defog
- Judgment / Defog
- Toxic
- Recover

is in my opinion the slashing that limits building less.

for logs/replays that supports ice beam less arc water:
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ubers-222404260
http://pastebin.com/pC9mV4jQ

 

[haxiom]

Implemented Hack's slashes (though re-ordered), moved Latis just above Palkia, added Groudon to C&C, and removed both Refresh CM and Thunder Wave from OO. Did I miss anything?

 

[Sweep]

qc 3/3

 

[haxiom]

Thanks Sweep, this is ready for GP checks now.

 

[GatoDelFuego]

haxiom

REMOVE CHANGE COMMENTS

Control + F "Arceus-Water" --> Replace with "Water Arceus"

If you could take care of that, it'd be great :}

Hide

Overview
########

Arceus-Water was greatly affected by the changes that came around with ORAS Ubers. The addition of Primal Groudon is a bit of a mixed bag, because its immunity to Water-type Judgment greatly reduces the effectiveness of Arceus-Water as a mono-attacker; however, Primal Groudon checks a lot of Arceus-Water's own checks, such as Zekrom, Ferrothorn, and other Electric- and Grass-types. Additionally, Palkia and Gothitelle, which troubled Arceus-Water before, have become much more uncommon. Water Arceus is a bit of an odd Pokemon in ORAS Ubers. The high use of Primal Groudon is a bit of a mixed bag, because its immunity to Water-type Judgment greatly reduces the effectiveness of Arceus-Water as a mono-attacker; however, Primal Groudon checks a lot of Arceus-Water's own checks, such as Zekrom, Ferrothorn, and other Electric- and Grass-types. Arceus-Water still maintains has great 120 / 120 / 120 bulk and a wide movepool with an array of useful support moves, but is also still prone to Toxic, which tends to be thrown around frequently. Nevertheless, Arceus-Water is an effective, reliable support Pokemon in the Ubers metagame.

Support
########
name: Support
move 1: Recover
move 2: Toxic
move 3: Ice Beam / Defog
move 4: Judgment / Defog
ability: Multitype
item: Splash Plate
evs: 252 HP / 200 Def / 56 Spe
nature: Bold

Moves
========

Recover is a necessary means of reliable recovery that improves longevity and allows Arceus-Water to take repeated hits. Toxic puts a timer on Stealth Rock setters, especially Primal Groudon, which does not mind Ice Beam too much, but can be worn down throughout the course of a match by Toxic. Ice Beam is an important move, because it hits Salamence super effectively and hits Primal Groudon through harsh sunlight. Judgment is a decently powerful STAB move that hits Ho-Oh, Diancie, and most Steel-types harder. With the decline of Gothitelle, Arceus-Water is a reliable Defog user, and it can offer valuable support for a team by clearing entry hazards; Defog can be used over either Ice Beam or Judgment, but Arceus-Water will struggle to hit certain targets if lacking either of these moves.

Set Details
========

Splash Plate is the mandatory item in order to become Arceus-Water. In regards to the spread, 252 HP EVs maximizes mixed bulk, while and 56 Speed EVs allow Arceus-Water to outpace Adamant Rayquaza. The rest of the investment is put into Defense, with a Bold nature to help against the strong physical attackers that dominate the Ubers metagame like such as Ho-Oh, Primal Groudon, and Salamence. Other usable Speed benchmarks include 124 Speed with a Bold nature for outspeeding positive-natured max Speed base 90s, and 176 Speed with a Timid Nature for ouspeeding positive-natured max Speed base 110s, such as Gengar and some Latios.

Usage Tips
========

Switch Arceus-Water in aggressively on Pokemon that it can check, such as Primal Groudon, and spread Toxic aggressively, as Defog in conjunction with Toxic often can keep entry hazards off your side fairly well. Avoid getting hit by Toxic; this includes not using it too liberally against a team with a Mega Diancie or Mega Sableye in the back. Try to stay healthy with Recover, as after taking a hit or two with hazards up, it becomes increasingly difficult to check the things that it Water Arceus needs to check. Switching into Primal Kyogre can work on a predicted Ice Beam, Origin Pulse, or Scald, but because of Thunder it is not advisable to stay in, but rather to use it Water Arceus to pivot safely into Primal Groudon.

Team Options
========

Primal Groudon is an effective teammate that checks Electric-types and helps check Kyogre, which takes pressure off of Arceus-Water. Clerics, such as Clefable, Blissey, Diancie, and Xerneas, can heal status that can annoy Arceus-Water, especially Toxic. Ho-Oh appreciates Defog and also can freely switch into Grass-type Pokemon such as Ferrothorn which Arceus-Water may bait. Ferrothorn takes off pressure from Kyogre, and also checks Electric-types. Finally, Tyranitar can check Darkrai and Gengar, which can heavily pressure Arceus-Water.

Other Options
########

Will-O-Wisp is a viable alternative to Toxic, and while it is blocked by Primal Groudon, it can still cripple Salamence and other physical attackers. Stealth Rock can be used by Arceus-Water in the case that no other member of the team can use it, as Stealth Rock is an essential move on any team. Payback can deal respectable damage to Latias, Latios, and Gengar. Lastly, Grass Knot is a viable move to deal heavy damage to Kyogre, which otherwise takes little from Arceus-Water.

Checks & Counters
########

**Steel-types**: While they may might not be able to do too much back to Arceus-Water necessarily, Steel-types are good checks to Arceus-Water as they resist Ice Beam and are immune to Toxic. Klefki can Toxic Arceus-Water and put it on a timer, before setting Spikes, though it takes a decent amount of damage from Judgment.. (extra period) Aegislash can also Toxic Arceus-Water. Dialga is especially notable as its secondary Dragon typing grants it a resistance to Judgment as well.

**Grass-types**: Ferrothorn can use Leech Seed and Toxic, set Stealth Rock or Spikes, and hit Arceus-Water fairly hard with a potential Power Whip. It also takes neutral damage from Ice Beam, resists Judgment, and is immune to Toxic. Grass Arceus-Grass is prone to Toxic, but it does not take too much from Ice Beam and can threaten back with a powerful Grass Knot or Grass-type Judgment.

**Latias and Latios**: Latias and Latios are very solid checks to Arceus-Water, in spite of being weak to Ice Beam. They resist a possible Water-type Judgment, can Roost off damage, and if they are Calm Mind variants, (RC) they can set up and possibly fire off an extremely powerful Draco Meteor. At +1, Latios has a chance to straight up OHKO Arceus-Water with Draco Meteor. Additionally, the uncommon Grass Knot deals a lot of damage to it. However, both Latias and Latios dislike Toxic, (RC) and struggle to overpower Arceus-Water without Calm Mind or Grass Knot.

**Palkia**: While not very common, Palkia has a neutrality to Ice Beam and a quadruple resist to Judgment. Offensive variants can paralyze Arceus-Water with Thunder Wave and proceed to spam Spacial Rend in hopes of a full paralysis, or hit Arceus-Water with a super effective Thunder. More defensively inclined Palkia variants can Rest off Arceus-Water's Toxic and cripple Arceus-Water with a Toxic of its own.

**Electric-types**: Zekrom heavily pressures Arceus-Water with a super effective Bolt Strike, and can also retain momentum through with Volt Switch; however, it dislikes Ice Beam and Will-O-Wisp. Electric Arceus fears Toxic, but still threatens with an Electric-type Judgment and can possibly set up a Calm Mind or two.

**Shadow Tag**: Gothitelle is the most dangerous Shadow Tag user for Arceus-Water, because it Gothitelle can trap it with ease and proceed to set up six Calm Minds, defeat Arceus-Water, and threaten the remainder of Arceus-Water's team. Mega Gengar can use Taunt and force a double KO with Destiny Bond, or can use Perish Song to trap and KO Arceus-Water. Wobbuffet may might not be able to directly beat Arceus-Water, but it can create a free setup opportunity for another member of its team.

**Primal Groudon**: Primal Groudon does not take too much from Ice Beam and is immune to Judgment; however, it hates Toxic. Support variants cannot beat Arceus-Water, as they will be quickly worn down by Toxic, but Rock Polish and Swords Dance variants can set up on Arceus-Water and attempt to overwhelm it.

**Toxic**: Toxic puts Arceus-Water on a timer, limiting the turns it can stay in and Recover off damage or Defog. It is a major annoyance, and can make Arceus-Water easier to defeat, but should not be relied on as a means to beat Arceus-Water.

1/2

Just make sure the Arceus-[type] thing is fixed!

 

[haxiom]

haxiom

REMOVE CHANGE COMMENTS

Control + F "Arceus-Water" --> Replace with "Water Arceus"

If you could take care of that, it'd be great :}

Hide

Overview
########
Arceus-Water was greatly affected by the changes that came around with ORAS Ubers. The addition of Primal Groudon is a bit of a mixed bag, because its immunity to Water-type Judgment greatly reduces the effectiveness of Arceus-Water as a mono-attacker; however, Primal Groudon checks a lot of Arceus-Water's own checks, such as Zekrom, Ferrothorn, and other Electric- and Grass-types. Additionally, Palkia and Gothitelle, which troubled Arceus-Water before, have become much more uncommon. Water Arceus is a bit of an odd Pokemon in ORAS Ubers. The high use of Primal Groudon is a bit of a mixed bag, because its immunity to Water-type Judgment greatly reduces the effectiveness of Arceus-Water as a mono-attacker; however, Primal Groudon checks a lot of Arceus-Water's own checks, such as Zekrom, Ferrothorn, and other Electric- and Grass-types. Arceus-Water still maintains has great 120 / 120 / 120 bulk and a wide movepool with an array of useful support moves, but is also still prone to Toxic, which tends to be thrown around frequently. Nevertheless, Arceus-Water is an effective, reliable support Pokemon in the Ubers metagame.

Support
########
name: Support
move 1: Recover
move 2: Toxic
move 3: Ice Beam / Defog
move 4: Judgment / Defog
ability: Multitype
item: Splash Plate
evs: 252 HP / 200 Def / 56 Spe
nature: Bold

Moves
========

Recover is a necessary means of reliable recovery that improves longevity and allows Arceus-Water to take repeated hits. Toxic puts a timer on Stealth Rock setters, especially Primal Groudon, which does not mind Ice Beam too much, but can be worn down throughout the course of a match by Toxic. Ice Beam is an important move, because it hits Salamence super effectively and hits Primal Groudon through harsh sunlight. Judgment is a decently powerful STAB move that hits Ho-Oh, Diancie, and most Steel-types harder. With the decline of Gothitelle, Arceus-Water is a reliable Defog user, and it can offer valuable support for a team by clearing entry hazards; Defog can be used over either Ice Beam or Judgment, but Arceus-Water will struggle to hit certain targets if lacking either of these moves.

Set Details
========

Splash Plate is the mandatory item in order to become Arceus-Water. In regards to the spread, 252 HP EVs maximizes mixed bulk, while and 56 Speed EVs allow Arceus-Water to outpace Adamant Rayquaza. The rest of the investment is put into Defense, with a Bold nature to help against the strong physical attackers that dominate the Ubers metagame like such as Ho-Oh, Primal Groudon, and Salamence. Other usable Speed benchmarks include 124 Speed with a Bold nature for outspeeding positive-natured max Speed base 90s, and 176 Speed with a Timid Nature for ouspeeding positive-natured max Speed base 110s, such as Gengar and some Latios.

Usage Tips
========

Switch Arceus-Water in aggressively on Pokemon that it can check, such as Primal Groudon, and spread Toxic aggressively, as Defog in conjunction with Toxic often can keep entry hazards off your side fairly well. Avoid getting hit by Toxic; this includes not using it too liberally against a team with a Mega Diancie or Mega Sableye in the back. Try to stay healthy with Recover, as after taking a hit or two with hazards up, it becomes increasingly difficult to check the things that it Water Arceus needs to check. Switching into Primal Kyogre can work on a predicted Ice Beam, Origin Pulse, or Scald, but because of Thunder it is not advisable to stay in, but rather to use it Water Arceus to pivot safely into Primal Groudon.

Team Options
========

Primal Groudon is an effective teammate that checks Electric-types and helps check Kyogre, which takes pressure off of Arceus-Water. Clerics, such as Clefable, Blissey, Diancie, and Xerneas, can heal status that can annoy Arceus-Water, especially Toxic. Ho-Oh appreciates Defog and also can freely switch into Grass-type Pokemon such as Ferrothorn which Arceus-Water may bait. Ferrothorn takes off pressure from Kyogre, and also checks Electric-types. Finally, Tyranitar can check Darkrai and Gengar, which can heavily pressure Arceus-Water.

Other Options
########

Will-O-Wisp is a viable alternative to Toxic, and while it is blocked by Primal Groudon, it can still cripple Salamence and other physical attackers. Stealth Rock can be used by Arceus-Water in the case that no other member of the team can use it, as Stealth Rock is an essential move on any team. Payback can deal respectable damage to Latias, Latios, and Gengar. Lastly, Grass Knot is a viable move to deal heavy damage to Kyogre, which otherwise takes little from Arceus-Water.

Checks & Counters
########

**Steel-types**: While they may might not be able to do too much back to Arceus-Water necessarily, Steel-types are good checks to Arceus-Water as they resist Ice Beam and are immune to Toxic. Klefki can Toxic Arceus-Water and put it on a timer, before setting Spikes, though it takes a decent amount of damage from Judgment.. (extra period) Aegislash can also Toxic Arceus-Water. Dialga is especially notable as its secondary Dragon typing grants it a resistance to Judgment as well.

**Grass-types**: Ferrothorn can use Leech Seed and Toxic, set Stealth Rock or Spikes, and hit Arceus-Water fairly hard with a potential Power Whip. It also takes neutral damage from Ice Beam, resists Judgment, and is immune to Toxic. Grass Arceus-Grass is prone to Toxic, but it does not take too much from Ice Beam and can threaten back with a powerful Grass Knot or Grass-type Judgment.

**Latias and Latios**: Latias and Latios are very solid checks to Arceus-Water, in spite of being weak to Ice Beam. They resist a possible Water-type Judgment, can Roost off damage, and if they are Calm Mind variants, (RC) they can set up and possibly fire off an extremely powerful Draco Meteor. At +1, Latios has a chance to straight up OHKO Arceus-Water with Draco Meteor. Additionally, the uncommon Grass Knot deals a lot of damage to it. However, both Latias and Latios dislike Toxic, (RC) and struggle to overpower Arceus-Water without Calm Mind or Grass Knot.

**Palkia**: While not very common, Palkia has a neutrality to Ice Beam and a quadruple resist to Judgment. Offensive variants can paralyze Arceus-Water with Thunder Wave and proceed to spam Spacial Rend in hopes of a full paralysis, or hit Arceus-Water with a super effective Thunder. More defensively inclined Palkia variants can Rest off Arceus-Water's Toxic and cripple Arceus-Water with a Toxic of its own.

**Electric-types**: Zekrom heavily pressures Arceus-Water with a super effective Bolt Strike, and can also retain momentum through with Volt Switch; however, it dislikes Ice Beam and Will-O-Wisp. Electric Arceus fears Toxic, but still threatens with an Electric-type Judgment and can possibly set up a Calm Mind or two.

**Shadow Tag**: Gothitelle is the most dangerous Shadow Tag user for Arceus-Water, because it Gothitelle can trap it with ease and proceed to set up six Calm Minds, defeat Arceus-Water, and threaten the remainder of Arceus-Water's team. Mega Gengar can use Taunt and force a double KO with Destiny Bond, or can use Perish Song to trap and KO Arceus-Water. Wobbuffet may might not be able to directly beat Arceus-Water, but it can create a free setup opportunity for another member of its team.

**Primal Groudon**: Primal Groudon does not take too much from Ice Beam and is immune to Judgment; however, it hates Toxic. Support variants cannot beat Arceus-Water, as they will be quickly worn down by Toxic, but Rock Polish and Swords Dance variants can set up on Arceus-Water and attempt to overwhelm it.

**Toxic**: Toxic puts Arceus-Water on a timer, limiting the turns it can stay in and Recover off damage or Defog. It is a major annoyance, and can make Arceus-Water easier to defeat, but should not be relied on as a means to beat Arceus-Water.

1/2

Just make sure the Arceus-[type] thing is fixed!

Implemented

 

[aurora]

I decided to am check this

Hide

Overview
########

Water Arceus is a bit of an odd Pokemon in ORAS Ubers. The high usage of Primal Groudon is a bit of a mixed bag, becaus for it: while its immunity to Water-type Judgment greatly reduces the effectiveness of Water Arceus as a mono-attacker; however, Primal Groudon checks a lot of Water Arceus's own checks, such as Zekrom, Ferrothorn, and other Electric- and Grass-types. Water Arceus has great 120 / 120 / 120 bulk and a wide movepool with an array of useful support moves, but is also prone to Toxic, which tends to be thrown around frequently.

Support
########
name: Support
move 1: Recover
move 2: Toxic
move 3: Ice Beam / Defog
move 4: Judgment / Defog
ability: Multitype
item: Splash Plate
evs: 252 HP / 200 Def / 56 Spe
nature: Bold

Moves
========

Recover is a necessary means of reliable recovery that improves longevity and allows Water Arceus to take repeated hits. Toxic puts a timer on Stealth Rock setters, especially Primal Groudon, which does not mind Ice Beam too much, but can be worn down throughout the course of a match by Toxic. Ice Beam hits Salamence super effectively and hits Primal Groudon through harsh sunlight. Judgment is a decently powerful STAB move that hits Ho-Oh, Diancie, and most Steel-types harder. With the decline of Gothitelle, Water Arceus is a reliable Defog user, and it can offer valuable support for a team by clearing entry hazards; Defog can be used over either Ice Beam or Judgment, but AWater Arceus will struggle to hit certain targets if lacking either of these moves.

Set Details
========

Splash Plate is the mandatory item in order to become Water Arceus. 252 HP EVs maximize mixed bulk, and 56 Speed EVs allow Water Arceus to outpace Adamant Rayquaza. The rest of the investment is put into Defense, with a Bold nature to help against the strong physical attackers that dominate the Ubers metagame such as Ho-Oh, Primal Groudon, and Salamence. Other usable Speed benchmarks include 124 Speed with a Bold nature for outspeeding positive-natured max Speed base 90s, and 176 Speed with a Timid Nature for outspeeding positive-natured max Speed base 110s, such as Gengar and some Latios.

Usage Tips
========

Switch Water Arceus in aggressively on Pokemon that it can check, such as Primal Groudon, and spread Toxic aggressively, as Defog in conjunction with Toxic often can keep entry hazards off your side fairly well. Avoid getting hit by Toxic; this includes not using it too liberally against a team with a Mega Diancie or Mega Sableye in the back. Try to stay healthy with Recover, as after taking a hit or two with hazards up, it becomes increasingly difficult to check the things Water Arceus needs to check. Switching into Primal Kyogre can work on a predicted Ice Beam, Origin Pulse, or Scald, but because of Thunder it is not advisable to stay in, but rather to use Water Arceus to pivot safely into Primal Groudon.

Team Options
========

Primal Groudon is an effective teammate that checks Electric-types and helps check Kyogre, which takes pressure off of Water Arceus. Clerics, such as Clefable, Blissey, Diancie, and Xerneas, can heal status that can annoy Water Arceus, especially Toxic. Ho-Oh appreciates Defog and also can freely switch into Grass-type Pokemon such as Ferrothorn which Water Arceus may bait, such as Ferrothorn. Ferrothorn takes off pressure from Kyogre, and checks Electric-types. Finally, Tyranitar can check Darkrai and Gengar, which can heavily pressure Water Arceus.

Other Options
########

Will-O-Wisp is a viable alternative to Toxic, and while it is blocked by Primal Groudon, it can still cripple Salamence and other physical attackers. Stealth Rock can be used by Water Arceus in the case that no other member of the team can use it, as Stealth Rock is an essential move on any team. Payback can deal respectable damage to Latias, Latios, and Gengar. Lastly, Grass Knot is a viable move to deal heavy damage to Kyogre, which otherwise takes little from Water Arceus.

Checks & Counters
########

**Steel-types**: While they might not necessarily be able to do too much back to Water Arceus necessarily, Steel-types are good checks to Water Arceus as they resist Ice Beam and are immune to Toxic. Klefki can Toxic Water Arceus and put it on a timer, before setting Spikes, though it takes a decent amount of damage from Judgment. Aegislash can also Toxic Water Arceus. Dialga is especially notable as its secondary Dragon typing grants it a resistance to Judgment as well.

**Grass-types**: Ferrothorn can use Leech Seed and Toxic, set Stealth Rock or Spikes, and hit Water Arceus fairly hard with a potential Power Whip. It also takes neutral damage from Ice Beam, resists Judgment, and is immune to Toxic. Grass Arceus is prone to Toxic, but it does not take too much from Ice Beam and can threaten back with a powerful Grass Knot or Grass-type Judgment.

**Latias and Latios**: Latias and Latios are very solid checks to Water Arceus, in spite of being weak to Ice Beam. They resist a possible Water-type Judgment, can Roost off damage, and if they are Calm Mind variants can set up and possibly fire off an extremely powerful Draco Meteor. At +1, Latios has a chance to straight up OHKO Water Arceus with Draco Meteor. Additionally, the uncommon Grass Knot deals a lot of damage. However, both Latias and Latios dislike Toxic and struggle to overpower Water Arceus without Calm Mind or Grass Knot.

**Palkia**: While not very common, Palkia haonly takes a neutrality to damage from Ice Beam and has a quadruple resistance to Judgment. Offensive variants can paralyze Water Arceus with Thunder Wave and proceed to spam Spacial Rend in hopes of a full paralysis, or hit Water Arceus with a super effective Thunder. More defensively inclined Palkia variants can Rest off Water Arceus's Toxic and cripple Water Arceus with a Toxic of its own.

**Electric-types**: Zekrom heavily pressures Water Arceus with a super effective Bolt Strike, and can retain momentum with Volt Switch; however, it dislikes Ice Beam and Will-O-Wisp. Electric Arceus fears Toxic, but still threatens with an Electric-type Judgment and can possibly set up a Calm Mind or two.

**Shadow Tag**: Gothitelle is the most dangerous Shadow Tag user for Water Arceus, because Gothitelle can trap it with ease and proceed to set up six Calm Minds, defeat Water Arceus, and threaten the remainder of Water Arceus's team. Mega Gengar can use Taunt and force a double KO with Destiny Bond, or can use Perish Song to trap and KO Water Arceus. Wobbuffet might not be able to directly beat Water Arceus, but it can create a free setup opportunity for another member of its team.

**Primal Groudon**: Primal Groudon does not take too much from Ice Beam and is immune to Judgment; however, it hates Toxic. Support variants cannot beat Water Arceus, as they will be quickly worn down by Toxic, but Rock Polish and Swords Dance variants can set up on Water Arceus and attempt to overwhelm it.

**Toxic**: Toxic puts Water Arceus on a timer, limiting the turns it can stay in and Recover off damage or Defog. It is a major annoyance, and can make Water Arceus easier to defeat, but should not be relied on as a means to beat Water Arceus.

diff

Hide

Overview
########

Water Arceus is a bit of an odd Pokemon in ORAS Ubers. The high usage of Primal Groudon is a bit of a mixed bag for it: while its immunity to Water-type Judgment greatly reduces the effectiveness of Water Arceus as a mono-attacker, Primal Groudon checks a lot of Water Arceus's own checks, such as Zekrom, Ferrothorn, and other Electric- and Grass-types. Water Arceus has great 120 / 120 / 120 bulk and a wide movepool with an array of useful support moves, but is also prone to Toxic, which tends to be thrown around frequently.

Support
########
name: Support
move 1: Recover
move 2: Toxic
move 3: Ice Beam / Defog
move 4: Judgment / Defog
ability: Multitype
item: Splash Plate
evs: 252 HP / 200 Def / 56 Spe
nature: Bold

Moves
========

Recover is a necessary means of reliable recovery that improves longevity and allows Water Arceus to take repeated hits. Toxic puts a timer on Stealth Rock setters, especially Primal Groudon, which does not mind Ice Beam too much but can be worn down throughout the course of a match by Toxic. Ice Beam hits Salamence super effectively and hits Primal Groudon through harsh sunlight. Judgment is a decently powerful STAB move that hits Ho-Oh, Diancie, and most Steel-types harder. With the decline of Gothitelle, Water Arceus is a reliable Defog user, and it can offer valuable support for a team by clearing entry hazards; Defog can be used over either Ice Beam or Judgment, but Water Arceus will struggle to hit certain targets if lacking either of these moves.

Set Details
========

Splash Plate is the mandatory item in order to become Water Arceus. 252 HP EVs maximize mixed bulk, and 56 Speed EVs allow Water Arceus to outpace Adamant Rayquaza. The rest of the investment is put into Defense, with a Bold nature to help against the strong physical attackers that dominate the Ubers metagame such as Ho-Oh, Primal Groudon, and Salamence. Other usable Speed benchmarks include 124 Speed with a Bold nature for outspeeding positive-natured max Speed base 90s, and 176 Speed with a Timid Nature for outspeeding positive-natured max Speed base 110s, such as Gengar and some Latios.

Usage Tips
========

Switch Water Arceus in aggressively on Pokemon that it can check, such as Primal Groudon, and spread Toxic aggressively, as Defog in conjunction with Toxic often can keep entry hazards off your side fairly well. Avoid getting hit by Toxic; this includes not using it too liberally against a team with a Mega Diancie or Mega Sableye in the back. Try to stay healthy with Recover, as after taking a hit or two with hazards up, it becomes increasingly difficult to check the things Water Arceus needs to check. Switching into Primal Kyogre can work on a predicted Ice Beam, Origin Pulse, or Scald, but because of Thunder it is not advisable to stay in, but rather to use Water Arceus to pivot safely into Primal Groudon.

Team Options
========

Primal Groudon is an effective teammate that checks Electric-types and helps check Kyogre, which takes pressure off of Water Arceus. Clerics, such as Clefable, Blissey, Diancie, and Xerneas, can heal status that can annoy Water Arceus, especially Toxic. Ho-Oh appreciates Defog and also can freely switch into Grass-type Pokemon which Water Arceus may bait, such as Ferrothorn. Ferrothorn takes off pressure from Kyogre, and checks Electric-types. Finally, Tyranitar can check Darkrai and Gengar, which can heavily pressure Water Arceus.

Other Options
########

Will-O-Wisp is a viable alternative to Toxic, and while it is blocked by Primal Groudon, it can still cripple Salamence and other physical attackers. Stealth Rock can be used by Water Arceus in the case that no other member of the team can use it, as Stealth Rock is an essential move on any team. Payback can deal respectable damage to Latias, Latios, and Gengar. Lastly, Grass Knot is a viable move to deal heavy damage to Kyogre, which otherwise takes little from Water Arceus.

Checks & Counters
########

**Steel-types**: While they might not necessarily be able to do too much back to Water Arceus, Steel-types are good checks to Water Arceus as they resist Ice Beam and are immune to Toxic. Klefki can Toxic Water Arceus and put it on a timer, before setting Spikes, though it takes a decent amount of damage from Judgment. Aegislash can also Toxic Water Arceus. Dialga is especially notable as its secondary Dragon typing grants it a resistance to Judgment as well.

**Grass-types**: Ferrothorn can use Leech Seed and Toxic, set Stealth Rock or Spikes, and hit Water Arceus fairly hard with a potential Power Whip. It also takes neutral damage from Ice Beam, resists Judgment, and is immune to Toxic. Grass Arceus is prone to Toxic, but it does not take too much from Ice Beam and can threaten back with a powerful Grass Knot or Grass-type Judgment.

**Latias and Latios**: Latias and Latios are very solid checks to Water Arceus, in spite of being weak to Ice Beam. They resist a possible Water-type Judgment, can Roost off damage, and if they are Calm Mind variants can set up and possibly fire off an extremely powerful Draco Meteor. At +1, Latios has a chance to straight up OHKO Water Arceus with Draco Meteor. Additionally, the uncommon Grass Knot deals a lot of damage. However, both Latias and Latios dislike Toxic and struggle to overpower Water Arceus without Calm Mind or Grass Knot.

**Palkia**: While not very common, Palkia only takes neutral damage from Ice Beam and has a quadruple resistance to Judgment. Offensive variants can paralyze Water Arceus with Thunder Wave and proceed to spam Spacial Rend in hopes of a full paralysis, or hit Water Arceus with a super effective Thunder. More defensively inclined Palkia variants can Rest off Water Arceus's Toxic and cripple Water Arceus with a Toxic of its own.

**Electric-types**: Zekrom heavily pressures Water Arceus with a super effective Bolt Strike, and can retain momentum with Volt Switch; however, it dislikes Ice Beam and Will-O-Wisp. Electric Arceus fears Toxic, but still threatens with an Electric-type Judgment and can possibly set up a Calm Mind or two.

**Shadow Tag**: Gothitelle is the most dangerous Shadow Tag user for Water Arceus, because Gothitelle can trap it with ease and proceed to set up six Calm Minds, defeat Water Arceus, and threaten the remainder of Water Arceus's team. Mega Gengar can use Taunt and force a double KO with Destiny Bond, or can use Perish Song to trap and KO Water Arceus. Wobbuffet might not be able to directly beat Water Arceus, but it can create a free setup opportunity for another member of its team.

**Primal Groudon**: Primal Groudon does not take too much from Ice Beam and is immune to Judgment; however, it hates Toxic. Support variants cannot beat Water Arceus, as they will be quickly worn down by Toxic, but Rock Polish and Swords Dance variants can set up on Water Arceus and attempt to overwhelm it.

**Toxic**: Toxic puts Water Arceus on a timer, limiting the turns it can stay in and Recover off damage or Defog. It is a major annoyance, and can make Water Arceus easier to defeat, but should not be relied on as a means to beat Water Arceus.

 

[haxiom]

Aurora am I supposed to implement the check and then wait for GP to check the check or something? Or am I getting mixed up with something?

Anyways, I implemented it.

 

[aurora]

Aurora am I supposed to implement the check and then wait for GP to check the check or something? Or am I getting mixed up with something?

Anyways, I implemented it.

Amateur checks aren't official checks so you can either implement it straight up or wait for GP to stamp it / check over it. If I made any mistakes or left something out a GP member will fix everything up but if not my check will get stamped and the analysis will be done.

 

[Winry]

I know you already implemented this, but I'm quoting Aurora's amcheck so I can give comments :3

Hide

Overview
########

Water Arceus is a bit of an odd Pokemon in ORAS Ubers. The high usage of Primal Groudon is a bit of a mixed bag, becaus for it: while its immunity to Water-type Judgment greatly reduces the effectiveness of Water Arceus as a mono-attacker; however, Primal Groudon checks a lot of Water Arceus's own checks, such as Zekrom, Ferrothorn, and other Electric- and Grass-types. Water Arceus has great 120 / 120 / 120 bulk and a wide movepool with an array of useful support moves, but is also prone to Toxic, which tends to be thrown around frequently.

Support
########
name: Support
move 1: Recover
move 2: Toxic
move 3: Ice Beam / Defog
move 4: Judgment / Defog
ability: Multitype
item: Splash Plate
evs: 252 HP / 200 Def / 56 Spe
nature: Bold

Moves
========

Recover is a necessary means of reliable recovery that improves longevity and allows Water Arceus to take repeated hits. Toxic puts a timer on Stealth Rock setters, especially Primal Groudon, which does not mind Ice Beam too much, but can be worn down throughout the course of a match by Toxic. Ice Beam hits Salamence super effectively and hits Primal Groudon through harsh sunlight. Judgment is a decently powerful STAB move that hits Ho-Oh, Diancie, and most Steel-types harder. With the decline of Gothitelle, Water Arceus is a reliable Defog user, and it can offer valuable support for a team by clearing entry hazards; Defog can be used over either Ice Beam or Judgment, but AWater Arceus will struggle to hit certain targets if lacking either of these moves.

Set Details
========

Splash Plate is the mandatory item in order to become Water Arceus. 252 HP EVs maximize mixed bulk, and 56 Speed EVs allow Water Arceus to outpace Adamant Rayquaza. The rest of the investment is put into Defense, with a Bold nature to help against the strong physical attackers that dominate the Ubers metagame such as Ho-Oh, Primal Groudon, and Salamence. Other usable Speed benchmarks include 124 Speed with a Bold nature for outspeeding positive-natured max Speed base 90s, and 176 Speed with a Timid Nature for outspeeding positive-natured max Speed base 110s, such as Gengar and some Latios.

Usage Tips
========

Switch Water Arceus in aggressively on Pokemon that it can check, such as Primal Groudon, and spread Toxic aggressively, [repetition] as Defog in conjunction with Toxic often can keep entry hazards off your side fairly well. Avoid getting hit by Toxic; this includes not using it too liberally against a team with a Mega Diancie or Mega Sableye in the back. Try to stay healthy with Recover, as after taking a hit or two with entry hazards up, it becomes increasingly difficult to check the things Water Arceus needs to check. Switching into Primal Kyogre can work on a predicted Ice Beam, Origin Pulse, or Scald, but because of Thunder it is not advisable to stay in, but rather to use Water Arceus to pivot safely into Primal Groudon.

Team Options
========

Primal Groudon is an effective teammate that checks Electric-types and helps check Kyogre, which takes pressure off of Water Arceus. Clerics, such as Clefable, Blissey, Diancie, and Xerneas, can heal status that can annoy Water Arceus, especially Toxic. Ho-Oh appreciates Defog and also can freely switch into Grass-type Pokemon such as Ferrothorn, [ac] which Water Arceus may bait, such as Ferrothorn. [Either placement of "such as Ferrothorn" works because the movement doesn't clarify any ambiguity as it may in some cases. Also, there should be a comma before "which" because the rest of sentence is additional info] Ferrothorn takes off pressure from Kyogre, [rc; if there is a comma befre "and" the remainder of the sentence needs to have a subject. you could also say "and it checks" to add that subject] and checks Electric-types. Finally, Tyranitar can check Darkrai and Gengar, which can heavily pressure Water Arceus.

Other Options
########

Will-O-Wisp is a viable alternative to Toxic, and while it is blocked by Primal Groudon, it can still cripple Salamence and other physical attackers. Stealth Rock can be used by Water Arceus in the case that no other member of the team can use it, as Stealth Rock is an essential move on any team. Payback can deal respectable damage to Latias, Latios, and Gengar. Lastly, Grass Knot is a viable move to deal heavy damage to Kyogre, which otherwise takes little from Water Arceus.

Checks & Counters
########

**Steel-types**: While they might not necessarily be able to do too much back to Water Arceus necessarily, Steel-types are good checks to Water Arceus, [ac; comma before "as" if it functions like "because"] as they resist Ice Beam and are immune to Toxic. Klefki can Toxic Water Arceus and put it on a timer, [rc] before setting Spikes, though it takes a decent amount of damage from Judgment. Aegislash can also Toxic Water Arceus. Dialga is especially notable, [ac] as its secondary Dragon typing grants it a resistance to Judgment as well.

**Grass-types**: Ferrothorn can use Leech Seed and Toxic, set up Stealth Rock or Spikes, and hit Water Arceus fairly hard with a potential Power Whip. It also takes neutral damage from Ice Beam, resists Judgment, and is immune to Toxic. Grass Arceus is prone to Toxic, but it does not take too much from Ice Beam and can threaten back with a powerful Grass Knot or Grass-type Judgment.

**Latias and Latios**: Latias and Latios are very solid checks to Water Arceus, in spite of being weak to Ice Beam. They resist a possible Water-type Judgment, can Roost off damage, and, [ac] if they are Calm Mind variants, [ac] can set up and possibly fire off an extremely powerful Draco Meteor. At +1, Latios has a chance to straight up OHKO Water Arceus with Draco Meteor. Additionally, the uncommon Grass Knot deals a lot of damage. However, both Latias and Latios dislike Toxic and struggle to overpower Water Arceus without Calm Mind or Grass Knot.

**Palkia**: While not very common, Palkia haonly takes a neutrality to damage from Ice Beam and has a quadruple resistance to Judgment. Offensive variants can paralyze Water Arceus with Thunder Wave and proceed to spam Spacial Rend in hopes of a full paralysis, [rc] or hit Water Arceus with a super effective Thunder. More defensively inclined Palkia variants can Rest off Water Arceus's Toxic and cripple Water Arceus with a Toxic of its own.

**Electric-types**: Zekrom heavily pressures Water Arceus with a super effective Bolt Strike, [rc] and can retain momentum with Volt Switch; however, it dislikes Ice Beam and Will-O-Wisp. Electric Arceus fears Toxic, but still threatens with an Electric-type Judgment and can possibly set up a Calm Mind or two.

**Shadow Tag**: Gothitelle is the most dangerous Shadow Tag user for Water Arceus, because Gothitelle can trap it with ease and proceed to set up six Calm Minds, defeat Water Arceus, and threaten the remainder of Water Arceus's team. Mega Gengar can use Taunt and force a double KO with Destiny Bond, or it [same as comma before and] can use Perish Song to trap and KO Water Arceus. Wobbuffet might not be able to directly beat Water Arceus, but it can create a free setup opportunity for another member of its team.

**Primal Groudon**: Primal Groudon does not take too much from Ice Beam and is immune to Judgment; however, it hates Toxic. Support variants cannot beat Water Arceus, as they will be quickly worn down by Toxic, but Rock Polish and Swords Dance variants can set up on Water Arceus and attempt to overwhelm it.

**Toxic**: Toxic puts Water Arceus on a timer, limiting the turns it can stay in and Recover off damage or Defog. It is a major annoyance, [rc] and can make Water Arceus easier to defeat, but should not be relied on as a means to beat Water Arceus.

2/2

 

[haxiom]

Implemented. This is done.

 

[Sweep]

uploaded~