Gen 3 Non-Ubers in Ubers

[MMII]

Yeah I just mentioned the psychic thing cause there's still remnants that seem to think psychic is a move you use on psychics, which is actually never the case. It wasn't meant to contest your points in heracross' favor as much as make sure new guys aren't too misinformed.

I don't think we actually disagree, though. It seems we are just using different adjectives to try to quantify the same vague amount that is heracross' viability. Half empty, half full deal.

 

[shrang]

Yeah, I'm not too sure what Heracross does. I guess it does have SubSalac or Endure/Reversal, but it doesn't seem like it does that much. Sure, it can switch in and threaten stall mons and stuff, but it's sort of frail by Ubers standards, relatively slow (so you're going to have to run speed, which in turn doesn't help its meh bulk), doesn't help against Boltbeam spam or practically anything on offensive apart from probably Donner.

 

[MMII]

Oh, I don't remember if I mentioned this earlier but Registeel is really realy really realylreyalreyalryezlrke cool.

I use basically two sets:
Curse/Boom/EQ/HP Ghost - This guy is straight up Boombot. Grab Curses early on to force out mons like Kyogre and Groudon (or Ho-Oh if they have it) then just blow up on them since they can't really kill Registeel without resorting to those guys. It's great on weather sweeper teams but also on stuff that just like getting rid of two amazing Pokemon early on.

Stoss/Amnesia/Toxic/Boom - If you want your Registeel to stick around to abuse his amazing durability and wonderful typing then this is the set for you. It doesn't really pressure the opposing team as much as the first set since no boosted Booms but it's hard to really take advantage of this guy since Stoss/Toxic is a pest. Even more so when Registeel has 23434324 opportunities to switch in and rub salt in the wounds. Amnesia lets you beat out those CM Lati@s that try to just muscle past you as well as enter a pp stall war with mono Latias. Boom rounds out the set by making sure you don't lose that PP stall war as well as letting your Registeel take a life when your opponent finally manages to wear his bulky ass down. The only real flaw to this set is that Forry/Skarm don't care too much Stoss and will just drop layers of Spikes. You'll have to keep this flaw in mind when building the rest of the team so you don't lose to something silly. Aggressive play can help with this, too.

 

[shrang]

Something I just theorymoned up today, but haven't tried just yet: Flareon. Its base 130 Attack is really nice, especially since the thing gets Shadow Ball. It's got a pretty usable Special Defense to back itself up too, being a pretty good Boltbeam switch-in. I've only been considering the SpD set so far, as it can switch into Lati@s using Dragon Claw/Thunder pretty damn well, but it could potentially use Choice Band as well.

Flareon @ Leftovers
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Nature: Sassy
- Wish
- Protect
- Shadow Ball
- Fire Blast

With max HP/max SpD, you take 43.41% - 51.50% from +0 Modest Latios's Dragon Claw/Thunder (same power), you can avoid a 2HKO after Leftovers, providing no Spikes. Wish and Protect is nice for the recovery. Shadow Ball easily 2HKOs Latios in return. Fire Blast allows you to not be Spike-fodder from Forretress, which a lot Lati@s switch-ins tend to be.

Haven't really thought about this yet, but hey, if something like Swampert (that gets 2HKOed by Latios's Dragon Claw) is a thing, why not this?

Flareon @ Choice Band
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Nature: Brave
- Shadow Ball
- Double Edge / Body Slam
- Overheat
- HP Fighting / Quick Attack

 

[MMII]

Hmm, that's interesting. What are the calcs for +1 Tbolt? How much does Shadow Ball do to the Latis? It could an interesting way to cover Ho-Oh on sun builds and give you a decent backup lati check. The cb set seems more promising to me in that respect.

 

[shrang]

+0 Latios T-bolt vs 252/252+ Flareon: 33.43% - 39.53%
+1 Latios T-bolt vs 252/252+ Flareon: 50.29% - 59.30%
4 Atk Flareon Shadow Ball vs 4/0 Latios: 57.62% - 68.21%
4 Atk Flareon Shadow Ball vs 4/0 Latias: 52.32% - 62.25%
4 Atk Flareon Shadow Ball vs 252/0 Latias: 43.41% - 51.65%

CB:
Shadow Ball vs 252/252+ Latias: 60.99% - 71.98%
Shadow Ball vs 4/0 Latios: 114.57% - 135.10%
Shadow Ball vs 4/0 Latias: 103.97% - 122.52%
+1 Latios T-bolt vs 252/4 Flareon: 68.31% - 80.52%

 

[Minority]

Shame it doesn't check Lati better. The first set loses if it switches into Latios as it CMs and loses to defensive mono Latias. The CB set outright dies to Thunder or Dragon Claw 31% of the time if it switches into Modest Latios as it CMs, or is simply 2HKOed if it switches into Thunder, Dragon Claw, or even Thunderbolt. You're also shredded by the rare DD Latios that has Earthquake.

For a defensive set I think Flareon is pretty much outclassed by Umbreon as far as a Lati check + Wish support is concerned, and the CB set is outclassed by Ho-Oh. You could say even the defensive set is outclassed by Ho-Oh when you compare how much more bulky Ho-Oh is and how it has access to Sacred Fire and Recover. There are few to no situations where not having Flying typing pays off for giving up physical STAB, bulk, speed, Sacred Fire, and a ground immunity. The only move a CB set has that Ho-Oh doesn't is Quick Attack, which is weak, but could prove useful in some rare situations.

 

[Fireburn]

Flareon is also a 100% free switch-in for Kyogre which isn't fun at all :(

 

[Inspirited]

I just really dislike the way flareon looks tbh. It doesnt have the gargantuan hp stat, strong STAB, spammable STAB moves, the toxic immunty or STAB Self-Destruct of Snorlax which makes the panda better on offensive teams than Flareon. While it is not weak to Thunder, Flareon does not have the instant recovery, Sacred Fire, secondary physical STAB (albeit weak in Ho-Oh's case), Spikes immunity, ridiculous Special Defense, or passable Speed of Ho-Oh. Its only saving grace is wish which is done better by other mons in most situations anyhow. Sorry to say it shrang, but flareon just doesn't really do enough to seperate it from better mons.

 

[MMII]

idk, I do find the perks of absorbing ho-oh sacred fires to be useful, especially since that sun team you would be sticking it on will be reducing thunder lati@s a bit so it becomes a better soft check. I could see it working although it's without a doubt going to be strained.

 

[shrang]

eh worth a shot