Okay I already did but here we go again:
Chansey, Latios, Latias, Cressilia, Gengar, Av Torn-T, Skarmory, and Sp Def Zapdos. Along with the numerous checks it has that I haven't listed. It can easily be working around and beaten.
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np: ORAS OU Suspect Process, Round 4 - Genie in a bottle
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Chansey, Latios, Latias, Cressilia, Gengar, Av Torn-T, Skarmory, and Sp Def Zapdos. Along with the numerous checks it has that I haven't listed. It can easily be working around and beaten.
Out of all the things in OU, I've thought Landorus was the worst to deal with for quite a while now, to be honest. It has all of the things an offensive threat needs to posses: strength, movepool, and solid speed.
The former-most of the four, strength, is unquestionably present with Landorus. With Sheer Force + LO being on pretty much every variant, STAB Earth Power off of base 115 SAtk is hard to tank, not to mention that it has coverage of some sort to hit pretty much everything else that EPower doesn't hit, but I'll get more into that when I discuss movepool. Anyway, it's able to 2hko common walls like Hippo (+SAtk always 2hkos max/max SDef Hippo while +Spd has a solid chance after SR), Clefable, and Mew (almost guaranteed after SR) without much of an issue.
Even with strength, many powerful mons are not broken (I'm looking at you Tyrantrum) as they are lackluster in other aspects, but one of the things that really puts Lando over the top in OU has to be its movepool. Just off the top of my head, there are a good half-dozen viable and somewhat common variants of it and while anti-ban posters may say "oh, it has 4mss," they also must keep in mind that while attempting to counter-play vs Landorus, the opponent has no clue what Landorus' moves are, so it's really guesswork at best, which isn't healthy considering so few things counter every variant of Landorus (oddballs like Cresselia) and there are so many common moves that it can have on a given set. I don't feel like listing a million moves in a row that it can run, so I'm just going to c/p a list of variants that I made in the past and put them in the HIDE tag right below this paragraph to hopefully prove the point of its movepool and unpredictability.
To add onto all of this, Landorus has 101 base speed, which may seem to not be as great as it was in the past due to the introduction of base 110 speed (+) megas like Metagross, Diancie, and Lop, but in reality is still solid given that Lando isn't a glass cannon (it doesn't sponge too many hits, but it can take one on occasion) and can outpace most pokemon on balanced teams and bulkier teams still. Hell, it can even run a modest nature to net more damage without sacrificing much.
Overall, Landorus has the power and movepool to threaten practically the entire metagame and there are so few counters to it because of this and in conjunction with fairly good speed, I think that Landorus is too much for OU and should be banned from ORAS OU!
The former-most of the four, strength, is unquestionably present with Landorus. With Sheer Force + LO being on pretty much every variant, STAB Earth Power off of base 115 SAtk is hard to tank, not to mention that it has coverage of some sort to hit pretty much everything else that EPower doesn't hit, but I'll get more into that when I discuss movepool. Anyway, it's able to 2hko common walls like Hippo (+SAtk always 2hkos max/max SDef Hippo while +Spd has a solid chance after SR), Clefable, and Mew (almost guaranteed after SR) without much of an issue.
Even with strength, many powerful mons are not broken (I'm looking at you Tyrantrum) as they are lackluster in other aspects, but one of the things that really puts Lando over the top in OU has to be its movepool. Just off the top of my head, there are a good half-dozen viable and somewhat common variants of it and while anti-ban posters may say "oh, it has 4mss," they also must keep in mind that while attempting to counter-play vs Landorus, the opponent has no clue what Landorus' moves are, so it's really guesswork at best, which isn't healthy considering so few things counter every variant of Landorus (oddballs like Cresselia) and there are so many common moves that it can have on a given set. I don't feel like listing a million moves in a row that it can run, so I'm just going to c/p a list of variants that I made in the past and put them in the HIDE tag right below this paragraph to hopefully prove the point of its movepool and unpredictability.
Earth Power / Sludge Wave / Hidden Power Ice / RP or CM or SR or U-turn
Earth Power / Focus Blast / Psychic / RP or CM or SR or U-turn
Earth Power / Sludge Wave / Psychic / RP or CM or SR or U-turn
Earth Power / Sludge Wave / Focus Blast / RP or CM or SR or U-turn
Earth Power / Focus Blast / Hidden Power Ice / RP or CM or SR or U-turn
Earth Power / Rock Slide / Hidden Power Ice or Focus Blast or Psychic or Sludge Wave / Hidden Power Ice or Focus Blast or Psychic or Sludge Wave
Earth Power / Knock Off / Psychic or Focus Blast or Sludge Wave or RP / Psychic or Focus Blast or Sludge Wave or RP
Get the point? I hope so.
Earth Power / Focus Blast / Psychic / RP or CM or SR or U-turn
Earth Power / Sludge Wave / Psychic / RP or CM or SR or U-turn
Earth Power / Sludge Wave / Focus Blast / RP or CM or SR or U-turn
Earth Power / Focus Blast / Hidden Power Ice / RP or CM or SR or U-turn
Earth Power / Rock Slide / Hidden Power Ice or Focus Blast or Psychic or Sludge Wave / Hidden Power Ice or Focus Blast or Psychic or Sludge Wave
Earth Power / Knock Off / Psychic or Focus Blast or Sludge Wave or RP / Psychic or Focus Blast or Sludge Wave or RP
Get the point? I hope so.
To add onto all of this, Landorus has 101 base speed, which may seem to not be as great as it was in the past due to the introduction of base 110 speed (+) megas like Metagross, Diancie, and Lop, but in reality is still solid given that Lando isn't a glass cannon (it doesn't sponge too many hits, but it can take one on occasion) and can outpace most pokemon on balanced teams and bulkier teams still. Hell, it can even run a modest nature to net more damage without sacrificing much.
Overall, Landorus has the power and movepool to threaten practically the entire metagame and there are so few counters to it because of this and in conjunction with fairly good speed, I think that Landorus is too much for OU and should be banned from ORAS OU!
About time the Lando-I suspect test came into fruition as i've always felt it was completely broken even from early XY. The thing is a complete nightmare to any archetype depending on the set and has unparalleled wallbreaking capabilities of any other mon in the tier. RP sets fuck up HO in the late game and All Out Attacking sets with Knock Off give major problems to balance teams that typically only carry a Lati twin as a means in dealing with it.
Some of its best answers either have huge opportunity costs or have no place in the current ORAS meta (i,e Mega LAti, Cress) which obviously only help this asshole break through huge portions of a team. It puts too much restrain on teambuilding in ORAS and is a big part of the matchup-dependent problem that is prevalent in the current meta.
Ban
Some of its best answers either have huge opportunity costs or have no place in the current ORAS meta (i,e Mega LAti, Cress) which obviously only help this asshole break through huge portions of a team. It puts too much restrain on teambuilding in ORAS and is a big part of the matchup-dependent problem that is prevalent in the current meta.
Ban
Shaka Brah
Banned deucer.
That is, again, paper Pokemon. Because you're assuming two things: A, that a player who has no options but to sack mons once Lando gets an RP off is going to let it get off an RP on the switch (which is probably Lando's riskiest play), and B, that Lando is running RP Knock which it usually doesn't because he'd rather have optimal lategame sweeping coverage if he's going to run Rock Polish, not Knock Off to deal with the lati twins that are better left to be dealt with by a trapper like Ttar.
Saying that Landorus kills everything given the optimal situations doesn't mean it's broken in actual play.
Lol only knock off and rock slide destroys like all of them
Chansey is absolutely NOT something you want to switch into Landorus. The only Lando that Chansey can risk switching into is RP Lando. Lando smacks Latios, Latias, Chansey, Gengar each with Knock Off. Lol. "Counters."
AV Torn and Zapdos get bopped by Rock Slide, Skarm by Focus Blast.
So we have Cresselia and Mega Latias for reliable answers. Not exactly the most splashable things to have…
Honestly, it sounds like you're advocating keeping a Pokemon unbanned despite it requiring ~2 things to completely counter. If that's not unhealthy, then wtf is?
Look--the OU Council would not have said in the OP, "Landorus is being suspected in part due to the difficulty in countering him," if it wasn't true. These are some of the most respected members in the OU community, and you're telling them that they're flat out wrong? Just accept the fact that Lando is absurdly hard to counter and intensely threatening to a shit ton of teams.
Ok i just changed my mind
With the previous mons that have been banned
Mega mence, greninja, aegi, you could all place them on any team and make that team better deeming them broken
Lando can provide a variety of different rolls on a team just blindly put it on a team and have your team improve from it
These are the things that makes lando i a EXTREMELY good mon in this metagame its movepool is just INSANE (can run anything based on what team u have) but its just not as splash-able compared to the other mons that were banned. Overall Im voting to ban Lando it reminds me alot of the greninja ban just a slower mon. Lando can provide whatever roll you want , its rp set is lethal to ho teams, its 4 attack set has amazing coverage and breaks stall/balanced.
Something vastly overrated is landours ability to be revenged.... this is not a easy mon to revenge at all and in most cases takes multiple "sacks" to kill and with its flying type does not take spike damage from switching in and out
BAN LANDO!
With the previous mons that have been banned
Mega mence, greninja, aegi, you could all place them on any team and make that team better deeming them broken
Lando can provide a variety of different rolls on a team just blindly put it on a team and have your team improve from it
These are the things that makes lando i a EXTREMELY good mon in this metagame its movepool is just INSANE (can run anything based on what team u have) but its just not as splash-able compared to the other mons that were banned. Overall Im voting to ban Lando it reminds me alot of the greninja ban just a slower mon. Lando can provide whatever roll you want , its rp set is lethal to ho teams, its 4 attack set has amazing coverage and breaks stall/balanced.
Something vastly overrated is landours ability to be revenged.... this is not a easy mon to revenge at all and in most cases takes multiple "sacks" to kill and with its flying type does not take spike damage from switching in and out
BAN LANDO!
Gengar isn't a counter, because of Psychic and Gengar doesn't OHKO Landorus-I anyway. Lati@s again, they die to Knock Off so they aren't counters by no means. Skarmory is 2HKOed by Focus Blast and is a check at best. Chansey can't switch into Knock Off so it's a check. The only "counters" are AV Tornadus-T, Cresselia and SpDef Zapdos, two of which are bopped by Rock Slide so they are pretty shaky when it comes to countering it
This thing really needs to go . it can get around its checks very easly . needs very little team support aswell in order to sweep or break holes that turn the tide of battle
A pokemon that everyone is forgetting that counters this thing is Goodra still having only 3 counters that can be played around with is a problem and puts limitations on team building and a problem for stall
A pokemon that everyone is forgetting that counters this thing is Goodra still having only 3 counters that can be played around with is a problem and puts limitations on team building and a problem for stall
Chansey fears Knock Off + Focus Blast, also a rare CMind version is scary too; Latwins suffer Knock Off (Latios is 2hkoed by SludgeWave and HP Ice anyway); Cresselia ok but its a sitting duck basically; Gengar suffers Knock Off and Psychic, also it doesnt beat lando 1v1 unless lolIcyWind, and it still loses vs a RP version; AV-Torn-T takes OHKO after SR w/RSlide and can't ohko back unless IcyWind/HP Ice, and it still loses to RP version; Skarmory suffers FocusBlast and can't touch Lando; SpDef Zap is 2hkoed by Rock Slide.
Note that: Cresselia, Latwins, Chansey, Gengar can be trapped by ScarfTar/Bisharp; Tornadus-T and Zapdos suffer SR; Skarmory cant touch Lando.
All mons you listed are SHAKY checks besides Cresselia.
"If it runs Focus Blast + Rock Slide it should not run Sludge Wave, Knock Off and/or HP Ice!" well you NEVER know what Lando could run, that's the same problem several other mons (BANNED) got.
Chansey:252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Focus Blast vs. 4 HP / 252 SpD Chansey: 309-367 (48.1 - 57.1%) -- 91.8% chance to 2HKO
Lati@s:0 Atk Life Orb Landorus Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 72 HP / 0 Def Latias: 239-283 (74.9 - 88.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Gengar (lol):0 Atk Life Orb Landorus Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Gengar: 333-393 (128.5 - 151.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Torn-t:0 Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Rock Slide vs. 132 HP / 0 Def Tornadus-T: 268-317 (80.7 - 95.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Skar:252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Skarmory: 270-318 (80.8 - 95.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery (Sp def kind of counters it,but it's a rare set)
Sp def Zapdos:0 Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Rock Slide vs. 248 HP / 64 Def Zapdos: 237-281 (61.8 - 73.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery (regular Phys def is 2HKOed by HP ice)
Cress and M-Lati are the only real counters imo
Landorus @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest / Rash Nature
- Rock Polish
- Earth Power
- Hidden Power Ice
- Sludge Wave / Knock Off
I don't know about you, but considering that this set was taken straight from the landorus analysis you can kinda consider Knock Off to be a pretty good move on it, and Knock Off deals with a lot more pokemon then you just mentioned. Also I was not at all assuming that the player was going to sack any mons, this is essentially a free RP if your opponent doesn't predict the lando switch in
Wow, I don't know how many times I need to repeat myself. Lando-I using Knock Off has 12.4% usage. Lando-I's using Rock Slide and Focus Blast have even less % usage. These ARE NOT valid arguments. You are cherry picking moves that are NOT valid in the current meta. Lando-I using these moves MEANS he gets countered by other pokes that he usually beats. The RP set is the MOST USED and MOST VALID. It means team building for him is team building for that set.
This thing is ridiculous. Most people have pretty much covered what I wanted to say, life orb + sheer force + movepool is pretty much given something is going to faint. OP mentions Mega Lati is a counter but tbh the counter wastes a mega slot when there are better megas in OU to use over Mega Lati: MGross and MAlt. Also having to use a mega to counter this thing is pretty much favoring me to vote ban. People mention Cresselia but lol isnt this thing like RU, what other purposes does it serve than a Lando I check? To me, Cresselia just feels like the Porygon-2 to check Greninja scenario, if anything.
Anyway I am open minded to any of the anti-ban arguments, but for now I say ban Lando.
Anyway I am open minded to any of the anti-ban arguments, but for now I say ban Lando.
This argument is flawed. Just because a move has a lower usage on Lando-I doesn't mean it should be ignored. The fact that almost every "counter" you listed is beaten with the appropriate coverage move (Lati@s and Chansey with Knock Off, Tornadus-T and Zapdos with Rock Slide, and Skarmory with Focus Blast or a CM set) means that even if said coverage move is low in usage, there is always going to be a Lando-I that simply beats you, unless you run multiple Pokemon on that list, which is called overcentralization. If you run Tornadus-T as your Lando "counter", then what happens if it hits you with a Rock Slide on the switch (or you simply don't have Icy Wind / Knock Off)? Then that means there is always a Lando set you will lose to. What Pokemon will beat it now that it has Rock Slide instead of another coverage move, unless if you run multiple counters? Which again, is overcentralization. The fact that Lando-I has the ability to beat its counters makes it too powerful of a force for the metagame to handle, let alone the amazing match ups it has against a lot of builds and its great versatility.
anyway, food for thought, but I'm on the ban side
e: dang, people are replying to this p. quickly, haha. I just wanted to add on one more point that the only two "real" Landorus-I counters, Cresselia and Mega Latias, both carry big opportunity costs when using them and can only be used on specific team builds (their niches aren't big enough to allow people to just slap them on any team), which again, strains the team building process.
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Have you not seen past suspect tests?
Okay, I'll post this for the umpteenth time…
Usage does NOT equal viability.
Just because only 12% of people are using something doesn't mean that it's a shit set. You've proved absolutely nothing throwing statistics at me.
Once again, usage DOES NOT EQUAL viability
Those options are perfectly viable and allow Landorus to get around most of its checks, unless there are other ways it gets rid of Lati@s or Tornauds, Knock Off and Rock Slide are perfectly viable options on Landorus.
lol I got ninja'd hard
I created a list of what Landorus checks, counters and revenge killers has, and what Landorus checks itself (it's not much, mainly because it's an offensive Pokemon).
Match-up against Landorus
Hard Check /Counters: Only Gyarados, M Latias and Cresselia.
Soft Checks:
Fear Psychic: Gengar , Talonflame, Rotom-W, Tornadus-T
Fear HP Ice: Gliscor, Tornadus-T, dragonite
Fear Knock Off: Latios, Celebi, Latias, Tornadus-T (Crippled), bronzing, Slowking, Goodra (Crippled). Chansey (crippled)
Fear Sludge Wave: Celebi, Rotom-W, Tornadus-T, Togekiss,
Fear Focus Blast: Chansey, mandibuzz,
Fear Rock Slide: M Charizard Y
Doesn’t usually run coverage to defeat it: Chansey, mandibuzz, Zapdos,
Revnege Killers:
Keldeo (Hydro Pump), Azumarill (Aqua Jet, surprising 1 Earth Power + Waterfall), M LOpunny (Return), Thundurus-I (Hp Ice), M gardevoir (take non-Poison coverage + Hyper Voice), Mamoswine (Ice Shard), Starmie (Hydro Pump, Ice Beam), Klefki (??), Kabutops (Waterfall in Rain), Kingdra (water STAB in Rain), Kyurem-B (take anything bar Focus Balst plus Ice Beam), M Sceptile (Leaf Sotmr), M Swampert (Waterfall in Rain), Sharpedo (Protect + Warerfall/Ice Fang), Weavile (Ice Shard/Icicle Crash), M Pidgeot (Hurricane while taking 1 of common coverage), Thundurus-T (HP Ice, Speed tie), Froslass (Ice Beam).
What Landorus
Counter/Hard Checks: Gliscor, Tyranitar, M Beedrill, Scolipede,
Soft Checks: Heatran, Landorus-T, Mega venusaur, Mega Heracross, Gothitelle, Toxicroak,
Revenge Kills/Very Soft Checks: Bisharp, Excadrill, Brellom, Dragalge, Magnezone, Victini, Lucario,
Edition: Added to Knock Off to Chansey
Match-up against Landorus
Hard Check /Counters: Only Gyarados, M Latias and Cresselia.
Soft Checks:
Fear Psychic: Gengar , Talonflame, Rotom-W, Tornadus-T
Fear HP Ice: Gliscor, Tornadus-T, dragonite
Fear Knock Off: Latios, Celebi, Latias, Tornadus-T (Crippled), bronzing, Slowking, Goodra (Crippled). Chansey (crippled)
Fear Sludge Wave: Celebi, Rotom-W, Tornadus-T, Togekiss,
Fear Focus Blast: Chansey, mandibuzz,
Fear Rock Slide: M Charizard Y
Doesn’t usually run coverage to defeat it: Chansey, mandibuzz, Zapdos,
Revnege Killers:
Keldeo (Hydro Pump), Azumarill (Aqua Jet, surprising 1 Earth Power + Waterfall), M LOpunny (Return), Thundurus-I (Hp Ice), M gardevoir (take non-Poison coverage + Hyper Voice), Mamoswine (Ice Shard), Starmie (Hydro Pump, Ice Beam), Klefki (??), Kabutops (Waterfall in Rain), Kingdra (water STAB in Rain), Kyurem-B (take anything bar Focus Balst plus Ice Beam), M Sceptile (Leaf Sotmr), M Swampert (Waterfall in Rain), Sharpedo (Protect + Warerfall/Ice Fang), Weavile (Ice Shard/Icicle Crash), M Pidgeot (Hurricane while taking 1 of common coverage), Thundurus-T (HP Ice, Speed tie), Froslass (Ice Beam).
What Landorus
Counter/Hard Checks: Gliscor, Tyranitar, M Beedrill, Scolipede,
Soft Checks: Heatran, Landorus-T, Mega venusaur, Mega Heracross, Gothitelle, Toxicroak,
Revenge Kills/Very Soft Checks: Bisharp, Excadrill, Brellom, Dragalge, Magnezone, Victini, Lucario,
Edition: Added to Knock Off to Chansey
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First I really don't think this has anything with me or anyone who has been playing against Landorus being bad players. I've managed to peak #1 on the ladder before (which requires winning consistently) and numerous other players who primarily play (and win) in tournaments have been saying similar things to what I have been saying.
Second, you say that "you can work around getting your Chansey knocked off", but please do tell us all how you are this consistently without having to risk losing another pokemon and making the Landorus-I user more pressured than he was pressuring you originally. All you have said is that people are bad players / bad teambuilders without specifically what they need to do to win againt Landorus and be good. You didn't even address the other two important points of my arguments:
A. Chansey has no passive recovery to stave off residual damage from SR+the accompanying TTar's sand damage (Tornadus-T has similar issues because SR (25%) + sand (6%) means you only net 2% health every time you switch in and directly back out)
B. You also have to deal with Pursuit with many of your counters (Psychics + Chansey). Double switching will prevent the loss of your pokemon, but that means you never have a turn to use a recovery move
With these three things in mind, specifically how are consistently playing (like >10 matches) and what pokemon are you using in game scenarios to prevent your checks and counters from getting lured / trapped / worn down from residual damage. There are a lot of people here who have been looking for that answer. I am 100% sure there is not a way to do this consistently because Landorus-I is able to 2HKO the majority of the metagame (high risk scouting), its checks counters are very passive except Tornadus-T (meaning that can't apply any offensive pressure, Landorus-I is resilient to chip damage (stalling turns won't leave it weaker), and its coverage is so wide that it can hit its counters anyway regardless of team support.
edit: also knock off does affect tornadus-t because it is reliant on assault vest for extra special defense
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thesecondbest
Just Kidding I'm First
Yes it has few counters but that's isn't the reason it will get banned if it does. Kyu-b has no counters besides mega meta, but isn't broken. Mega meta itself had few counters but wasnt banned. If it gets banned it will be because it ohkos stuff, not because it 2hkos stuff. It was different for aegi/ because aegi/ was way bulkier (but i didnt even think that should have been banned so I digress.)
I haven't decided yet, but leaning no ban because I think that the meta has successfully adapted to it. It isn't overcentralizing as most megas beat it (the 110s outspeed and usually kill it, latis beat it, swampert beats it, etc.) But if the non lando ladder is that much better then i would think it's banworthy. And it stops you from running lando-t which is a fantastic mon, especially has a rocker or scarfer.
This'll be interesting for sure.
I haven't decided yet, but leaning no ban because I think that the meta has successfully adapted to it. It isn't overcentralizing as most megas beat it (the 110s outspeed and usually kill it, latis beat it, swampert beats it, etc.) But if the non lando ladder is that much better then i would think it's banworthy. And it stops you from running lando-t which is a fantastic mon, especially has a rocker or scarfer.
This'll be interesting for sure.
Shaka Brah
Banned deucer.
Well, firstly, knock being slashed on the Lando analysis doesn't really disprove anything in the post. Secondly, I never said you assumed that the player was going to sack any mons, I said that a player who has no choice but to sack mons once lando gets an RP off isn't going to let it RP easily, which is an assumption that's as fair as you saying that Lando's going to RP and follow it up with a knock. The fact that I had to type out that sentence means that the argument is entering incredibly circlejerky/hypothetical territory.
It's pointless to argue with people who think that it's both impossible to figure out what Lando's set is without sacking mons and that its fantastic movepool means that it's going to mow through every team (likening it to gren, I guess, except for the fact that Lando has a really lackluster speed stat and can't run four moves in addition to needing a free turn to set up with RP if it wants to outspeed everything. The two aren't comparable) so this is the last reply I'm going to be giving on the subject. Everything that's needed to have been said is said.
Viability rankings weren't kidding weren't they?
No-mega viability: http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/ou-no-mega-viability-ranking-thread-check-post-63.3536150/
Go to page one for this latest vr: http://www.smogon.com/forums/thread...king-thread-v3-read-post-492-page-20.3536420/
ALL FREAKING SETS ARE S-RANK: http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/oras-ou-sets-viability-rankings-v3.3537590/
This one from January 2015: http://www.smogon.com/forums/thread...ing-thread-v2-check-post-2500-pg-100.3526596/
You see where I'm getting at. Landorus-T is more useful as far as stalling and rock setting purposes but he's healthy for the OU metagame. Whenever you see someone with a Landorus-Incarnate on the other hand, when a sweeper set comes along, it's always effective and unpredictable. I have a Landorus-I sets on one of my teams with sludge wave, focus blast, and knock off, in which my enemies never see coming. Sheer Force-Life Orb is x6 power with no recoil, better than band or specs without having to sacrifice anything. It even has grass knot if you want to go that route. Also you can build it specially, physically, mixed and do well either way, and does all extremely fast. I'm in favor of most bans because I like changes (Mega-Metagross was gross for the OU meta, it needed to be banned e.g.) But I say BAN.
No-mega viability: http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/ou-no-mega-viability-ranking-thread-check-post-63.3536150/
Go to page one for this latest vr: http://www.smogon.com/forums/thread...king-thread-v3-read-post-492-page-20.3536420/
ALL FREAKING SETS ARE S-RANK: http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/oras-ou-sets-viability-rankings-v3.3537590/
This one from January 2015: http://www.smogon.com/forums/thread...ing-thread-v2-check-post-2500-pg-100.3526596/
You see where I'm getting at. Landorus-T is more useful as far as stalling and rock setting purposes but he's healthy for the OU metagame. Whenever you see someone with a Landorus-Incarnate on the other hand, when a sweeper set comes along, it's always effective and unpredictable. I have a Landorus-I sets on one of my teams with sludge wave, focus blast, and knock off, in which my enemies never see coming. Sheer Force-Life Orb is x6 power with no recoil, better than band or specs without having to sacrifice anything. It even has grass knot if you want to go that route. Also you can build it specially, physically, mixed and do well either way, and does all extremely fast. I'm in favor of most bans because I like changes (Mega-Metagross was gross for the OU meta, it needed to be banned e.g.) But I say BAN.
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Chansey: extremely passive, Focus Blast (specially if boosted by CM),
Latios: Knock Off, something Sludge Wave.
Latias: Read Latios but taking better Slidge Waves.
Cresselia: Yes,a full counter. But its only C+ and is only viable on stall/semi stall and Trick Room.
AV tornadus-T: Knock Off could quit its AV.
Skarmory: Focus Blast, (and the rare Gravity Landorus). Also, it's weak offensively.
Sp. Def Zapdos. Requires HP ice, which Zapdos doesn't usually have. If zapdos uses HP Ice, it could give more reasons to ban it.
The list of sgreat counters are:
Defensive sets of Gyarados (not its Mega), M Latias (high opportunity cost) and Cresselia (only viable on stall and Trick Room, as said earlier).
Everything else fears a coverage move or has something else that make them not great switch-in (zapdos not havign ways to damamge it, Chansey being too apssive (and limtied to stall), Mandibuzz being relatively passive.
Goodra and Tornadus-T fear that its AV gets knocked off by "Knock Off".
Edit: Sorry, I forgot Knock Off to Chansey. It's unforgivable!!!
Ok my first thoughs of this Suspect about landorus is BAN let me explain why i think is too much for the OU tier there is a few switch ins to this monster some of them are Torn-T, Bronzong, Cress, Lati Twins/Megas and Spdef Skarmory, they are switch ins but them are not safe just because Landorus has an incredible movepool that provide the coverage u need to murder this switch ins rock slide, focus blast and knock off, if that wasn't enough the only partner u need for landorus is a pursuit trapper user name as ScarfTar, Bisharp LO/AV, Scizor/Mega ... this 2 mons can destroy every single playstyle with the coverage landorus can have. Nobody is safe of this monster and centralizing so much the teambuilding, u may build a great team but when u look at it the qestions we all have is ''Where is my Lando Switch in?'' and yeah thats true.
Everybody thinks that if we remove a wallbreaker like this of the meta we don't have anymore to break those balance team/stalls, like Manaphy/Gardevooir wasn't enough to that. Even tho is gonna be more harder to breaks it is gonna make the battles more fun/interesting to play around those balance cores and not only think ''if a switch my landorus safelly i just win''. The Ban isn't gonna do the meta the best in ORAS, but is gonna help a lot and make it more healthier
Everybody thinks that if we remove a wallbreaker like this of the meta we don't have anymore to break those balance team/stalls, like Manaphy/Gardevooir wasn't enough to that. Even tho is gonna be more harder to breaks it is gonna make the battles more fun/interesting to play around those balance cores and not only think ''if a switch my landorus safelly i just win''. The Ban isn't gonna do the meta the best in ORAS, but is gonna help a lot and make it more healthier
I've been part of many suspects. And while Usage=/=Viability, it is the largest indicator to viability. So please stop with the nonsensical idea that it isn't the biggest variable in suggesting what is the most viable and what isn't.
- Status