Averagemons

[MAMP]

This has been brought up in virtually every OM discussion, but why is shedinja banned? It's supposed to be hard coded to only have 1 HP, not just base 1. It can't be increased by EVs/IVs, so shouldn't the same be applied here? It would have functionally 0 defenses as is, since it's impossible (w/o screens I guess) to deal less than 1 damage, which means 1, mold breaker beats it with anything, 2, any sort of residual damage kills it, and 3, it basically would have a 300 BST. It could still be broken, but I'm not sure it would be.

Shedinja was banned under Fusxfaranto's original banlist for reasons I am not aware of, and I'm hesitant to unban it because I'm unclear on the exact mechanics of its HP. With 1 HP it would be fine, but with base 100 HP it might be a bit broken. Can someone link me some evidence for how Shedinja's HP works this generation? Because I've gotten a lot of conflicting information regarding that.

 

[Arcticblast]

In this generation it's actually base 1 that is hardcoded to have 1 HP.

V4Victini can you confirm this and/or ask Marty to confirm this?

 

[Esprite]

I'll confirm it. Take Tier Shift, for example. #rekt.

 

[Arcticblast]

I'll confirm it. Take Tier Shift, for example. #rekt.

Are you V4?

Tier Shift was generally acknowledged to be breaking Shedinja mechanics when it first started. It's possible that just hasn't changed.

 

[V4Victini]

In Gen 5 Shedinja was hardcoded to have 1 HP. Base 1 is not hardcoded to have 1 HP. In Gen 6 it is unknown whether or not this has changed, so, unless there is some research out there that proves otherwise, it would be more accurate to assume it acts the same as it did last gen.

I'll double check with Marty and see if I can find anyone who can actually confirm it if it is still unknown.

 

[MAMP]

(meant to do this ages ago but forgot to post it lol)

Arena Trap and Shadow Tag are banned, Gothita line unbanned

I've been talking to some people about this, and the general consensus is that trapping is bad for the Averagemons metagame. Most trappers are managable in standard tiers due to their weak stats, making them generally limited in their utility. However, in Averagemons all trappers actually have very respectable stats, and are able to trap and take out a wide variety of mons. The most dangerous trapper is Dugtrio, which can threaten a huge range of mons with STAB Earthquake, Stone Edge and Sucker Punch, and it can support the team with Memento and Stealth Rock, as well as pull some bullshit with Final Gambit. Dugtrio forms very dangerous cores when paired with the likes of Dragalge or Talonflame, which it can remove Steel and Rock types for, respectively, making them almost unstoppable; people have resorted to crap like Shed Shell to deal with this. Other trappers are not quite as unhealthy as Dugtrio, but I feel that trapping is just really overcentralising and uncompetitive in general, and thus Arena Trap and Shadow Tag have been banned. The Gothita line is unbanned bc they suck without Shadow Tag

 

[Martin]

This sounds fun!

The only thing which concerns me here is creep wars...

 

[MAMP]

(meant to do this ages ago but forgot to post it lol)

Arena Trap and Shadow Tag are banned, Gothita line unbanned

I've been talking to some people about this, and the general consensus is that trapping is bad for the Averagemons metagame. Most trappers are managable in standard tiers due to their weak stats, making them generally limited in their utility. However, in Averagemons all trappers actually have very respectable stats, and are able to trap and take out a wide variety of mons. The most dangerous trapper is Dugtrio, which can threaten a huge range of mons with STAB Earthquake, Stone Edge and Sucker Punch, and it can support the team with Memento and Stealth Rock, as well as pull some bullshit with Final Gambit. Dugtrio forms very dangerous cores when paired with the likes of Dragalge or Talonflame, which it can remove Steel and Rock types for, respectively, making them almost unstoppable; people have resorted to crap like Shed Shell to deal with this. Other trappers are not quite as unhealthy as Dugtrio, but I feel that trapping is just really overcentralising and uncompetitive in general, and thus Arena Trap and Shadow Tag have been banned. The Gothita line is unbanned bc they suck without Shadow Tag

just realised i forgot to tag people to get this implemented on ps lol, The Immortal, Joim

So this post isn't a complete waste of space, I'll drop a set I've been using:

Hydreigon @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 Spe
Impish Nature
- Roost
- Crunch
- Thunder Wave / Roar / Toxic / Taunt / Dragon Tail
- Thunder Wave / Roar / Toxic / Taunt / Dragon Tail

(im 100% positive there is a more efficient ev spread than this, i just cant be bothered to work it out)

Hydreigon may seem like an odd choice for a defensive Pokemon, but it is actually very effective; its typing gives it a niche on more defensive teams as pretty much the only reliable counter to CM Swoobat, as well as being a pretty good stop to offensive Primal Groudon and Crawdaunt (sans Superpower). It also has a surprisingly broad utility movepool - apart from the options listed above, it also has Tailwind, U-turn and Torment. However, it does have quite a few common weaknesses, and doesn't really have any way to stop Clefable from coming in and forcing it out, which is an issue considering that Clefable is probably the most common mon in Averagemons. Unfortunately I don't have a replay of this set in action :/ i think adrian came up with the idea of using hydreigon, so credit to him i guess

 

[Joim]

Done.

 

[Esprite]

Are you V4?

Tier Shift was generally acknowledged to be breaking Shedinja mechanics when it first started. It's possible that just hasn't changed.

Nope. It's 1 hp that is hardcoded to be 1 HP. If you hacked R/S, and gave Shedinja an HP stat higher than one, it's HP would calculate normally, and if you gave another pokemon one HP, it'll have one HP.

 

[Kit Kasai]

Nope. It's 1 hp that is hardcoded to be 1 HP. If you hacked R/S, and gave Shedinja an HP stat higher than one, it's HP would calculate normally, and if you gave another pokemon one HP, it'll have one HP.

Where is your evidence? The whole reason V4Victini was tagged was to actually confirm this.

 

[V4Victini]

Nope. It's 1 hp that is hardcoded to be 1 HP. If you hacked R/S, and gave Shedinja an HP stat higher than one, it's HP would calculate normally, and if you gave another pokemon one HP, it'll have one HP.

>R/S

In Gen 5 Shedinja was hardcoded to have 1 HP. Base 1 is not hardcoded to have 1 HP.

 

[MaestroDeSWAG]

So then, that brings us back to my question: why is shedinja banned? It's not going to behave any differently than it always has (as it concerns bulk), and honestly, when you take into account the fact that only its offensive stats are relevant, it may not be that dangerous after all. It still dies to hazards and stuff, it's attack only increases by 10, and now their are a lot of things that can totally take it on. Unaware clefable comes to mind. It can smack you in the face w/ a fireblast/flamethrower and shrug off anything you can hit it w/ like nothing happened. I don't know, maybe I'm crazy, but it def seems very manageable

 

[MAMP]

Sableye + Prankster has been banned, Sableye is now legal

Normally I'm opposed to complex bans, but this one is to allow Mega Sableye in the tier, which should be a valuable addition to stall and balance teams, and help to counteract the large number of spike stacking teams infesting the metagame. Note that this is not a precedent; if i ever ban Venomoth or something, don't be asking for a Venomoth + Baton Pass ban or anything.

Joim, The Immortal

 

[truedrew]

Loved it back in cyan really hope it gets made into a permanent ladder as it was quite popular and it paves way for a very balanced meta which allows innovation and doesn't really have any "broken" things apart from the bans of course

Now there are a few underrated threats that can shine in this meta

Baton pass: although smeargle is banned, pokemon like scolipede ninjask and 420 blazekin can be very effective passers into pokemon like pgod and crawdaunt as with the increased bulk, they have an easier time setting up and can turn the recipient's into deadly win cons granted that unaware clef or whom ever is dead or sufficiently damaged. The increased threat is that the recipient can run more bulky spreads making them harder to revenge kill. Last but not least smash pass is also deadly when paired with something good like xerneas as it makes it a bit OTT due to fairy aura boosting it's STAB and it's amazing mixed coverage truly allows it to abuse the pass well. Also due to the fact it can run life orb/item makes it even more threatening

Secondly I see a rise in dedicated trappers like magma tran, whirlpool azu or mean look gengar on offense as it will allow offensive teams to get rid of unaware mons and potentially sweep from there and this supports the aforementioned bpass even more making it a very potent combo.

Lastly I would just like to point out that all the ate megas are really nice I this meta as their additional power boost makes walling them a bit harder (specs sylveon hype!!) Also aegislash is very cool just for the animations xd

Overall very good reMAMP

 

[MANNAT]

I just wanted to point out that a lot of prevos outclass their evolutions because of newfound bulk and Greninja/Talonflame are arguably better than they are in regular OU.

 

[truedrew]

I just wanted to point out that a lot of prevos outclass their evolutions because of newīfound bulk and Greninja/Talonflame are arguably better than they are in regular OU.

The only ones I can think on the top of my head would be skrelp, larvitar (which ever one gets guts) and maybe shellder
skrelp sue to reasons discussed on the first page like 3rd post
Larv/pupitar due to guts and edge quake plus being status absorbers as well as spamming super facade
shellder cuz good spinner and setter tho better ones exist

Also lucario mega is a devastating mega to use as adaptibillity bullet punch allows it to check bdrum slurpuff very well

252+ Atk Adaptability Mega Lucario Bullet Punch vs. 52 HP / 0 Def Slurpuff: 160-192 (45.1 - 54.2%) -- 44.1% chance to 2HKO
(160, 164, 164, 168, 168, 172, 172, 176, 176, 180, 180, 184, 184, 188, 188, 192)

 

[Mr155551]

a lot of people forget that lucario mega also has really good sp.attack even regular luke and i don't understand why

 

[26DUDE26]

a lot of people forget that lucario mega also has really good sp.attack even regular luke and i don't understand why

which doesnt matter in averagemons, though it does get pretty good special moves

 

[MAMP]

Mega Luke is actually a pretty neat sweeper in Averagemons, with either Swords Dance or Nasty Plot; its very powerful with Adaptability, has priority, and it can break Unaware Clefable with steel moves. However, it does use up your mega slot.

 

[Throbulator36]

Mega Luke is actually a pretty neat sweeper in Averagemons, with either Swords Dance or Nasty Plot; its very powerful with Adaptability, has priority, and it can break Unaware Clefable with steel moves. However, it does use up your mega slot.

list of mega pokemon that can be worth using

1. absol
2. aerodactyl
3. aggron
4. altaria
5. banette?
6. camerupt?
7. charizard-x
8. diancie?
9. glalie?
10. gyarados
11. lopunny
12. manectric
13. metagross
14. mewtwo-x
15. pidgeot
16. sableye
17. sharpedo
18. venusaur
19. heracross
20. pinsir
21. kangaskhan(if its still legal)
22. lucario
23. salamence?
24. houndoom?
25. rayquaza

 

[truedrew]

I would say that megas are all useful but depending on the team set up some might be better than others. For example on stall you are more likely to see megas that can be a pain to deal with like aggron or sableye as they have very useful abilities which allows them to serve a niche and make them useful over their base form or an alternative pokemon as the stats are all the same. Similarly for offensive megas it's worth noting that many become obsolete as there are regular pokemon that full fill their role due to themail averaging out of stats (mega gallade vs regular or zard y vs ninetails as I believe X2 rocks +no mega >flying stab and mega and even mega blastoise vs clawitzer or even urgh u get it )

Tl;dr megas are dependent on their abilities due to stay averaging insuring that nothing is special about them except their ability

 

[Imperator Romanum]

Agreeing that Groudon looks amazing in this meta as a wall breaker / cleaner

Thinking about a set like this:
Groudon @ Red Orb
Ability: Drought
Idk nature and evs prob 248 hp
- Earthquake / Precipice Blades
- Fire Blast / Overheat
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Stone Edge / Substitute / Rock Polish / Whatever

Try walling this XD

Quagsire? Clefable?

 

[Imperator Romanum]

Congratulations on Leaders choice :]

 

[EV]

+

+

This regen core gave me a lot of grief last time I played Averagemons. Now that it's up for LCotM (or however we're doing that acronym,) what are some viable mons that can break through?

Some things I notice about the trio is it lacks a Rock and Psychic resist. Anyone want to build off of that?