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np: UU Stage 2.1 - You Are Invited
- Thread starter Sam
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If you want to bring Vic back why did you ban him.
Also Choice Banded Boltstrike +Glaciate
Rips apart modt mons.
There should be a suspect test for Victini, not because everybody loves it, but because of how the metagame is running with bulky waters and such. Victini will be a diverse mon to play with with Banded sets, Scarf sets, Special LO sets, PuP Sets. I like how it can beat most of the current walls in the metagame right now.
252 Atk Victini V-create vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Blissey: 444-523 (62.1 - 73.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Victini Bolt Strike vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Suicune: 156-184 (38.6 - 45.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Choice Band Victini Bolt Strike vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Suicune: 232-274 (57.4 - 67.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Choice Band Victini Bolt Strike vs. 232 HP / 252+ Def Alomomola: 294-348 (55.5 - 65.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
4 SpA Victini Energy Ball vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Quagsire: 368-436 (93.4 - 110.6%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Choice Band Victini V-create vs. 144 HP / 188 Def Thick Fat Snorlax: 204-241 (41 - 48.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery walled
Pros: Definitely will make the metagame more interesting and reduce the number of bulky waters, grass and such, shits on stall teams which are successful nowadays.
Cons: Sets are hard to figure out, and might need sacking some mons.
Therefore, I think a suspect test would be wise to see how the current metagame deals with it.
252 Atk Victini V-create vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Blissey: 444-523 (62.1 - 73.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Victini Bolt Strike vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Suicune: 156-184 (38.6 - 45.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Choice Band Victini Bolt Strike vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Suicune: 232-274 (57.4 - 67.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Choice Band Victini Bolt Strike vs. 232 HP / 252+ Def Alomomola: 294-348 (55.5 - 65.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
4 SpA Victini Energy Ball vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Quagsire: 368-436 (93.4 - 110.6%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Choice Band Victini V-create vs. 144 HP / 188 Def Thick Fat Snorlax: 204-241 (41 - 48.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery walled
Pros: Definitely will make the metagame more interesting and reduce the number of bulky waters, grass and such, shits on stall teams which are successful nowadays.
Cons: Sets are hard to figure out, and might need sacking some mons.
Therefore, I think a suspect test would be wise to see how the current metagame deals with it.
I'm not advocating for a suspect nor retest. But here are some big CONS for Victini
- V-create does have it's downside of lowering defenses and speed. Leaving it vunerable to be revenge killed. Pursuit M-Aerodactyl is a big thing now, allowing Feraligatr/Salamence/Tyrantrum to set up DDance could be game changing(Or really giving any of them an easy switch in like that.)
- It's bulky stat wise, but typing wise is horrible. Being Stealth Rock weak with alot of weaknesses does not help. UU is equipped with alot of Victini's weaknesses.
- Great coverages but also the same as V-create in that it leaves you very vunerable to be revenge killed or pursuit trapped. CB bolt strike hits hard but I would hate to allow another set up sweeper to come in.
- 4MMS. It has coverage for days but sadly can't run all the coverage. It'll mostly always be running Fire+Electric so thats a given, then coverage in the form of energy ball, focus blast, psychic, u-turn, glaciate. It looks similar to Greninja minus the ability to get STAB on all of them. But all in all with great coverage comes great moveslot syndrome
I get that seeing new things is always cool and everyone likes a breath of fresh air every now and then, but sometimes I think people need to realise when they already have a good thing. I immensely enjoy ORAS UU, and I don't think anything can be argued that it would positively impact the tier enough to make it preferable from the metagame we already have, where nothing is outright broken although there are very strong threats such as Gatr and there's enough diversity to keep it from becoming too stale. If there was a retest that actually had notable advantages to making the metagame better than it already is, I'd be all for it, but at the moment I think most calls for retests are borne out of the want just for something new that might not improve the metagame in the long term.
i didnt you fucking wanker
Yes you did.
With Pokemon like Feraligatr and Suicune literally dominating this metagame, would re-introducing Thundurus-T be a way to "solve" this issue? Kinda like the Aegislash suspect in OU right now - take an offensive Pokemon that balances an element of the metagame and see if it works. Just a thought. I haven't invested much into it.kokoloko's vote from the Victini suspect test said:
goddamnit i was going to make that post.
Have you played the OU suspect ladder? It's repulsive. Thundurus-T doesnt need a retest.
My main problem with this is that a mon blanket checking a large amount of threats is (especially the Aegi suspect) it is majorly overcentralizing. I personally do not think the meta has changed enough from when we last tested torn for it to be any less broken. Imo our problems are not in what to bring down more so what to get rid of, if anything that is, since two mons could and have been considered broken by quite a few players. Gatr and pidge being the two I am referring to however I could see cases being made for other mons but I will leave that to other people. Overall a case could be made to suspect uu mons better than a mon dropping to uu.
Torn is moving up to OU by usage anyway so we can't retest it. Anyway I don't think Torn with ever get let back in if it ever falls to BL again. I just feel it's impossible to handle it cause it can easily pivot due to Regenerator+U-turn keeping it healthy. Not to mention very little can switch into its Flying+Fighting coverage, plus knock off cause knock off. It can run AV to make it extremely difficult to OHKO, so unless you OHKO, it will pivot out and regen, not to mention it outspeeds mostly every defensive mon that wants to eat up its attack and go into the appropriate counter. It probably doesn't matter, I'm just ranting we all know how broken it is.
How would Thundurus-T even solve the "Gatr and Suicune problem"? Thundurus-T can't revenge a +1 Gatr, and if you're talking about boostless Gatr then we already have a plethora of mons that deal with it. And if you say Scarf, every other scarfer in the tiers deals with it as well. Suicune isn't even that dominant in the meta right now and there's also a ton of good mons like Rotom-C, Shaymin, Roserade, and Heliolisk that can deal with pretty much every set.
All Thundurus-T would do would give offense yet another toy to play with. I don't know about you guys, but I've found Volt Turn offense to be a very good play style in the meta right now, perhaps even the best. I don't think it needs another threat to add to its repertoire.
All Thundurus-T would do would give offense yet another toy to play with. I don't know about you guys, but I've found Volt Turn offense to be a very good play style in the meta right now, perhaps even the best. I don't think it needs another threat to add to its repertoire.
Thundy T would be interesting but I don't think it would solve anything...there is no way that shit would not be broken. That being said this meta is starting to get somewhat stale and with the closest yet so far mon from getting a retest is victini, I'm just going to pray that we get some cool drops because UU is starting to get a bit boring. I understand it is difficult to just throw down mons to suspect because there is no point in suspecting a lot of BL mons as they would be broken af. It's not that big of a deal as it forces players to think creatively when teambuilding which is a good thing and helps a lot of people out in discovering cool threats and spicing things up on their own.
I agree with OG_Wanka. I think all this banter of letting broken mons in for a test is just a plea for innovation! UU ladder is a little stale. I only enjoy uu right now because of the stuff the forums put on. Maybe someone can talk to aim and convince ou coucil to give us something we can use such as Zapdos, metagross, or maybe even conkeldurr. I like the balanced tier but if its not changing, then I dont want to to be playing.
I'm afraid this is impossible because of Smogon policy on tier shifts, such a thing only ever happened to Medicham recently, and only because it was already RU in the past for the same reasons it was artificially dropped recently(mega being banned to BL). Anyway, usage shifts are happening very soon, likely removing Hippowdon and bringing Mamoseine, Mandibuzz and Gallade, although only Mandibuzz has a sure shot at not being banned.
You can't "convince" the OU council to drop stuff to UU. That's decided by UU. Metagross will likely never drop unless Metagrossite is banned in OU.
edit: ninja'd
At the end of the day UU is in the best position unlike the other tiers in so much that even if it reaches a balanced point that isn't to say changes aren't possible outside of unbanning since drop downs from OU, which are inevitable, occurs with enough frequency to change the tier. Same goes for mons that end up going OU by usage. That said my sentiments are with Freeroamer in that like it or not UU is in a pretty good state, it may seem boring but down the line it can't be avoided a balanced tier is simply like that. Besides it is still going to be dynamic down the line once OU has made some decision regarding the borderline cases, either way it is a waiting game.
If it is that boring to wait well... you're always free to try other tiers, I know I did with OU, and contribute there - at the very least I do find this gen OU far more playable than the last one with weather wars (people may not be happy by diversity but I always welcome it).
I'm really questioning the "metagame is stale, unban X" mentality. Scrambling to answer to something like Thundurus-T sounds a lot less fun than the UU we have right now, which is honestly the best it's been in a long while.
That pretty much sums up how I feel about ORAS UU right now. To those complaining that the metagame is stale or boring, I encourage you to look for new toys to play with within the tier, rather than outside of it. Experiment with different playstyles and unexplored Pokemon, I promise you there are far too many of them for you to get bored of. Use a LO Tailwind or Bulk Up 3 Attacks Tornadus, a Specs Yanmega, TR LO Reuniclus, Agility Feraligatr, all 'mons with tons of potential that hardly see any usage, and there's plenty more.
Dad's Dad
Banned deucer.
Not really u_u
If it's that boring just run SD Mega-Abomasnow and sweep the metagame it's very fun
It's not that big of a deal as it forces players to think creatively when teambuilding which is a good thing and helps a lot of people out in discovering cool threats and spicing things up on their own.
Thats literally a quote from my post wtf. Also, There was literally one person who suggested thunderus T and then came a bunch of comments below it saying that bringing down thundy T is a bad idea. Nobody else agrees with that statement.....
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It is always possible to come up with refreshing without having to bring an "arguably broken pokemon for the tier" in order to just shake up the meta.
Explore other possibilities, check the lower part of the viability rankings to see what are the redeeming qualities in order to stay ranked, check rankings from past gens and see if this unranked mons in this gen have some perks to be ranked again, check if past gens sets work in the meta one way or the other. Use stuff that sees little to no usage and see how good it is. Plenty of ways to spice things up.
Let me tell you specs yanmega is a God punching holes into your standard balanced (fat) cores.
When a meta has reaching a point where you have no other choice that to go with the "Standard build" cause of broken stuff or whatever, then the meta becomes stale. This isnt the case for UU, there are plenty of room to be creative but people must be willing to try that, otherwise it is pointless and will keep calling the metagame stale.
Explore other possibilities, check the lower part of the viability rankings to see what are the redeeming qualities in order to stay ranked, check rankings from past gens and see if this unranked mons in this gen have some perks to be ranked again, check if past gens sets work in the meta one way or the other. Use stuff that sees little to no usage and see how good it is. Plenty of ways to spice things up.
Let me tell you specs yanmega is a God punching holes into your standard balanced (fat) cores.
When a meta has reaching a point where you have no other choice that to go with the "Standard build" cause of broken stuff or whatever, then the meta becomes stale. This isnt the case for UU, there are plenty of room to be creative but people must be willing to try that, otherwise it is pointless and will keep calling the metagame stale.
This might be a fun thing to try, especially if st123 would like to finally do this ;)
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