Inheritance [Prime Council Elected]

[xJownage]

yes. I did imply because anyone's good at Inheritance they're good at Inheritance ubers. It's not like I have no clue how Inheritance ubers plays, I can think I don't need to battle. Same thing with every top player in regular Inheritance. What don't you think I know about the metagame? just increase the stats and change the typing and you've got the Ubers metagame, it's really not that different

>not expecting a flame war.

Not even going to bother responding to ANYTHING you say because you think you can juxtapose between regular inheritance and inheritance ubers. Seriously, I'm utterly appalled by how stupid you just made yourself seem.

mega Ray was banned from ubers because it was so uncounterable that one single set could 6-0 any team if it sets up. Deo-A has no set that can 6-0 any team, mega ray did, and it was uncompetitive in that regard. If you think shadow tag isn't broken in ubers, then lol.

Also, koff / drain punch / tbolt / ice beam Azelf wrecks your "unbeatable" team in standard inheritance. koff 2hkos cress, tbolt beats cune, literally can destroy that team if its played decently (ala deo-a).

Honestly though, give me some viable sets that gengar can trap and set up on other than Chansey. Mons don't even need strong attacks to do >50% because gengar is pretty frail. Also even mons that don't aren't completely unusable, just like gothitelle doesn't make anything it can trap unusable. But gengar is worse than that because it needs a turn to mega and can't trick.

Deo-a doesn't do much against offence really, but that is not why it's ban worthy, it's ban worthy from how badly it destroys stall.
about half of those calcs are wrong, and I don't really agree with that set too much in the first place.

the mons that check it are irrelevant, the fact is it's near impossible to switch into twice and you need priority or some sort of scarf to beat it without using something unviable or not useful for stall (mawile).

Don't use the word I. Snaq doesn't even really play inh ubers and you two aren't the only two people who have played it anymore. I don't know why you had to remind me that it's developed.

It doesn't matter how viable gengar is, the fact is that with setup it becomes uncompetitive because it automatically sets up against some ordinarily viable mons. Yall complain about deo-a making stall unviable? Please.

Half of the calcs are wrong? Fine then jackass, go get the right ones using the spreads I provided.

Snaq doesn't play inh ubers, but he is the auth on inheritance anyways. Motherlove and myself have played countless more battles than anybody else here and as a result we basically have made the meta. Apparently you think if you play for a few nights it automatically puts you on par with the ~100 battles I have done in this tier. And apparently I had to remind you that its developed considering you didn't understand the fact that me and motherlove understand the meta unlike we do namemons or something where its unsettled.

I originally put myself in the leadership position 3 weeks ago when nobody else would, and I played the meta constantly ever since. Somebody had to lead the few people who were playing, which included a set database, bans, discussion for pdon quickban, etc. that you weren't there for, and I was that person. I'm not saying I'm automatically authority now, but I am saying I know a helluva lot more about inheritance ubers than you do, and if there is an authority, its either snaq, me, or motherlove.

 

[Snaquaza]

I'll find out whoever of you is right and we'll see later who will lead and everything, but I don't want this thread to turn in a flame war again. Remember that you can just discuss without having to point out who's the leader. Right now nothing is banned in Inheritance Ubers, not even Mega-Rayquaza, since it's not official. Assume whatever you want and play with whatever people want, and you can talk about it, but please do it without bashing others.

 

[motherlove]

Yes, my set has some counters of course, but does Deoxys-A have any counters? Not even close.

Does anything in inheritance have any counters? The main thing about inh is that you can be anything. For example protean + knock of slaking destroys giratina or shell smash + eq mawile destroys primadon. But a particular set has counters. And that's the case for deoxys.

And deoxys has a bunch of slower checks. I already said it may 2hko a lot but it doesn't ohko a lot.

Are we even discussing if gengar is unhealthy or not? It makes every single defensive mon unviable. Even against offense gengar can find opportunities to set up. Oh a choice banded slaking rked you on Espeed? Get ready to face a +6 gengar. Oh you're running special pixi xerneas? Get ready to face a +6 gengar. Y'know gengar can learn encore, disable and moves to boost it's defenses. It doesn't instantly die to any ice beam going towards him.
Gengar has a bunch of things going for him. Really good speed, the possibility to have encore and being immune to espeed. And like jernmax said on his gothitelle post. Shadow tag adds pressure to the opposing team just by existing. You can't reliably go for espeed with your slaking because gengar might switch in and encore you. You can't sd with your groudon because gengar might switch in and encore you. And there's a bunch of stull like that that gengar can switch on. Pixixern, any mega launcher user, any fighting / normal type. Not to mention gengar makes every recovery move stupidly risky.
Encore and disble make gengar even more stupid than it was before.

moving on, for the "deoxys is kinda like megaray in ubers". No. That's just, no. Deoxys's main thing is not being predictable. You don't really know what to switch on it. Rayquaza mega is incredibly predictable. From team preview you know what it's gonna do. And it still can destroy you.
Now that's one thing. But megaray is also bulky as fart. Bulky enough that it isn't hard for him to set up against offensive teams. And unlike deoxys, a full health megaray will not die to any espeed tossed at him.

252+ Atk Silk Scarf Adaptability Slaking Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Rayquaza: 268-316 (76.3 - 90%)
I mean shit... that's a fucking adaptability slaking with a silk scarf. Sure it get's pretty close. But that's still a dead slaking for you and ray is still alive, either at +1 or +2 depending on the boosting move he has, and still has a guaranteed hit on anything that comes in since it packs Espeed.

Really I'm kinda on the fence with this one, it sounds terrifying on paper even in inheritance ubers but may not be as good in practice and i anybody can convince me that it's not op, go ahead. But really I wouldn't mind if game freak wouldn't have created this monster in the first place. It's just above any other pokemon out there.

- Inheriting Wonder Guard, Pure Power, Huge Power, Gale Wings, Arena Trap, Shadow Tag, Imposter, Parental Bond or inheriting from Smeargle is banned
- Shedinja is banned

Can we all just please agree on this?

 

[grurk]

All the calcs that are done assume that rocks aren't up, which are really easy with the lack of magic bounce.
+2 252 Atk Life Orb Mega Rayquaza Extreme Speed vs. 168 HP / 44 Def Slaking: 277-326 (57.3 - 67.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
(277, 279, 283, 286, 290, 292, 296, 299, 303, 305, 309, 312, 316, 318, 322, 326)

this is a calc for slaking beating rayquaza at +2 (the spread is better than 252 hp 4 whatever, it has 44 spdef as well)

Also I now think that mengar is banworthy sheerly due to the venomoth quiver pass set, the rest aren't really op imo.

 

[motherlove]

All the calcs that are done assume that rocks aren't up, which are really easy with the lack of magic bounce.
+2 252 Atk Life Orb Mega Rayquaza Extreme Speed vs. 168 HP / 44 Def Slaking: 277-326 (57.3 - 67.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
(277, 279, 283, 286, 290, 292, 296, 299, 303, 305, 309, 312, 316, 318, 322, 326)

this is a calc for slaking beating rayquaza at +2 (the spread is better than 252 hp 4 whatever, it has 44 spdef as well)

Also I now think that mengar is banworthy sheerly due to the venomoth quiver pass set, the rest aren't really op imo.

wait, what is that calc even suppose to prove? Mega ray beats slaking 1v1, that's it. Draco + espeed and ded slaking. Even if you're running a weird bulky spread (I usually run max speed but w/e)

And it isn't about gengar being op (which he is) it's about being completely uncompetitive. You're the one arguing for deoxis ban after all.

 

[Chopin Alkaninoff]

- Inheriting Wonder Guard, Pure Power, Huge Power, Gale Wings, Arena Trap, Shadow Tag, Imposter, Parental Bond or inheriting from Smeargle or Sableye is banned.

I agree with this except for Gale Wings and Sableye part, which I think it should be allowed for now.

 

[Mr155551]

Ok i don't want to get into trouble but can we please stop this deoxys-a argument thank you

 

[Imperator Romanum]

Ok i don't want to get into trouble but can we please stop this deoxys-a argument thank you

No, we're discussing it.

 

[canno]

What I don't understand is how is Deo-A any better at murdering stall than, say, PH Slaking or even M-Gengar? For example.

Slaking @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Facade
- Knock Off
- Substitute / Earthquake
- Swords Dance

How does Stall beat this? Sure it might not be able to 2HKO everything on Stall, but Stall can literally do nothing to this outside of maybe phaze with a million hazards or something. You can't burn it, you can't wear it down with poison, and its too bulky to kill with stall's generally weak attacks unlike Deo-A who, if it fails to OHKO something it will die unless its like Chansey's Seismic Toss or something. And then there's M-Gengar. Even if it can't manage to set-up (which it can, even on offense it can abuse something like a mon at -2 from Dracoing, especially with Quiver since it will boost its SpDef), you still have a mon that basically comes in and removes any Pokemon that gives you a problem. Lets say that we have said Slaking and M-Gengar mentioned, and you have a Skarm or Dialga or whatever as your only answer. As soon as M-Gengar traps you and even weakens you, you suddenly lose to Slaking. And you can tailor its moveset to kill whatever you want because it gets Shadow Tag after Mega Evolving. Want to destroy Skarmory? Run something like Nidoking so you have both Fire Blast and Thunderbolt (in case its Flash Fire or Volt Absorb).

 

[motherlove]

What I don't understand is how is Deo-A any better at murdering stall than, say, PH Slaking or even M-Gengar? For example.

Slaking @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Facade
- Knock Off
- Substitute / Earthquake
- Swords Dance

How does Stall beat this? Sure it might not be able to 2HKO everything on Stall, but Stall can literally do nothing to this outside of maybe phaze with a million hazards or something. You can't burn it, you can't wear it down with poison, and its too bulky to kill with stall's generally weak attacks unlike Deo-A who, if it fails to OHKO something it will die unless its like Chansey's Seismic Toss or something. And then there's M-Gengar. Even if it can't manage to set-up (which it can, even on offense it can abuse something like a mon at -2 from Dracoing, especially with Quiver since it will boost its SpDef), you still have a mon that basically comes in and removes any Pokemon that gives you a problem. Lets say that we have said Slaking and M-Gengar mentioned, and you have a Skarm or Dialga or whatever as your only answer. As soon as M-Gengar traps you and even weakens you, you suddenly lose to Slaking. And you can tailor its moveset to kill whatever you want because it gets Shadow Tag after Mega Evolving. Want to destroy Skarmory? Run something like Nidoking so you have both Fire Blast and Thunderbolt (in case its Flash Fire or Volt Absorb).

skill swap, mummy, unaware + counter, haze.
And mega gengar is completely stupid.

 

[xJownage]

So after discussing it out with jernmax, I had a change in heart because I realized I didn't want deo-a in the tier in the first place. Since nobody is in charge here, we go by the honors system. Democracy has agreed on these two bans: Deoxys-Attack and Mega Gengar are banned. For those of us who agree with it, which is all of us, I see no reason not to just say it is and so long as we are honorable this is what we can do. We define this metagame. Meanwhile, Zekrom is a problem as well because it 2hkos basically everything on stall that's not fur coat. If any of you believe that Zekrom is competitive, then speak now. The argument is that Zekrom is uncompetitive because it makes stall obsolete in the same way that Mega Gar does, so if you disagree with this then argue it.

 

[canno]

Shouldn't we also ban Deo-N then, since while it is Deo-A lite it is still Deo-A lite and can basically do the same thing Deo-A can.

 

[Schpoonman]

skill swap, mummy, unaware + counter, haze.
And mega gengar is completely stupid.

Skill Swap still has to eat the +2 Facade or Knock Off, same with Mummy and Haze, and Mummy can be solved by switching out. Meanwhile, Skill Swap is beaten outright by Substitute. Nothing to say about Mega Gengar, that shit was damn near AG in standard Uber, it's only better now that it gets boosting moves and other great options.

 

[xJownage]

Shouldn't we also ban Deo-N then, since while it is Deo-A lite it is still Deo-A lite and can basically do the same thing Deo-A can.

Deo-N is significantly weaker than Deo-A and actually plays a lot like standard azelf except probably weaker with the bulk creep. If it proves to be too broken then it will get banned, but it certainly doesn't seem nearly as broken.

 

[I like donkeys]

So after discussing it out with jernmax, I had a change in heart because I realized I didn't want deo-a in the tier in the first place. Since nobody is in charge here, we go by the honors system. Democracy has agreed on these two bans: Deoxys-Attack and Mega Gengar are banned. For those of us who agree with it, which is all of us, I see no reason not to just say it is and so long as we are honorable this is what we can do. We define this metagame. Meanwhile, Zekrom is a problem as well because it 2hkos basically everything on stall that's not fur coat. If any of you believe that Zekrom is competitive, then speak now. The argument is that Zekrom is uncompetitive because it makes stall obsolete in the same way that Mega Gar does, so if you disagree with this then argue it.

Although i have yet to face Zekrom, I don't see how it is uncompetitive compared to, say, Mega Gengar. Sure with tough claws it becomes ridiculously strong, but so are a lot of other Pokemon for various reasons. Primal Groudon and Slaking are both ridiculously strong (sorry but Slaking is so much better than Regigigas), Pdon's STAB V-create plows through anything that's not straight up immune to fire, even 4x resists take a crapload:

252+ Atk Primal Groudon V-create vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Palkia in Harsh Sunshine: 154-182 (47.8 - 56.5%) -- 86.7% chance to 2HKO

And has priority to boot. Slaking on the other hand is incredibly strong because of it's variety. The most common set is a copy paste of Adaptability Ursaring (which is arguably the strongest priority in the tier), but its bulk allow it to utilize other things like PH. Pdon and Slaking severely restrict balance and offense, respectively.
Also, can someone please explain to me why Deoxys-A is banned? Deo-A is pretty darn strong, but i don't see how it's uncompetitive the point of being ban-worthy. Lacking ANY counters is unfortunate, but it does have a lot of checks. I don't see how it renders certain Pokemon useless throughout the match - something Mega Gengar does. It's clearly not as strong as the other ubers powerhouses, and it lacks extremespeed to tackle opposing extremespeed.

 

[IronGrahn]

(sry for one-liner)
Where can I play this format? I looked on Showdown but couldn't find it.

 

[Chopin Alkaninoff]

*facepalm*

So Deoxys-A is banned? It's perfectly competitive, as it has viable checks (not counters). I don't mind Mega Gengar ban but I never agreed on Deoxys-A ban. Remember that overpoweredness is NOT equal to uncompetitiveness.

Remember that Inheritance are based on checking things, not countering things. Mega Ray in standard doesn't even have checks, that's why it's uncompetitive. Deoxys-A is perfectly competitive because it has checks that are viable, and doesn't make you run things like Magnet Rise Klefki. Banning Deoxys-A and suspecting Zekrom makes this just like OU 2.0, which doesn't fit Ubers. Uncounterable isn't a good reason to ban it.

Wallbreakers in general makes Stall obsolete, just like Landorus I in OU. How the hell something is uncompetitive just because its destroying Stall?

Anyway, not everyone agrees with Deoxys-A or Zekrom ban because there are checks to it, which makes it perfectly competitive. Please don't ban things on your own before listening to other opinions.

 

[Snaquaza]

Just calling in, since I have actually not played this yet, but this is going in a wrong direction again. Since I'm the leader of Inheritance I'll say that Deoxys-Attack and Mega Gengar are not banned right now, however they're being proposed to be banned. Feel free to discuss both of them and I'll see which side has the most support and best arguments after a while. Feel free to challenge me on PS as well if you want me to experience them first hand.

 

[Isa Simple]

Personally I'm against the Deoxys-A ban too.

It is just that it is beyond squishy. 50/20/20 Defences are mean you die to literally anything. One wrong predict and its dead.
It has no perfect counters but neither do plenty of things in Ubers. It has enough checks that if Deoxys predicts wrong, and the switch in survives the hit, that switch could easily be running priority or Scarf and you will be none the wiser because it is inheritance. Yes you could choose not to risk it and switch out but then you lose momentum. Oh and I don't mean predictable priority like E-Speed Slaking, I mean literally any priority, it doesn't have to be STAB.

Also literally the only play style it can come in on is stall. Because any pokemon on Balance or Offence will OHKO it.
We don't need to ban Deoxys-A, we just need to give Stall time to adapt. There are plenty of metas where Stall has become slightly more offensive in order to better handle other play styles. In fact it may even have been regular Inheritance where AV Entei inheriting from Ho-oh became a thing on stall.
I'm gonna point out again that 50/20/20 defences are absolutely nothing. If a few stall mons found room for just one offensive move Deoxys-A either dies on the switch in, or fails to OHKO and gets deleted.
For a couple examples, perhaps Shadow Sneak on your Giratina could work:
0 Atk Giratina Shadow Sneak vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Deoxys-A: 270-318 (112 - 131.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Or perhaps you think you could bring your Deoxys in safely vs the opposing Blissey?
0 SpA Blissey Hyper Voice vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Deoxys-A: 264-312 (109.5 - 129.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Adapt people. Give stall a chance to adapt.

I don't really have an opinion on Zekrom as of yet because I haven't seen it and am not sure what it runs. Could someone please give some sample Zekrom sets and explain why it could be potentially broken.

As for Mega Gengar I'm leaning towards pro ban. I can imagine shit like Quiver dance sets being extremely hard to deal with as you can only do so much to prevent it from setting up, and once its there the immunity to E-Speed isn't helping Gengar's case much.

And lastly, rather than just banning pokemon in general, is there any chance of us just banning certain pokemon from inheriting or certain combinations? Or is that too complex?

I g2g atm so I won't bother proof reading. I'll fix any mistakes later.

 

[Chopin Alkaninoff]

Just calling in, since I have actually not played this yet, but this is going in a wrong direction again. Since I'm the leader of Inheritance I'll say that Deoxys-Attack and Mega Gengar are not banned right now, however they're being proposed to be banned. Feel free to discuss both of them and I'll see which side has the most support and best arguments after a while. Feel free to challenge me on PS as well if you want me to experience them first hand.

By now, I'm sure everyone agrees for Mega Gengar ban, but not Deoxys-A.

 

[Snaquaza]

By now, I'm sure everyone agrees for Mega Gengar ban, but not Deoxys-A.

I'm still letting it be discussed for if anyone is against it. The decision of them will be made together and if you don't want to play against it in the meantime, just tell your opponent not to use it.

 

[DarkeKnight]

(sry for one-liner)
Where can I play this format? I looked on Showdown but couldn't find it.

It used to be OMotM but now you can play only through challenges or in Aqua.

As for the discussion about Deoxys, I simply think that we just need to give stall some time. Azelf was always very powerful in normal inheritance but due to the large number of people playing and the variety of movesets used by Azelf, it wasn't broken enough to warrant a ban. It's just that since ~10 people actually Ubers, Deo-A seems OP.

 

[I like donkeys]

I don't really have an opinion on Zekrom as of yet because I haven't seen it and am not sure what it runs. Could someone please give some sample Zekrom sets and explain why it could be potentially broken.

Typical sets inherit from megazard x, which is usually DD setup sweeper with life orb, but i have also seen scarf. Some people have noted victini Zekrom to get bolt strike + v-create and some other stuff, but to be honest its nowhere near as good as tough claws Zekrom.

 

[Imperator Romanum]

I do believe I could make a stall team that can function, I don't believe I can make it with Deoxys-A in the tier. Well, I don't believe, I know. Yes Deoxys-A is easy to check with priority, but in reality what priority? You need extreme speed as it gets three types of priority on its own, shadow sneak, sucker punch and fake out. It can revenge kill something with Shadow sneak and you suddenly can't revenge kill it with Extreme speed slaking. Oh, and the fact that stall never ever runs priority sort of diminishes its ability to handle stall, it kill it before it kills something and since it 2HKOs everything when it comes in on a weakened mon it will get a kill, every single time.

 

[motherlove]

I don't really have an opinion on Zekrom as of yet because I haven't seen it and am not sure what it runs. Could someone please give some sample Zekrom sets and explain why it could be potentially broken.

Hue (Zekrom) @ Choice Band
Ability: Tough Claws
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Outrage
- Thunder Punch
- Earthquake
- Flare Blitz

Also, can someone please explain to me why Deoxys-A is banned? Deo-A is pretty darn strong, but i don't see how it's uncompetitive the point of being ban-worthy. Lacking ANY counters is unfortunate, but it does have a lot of checks. I don't see how it renders certain Pokemon useless throughout the match - something Mega Gengar does. It's clearly not as strong as the other ubers powerhouses, and it lacks extremespeed to tackle opposing extremespeed.

Because jernmax didn't like it.

Now talking about zekrom, my main problem with it is that it performs exactly the same thing as haxorus in regular, even having almost the same base attack. And yet haxorus isn't banned in regular.

I personaly have been using mega alt ever since i heard zekrom was a tihng. Flash fire ferro / whimsicott, pixi arceus, intimidate rhydon, lightningrod xern / azumarill also counter. But there are other ways stall can deal with zekrom, prankster encore, most rhydons with counter, baby doll eyes, will-o-wisp. Groudon can live a hit and ko with eq. And just a fairy + a ground forces zekrom to make predicts that could cause his death.

Zekrom is op yes, but I really don't see what it has over say rayquaza, haxorus or facking kyurem black who is even more powerfull.

I do believe I could make a stall team that can function, I don't believe I can make it with Deoxys-A in the tier. Well, I don't believe, I know. Yes Deoxys-A is easy to check with priority, but in reality what priority? You need extreme speed as it gets three types of priority on its own, shadow sneak, sucker punch and fake out. It can revenge kill something with Shadow sneak and you suddenly can't revenge kill it with Extreme speed slaking. Oh, and the fact that stall never ever runs priority sort of diminishes its ability to handle stall, it kill it before it kills something and since it 2HKOs everything when it comes in on a weakened mon it will get a kill, every single time.

We don't need to ban Deoxys-A, we just need to give Stall time to adapt. There are plenty of metas where Stall has become slightly more offensive in order to better handle other play styles. In fact it may even have been regular Inheritance where AV Entei inheriting from Ho-oh became a thing on stall.

Also I already mentioned that any pokemon can run pursuit and that deoxys relies HEAVILY on perfect predicts to be effective. Situation: deoxis come in on my weakened xerneas, i can either stay in or switch on my primadon (carrying pursuit) on the predicted gunk shot. Now if deoxys predicts that and goes for low kick / dark pulse and I stay in he loses, if he goes for gunk shot and i switch he loses and if he goes for gunk shot and I stay in he kills one pokemon and I can then just send my groudon and kill him. There's a bunch of ways this situation could be even better for me. My xern could be running protect and prankster encore or it could be running extremespeed or any priority.
Also, deoxys only has 4 move slots ffs, it can't be running suker punch + fake out + low kick + gunk shot + ice beam + shadow sneak + ice beam and whatever else he learns. And since 90% of deoxys will run sucker punch that's already 1 move you don't have to worry about.

Also I'm going to take the time to share this mawile set that I've found to be extremely ducking good.

Mawile @ Mawilite
Ability: Sturdy
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Shell Smash
- Iron Head
- Earthquake
- Knock Off
How powerfull is this? Really, REALLY powerfull. Considering groudon is the nb1 mawile switchin and this ohkoes him at +2.