Ladder Mix and Mega

[OLD GREGG (im back baby)]

Goodra @ Red Orb / Blue Orb

90/100/70/110/150/80
90/130/90/160/150/80

Dragon / Fire

OR if rain is your thing
OR if you want to shut down Desolate Land mons

Dragon

90/100/70/110/150/80
90/150/70/140/170/80

Notable Moves:


- Aqua Tail / Muddy Water
- Bolt / Beam
- Draco Meteor / Outrage / Dragon Tail
- Earthquake
- Fire Blast / Flamethrower
- Focus Blast / Superpower
- Iron Tail
- Power Whip
- Rock Slide
- Sludge Bomb

Now that's what I call a colorful move pool. Plenty of high power coverage coming off of Goodra's good mixed attacking stats. What I like best is how many hits it can take while firing off powerful attacks. It can basically hit whatever you want it to for super effective damage. Its good so just try it out. Can 1v1 quite a few of the other primal orb users in this meta also, relative to what orb it has. Red Orb has a lot going for it, but Blue Orb has its merits as well.

 

[MaestroDeSWAG]

Goodra @ Red Orb / Blue Orb

90/100/70/110/150/80
90/130/90/160/150/80

Dragon / Fire

OR if rain is your thing

Dragon / Water

90/100/70/110/150/80
90/150/70/140/170/80

Notable Moves:


- Aqua Tail / Muddy Water
- Bolt / Beam
- Draco Meteor / Outrage / Dragon Tail
- Earthquake
- Fire Blast / Flamethrower
- Focus Blast / Superpower
- Iron Tail
- Power Whip
- Rock Slide
- Sludge Bomb

Now that's what I call a colorful move pool. Plenty of high power coverage coming off of Goodra's good mixed attacking stats. What I like best is how many hits it can take while firing off powerful attacks. It can basically hit whatever you want it to for super effective damage. Its good so just try it out. Can 1v1 quite a few of the other primal orb users in this meta also, relative to what orb it has.

I think red orb looks far superior for a couple reasons. First, it improves your subpar defense, second, the stab combo is better, and third, goodras got better SpA than Atk, and it can better abuse the sun w/ special moves anyways. Plus, blue orb doesn't change typing.

 

[Imperator Romanum]

Tagging known council members because I want to know how the voting on Shadow tag is going MaestroDeSWAG xJownage Ghoul King

 

[Lukethehedgehog]

Me too. Also, you forgot Ransei and thdhted

 

[NyneTiNyne]

I think red orb looks far superior for a couple reasons. First, it improves your subpar defense, second, the stab combo is better, and third, goodras got better SpA than Atk, and it can better abuse the sun w/ special moves anyways. Plus, blue orb doesn't change typing.

Also, Red Orb makes Goodra double resistant to Fire moves anyway, so it can still kinda stop some Desolate Land mons who do not have any Ground/Rock/Dragon move like Victini. It can obviously not stop Groudon-P...

 

[Ghoul King]

Tagging known council members because I want to know how the voting on Shadow tag is going MaestroDeSWAG xJownage Ghoul King

Shadow Tag is Banned. (This includes Gengarite)

xJownage has not voted yet, but at most that would make it a 4-1 vote, so it's banned. The reasons to ban it have already been covered, not gonna repeat them here.

Tagging Pikachuun to update the code before it gets implemented on main.

Also, YES VICTORY. Thanks everybody! Look forward to seeing you on the main server!

 

[Ransei]

We already voted, and our vote was to BAN shadow tag.

 

[Pikachuun]

Shadow Tag is Banned. (This includes Gengarite)

xJownage has not voted yet, but at most that would make it a 4-1 vote, so it's banned. The reasons to ban it have already been covered, not gonna repeat them here.

Tagging Pikachuun to update the code before it gets implemented on main.

Also, YES VICTORY. Thanks everybody! Look forward to seeing you on the main server!

I will include this when I make the pull request.

EDIT: Included, updated the main code as well

 

[frogstomperful]

Notable Moves:


- Aqua Tail / Muddy Water
- Bolt / Beam
- Draco Meteor / Outrage / Dragon Tail
- Earthquake
- Fire Blast / Flamethrower
- Focus Blast / Superpower
- Iron Tail
- Power Whip
- Rock Slide
- Sludge Bomb

Now that's what I call a colorful move pool.

And it's what I call terribly annoying to read. Not everyone is blessed with good eyes. Colors in particular can be painful to read; there are good reasons black text is the standard.

 

[Snaquaza]

Shadow Tag is Banned. (This includes Gengarite)

xJownage has not voted yet, but at most that would make it a 4-1 vote, so it's banned. The reasons to ban it have already been covered, not gonna repeat them here.

Tagging Pikachuun to update the code before it gets implemented on main.

Also, YES VICTORY. Thanks everybody! Look forward to seeing you on the main server!

Tagging Slayer95 instead. He has the code already, since I send it to him earlier, so once he's finished with this it should go up.

 

[nu nu X]

Wate a minit so Archeops is usable?

 

[xJownage]

Sorry, i did want stag banned but i am without a computer atm and several other real life events are interfering with this. Still without a computer so making this short and to the point, I am glad shadow tag was banned.

I also would present the idea of a dragonite ban, as it is very overcentralizing and has no counters (on any of its sets).

Also, Archeops is legal and very effective.

 

[nu nu X]

Also, Archeops is legal and very effective.

Oh my.

Oh YES.

 

[Isa Simple]

It isn't on the viability rankings.

I think the viability rankings probably need a large update with this being OMotM and all.

 

[Chopin Alkaninoff]

Why Archeops isn't in viability rankings? Charizardite X Archeops hits almost as hard as Red Orb Victini.

252 Atk Tough Claws (186 Atk) Archeops Head Smash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Sablenite (150 Def) Mew: 229-271 (56.6 - 67%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 Atk Victini (130 Atk) V-create vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Sablenite (150 Def) Mew in Harsh Sunshine: 237-280 (58.6 - 69.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

 

[MaestroDeSWAG]

Sorry, i did want stag banned but i am without a computer atm and several other real life events are interfering with this. Still without a computer so making this short and to the point, I am glad shadow tag was banned.

I also would present the idea of a dragonite ban, as it is very overcentralizing and has no counters (on any of its sets).

Also, Archeops is legal and very effective.

I wouldn't say no set has counters, as a matter of fact, I'd say basically every set has at least checks. Non-superpower sets are destroyed by levitran, and those said sets are walled super hard by poisons in general. And levitating/flying poisons destroy it regardless of the set.

I will concede that it is INCREDIBLY centralizing though. That is just plain fact. And if you don't have a SOLID check (or maybe two) you will get swept. Every time. These checks, however, are not hard to provide/super niche. Crobat is a good answer, and w/ a mega stone, it is a great utility mon. It provides a really fast Defog, has u-turn, super fang, a great defensive typing, etc.. Not to mention, most Dnite run an adamant nature, and at +1 it still is outsped by positive speed Crobat, so even if they started to run Tpunch just for it, they'd still lose unless they catch the switch. Also, any defensive mon that isn't weak to its moves can usually tank one attack and phaze it out, but that's kinda iffy.

I would also like to bring up the possibility that it centralizing the meta somewhat could actually be a good thing. Mix and Mega is one of the most diverse metas I have ever seen, and such metas are prone to be matchup reliant, which sucks.


Tl;dr, Dnite is not uncheckable, and even has counters. It is, however, incredibly centralizing.

Chopin Alkaninoff and Isa Simple, the viability ranking's still a work in progress, but yeah, archeops's pretty awesome and super fun to use. Not actually broken, as you might guess, but VERY good. And fun. :]]]

 

[Shachaawaq]

This looks like an interesting Meta. I grew bored, so I decided to create an organized chart detailing the stat and weight alterations of each stone, with the Ability and Type alterations aswell, if they apply.

Here: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1_vi_pBiGhddxgXhSCql_EmIaF8jZno2VrkT5qB8osAU/edit?usp=sharing

Let me know if anything needs to be added, changed, or removed.

EDIT: Added the Mega Stone / Orb viability ranking in the forms of S, A, B, C, D, LIM (limited), and BAN (banned).

 

[MaestroDeSWAG]

Actually sorry guys, but I'ma double post here to give an example of a great archeops set/ core/ whatever.

So, first of all, when I build a team, I don't like to build around one core, like most people do. I prefer to kinda have two cores, often kinda interwoven, so that in the event that one fails, I still have a reliable wincon. Here's one of my current double-core setups that many of you have already seen between yesterday and today.

Lucario (M) @ Pinsirite
Ability: Justified
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Extreme Speed
- Swords Dance
- Close Combat
- Crunch

Raikou @ Manectite
Ability: Pressure
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Volt Switch
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Shadow Ball

Archeops @ Salamencite
Ability: Defeatist
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Quick Attack
- U-turn
- Return
- Head Smash

Salamencite is an absolutely incredible option for archeops, and especially for this core, as it gives it actually decent 75/115 defense, which really helps for the volt turn side of the core by easing prediction a bit, not to mention, manectite raikou is basically bulky AF on both sides (for an offensive mon). Anyways, so archeops basically is the banded Tflame of the birdspam core composed of itself and luc, providing a secondary wincon in case luc dies or helping to wear down its checks so Lucario can sweep. The wonderful thing about it is how it fulfills both these roles simultaneously and does so w/ flying colors.

Anyways, that's just one example of a really effective set. It's got a ton of other options; sadly 4mss is real.

Btw, venusaurite skarm is best physical wall in meta. (Slowbronite is bulkier, but it's ability isn't very useful at all, and venusaurite is much more efficiently spread out, stats-wise.)

 

[urkerab]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1_vi_pBiGhddxgXhSCql_EmIaF8jZno2VrkT5qB8osAU/edit?usp=sharing

Let me know if anything needs to be added, changed, or removed.

Rather than manually colouring each cell, you should use custom number formatting, otherwise the cells won't filter correctly. In particular, you should:

• Find and remove all the + and ± signs and the " kg" suffixes
  
• Reset all the cell colours in cells E2:J51
• Configure the following custom number format in cells E2:I51
  • [Red]+0;[Blue]0;±0
• Configure the following custom number format in cells J2:J51
  • [Red]+General kg;[Blue]General kg;±0 kg

Then you can use a Filter View to filter and sort the data to your heart's content.

Alternatively my old post tries to summarise the table: http://www.smogon.com/forums/posts/6232219

 

[Isa Simple]

Is anyone else having problems with type changes?
I was too stupid to save the replay but I had a Metagross that had evolved with a Gyaradosite, that was hit super effectively by a Dark Pulse. And yes I'm certain that it had already mega evolved because it OHKOed a levi tran with Earthquake the turn before. So it was just the type change that was a bit iffy.

Also I assumed that Aggronite made you lose your secondary typing, as the old thread says, but the OP says that you gain Steel type, so I tested it. If this new thread intentionally wanted to make it add steel type, that hasn't been implemented yet, and Aggronite makes you lose you secondary typing.
So either the OP or the code is wrong. Tested with a Talonflame.

Other than that the meta is pretty cool.

I watched someone get pretty much 6-0d by a Banettite Curse Lax. With Curse, Rest and Sleep Talk taking priority.

Also I've been testing Trick Room Bronzong and it is pretty cool.
Because Bronzong has a weird speed tier in 33, with Abomasite or Sablenite it lands on 3 base speed. Meaning with 0 investment and a negative nature you hit 9 speed. This doesn't even include the 0 IVs. In fact the next slowest pokemon in Shuckle with 5 base speed and a neutral nature still takes damage from Gyro Ball at 150bp. So Bronzong's Gyro Ball gets maxed power vs literally every pokemon in the game from what I can tell.
So the combination of Trick Room and Gyro Ball is rather cool, especially when you resist all the -ate speeds.
Abomasite gives an extra 40 Atk, so that you are a better tank and deal far more damage, while Sablenite makes you incredibly bulky.

 

[Heroes and Cons]

While the metagame is generally enjoyable, it is entriely ruined by the overcentralizing "-atespeed" strategy. With it being so easy to get ridiculously powerful, boosted - and even STAB - Extremespeeds of the type you want, it's just broken. I move to ban -atespeed from this meta. The worst offender is...:

Pinsirite -> ALWAYS gives STAB, Flying-type moves to any Pokemon; especially dangerous on Extremespeed users. Notably powerful on Swords Dance Lucario (has excellent STAB combo in Fighting/Flying) and Dragon Dance Dragonite (can abuse Multiscale to set up before Mega Evolving, and has huge Attack score).

There are dozens of ways to abuse it, with several viable Extremespeed users and several -ate abilities to choose from. It's jsut too good a combot o be healthy for the metagame, and can often end games after a single boost.

 

[Imperator Romanum]

Nominating Manaphy for S rank

So idk what set Manaphy has right now in the viability rankings, I just know that set isn't S worthy. However, Absolite manaphy is.

With Absolite Manaphy gains 140 special attack and 140 speed, while also gaining a small amount of attack (20). It also gains the ability Magic bounce. I've been trying to check this thing while teambuilding and I have to say, checking this thing and Victini at the same time is near impossible. But its not just stall, Manaphys ability to live boosted Extreme speeds from Dragonite and surviving at roughly 40% is amazing, this allows it to set up on something weak and still live the most powerful priority in the game and then threaten your opponent as there's not a lot outspeeding Manaphy, Absolite gives you the largest speed boost, I believe. Balance fares no better, Manaphy can easily set up on walls with magic bounce and then seriously threaten back with very, very powerful attacks. Unaware clefable can't check it. Blissey has to be running Sablenite and 4/252+ spdef to escape the 2HKO. Only thing I can think of really is a red orb user like Jirach, who counters it bar Shadow ball.
Stall just gets desimated as thry lack an effective way to handle it and its generally just super threathing. If -ate gets restricted we should defintely look into this thing

 

[Chopin Alkaninoff]

I don't see how -atespeed needs a ban. As long as the poke is checkable or counterable, no need to ban it I think. All you need is to bring a Lucario or Dragonite check or something.

 

[Imperator Romanum]

I don't see how -atespeed needs a ban. As long as the poke is checkable or counterable, no need to ban it I think. All you need is to bring a Lucario or Dragonite check or something.

It's pretty darn difficult to do anything when you get hit by 174 base attack Pixilated Extreme speed, I suggest restricting priority + -ate abilities, as that's the problem. I don't want to ban pokemon as of yet, nor do I want to ban -ate as whole as it eliminates multiple mega stones.

 

[OLD GREGG (im back baby)]

There are only two stones that grant a new typing + ate speed. Pinsirite and Altarianite should be restricted, respectively. Giving either of these two stones to any mon with Espeed makes that mon instantly dangerous. For example Gardevoirite would also give Dnite ate speed, but it would be very much less threatening without fairy typing and stab.

Dnite can still abuse salamence stone, but Dnite is sort of rediculous anyway having Multiscale before mevo. Also this restriction would result in Dnite having one common set that might be more manageable.

The only other mon that could abuse stab ate speed if pinsirite and altarianite were restricted would be Togekiss, iirc.

Tl;Dr
Restrict altarianite and pinsirite.