Ubers community

[MrAldo]

Hi, Im honestly not into Ubers in general but I try to get in touch with whatever happens in the section of the community and try to discuss the state of the current metagame and ask for opinions on knowledgeable people in this metagame. Ill like to discuss some points:

- I sincerely dont see the problem with suspecting something if the goal is to achieve a better metagame overall. Isnt even the creation of AG or if ubers has always been surrounded by centralizing threats, the thing is... the current state of the metagame is extremely undesirable cause ORAS and the 6th gen brought an extreme level of power creep and overcentralization like, primal groudon bring this concept to a whole new level being a mon that makes a lot of the tier pretty unviable or just not viable at all while having no sort of risk in using it. Primal Kyogre is just as good if you ask me but it is lesser primal cause primal groudon ability is far more beneficial for it and pdon having a secondary ground STAB to boot, and if pdon leaves this could be just as borked. There is megamence and geoxern being extremely powerful set-ut sweepers and other threats to consider making a consistent playaround impossible and having to outplay the opponent to being able to breathe all the time isnt something I will call manageable.
Like there is nothing wrong in suspect testing and potentially banning something if that is really bad for the tier and stop its development, at least there is a consideration for an extra ladder without primals and megamence so thats a start (at least thats what some have been saying...)

- There is no point in making different projects if something isnt done to fix some aspects of the tier to an extent, straight up. Trying to study something "broken" for the sake of studying and doing something different. It is noble but pretty pointless. Something needs to be done at first, even a minimal change of something broken can be beneficial. Like, there is always room for creativity but if you ask me, trying to be creative on ORAS Ubers using "underrated" mons puts you in an extreme disadvantage making building pretty stale and repetitive cause you gotta use just the best options all the time.

- Emphasizing more on the extra ladder without "primals and friends" option, this could a good place for people to start some healthy discussion and bring the attention in ORAS Ubers for the best. It is quite the deviation to fix the problem IMO but it is a pretty good start for potential discussions.

- The Ubers toxicity discussion isnt something that can be fixed right way sadly, egos float around and many influential people to the tier just get away acting and being terrible presences giving a bad image to the outsiders or to individuals that want to test the tier making it very unwelcoming. Not sure if there are ways to fix this in the community in general sadly, but Ubers easily take the spotlight for a lot of recent events :/ :/

I know Ubers sustained itself all this generations cause stuff through each tier has been inherently dominant but manageable to an extent, and this has developed and "no ban philosophy" but right now the power creep and levels of centralization ORAS is impossible to handle and something needs to be done, there is never late to make a change on Ubers philosophy right now. Mega Rayquaza was the start and if Ubers wants to be a called "a tier" and lessen the backslash it is receiving it needs to start behaving like one.

 

[Krauersaut]

Did people completely miss this? Right now a lot of the opposition to things seems to be a bunch of theorymonning, can't we actually test a new meta and get some ACTUAL discussion going on if the meta actually improves or not with pdon and mega mence gone, even if it isnt exactly a suspect test? Even so, a lot of people seem to be assuming that a suspect test means a ban, when that isn't the case. It's a chance to test the meta without the mon in question, and if its really as bad as people say it is then it'll just be voted no ban easily. But we should really be learning from our mistakes and try to get something done instead of running away from them (the shadow tag suspect). It feels like people are just trying to use whatever excuse they can to avoid the real issue here, imo at least. If the meta is cancerous as fuck to play, how do you expect the community to be any better? Like someone said earlier, when almost every player including it's own leader doesn't enjoy the tier whatsoever, theres a problem, so we be focused on making the tier as fun and diverse as possible first and foremost, not just saying "if you dont like it too bad".

I don't think the lack of moderation is the problem with the community at all actually, Sweep and Fireburn have really upped their game in that regard lately. The problem lies in the fact that theres literally nothing to do, and the meta is boring as fuck with everyone having the same exact teams so no one is motivated to play/get involved. So drama unfolds as people find things to do.

even though quoting yourself isn't the best way to further an argument, i do completely agree. if we take Ubers to have become an official, tournament-played metagame, why not reshape policy to reflect those changes? for instance, the OU No-Mega ladder, or something along the lines of it, would be nothing but beneficial for this tier - as haunter said, an opportunity to test the meta without, say, PDon / Megamence / whatever, and conform/balance as needed, couldn't hurt.

i completely understand the tentativeness to stray so far from ubers' roots, but what must be understood is that ubers has evolved (no pun intended) from that point into what is recognized as an official metagame, and as such, should be balanced, policies, moderated and played as one, and that includes potential suspects. obviously that comes back around to the whole "ubers community" thing, especially looking at our first (last?) suspect test's turn out, but that is a seperate issue that should be adressed fittingly.

 

[Stratos]

Ok I've been lurking here a ton lately after being tutored in Ubers by Sweep since I honestly thought it would be a fun tier and community to get into, but after seeing some of the recent events it's really troubling to see a great tier be brought down like this. At this point, no number of infractions would stop the hostility between players here, since everyone loves to call each other out for basically anything, and it just scares newer users away from posting out of fear for being called out and being called a "random" and such (because I know I have definitely felt this way).

If I'm going to be completely honest here, I feel like the reason for this hostility is the lack of projects and things to do, so they resort to drama as their source of entertainment. Ubers has been stale as hell lately, and there's barely any unique projects going on in this subforum. Almost every active thread is a tournament thread or a thread that's copy pasted from another tier and just formatted for ubers. Discussion is scarce due to this, as the only place where people can actively talk and for new users to join is in the viability rankings thread. If you look at the old BW Ubers subforum, theres quite a few different kinds of suspect threads and projects that only really apply to ubers, and everyone loved BW Ubers due to the great metagame and forum. People should be focused on thinking up new projects and ideas to help the subforum thrive, ways for existing members to discuss the tier they used to love and places where a new user to join easily, because right now you're scaring literally anyone who wants to join ubers away.

Hell, the best way to even try to fix the problems you guys are facing right now is a suspect test (ik this isnt the place to discuss bans, but i showed sweep this post before posting and he said its fine and would support it). Yes, I'm aware that the shadow tag fiasco still leaves a sour taste in everyone's mouth, but let's face it. A suspect test would open up a TON of discussion, it would bring tons of new users in to see ubers actually suspecting something, and now that ubers is a tier, shouldn't our main focus be to make the tier as fun and diverse as possible for the players? Regardless of the fact that most playstyles are viable in some way, you're really shooting yourself in the foot when basically every team is pdon/xern/mega mence/ekiller/filler/filler.

A similar idea would to have a seperate ladder from the normal ubers ladder, maybe ubers minus pdon and mega mence, similar to the OU No Mega Ladder and the UU No Scald ladder. It generates discussion, and it lets us see if we've got an improved meta without those two that isn't solely based on theorymonning. I'm aware it's a long shot, but looking at how the subforum is right now, there's not much else you can do.

there are threads on the front page of the doubles subforum whose last post was in 2014, and it's a joy to participate in. I agree that having things to do can help avoid drama, but a dead forum doesn't instantly produce drama. it's just an attitude thing. being upset when others in the community do better than you is what causes drama.

ps: fuck discussion threads, the way to generate community is tournaments. the winter seasonal has worked like a charm for DOU.

edit: i'd like to add though, a tournament won't work without a spirit of brotherliness. DOU players congratulate people on their wins, which is the only reason it works so well. The community leaders need to put in the effort to make this culture happen.

 

[teamsnickers]

In the ubers room if you talk about anything they dont like you will get banned... even talk for a moment about suspecting primal groudon or anything and boop muted lol cmon guys this aint the way

as spydragon said talking and opening yourself up to new ideas is a good thing!!
"
Yes Sweep, I think your meta being stale is a factor but the root cause is the people involved to begin with. The players who acknowledge this cancerous attitude conveyed by numerous individuals need to step in and address it as such, such as yourself with this thread. Thankfully I've seen some cases of this happening by respected players who deserve their recognition and are exemplary role models. I'm also agreeing with the above sentiments that players should not be trying to be jackasses towards the ones playing the game. I get a little fun and a little rowdiness here and there cause that's what makes the scene entertaining but some of you guys that aren't even able to make it half way through a ladder that you can bullshit your way up through with just spamming the entire S rank category, shouldn't even be talking about how a player did bad." Am summed it up pretty gud

 

[Lord Outrage]

News Flash: There's VERY FEW "Pros" in this metagame in oras because its so ***** easy a 5 year old could do it and get top 500 on the ladder... even the tour players rolf almost anyone could be a decent tour player in this metagame it takes little skill and everyone gets SO defensive that its cancerous...

Nigga people hate oras because they lose. I saw so many players still using teams that lose to classic HO and then cri when they lose to don or mence and say the meta is cancer.Just everybody learn to play and give us a break.

 

[teamsnickers]

Bullshit of the year award winner
Nigga people hate oras because they are retarded and lose. I saw so many players still using teams that lose to classic HO and then cri when they lose to don or mence and say the meta is cancer.Just everybody learn to fucking play and give us a break.

And instead of helping these players learn how to play we shittalk them and assert our authority because thats the way right...

A OLT for ubers would do wonders for the community imo bring the tour players and the ladder players into ONE tour and HOPEFULLY the ubers staff/other good players will encourage and help the community and then we can get a better understanding on what IF ANYTHING has to be changed about the current state of the metagame... we cant offer trophies so get a cash prize and it will be swamped

Alot more effective then defensive answers at least

 

[absdaddy]

i do support any idea that involves getting bigger players to play ladder if just to fix its name; i also support clearing 90% of the bloody auth, as a commoner who once quit because of idiots on positions they never should have been at, right now i actually feel it has gotten even worse. Quitting is out of question though, somebody has to fix the chat when authorities arent very eager to do so .. I'd also take a look at phases banned in the room unless somebody has taken care of that already

 

[Stratos]

why are people so mad itt? just play pokes and chill out. who cares if ppl think ur bad just outplace them in tournaments lol, say gg when u lose and say gg when u win and stop caring so much about whether or not u get "respect" for ur play. why is the ubers community so quick to rip into each others' play its pretty atrocious :\ i agree with the guy who said the ubers room is terrible though, they get a kick out of auth abuse and tho im a big fan of "chill out this is just pokemon" i think that joke mutes/bans/kicks on people who youre not long time friends with is really rude

as a side note this is why i think premier leagues are terrible for a community because they put so much worth on perceived skill and so little worth on actual skill, good old fashioned tournaments are the way to go

 

[8-BIT Luster]

I completely agree with Spydreigon's suggestion.
The underlying issue with the tier is not the (admittedly broken) current meta, but the users within it. There's a lot of shittalk and salt, and people can't seem to accept the fact that this is just a game. Hax is a built-in part of it, and if you don't like it, play chess. It is also impossible to create a tier that satisfies everyone's needs, but bitching and moaning about it changes literally nothing.

The reason I agree with Spy's suggestion is for multiple reasons.
-Even I, a die-hard PDon-lover, is getting sick and tired of it. That said, I don't think it should be banned to AG. The same goes for Mega Salamence. However, these two seem to be the most hotly contested Pokemon, and it would be interesting to see the tier without them. A separate tier allows players who don't care if PDon and Mence are in the tier can be played while at the same time the people who don't like the two Pokemon have something to play. OU (No Mega) is a pretty popular and interesting tier from what I've heard, and having something similar to this could be beneficial.
-It serves as a model for what the tier would be like with the two banned in a way that a suspect cannot. Suspecting two different Pokemon at once probably will not work out, and the separate tier gives us insight as to whether or not the tier would really be better with them gone. So many of us seem to assume "No PDon and no MMence fixes a lot of stuff" but outside of those who play PP ORAS Ubers (which is not much and the banlist on that extends to much more than those two,) most of it is just theorymonning.

However, sadly, this is not that simple and it doesn't remove the issue of the bad presence/negative attitude of many of the users, staff or not. However, that is something that will take a long while to change, but hopefully a separate ladder will stop some of the dumb arguments.

 

[Vileman]

Well as someone who plays ubers once in a while just to have some fun messing with mons i find fun to use, i just think there's a problem with users egos; if you differ from the usual building standards you will probably be called bad or shit (until i win with sd megazor, haha), its just mostly people trying to shit on others so they can think they are good, and theres also the problem that people inflate their ego even further by claiming to be the best and talkin shit about others while this is just a game
tl;dr lots of people instead of contributing to the ubers room/forums just shitalk others instead of helping them become better, and people have a rejection from non standard builds/sets that leads to even more unnecessary shittalk
(this is all from what ive just seen btw, i might be wrong i might not, who knows?)

 

[benbe]

did people forget this is the internet? its basically impossible for a large community of people in real life to get along for a long period of time let alone people on the internet. you can infract er ban whoever who want but people will always try to talk/start shit just to do. people dont get along with everyone they come across and since people will probably never meet who they dont like they can say whatever they want. i understand that the goal if this thread isnt to make the uber community a utopia but honestly i dont understand the purpose of this thread, every community on this site (ou,uu etc) has shitty users, thats just how it goes. this isnt an "ubers only" problem.

the whole stale meta thing is pretty bs as well, im not gonna say im in love with oras, but to say its already developed as much as it will be is a joke. i remember reading a post by hack a while ago that elaborated on the stale meta claims a lot more so read that if u want since i thought it was quite eyeopening. plus blaming the fact that a "stale" meta equates to a shitty community is lol.

also the banning pdon thing is clearly not a likely scenario at this point, fireburn has talked about it a handful of times so annoying him to ban/suspect it or whatever will probably just be a waste of time. i do know for a fact ou has a no mega ladder so why dont we just ask for a no primal ubers ladder? obviously isnt a fix for pdon haters but would be a good experiment to see oras with no pdon/orge

 

[Sweep]

I'll probably be accused of censorship because I've deleted many posts and heavily edited some others, but this thread has been painful to read recently. I don't have a problem with "bad language" in general, but this is supposed to be a thread for civil discussion and the way some of you used inappropriate language was completely unacceptable. There is way too much emotion in this thread; after all, this IS only a children's game (albeit one we all care about!) The tone of some of these posts is way over the top for a thread like this. From this point on, any uncivil, hostile posts are going to be infracted.

I'm confused and upset about the "favoritism" arguments. I can assure you that they are inaccurate. Within the past two weeks, Fireburn and I have infracted steeljackal, Melee Mewtwo, Problems, AND Hack for poor behavior. I respect all of these users as players and people but no one is immune to punishment for overtly terrible behavior. You have my word on that.

 

[Fireburn]

I am locking this thread for one week to give you people some time to simmer down. Any uncivil posts made after that period will be harshly infracted.

 

[Fireburn]

Sweep and I had a talk about this thread and we agreed that it has run its course, so we will not be reopening it.

We will consider those suggestions presented in a civil manner. Thank you for your input and we hope that we can continue to grow as a community peacefully.