Resource ORAS NU Viability Rankings

[Teddeh]

Right, so what you're advertising is an electric type that's fast, can setup rain and run life orb thunder?
As a rain setter; it's outclassed hugely as we've found out.
As an offensive electric type; it's more than outclassed.

As an offensive electric type in a tier where you have stunfisk, lanturn or magneton on every team, why in the world would this give you a nice over any other electric type that has ways of hitting these mons or on rain in general?

Rain is so effective because you have so many team archetypes that are hurt by high pressure, high power water types. Using electrode as your dedicated rain setter is simply daft, using it as a rain abuser is also simply daft since it's walled by a lot of pokemon and if you don't want to use electrode outside of rain, you're relying on a 70% accurate move as your STAB, for you to set up the rain, you need to force a switch or take a hit, which we can tell is not going to be easy for electrode.

All in all conclusively, every aspect of electrode is outclassed, especially in the metagame we play in right now where you claim it deserves a rank because of rain, where it can't abuse it very well due to team archetypes and it can't set it very well either.

tl;dr electrode is so meh in every aspect, this argument is stupid, leave it unranked

 

[Quite Quiet]

For a pokemon to get ranked by a "niche" the niche has to be at least worthy of consideration. Electrodes "Set-Rain-With-LO-Or-Hit-With-An-Inaccurate-Move" niche is nothing that anyone is ever going to use, as the niche is useless. There are numerous Pokemon that do everything Electrodes tries to do, but better.

 

[HJAD]

But Zebstrika is all the way in C+... Electrode is stronger and faster and has Taunt which stops stall mons with recovery. And Overheat just leaves you as setup fodder and doesn't go well with Rain. Nobody is going to use Lumineon over Prinplup but that's why it's in D rank while Prinplup is almost top tier. A niche is worth a rank however small.

Wait, I don't think you are getting what we are saying.

When you look for a rain lead, you want a few things:
-something that lasts
-something that sets up rain constantly
-something that prevents settup sweepers from coming in for free and setting up

what do Liepard and even Volbeat have over this? (I'm not even gonna try and argue Uxie)
A.) They last, so even at 0.1% HP can settup Rain in front a gurdurr etc thanks to prankster
B.)because of Prankster weather, they are consistent, you are guaranteed AT THE MINIMUM, 7 Turns of Rain, this can go eat up depending on how conservatively you play it, Electrode is lead and die.
C.) You're gonna say ahh Electrode has Taunt, its hardly even comparable to Liepard / Volbeats prankster encore, which stops anymon from setting up unless by miracle they can kill Liepard, and has enough Spe and a priority move to kill.
Overall, Electrodes Niche in Rain is so so so very small, (rain setter w/ thunder lol) it doesn't deserve a ranking based on it. I would hardly ever consider it over the afformentioned two.

Now as an attacker. I'm sorry to disappoint you, but in a meta stacked w/ rhydons, bulky special walls and loads of stunfisk / Lanturn for the superiorly powerful Magneton, against a competent player, Electrode will do jack shit. The meta right now is so adjust to Magneton ATM, so ranking electrode would not make sense since the most damage it could ever do to a Lanturn or Stunfisk is HP Grass (oooo scary) and Explosion (ha. You lost a Mon). We are talking about Zebstrika, which has coverage so that it can break some special walls, a defensive presence depending on what you are weak to(sap sipper or lightning rod) and the same relevant speed as electrode (yeah electrodes base is faster but common, how much extra is it out speeding.

I am completely against pushing this up into the "ranks"
And before you ask, yes, I have used electrode before, after 3 games of doing nothing but get countered by a Magneton meta, I took it off the team and replaced it w/ Magneton to much greater effect.

 

[Cherub Agent]

I don't think electrode is as awful as most of you are making it out to be. It's a good suicide setter for rain for following reasons:

- unlike volbeat, it can get up rain against the common fletchinder, and even ko it (fletch is a big theat to rain o.o)
- the fast taunt prevents shenanigans like toxic spikes from going up (another huge threat), or other setup in general
- you're not using explosion for damage output... you're using it to get a rain sweeper in safely to wreck havoc for seven turns (idk why you'd ever run life orb electrode though lol)

I'm not saying it's good, and i've also not used it. But it can aid a rain team against some common things that trouble the general archetype, and that would make me think it deserves D rank.

Literally the only moves you'd need are rain dance, taunt and explosion. This means that you can run jolly max attack to put a bit more of a dent in something for your rain sweeper to get an easier ko. Filler can be something like twave, wild charge, magic coat, foul play, idek. where did the idea of comparing it to zebstrika or magneton come from? it's not an offensive pokemon, its pure support. not going to fight for this though, just an opinion haha

 

[Deeerpz]

where did the idea of comparing it to zebstrika or magneton come from? it's not an offensive pokemon, its pure support

Prolly because the guy who proposed the change uses LO Thunder Electrode. I wouldn't know, tho.

 

[Teddeh]

Ya see this is an argument I can understand and I see more use for electrode now.

The original argument was extremely poor and the set used was even worse, which is why i disagreed with the set of choice however a suicide lead it would make a decent option, however still not that great as usually you want to setup rain multiple times during a game which is why you'd consider it a worse choice to volbeat. Even so~ I still think people need to try it out, as you are sacrificing using electrode over something like uxie, liepard or even a rain sweeper in order to function, which in theory isn't good at all. Volbeat in all honesty isn't even used that often, the main core of liepard + uxie is the most common, since uxie is usually the "suicide lead" you're comparing it to the likes of memento, slow u-turn and having stealth rocks to pack as well. The only thing seperating them is taunt; which again makes me question; is it worth a place in the rankings solely for taunt?

 

[Kiyo]

Agreeing that Electrode isn't that bad, Electric-type Pokemon have always been really good in NU imo, and having a strong fast Volt Switch is something thats really nice.

I don't think Electrode is as good as it was pre-Magneton, simply because more players are actually packing multiple solid answers to Electric-type attacks. I've tried Electrode on rain (simply because I think theres 1-2 slots that you can play around with cooler mons like Electrode and Beartic) and I can definitely say it was underwhelming as a rain setter, I think the niche it has is a strong Choice Specs Volt Switch with solid coverage options in Hidden Power and Signal Beam. I'd be ok with D rank, but I'm of the opinion that more shit rank mons is better than more unranked mons, so idk.

 

[freddymc]

I remember once I ran an electrode that used t-wave +electro ball
You know what the worst part was? It worked.... sort of

 

[Punchshroom]

- unlike volbeat, it can get up rain against the common fletchinder, and even ko it (fletch is a big theat to rain o.o)
- the fast taunt prevents shenanigans like toxic spikes from going up (another huge threat), or other setup in general
- you're not using explosion for damage output... you're using it to get a rain sweeper in safely to wreck havoc for seven turns (idk why you'd ever run life orb electrode though lol)

Liepard can do all of these (except I guess outright KOing Fletch but Kabutops is on Rain anyway), and while it doesn't have a suicide move, it either uses its sheer fraility to die quickly, or punishes the foe for not KOing it with Encore + U-turn.

Literally the only moves you'd need are rain dance, taunt and explosion. This means that you can run jolly max attack to put a bit more of a dent in something for your rain sweeper to get an easier ko. Filler can be something like twave, wild charge, magic coat, foul play, idek. where did the idea of comparing it to zebstrika or magneton come from? it's not an offensive pokemon, its pure support. not going to fight for this though, just an opinion haha

Wild Charge, really? Explosion is a better suicide move if that is what you're going for, because Wild Charge off 50 Base Atk is just not going to do jack shit to anything. As a Rain setter its (minimal) offensive presence is not worth the loss in the consistency of the Prankster setters, especially when the Rain sweepers pretty much have the whole 'offensive pressure' thing going down as it is.

Liarliarpantsonfire even argued something about Electrode revenging stuff, but fails to take into account two scenarios:
- If Rain is in play, just use the Swift Swimmer.
- If Rain is not in play, Electrode relying an a 70% accurate Thunder to take them down; far from an "effective revenge killer" if I do say so myself. At that point just setting up the Rain and letting the Swift Swimmer take over is a much more reliable strategy, in which case the Prankster setters do the job anyway, regardless of how fast the foe is (+1 Lilligant, for example).

Electrode's niches are too minutely small; it's on par with the likes of Maractus in that it looks like it can do some cool unique things but just isn't worth using over many current mons that can do the job(s) better or more consistently, and consistency is pretty much the name of the game when it comes to deciding niches.

 

[Kurona]

I remember once I ran an electrode that used t-wave +electro ball
You know what the worst part was? It worked.... sort of

Electro Ball doesn't do more damage based on if the opponent is paralyzed or not. It calculates with the pure speed stats, including natures, EVs and IVs. (not sure if it counts other modifiers like scarves or rock polishes or w/e tho)

 

[Cherub Agent]

Liepard can do all of these (except I guess outright KOing Fletch but Kabutops is on Rain anyway), and while it doesn't have a suicide move, it either uses its sheer fraility to die quickly, or punishes the foe for not KOing it with Encore + U-turn.

So "all of these" is 1/3? The liepard set you mentioned didn't run taunt either, but knock off, encore, and u-turn. Electrode has the luxury of running it because it can suicide itself. liepard can die quickly, yes, but that still wastes rain turns, which the opponent might well be trying to burn up

Wild Charge, really? Explosion is a better suicide move if that is what you're going for, because Wild Charge off 50 Base Atk is just not going to do jack shit to anything. As a Rain setter its (minimal) offensive presence is not worth the loss in the consistency of the Prankster setters, especially when the Rain sweepers pretty much have the whole 'offensive pressure' thing going down as it is.

Come on, don't nitpick the most minimal thing. Yes, min s.attack thunder is probably better than max attack wild charge, but i was tired and i did say that you're hardly ever going to use the move in that slot. Hell volt switch is probably fine there too.

From the way your post sounds it sounds like you think i think electrode is good; i don't. I think it's pretty bad but with a niche; ie D rank. If lumineon and ariados of all things are ranked i don't see why this can't be, but again, i really don't care either way

If d rank is to be "purged" i don't support electrode for it. The two mons i mentioned are absolutely, team-hinderingly dreadful. I'd rather they be unranked than electrode ranked

 

[freddymc]

Electro Ball doesn't do more damage based on if the opponent is paralyzed or not. It calculates with the pure speed stats, including natures, EVs and IVs. (not sure if it counts other modifiers like scarves or rock polishes or w/e tho)

no... paralysis reduces speed to 25%. Electro ball does in fact check those things when dealing damage, so scarf and speed modifiers do take effect. It checks it in a similar way to deciding who goes first in a turn.
So basically once you use t-wave on a foe not only have you crippled them but you also got access to a 150 bp electric type stab with no downsides.
Nice....

 

[Deej Dy]

no... paralysis reduces speed to 25%. Electro ball does in fact check those things when dealing damage, so scarf and speed modifiers do take effect. It checks it in a similar way to deciding who goes first in a turn.
So basically once you use t-wave on a foe not only have you crippled them but you also got access to a 150 bp electric type stab with no downsides.
Nice....

252 SpA Electrode Electro Ball (80 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Ekans: 154-183 (56.2 - 66.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 SpA Electrode Electro Ball (80 BP) vs. Paralyzed 252 HP / 0 SpD Ekans: 154-183 (56.2 - 66.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

You are, however, correct that Scarf Electrode does more damage

252 SpA (Scarf) Electrode Electro Ball (150 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Ekans: 289-342 (105.4 - 124.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO

 

[Liarliarpantsonfire]

Paralysis does increase the power of Electro Ball... Not that this is relevant in any way because Electro Ball is too unreliable.

 

[HJAD]

just gonna put this out there that twave + electroball Electrode is eye wateringly bad and should never be used ever.


As far as using Electrode as a rain lead to explode, I'm all for it being a simple rain lead. Problem is rain kinda has too many mons to cover in too little slots. At least with Liepard, you can make the last for longer than 3 turns and get more rain as a result. Uxie if we are gonna bring this up for discussion is also hella bulky, so naturally, of course its going to last longer.
Tbh, Electrodes niche in any other NU meta would be enough to warrant D rank, but right now, with Magneton so pivotal and everyone running a hard counter for it, Electrode, in reality, isn't going to be doing any major damage.

Also, can we please change topic from this piece of shit, something that should be recognised more often than it should. I never thought I would say this but Electivire's Mixed Set as actually hella threatening, I reckon it deserves a push up further and Torterra also deserves a push up to A-

Do you agree?

 

[Deeerpz]

Can't comment on Evire since I haven't used or encountered it enough to make a worthwhile statement, but I absolutely support the Torterra push. It's very akin to Carracosta: it can be used defensively or offensively, they have similar stats (although they are allocated differently), both have two very useful and strong STABs in this meta game, and very handy defensive typing too. It's a very versatile mon, it has reliable recovery, it can run a plethora of sets that can be adjusted accordingly to your team's need. I think it's a very good mon right now.

 

[xzern]

???????what??????

Unranked -> D
Behold. The man, the myth, the legend. The Diglett. The usage of Electric-types are on the rise and Magneton is a premier NU threat. That being said, Diglett has an easy job of revenge-killing Magneton and basically any other slower, lower-health enemies. Diglett is the only pokemon in NU with a trapping ability, except for Trapinch, which doesn't outspeed anything important. Furthermore, it also has a niche as a suicide lead, having access to both Stealth Rock, Memento, and a base 95 speed. It needn't be said that Diglett isn't that potent of a threat in the bigger scope of things, but that's what the D rank is for! Furthermore, it definitely has more of a niche than some of the random badmons that are already in the D rank (see: Frillish).

 

[Sweet Jesus]

Given the latest drops, I think mawile should drop to A or A-. Mawile does really bad against magneton (who can even trap it) and fletchinder and is usualy losing to pinsir and kabutops too. Apart from the fact mawile does big damage to mega-dino and walls sneasel near perfectly, it hasn't got that much going for it. Defensive wawile is always a little awkward when facing malamar and magnet pull magneton and offensive sheer force is just really slow and has very poor bulk despite it's amazing defensive typing.

 

[boltsandbombers]

Given the latest drops, I think mawile should drop to A or A-. Mawile does really bad against magneton (who can even trap it) and fletchinder and is usualy losing to pinsir and kabutops too. Apart from the fact mawile does big damage to mega-dino and walls sneasel near perfectly, it hasn't got that much going for it. Defensive wawile is always a little awkward when facing malamar and magnet pull magneton and offensive sheer force is just really slow and has very poor bulk despite it's amazing defensive typing.

Going to disagree with some of the points made.

Mawile doesn't really have as much trouble with Magneton as you would think. Firstly, defensive sets can easily run Baton Pass, which escapes from your opponent directly switching it in to trap you with a potential Magnet Pull set or just to fire off an attack, and is also helpful to keep up momentum and is not exclusively used to combat Magneton. Mawile can also tack on moves such as Knock Off or Super Fang which heavily cripple Magneton on the switch. On the other hand, if offensive Mawile gets up a Swords Dance it actually has a chance to OHKO 0/0 non-eviolite Magneton after rocks.

+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Mawile Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Magneton: 195-230 (80.9 - 95.4%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

And even without that, its not too difficult to shave off 15-20% of damage on it beforehand.
Yes, Mawile struggles versus Fletchinder, but you could feasibly run Toxic to cripple it. And no, I don't want to see the whole "mawile set of champions" argument because defensive mawile its really flexible in terms of its support options it can run depending on teammates, and while Magneton is super prominent and thus kinda forcing it to run Baton Pass, it still has a 4th moveslot for whatever. Pinsir's EQ stings a lot, but that requires some degree of prediction and Mawile can pivot into it just to get off an intimidate, but that point is valid. Kabutops is actually handled quite well by defensive mawile, not even coming close to 3HKOing it while Mawile can Baton Pass out or hit back with a STAB move for decent damage.

-1 252 Atk Life Orb Kabutops Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 188+ Def Mawile: 87-105 (28.6 - 34.5%) -- 99.4% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery

Sure, a boosted Waterfall or if its in the rain will hurt, but what doesnt enjoy taking hits from Rain boosted Kabutops?

I'm not totally opposed to it dropping, since the defensive set is somewhat easy to wear down if your opponent has a few pokemon that can overwhelm it, and the offensive sets have a lot of trouble getting switch in opportunities and are hard walled by quagsire (with the exception of grass knot). With faster teams being generally more common, Swords Dance sets also struggle a bit because Sucker Punch is its only way of alleviating its poor Speed. A drop to A sounds reasonable, but A- seems too low.

 

[Froggyboy]

down to A:
With the banning of Typhlosion, Camerupt, and Mega Steelix, I saw a lot of talk of Klinklang going on a frenzy, but now, with Magneton and Stunfisk everywhere, as well as Ground coverage a plenty for said Magnetons, it's hard to say it does its job as effectively as people had hoped before. With Magneton, you have no way of breaking through this, unless you have E-Belt Rock Smash(rofl), Stunfisk takes hits from this thing for days and can Pain Split make up, or hit it with E-Power. Sure it benefits from Fletchinder being here(although it doesnt like Will-O), but with how there is a Magneton and/or a Magneton counter on every team, I can't see Klinklang being A+.

down to B+:
Can't break through Fletch, is really reliant on Sucker Punch against faster mons, isn't a really good Suicide lead, has no sort of bulk, and the metagame trends aren't really beneficial to it. Not too adamant on this so I won't go into super detail.

Also could I get an explanation on why Kangaskhan is so high? It has solid stats and a good movepool, but is that really enough to keep it at A+?

 

[Liarliarpantsonfire]

0 SpA Life Orb Klinklang Hidden Power Ground vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Magneton: 229-270 (94.6 - 111.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

There's your Magneton lure. Of course this means you have to use Shift Gear + 3 attacks as opposed to Sub (and Naughty nature but that's trivial), but still worth the trade off imo.

As for Kangaskhan, it has great priority and hits really hard with Silk Scarf Double-Edge. But it also faces competition from the faster and stronger Tauros, and Scrappy is not that relevant now that people are using Magneton over Rotom. Kabutops and Gurdurr are also common and give it a hard time. I could see it dropping to A because it's definitely not as strong as it used to be.

 

[HJAD]

I definitely feel like the Klinklang hype train has crashed. Turns out that the drops really weren't that kinds to it at all and when we thought it was going to savage the tier, it isn't, and has to be content with trying to break through checks and counters for magneton as well as more natural checks like bulky-ish waters and bulky-ish fires. Quagsire staying here was massive also. Its probably THE klinklang counter if you could think of one and great for keeping klink in check. Although I feel klinklang lost slightly more than it gained in shifts, its still a massive huge metagame threat. It will sweep your offense team if you don't have a resist for gear grind. So for that fact, and the it has great bulk, typing and has loads of setup oppurtuinities. It should remain A+ imo.

For Cacturne, I think you are devalueing it way way more than you should be.
252+ SpA Life Orb Cacturne Dark Pulse vs. 112 HP / 0 SpD Fletchinder: 289-341 (98.6 - 116.3%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO
As far as I'm concerned, Fletch isn't a cacturne switch in. Check, yes. Switch in, no.
The reason why Cacturne is so high, in A- is its ability to go mixed and forego its counters, have a really powerful SD varient with a massive sucker punch which can dent teams. I think you kinda undervalue sucker punch. Its an extremely useful move that kinda pressures your opponent into 50/50 situations. You can dictate what he has to do because if you win that 50/50, Cacturne gets a kill. Also, the tier is kinda short on full on Cacturne counters. Its really difficult to account for all the sets in one mon, should also stay A- imo.

 

[Teddeh]

In a really offensive meta, i'm not sure if cacturne really is all that great. I think it lacks switch ins to an extent, however I feel that it's too slow and that it's hindered by its typing so much so that things like xatu can live a sucker with colbur and ko with u-turn. In general it carries a lot of weaknesses and it brings a lot of unnecessary pressure to your team by using it since it's easily outsped.
However, it's in "nuke-status" with its attack and special attack that make it such a hard hitter, with the ability to go mixed or sd it makes it a threat to be messed with. Revenge killing it is hard due to sucker, however i feel that it really relies heavily on sucker punch to be effective since its typing and bulk is so poor that it is rather ineffective at everything else, especially in a meta where sneasel, gurdurr, fletch are so common.
And on one final look at it, you could say it's improved since the rise of stunfisk, lanturn and torterra make cacturne have a lot more free switches to fire off these nukes.
I'd say that pre-drops, cacturne was a B+ pokemon, I'd probably also sway for it to be B+ again, however I'm not too fussed on whether it is A- either since it has a lot of promising qualities.

 

[Deej Dy]

down to A:
With the banning of Typhlosion, Camerupt, and Mega Steelix, I saw a lot of talk of Klinklang going on a frenzy, but now, with Magneton and Stunfisk everywhere, as well as Ground coverage a plenty for said Magnetons, it's hard to say it does its job as effectively as people had hoped before. With Magneton, you have no way of breaking through this, unless you have E-Belt Rock Smash(rofl), Stunfisk takes hits from this thing for days and can Pain Split make up, or hit it with E-Power. Sure it benefits from Fletchinder being here(although it doesnt like Will-O), but with how there is a Magneton and/or a Magneton counter on every team, I can't see Klinklang being A+.

down to B+:
Can't break through Fletch, is really reliant on Sucker Punch against faster mons, isn't a really good Suicide lead, has no sort of bulk, and the metagame trends aren't really beneficial to it. Not too adamant on this so I won't go into super detail.

Also could I get an explanation on why Kangaskhan is so high? It has solid stats and a good movepool, but is that really enough to keep it at A+?

I, like you, used to be not so keen on CacTURNT. Throughout all of XY and early ORAS I never even touched the guy except for gimmick Sash+Counter sets. However, I tried out a competitive set for the first time two days ago and I was not disappointed. Sure, it has frail defenses, but not much can switch into a mixed attacker with Dark and Grass coverage. I agree with Teddeh in that I viewed it as a B+ mon before the recent drops.

With the huge surge of Lanturn usage,( I swear usage is ~50%) Cacturne has become even more viable, soaking up scalds and taking resisted electric hits (or simply teaming a ground type/Volt absorber with Cacturne and ruining Lanturn).

I personally pair my Cacti pal with my own Lanturn and have had great success thus far experimenting with the core of Water+Volt Absorb. I think another reason it is A- is because of its access to a rarity in NU, Spikes. D bond is also a nice way to sack it as an emergency for slower threats, Hell I've d-bonded and saved myself vs Malamars or something hugely threatening that it outspeeds (+2 Mawile, Malamar, etc).

Overall, I think it has increased in viability recently due to the surge in Lanturn usage, and if you pair it with something that can take a Fletchinder hit, it is quite useful with access to the rare combination of Destiny bond, Swords Dance, and Spikes.
I'm not Adamant (Hyuck) on keeping it A- rank, as I can see reason for its lowering, but I think it is worth the A- from my experience the past few days.

 

[Garnet til Alexandros]

I'm kind of on the fence about Cacturne. I thought it was a kind of 'meh' A- before, but with Fletch in the tier I'm kind of thinking B+. Of course, it still has a solid offensive presence, as well as multiple sets, adding to its unpredictability. So I can see why you can make the argument for A-, but I'm not too sure... Going to have to test kekturne a little more in the new meta.