np: ORAS UU Stage 3.1 - Sex on Fire [Victini Remains BL]

[Kink]

Togekiss is a completely different story and had a 60% chance to flinch, and combined with its godly typing and the fact that it could boost while it was bullshitting its way through the other team made it even more broken than Jirachi ever was and could turn games around in an instant by just being Togekiss. Mega Pidgeot is completely different because it only runs one set, doesn't get the chance to boost itself, and even if it gets that 30% chance it relies on a 50% chance past that for the opponent to hit itself- that's a 15% chance of taking away a turn for the opponent as opposed to a 60% chance. Not the mention Togekiss is bulkier, can run an item, and has a better typing and has decent coverage past just Hurricane and Heat Wave.

On the other hand, I have always had a hard time analyzing Pidgeot's affect on the metagame as whole (looking past inherent brokenness for a minute) because it's not the strongest mon in the tier, it's not the most versatile, and it doesn't have qualities that are simply better than any other pokemon in the tier. The sole reason that Pidgeot is so good and is considered one of the best (if not the best) pokemon in the metagame is because it has access to the one move that all of its sets are based around, 100% accurate Hurricane. Hurricane's design is based around a move that is absurdly strong with a 30% chance to confuse the opponent (probably the worst status effect that's not Freeze) but that only hits 70% of the time, the same accuracy as Focus Blast, which means the pokemon that use it oftentimes find themselves missing more than they do reaping the rewards of obtaining such a strong STAB. The difficulty in assessing Pidgeot lies in the fact that it destroys the drawbacks of using the move- there is no drawback from clicking Hurricane because it never misses, is only resisted by 3 types in the game, all of which are relatively rare in UU; there are only four Electric-types in the tier, two of which are 2HKO'd by Hurricane after Rocks, 1 of which is worn down easily with no reliable recovery and is weak to rocks and the other which is also worn down really easily. There are only 2 rock types in the tier and one of them is regular Aggron, and Empoleon is the only steel really capable of checking Pidgeot since everything else at least has a chance of being 2HKO'd by Heat Wave after rocks. I've always believed flying was a godlike offensive typing because its resists are so few and far between, so much so that after Jirachi moved up most UU teams didn't feel the need to pack a resist, because the only Flying-type worth noting was Mega Aerodactyl which could easily be checked by Swampert or Suicune. I think there's not as much of a centralizing factor in Pidgeot as there is an inherent brokenness in no guard Hurricane, because not only do you get a free chance to fire off a 110 BP STAB move backed by 135 SpA but you are also rewarded nearly 1/3 of the time by getting a confusion, and then the game turns into a series of 50/50s as to whether or not you get a free turn. If you take one thing away from this paragraph, take this statement as to why Pidgeot is inherently broken: It doesn't matter whether or not Pidgeot has counters, because even if you Hurricane into a Empoleon you lose nothing and have a 1/3 chance to confuse the Empoleon and then have a chance to render it useless for turns at a time. All of its answers aren't planning on sweeping any teams any time soon (part of the reason why I voted no ban for Victini) because unlike V-Create there is no problem with clicking Hurricane. If you Hurricane into a Rotom-H, so what? Pidgeot simply switches out and Rotom probably clicks Volt Switch, getting the opponent momentum- it's not going to sweep you anytime soon, and even if it forces a sack by getting a free switch into a wallbreaker that's not going to lose you the game, like giving Feraligatr free Dragon Dances. There is literally no reason not to click Hurricane with Pidgeot and the fact that you have a chance to confuse the hurricane on top of it is what sets it over the edge.

Also, while I agree with some of King UU's posts up above, I have to say that the opportunity cost of not using Pidgeot is not as absurd as you stated above; sure, Pidgeot is strong, but it's not the strongest pokemon in the tier. Your points are all true but they are somewhat exaggerated (very exaggerated, actually). Mega Pidgeot, Mega Aerodactyl, Mega Beedrill, and Mega Blastoise are four megas that I would almost always use over any other megas, because they're simply a cut above everything else. Mega Pidgeot isn't so good that I would never use Mega Blastoise, Mega Aero, or Mega Beedrill, and I wouldn't not use Feraligatr because I want to use Mega Pidgeot. It's good, but it's not so good that it invalidates usage of other pokemon- that's taking it a bit too far.

I said lesser used mons, not Megas.

 

[slated]

I said lesser used mons, not Megas.

Okay. Let me ask this because I'm honestly not sure: how exactly does Mega Pidgeot's offensive prowess limit the viability of lesser used mons? There are pokemon like Pidgeot in every tier : pokemon who have traits that outshine traits of pokemon lower than it in viability; that's pretty much the definition of an S rank pokemon, one that does its job better than almost every other pokemon in the tier. That doesn't necessarily mean that pokemon below it on the viability rankings become less viable, that just means that it is one of the most viable pokemon in the tier. Mega Pidgeot's role won't be fulfilled by any lower-rank pokemon anyway; there are no fast, strong Flying-type attackers that are viable in this tier other than Moltres which has obvious, viable niches over Pidgeot in terms of usage. Mega Pidgeot doesn't make me "not want to use" anything, nor does it fit on every team I make like Jirachi did. I can't slap a Mega Pidgeot on stall and call it a day, because that team is worse without it. I see what points you're getting at but I still think they're completely overexaggerated. Mega Pidgeot isn't some horribly overcentralizing monster like we've had in the past, nor does it fit on every team or, frankly, every playstyle like we've had in the past. It's great on offensive, it's great on balance, but being such a powerful offensive attacker like it is it's not something that you can just slap on defensive teams and call it a day considering it's not even the best wallbreaker in the tier.

 

[Lapras!]

First of all, Aero isn't the best counter to Pidgeot, Empoleon is. Second, You can get boned by hax by anything, it isn't exclusive to Pidgeot. For example, Keldeo in OUs number one counter is Latias/Latios. You hardly see Keldeo click anything other than Scald until Lati is burned and then it can either go with some Sub CM shenanigans or just try to kill it with Secret Sword. Other examples would be something like Suicune spamming Scald until its normal checks are weakened. Next, in the scenario you described above it is entirely possible to "outplay the hax" that occurred. More often than not, by the time you need to check Pidgeot a second time you have something that has outlived its usefulness and you can get rid of it. Sack something so you don't have to risk Pidgeot being "bullshit" and then the Pursuit is risk free and Aerodactyl can continue being very good like it always is. If you leave yourself vulnerable to getting haxed then you can't complain. Furthermore, you also can certainly see Aero muscle past some of its normal counters like Suicune through the use of Hone Claws and dodging a Scald Burn. Your point about preparing in the "best possible way" is kind of silly as well since Aerodactyl is far from a sturdy check. That sort of preparation is similar to using Banded Tyrantrum to check Crocune. Sure if you can dodge the burn then good job, but a burn spells that you're up shit creek without a paddle. Also, your whole Hydrei isn't flinching past Florges is exactly the same thing with Empoleon and Pidgeot. There is no fucking way that Empo is getting broken by Pidgeot on its own. It does like 15-18% or something like that with Hurricane and Heat Wave does like 4% more. Counters exist for defensive teams and it's fairly simple to pressure it offensively.

I would say that the fact that you recommend sacking something to avoid the confusion chance is a weak argument and imo highlights pidgeot's brokenness more than ever. The fact is aero SHOULD be a sturdy check but thanks to confusion it isn't. Take bulky m-aero for example:

252+ SpA Mega Pidgeot Hurricane vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Mega Aerodactyl: 105-125 (28.9 - 34.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock

Looks pretty solid right? But what if my M-Aero gets confused, denying it the chance to recover? Is that my fault for 'leaving myself open to hax?' Should I run Mega-Ampharos as well on my team, for backup in the likely event of that happening? When Aero (if you want to use that example) muscles past Suicune with hone claws, it's because hone claws is a set which is used specifically to give Aero the advantage of getting past some of its checks. But when Pidgeot confuses Maero, or Florges, or Umbreon, it is not because it is using a specific set to deal with them. It is just doing the same thing it always does: clicking hurricane with a 30% confuse chance and zero risk. Also, in longer battles, which involve circular patterns of switching, you WILL at some point get confused, which immediately gives Pidg and its teammates an advantage allowing them the opportunity to remove a key mon.

It is not just the hax that makes Pidgeot broken. It the hax combined with Pidgeot's other outstanding characteristics that make it so. In fact, it's not even Pidgeot's other characteristics, though I might talk about those later. It is the characteristics of Hurricane itself. If Hurricane DOESN'T confuse you, you have still fired off a 110 BP STAB move which gets AMAZING coverage in this tier. Most teams only have one flying resist. Let's say for this example it is your favourite pidgeot check, empoleon. Empoleon, importantly, has no recovery. If you continue to hit Empoleon with Hurricane every time it switches in, Empoleon will eventually die. Still, I understand you play offence and you people like things to happen quickly. So what if Pidgeot U-Turns on Empoleon? U-Turns into, say, Krookodile? Pidge and Krook have now just forced empoleon into a 50/50. (Krook also handily deals with other Pidge checks in Mega Ampharos and Blissey). I get that's a specific situation which may not happen, but what I am saying is this:

1) Hurricane is extremely threatening, forcing the opponent to switch to their flying resist/special wall whenever Pidgeot comes in.
2) Pidgeot uses U-Turn on the obvious switch.
3) Pidgeot gets free momentum every time it switches in.

The Krook situation is just an example of what Pidgeot can do with its momentum.

 

[Kink]

It doesn't need to be the best wallbreaker in the game; it has a 110 base power STAB matched by 135 base special attack with a 30% chance to confuse. I think you're confusing my meaning when I say that it overshadows mons like Moltres, Noivern, or other feasible flying types that were completely nullified in terms of viability since Pidgeot has all the toys + a superbonus always hitting kapow.

My points are not over-exaggerated at all. Mega Pidgeot fits on almost any team archetype that is built around it as a Mega. It forces unconditional situations due to its overwhelming confuse rate, and this is something that's been plaguing the tier for quite some time now. Mega Pidgeot is currently the single most well balanced Pokemon in this tier, as it can literally shift 1 move in its arsenal and become a completely different weapon. This causes a simple concept known as centralization, in which an average user attempts to prepare for a Pokemon via favourable matchup, and, being entirely unable to do so, is then forced to to build cores around solely taking down Mega Pidgeot.

I can (and will) provide multiple scenarios and replays when the time comes to illustrate the nature of Mega Pidgeot's explicit overcentralization. Stop thinking about Mamoswine's Ice Shard being the solution to this tiers problems involving Mega Pidgeot, it's next.

 

[YABO]

If you have the option to play where hax is not a possible outcome then you should go for it. Pokemon is a game about increasing probability and maximizing the chances that your play will work. Switching Aero into a Hurricane is the same as switching a physical attacker into a weakened bulky water. If you don't make the play that will allow you to win 100% then you can't complain when you lose due to "bullshit"

 

[Adaam]

First of all, Aero isn't the best counter to Pidgeot, Empoleon is. Second, You can get boned by hax by anything, it isn't exclusive to Pidgeot. For example, Keldeo in OUs number one counter is Latias/Latios. You hardly see Keldeo click anything other than Scald until Lati is burned and then it can either go with some Sub CM shenanigans or just try to kill it with Secret Sword. Other examples would be something like Suicune spamming Scald until its normal checks are weakened. Next, in the scenario you described above it is entirely possible to "outplay the hax" that occurred. More often than not, by the time you need to check Pidgeot a second time you have something that has outlived its usefulness and you can get rid of it. Sack something so you don't have to risk Pidgeot being "bullshit" and then the Pursuit is risk free and Aerodactyl can continue being very good like it always is. If you leave yourself vulnerable to getting haxed then you can't complain. Furthermore, you also can certainly see Aero muscle past some of its normal counters like Suicune through the use of Hone Claws and dodging a Scald Burn. Your point about preparing in the "best possible way" is kind of silly as well since Aerodactyl is far from a sturdy check. That sort of preparation is similar to using Banded Tyrantrum to check Crocune. Sure if you can dodge the burn then good job, but a burn spells that you're up shit creek without a paddle. Also, your whole Hydrei isn't flinching past Florges is exactly the same thing with Empoleon and Pidgeot. There is no fucking way that Empo is getting broken by Pidgeot on its own. It does like 15-18% or something like that with Hurricane and Heat Wave does like 4% more. Counters exist for defensive teams and it's fairly simple to pressure it offensively.

You are correct that Emp is the best counter but it is still vulnerable to confusion. Other people have already addressed your post but I just want to reiterate that nothing is safe from confusehax, even Emp. Obviously Pidgeot is doing 0 to it but nobody good would stay in on a healthy Emp. However, if it gets confused on the switch then it's possible that the Pidgeot user gets his own free switch in. The Empoleon may try to use the Pidgeot switch to Defog rocks away, but it ends up hitting itself in confusion and Pidgeot U-Turns into Heracross. Now the Emp user is put on the defensive.

And I'm gonna digress a bit and address the "vulnerable to hax" argument. I'm not sure how I left mysef vulnerable to hax by switching into aero (this was early game so I couldn't really sack anything). My aero was crippled by hax early game and Pidgeot didn't return until late game, but it's presence prevented my Infernape from sweeping when it should have been dead, so again, I couldn't sack anything to kill it since it didn't come back (I really wish I had saved the replay). I shouldn't have said I had nothing to take Hurricanes since that's not why I lost, but again I digress.

EDIT

If you have the option to play where hax is not a possible outcome then you should go for it. Pokemon is a game about increasing probability and maximizing the chances that your play will work. Switching Aero into a Hurricane is the same as switching a physical attacker into a weakened bulky water. If you don't make the play that will allow you to win 100% then you can't complain when you lose do to "bullshit"

The difference between that example is the bulky water is clicking an 80 BP move off a not so high SpA (unless it's a Mega Blastoise or boosted Suicune) versus a 110 BP move coming off amazing SpA and Speed, so whatever is switching in usually can/will take 2 hurricanes, so there aren't many better plays to do unless you also have an Empoleon or something. On the other hand, there are many more scald absorbers in the tier than Hurricane absorbers, so we aren't forced to switch in the physical attacker into a scald

 

[Sam]

It doesn't need to be the best wallbreaker in the game; it has a 110 base power STAB matched by 135 base special attack with a 30% chance to confuse. I think you're confusing my meaning when I say that it overshadows mons like Moltres, Noivern, or other feasible flying types that were completely nullified in terms of viability since Pidgeot has all the toys + a superbonus always hitting kapow.

My points are not over-exaggerated at all. Mega Pidgeot fits on almost any team archetype that is built around it as a Mega. It forces unconditional situations due to its overwhelming confuse rate, and this is something that's been plaguing the tier for quite some time now. Mega Pidgeot is currently the single most well balanced Pokemon in this tier, as it can literally shift 1 move in its arsenal and become a completely different weapon. This causes a simple concept known as centralization, in which an average user attempts to prepare for a Pokemon via favourable matchup, and, being entirely unable to do so, is then forced to to build cores around solely taking down Mega Pidgeot.

I can (and will) provide multiple scenarios and replays when the time comes to illustrate the nature of Mega Pidgeot's explicit overcentralization. Stop thinking about Mamoswine's Ice Shard being the solution to this tiers problems involving Mega Pidgeot, it's next.

Hi yeah I have a few points to address here.

Mega Pidgeot hasn't really invalidated Moltres - the fire bird still hits harder (with LO) and has actual secondary stab. It also has a better set of resists and better bulk, so yeah.

On to this:

Mega Pidgeot fits on almost any team archetype that is built around it as a Mega

Mega Pidgeot fits on any team that is built around it? I think that would be pretty self-explanatory. ANY viable Pokemon will thrive on a team that is built around it. I don't really see how this can be used to say anything about Pidgeot?

This causes a simple concept known as centralization, in which an average user attempts to prepare for a Pokemon via favourable matchup, and, being entirely unable to do so, is then forced to to build cores around solely taking down Mega Pidgeot.

Literally all of teambuilding revolves around building a favorable matchup. Having to prepare for a mon does not mean it is overcentralizing. Some of Mega Pidgeot's answers (Empoleon, Mega Aerodactyl) do more than just check Mega Pidgeot. You have to run checks for Hydreigon, Entei, Mienshao, etc. but those mons are not overcentralizing.

Stop thinking about Mamoswine's Ice Shard being the solution to this tiers problems involving Mega Pidgeot, it's next.

?

 

[Yifeng]

Why is Moltres relevant all of a sudden?

 

[DMT]

Reasons I like Mega Pidgeot:

1) it is easy to throw on a team because of power + reliable recovery + momentum + potential stallbreaking capabilities + potential hazard remover
2) speed tier is prime ace
3) its checks are fairly easy to prepare for
4) it gives an opportunity to use those niche pokemon like Rhyperior or Bronzong that you wouldn't typically use otherwise

Reasons I don't like Mega Pidgeot:

1) 30% confusion means you can't setup on it reliably and is lame in general
2) checking it involves using shitty pokemon like Blissey or Empoleon that give opponent momentum
3) forces UU to be even more bulky and stally than it already is and that's no good
4) when I think of another reason it'll go here

I know you were all waiting to hear my opinion on the matter so there it is. It is less of an issue than Victini was just because of the fact that you have to deal with this 30% confusion buffoonery, as opposed to just a strong attack.

Solution is either ban it or modify game mechanics to remove 30% confusion chance.

 

[Yifeng]

dmt you forgot about own tempo lickilicky

 

[Choice Banned]

Reasons I like Mega Pidgeot:

1) it is easy to throw on a team because of power + reliable recovery + momentum + potential stallbreaking capabilities + potential hazard remover
2) speed tier is prime ace
3) its checks are fairly easy to prepare for
4) it gives an opportunity to use those niche pokemon like Rhyperior or Bronzong that you wouldn't typically use otherwise

Reasons I don't like Mega Pidgeot:

1) 30% confusion means you can't setup on it reliably and is lame in general
2) checking it involves using shitty pokemon like Blissey or Empoleon that give opponent momentum
3) forces UU to be even more bulky and stally than it already is and that's no good
4) when I think of another reason it'll go here

I know you were all waiting to hear my opinion on the matter so there it is. It is less of an issue than Victini was just because of the fact that you have to deal with this 30% confusion buffoonery, as opposed to just a strong attack.

Solution is either ban it or modify game mechanics to remove 30% confusion chance.

Outside of Sleep Clause/the Mega Rayquaza mod, Smogon doesn't modify game mechanics. If Hurricane's confusion chance makes Pidgeot broken, ban Pidgeot.

 

[newfren]

Outside of Sleep Clause/the Mega Rayquaza mod, Smogon doesn't modify game mechanics. If Hurricane's confusion chance makes Pidgeot broken, ban Pidgeot.

Neither of those are actually modifications to the game mechanics - the actual clauses are that if you sleep 2 things on your opponent's team or mega evolve rayquaza then you automatically lose. They are choices you make that cause you to lose, as opposed to confusing an opponent's pokemon with hurricane, which is random.

 

[Nightingales]

I thought it just was stopped from doing it in the first place?

 

[newfren]

I thought it just was stopped from doing it in the first place?

That's the way it works on the sim, presumably for convenience. In Wi-Fi battles it's just a loss.

 

[Nightingales]

Oh, alright.

 

[Wanka]

I honestly think Slate. hit it right on the head. There are a lot of aspects of pidgeot that make it seem honestly not as bad as people cut it out to be. It's just the no guard + hurricane combo combined with enough speed to outspeed a major portion of the metagame that is really killer.

I'm honestly kind of fed up with the centralization argument because it is a load of doggy doo doo. You do not absolutely NEED a resist to the bird, we have a variety of common fat mons that you will almost always see on balance teams between P2, cresselia, snorlax, Mamphy, and empoleon. there is no way in hell you are going to see a balance team without at least one of those mons on it. People have also gotten creative with it and have been using AV slowking as a way to check it and isn't bad by any means.

The issue is however, while we do have a nice core of common balance mons, Pidgeot just simply does not care and has the tools to get past mons like P2, snorlax, cresselia, and even empoleon with the confusion. Pidgeot can simply just blow right through these mons and make them not look like checks at all.

On the other side however, these mons will a good chunk of the time, threaten the burd out with paralysis or multiple scalds to the face. When these situations occur it can make pidgeot look small, but when that 1/3 chance hits you and you lose your cresselia or your porygon, you are almost doomed for the rest of the battle which is extremely infuriating for a player to face and why we are where we are with pidgeot today because it can simply just single handedly take over a game with that no guard hurricane.

A mons ability to fit on multiple play styles should not be an argument on whether its broken or not, that is just silly. With that logic, mega aero would be broken and really any S rank mon would be broken so I don't even know why that is a discussion.

I'm still on the fence with pidgeot because the team I currently have been using solely relies on P2 to wall it and I have been doing just fine against it. However I have seen instances where it just blows through a porygon or any other potential check which is making me think otherwise.

 

[Cheryl.]

Honestly, i just dont like 100 ACCURACY 110 POWER MOVES COMING OFF A 135 SPECIAL ATTACK STAT THAT HAS THE SAME CHANCE TO CONFUSE YOU LIKE HOW SCALD BURNS YOU. AND GOOD SPEED TO BOOT. all in all, fuck mega bird jesus

 

[sniperr]

I'm noticing most teams have a answer for pidgeot now. I cant stand the amount of constriction it puts on teambuilding right now. even so, I'm deciding to use him for now to see if the meta can really adapt to tolerating this monster to pretty much finalize my opinion.

 

[nv]

My thoughts on Mega Pidge are simple: I always think of it when I am teambuilding and sadly whenever I think of something that can take its hits, I have to hope to god it can fight through confusion or be able to have recovery. And therein lies the problem as most of MPidge's checks lack a reliable way of recovery as MAmph, Lax, Empoleon, and others. The former two rely on RestTalk if they wanna check it ffs, :/ On the other hand, MPidgeot has little bulk and a Stealth Rock weakness meaning it can switch in limited times although Roost helps mitigate that. I do believe in a Mega Pidgeot suspect test, but right now I am not banning or keeping because both options seems a bit meh imo so I feel this suspect is rightfully being done lol. (I kind of want to go with the opinion of banning MPidge on the suspect ladder to see how the meta is without it).

 

[Patrick1088]

Wow all these long posts!

I have been running scarf Rotom-H and Lanturn on my DH team and havent had too many issues with pidge. Pidge definitely doeant take a lot of skill to use and promotes mindless hurricane spam. Confusion hax is annoying, but 30% chance is prevalent. Im more pro ban at this point since it doesnt promote smart playing moreso than its 100% impossible to counter. It was said before that Pidge does one job with slight variatiation in moveset which is completely different than Victinibwith its multiple sets and coverage moves. I do plan on keeping my mind open with this test since Pidge can easily go either way.

 

[zben]

i think the confuse-hax is what makes pidgeot a top UU mon but not a broken mon , in fact whithout that 30% chance of confusion , Mpidgeot is just a frail pokemon weak to stealth rock which is easily manageable by more than 15 mons (in just the UU tiers) (Snorlax,Goodra,Mamph,Maeroo,umbreon,Florges,Vapoeron,Empoleon,slowking,Milotic,P2,Cress,Bliss,...).

So (5/6) of the match (approximately 0.3*0.5=0.15 chance to hit itself) the match your opponent is using a mon that is easily manageable, is it really a so good benefit?
So in fact, if the hax happens when "your counter can just get 2 hits" ( sorry but it's not always this situation ) , OK it's like a crit , he has luck ( But When your oppenent have a crit, your dont /forfeit, you continue to play )
( a crit 6,25% , pidgeot hax : 0.3*0.5*Probabilty("your counter can just get 2 hits"))

But Pokemon is not a easy game where every problem has an easy solution, you have to well play and avoid this situation ( "your counter can just get 2 hits").

MPidgeot is a huge threat but just (1/6) of the match, the rest of the time , piss on and weaken that bird.

 

[Lilligant for OU]

What some people fail to understand is that this isn't like Suicune or Salamence where you just make a few Pokemon have a super effective move.

This isn't like Hydreigon where we can have a faster fighting type or a bulkier one such as Mienshao and Machamp respectively. As a matter of fact we don't even need those

We're talking about a Pokemon with the ability to do severe damage to many Pokemon in the tier, as well as have the potential confusion. The existence of Mega Pidgeot constricts the teambuilding so much, you need at least two checks because Pidgeot will likely eviscerate one of them.

The Substitute + Work Up set makes it even more EbolAIDS, since all but one of Mega Pidgeot's checks are slow AF (Mega Aero I suppose) and it allows it to set up.

 

[Ducem]

Geezus Christo have I seen some shit. I'm sorry that I don't have the replays for proof, but I swear what I'm about to say is 100% not true. So I was bored on Showdown one day when I decided; "hm, well this mega pidgeot thing is raising a bit controversy, I want to play around with it a bit." Now, I don't remember how it got to this point, but 5 minutes later I went on a freshly made alt with only mega pidgeot on the team. I then searched for a battle and found a fellow low tier Johnny to test the power of mega pidgeot. Long story short, I swept the team easy with it. I was gonna call this experiment off then and there, but then I thought "well, that player was just kind of trash, as he allowed me to set up a work up until I was +5, let's give it another few goes". So I battled around 5 more times. Even a few decent teams that didn't reek of low ladder. I won a good chunk of them (maybe 2-3 times) with, again, only mega pidgeot. Now, don't get me wrong, I know this isn't the best evidence as it was low ladder and the plays my opponents made were downright horrible at times (And hell, I don't even have the replays to back myself up). But I was able to sweep teams with only mega pidgeot, even beating usual counters (mega aggron for instance, as I didn't pack heat wave) with hurricanes now infamous confusion chance. I'd say that from the data I've collected, mega bird is pretty broken if it has a chance to get by opposing teams with as little trouble as I had. Work up demolishes stall unless you have a phaser, hurricane is always a bitch to face, and it's not like it has bad bulk, expect it to eat a few hits before going down unless they're stab or super effective. (Holy shite, sorry that I only added to the long post, not to mention this became rambly fast).

 

[YABO]

Ducem, That example literally has zero relevance. You can do the same thing with shit like Lucario, Suicune, Mega Aero, etc. Also, you all are overplaying confusion way too much, you don't get confused every time you come in, stop acting like it. Next, running a faster Fighting-type is a perfectly viable way of dealing with Pidge Mienshao OHKO's most of the time from full. Other options like priority, which every offensive team should have, and just general whittle with Stealth Rock and hitting it on the way in. The reason Pidgeot's confuse chance seems "bullshit" is because Pidgeot is the one attacking and you are the one defending. Naturally, when something is attacking more often it is going to get that chance more often simply due to the fact that it has more opportunities. This is the same reason that switching into a Calm Mind war usually makes you lose since you start attacking after your opponent. Pidgeot thrives on passivity. If you decide to Heal Bell as Pidgeot comes in then sorry but you misplayed. Don't give it free switches and it's not a problem. That goes for Offense, Stall, and even Balance. If your team is prepared and you play actively then you will be fine.

 

[Ducem]

Firstly I'm sorry if I implied that confusion was the biggest threat when facing mega pidgeot, because it's obviously not. I'd say it's the strong spamable STAB with good speed + SpA is what sells it. It can be whittled down by rocks, yes. But every team in UU should have one form of hazard removal if they have a weakness to any kind of hazard. That's just common sense. Furthermore, to get mienshao in you're going to have to sack a Pokemon, whether by choice or by a misplay. That's never a very healthy way to take care of a Pokemon (then again, I can't play HO for the life of me, which is where I see most mienshaos, so hush my mouth I suppose). This is also a Pokemon that can take a hit when hazards are down, as I've mentioned before. So it can come in on a few attacks and proceed to force a switch, allowing free momentum, a free turn to set up, or a free attack. my previous post might have been rubbish (cut me some slack, I just woke up), but I can assure you that I still believe mega bird still has reason to go to BL.