Ladder Mix and Mega

[Shachaawaq]

Sorry to bump, but I just wanted to point out that I saw a user of Mega Gengar just recently. I was hasty and forgot to save the replay, but it was there as a Perish Trapper.

Also, I've found some usability on Metagrossite Excadrill:

Tough Claws Sweeper

Excadrill @ Metagrossite
Ability: Sand Rush (Tough Claws)
Stats: 115.145.80.60.85.128
EVs: 252 Atk / 24 Def / 232 Spe
~ Drill Run
~ Iron Head
~ Swords Dance / Rock Slide
~ Rapid Spin / Rock Slide
Jolly Nature

I know this isn't an official Pokémon Analysis, but I found this set to be quite effective offensively.

Moves

With the ability of Tough Claws in its arsenal, it can throw Drill Runs that are stronger than Earthquake itself with an increased critical hit chance, albeit with slightly lower accuracy; and launch more powerful Iron Heads aswell (and more powerful Rapid Sp- *shot*). Swords Dance is for more power, and Rock Slide is for coverage; and can be used alongside Drill Run for Exca's classic EdgeQuake coverage. Rapid Spin gets rid of entry hazards, and allows it to function as an Offensive Spinner.

Set Details

The Attack EVs are maxed, while the EVs in Speed allow it to outspeed max-speed B.125s, with the rest dumped into Defense to better take priority. Even without Defense investment, it can take a Return from max-attack Jolly Glalitite Weavile before KO'ing with Iron Head. Sand Rush is the chosen ability of choice when in Sandstorm, as it allows it to outspeed and either heavily damage or KO faster, frailer opponents; Mold Breaker can be used otherwise if not running within Sandstorm.

Usage Tips

The set functions as a mid- to late-game sweeping set, as well as an Offensive Spinner set; and since Excadrill can threaten with Tough Claws-boosted Drill Runs and Iron Heads (both STABs), it'll find some opportunities to use Rapid Spin, especially since it is 4x resistant to Stealth Rock and takes no damage from Toxic Spikes. Utilize its primary abilities as much as possible, and only Mega-Evolve when things it can check under Sandstorm (if Sand Rush) are out of the way; then, whale away at bulkier foes with the combination of Tough Claws-boosted Drill Runs and Iron Heads, and fish for crits and flinches.

Team Options

Sandstorm support from Tyranitar or Hippowdon is recommended to help it utilize its primary ability in Sand Rush to help it get through faster, frail threats that it can KO in one blow, or at least weaken it. Cleric and Healing Wish support from the likes of Slowbronite Sylveon, Sablenite Blissey, and Sablenite Clefable can aid in its ability to keep healthy and continue spinning throughout the match. Partners such as Glalitite Weavile and -atespeed Dragonite appreciate the removal of entry hazards, especially Dragonite, as it renders its Multiscale useless due to Stealth Rock.

Other Options

Equipping a Sablenite or Aggronite on it with a bulky spread can help it function as more of a Bulky Spinner, as the further increases in its rather shallow defenses help mesh with its naturally high HP. The use of Stealth Rock in either of the aforementioned sets can work aswell, but on the offensive set, Excadrill appreciates having offensive pressure.

Notable Showcases

Bulk Comes in Handy: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/mixandmega-246164449
Switching from Normal to Mega: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/mixandmega-246159255

 

[MaestroDeSWAG]

I'm sorry, the convo has basically moved past this, it's just taken all day for me to get this up with work and stuff.

I think the real problem is that people aren't properly preparing for it, yet honestly, it's not that hard to do. Latiosite victini hits very hard (not as hard as desolate land, but it grants levitate, which is cool), and resists/is immune to literally all of dragonites normal coverage as well as bar Tpunch which isn't that strong and deals a decent chunk w/ glaciate while lowering speed. Entei/Arcanine (again), scizor is actually a VERY good answer w/ a number of stones, only being weak to Fire Punch (which dragonite lacks room for anyways) and taking at most neutral damage from its coverage and then destroying it w/ bullet punch, however, I will say, truly "countering" any offensive threat w/ an offensive mon is difficult as the opponent will just switch out.

The biggest thing I'd like to remind everyone is that sudden type/ability changes are everywhere, so it's not unlikely that the opponent will have another trick left up there sleeve (ie, red orb, aggronite, or lati@site), which greatly inhibits setup sweepers and offensive teams in general w/ a setup sweeper as a wincon, as these surprise stops completely kill momentum.

 

[Imperator Romanum]

Congratulations On OMOTM!!!!!

Now that the meta have many new users. I would like to post a set I've came up with(personal favorite mon).May come off as a gimmick, but I was able to use him to his advantages and set up/sweep on some mons.

Snorlax @ Banettite
Ability: Thick Fat
Happiness: 0
EVs: 208 HP / 188 Def / 112 SpD - 252 Atk / 144 Def / 112 Spdef
Impish Nature / Adamant Nature
- Curse
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
- Frustration

First! Let's look at it's stats upon mega evolving. 160/160/75/75/130/40. Okay, it may not be much to look at, or to be amazed by. But 160/75/130 is by no means bad(tho base 75Def in a ubers-base tier is not desirable.....not one bit)but when you factor in PRIORITY curse, he can boost both his Attack and Defense. Add in Rest, and he's effectively more difficult to take down. Sleep Talk is also affected by prankster. And doesn't make snorlax completely vulnerable or dead weight. This actually means, when Lax is asleep. He is actually more Deadlier than he is awake! :D Priority sleep talk is awesome, because you still have priority Curse(still boosting Atk&Def) and an STAB priority Move in the form of Frustration(ive tried Facade, but that's not really reliable). Attacking or boosting before the opponent. Base 160 Attack is Tremendous when coupled with 160HP and 130Sdef. Thanks to that, you don't necessary have to invest much if not at all, in Lax's attack(same applies to Health) and focus a bit more on defense. Now the Ev spread. IMHO, Lax in an offensive meta like this, should be bulky all-around. Since it's not outspeeding anything at all. Anyways, 208evs in health is to just help push its bulk a bit more(helps with tanking unSTAB hits). 156evs in Sdef to tank some pretty strong Special attackers(I'll also show in calcs), 188evs in Def to patch it up a bit. And continue to use curse. In fact, once it reaches beyond 2x(not to hard for snorlax)it can potentially, or just flat out overwhelm some top-tier/prominent threats. Such as, Entei, Dnite, Kyurem, Weavile, Noviern(forgot how to spell), Landorus-T(some variants or depending on the set), Red orb Victini etc. and laughs at most CM sweepers. It should avoid Fighting types(obviously) at all cost and absolutely needs Ghost gone. Even special variants. But once it's at 6x, it can comfortable tank some Fighting hits(physically ofc). Time for Calcs!


+1 252+ Atk Pixilate Dragonite Frustration vs. +2 208 HP / 188+ Def Snorlax: 205-243 (39.9 - 47.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO


+1 252+ Atk Dragonite Superpower vs. +2 208 HP / 188+ Def Snorlax: 248-292 (48.3 - 56.9%) -- 89.1% chance to 2HKO just if Dnite choose to run Superpower on Altaranite variant.

252+ Atk Victini V-create vs. +2 208 HP / 188+ Def Snorlax in Harsh Sunshine: 225-265 (43.8 - 51.6%) -- 9.8% chance to 2HKO.

252+ SpA Pixilate Noivern Boomburst vs. 208 HP / 112 SpD Snorlax: 247-292 (48.1 - 56.9%) -- 89.1% chance to 2HKO.


252+ Atk Landorus-T Superpower vs. +2 208 HP / 188+ Def Snorlax: 306-360 (59.6 - 70.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO mewX Lando. Not saying much, but can can rest up and continue to set up. That's if it's not packing SD.
You're probably wondering, why am I calculating +2? Well, that's because snorlax usually force out the pokemon, especially if it can't or isn't hitting it hard enough. With that in mind, it's guaranteed to get curse up first turn. When the opponent relies he/she can't do jack squat to Lax. They'll switch to an appropriate pokemon that can try and overwhelm me. During the switch, I use curse. Then that following turn, I use curse again, now I'm at 2.5x(I wanted to calc 2.5x since most of the time, I'm boosting up to 2.5x or more if the opponents decides not to switch).More coming soon!

EDIT: How does Aggronite Dnite sound? It has Twave, Roost, Dtail, even Iron head for STAB. ParaShuffle anyone? 91/145/120 defensively is good too. ;)

EDIT 2: also, Lax hate taunt (obviously)

I found myself struggling with ghost types while using this, so you might opt for running Salamencite as well :) Fixes the defence problem and also gives you some sp.def

I'm sorry, the convo has basically moved past this, it's just taken all day for me to get this up with work and stuff.

I think the real problem is that people aren't properly preparing for it, yet honestly, it's not that hard to do. Latiosite victini hits very hard (not as hard as desolate land, but it grants levitate, which is cool), and resists/is immune to literally all of dragonites normal coverage as well as bar Tpunch which isn't that strong and deals a decent chunk w/ glaciate while lowering speed. Entei/Arcanine (again), scizor is actually a VERY good answer w/ a number of stones, only being weak to Fire Punch (which dragonite lacks room for anyways) and taking at most neutral damage from its coverage and then destroying it w/ bullet punch, however, I will say, truly "countering" any offensive threat w/ an offensive mon is difficult as the opponent will just switch out.

The biggest thing I'd like to remind everyone is that sudden type/ability changes are everywhere, so it's not unlikely that the opponent will have another trick left up there sleeve (ie, red orb, aggronite, or lati@site), which greatly inhibits setup sweepers and offensive teams in general w/ a setup sweeper as a wincon, as these surprise stops completely kill momentum.

+1 252+ Atk Aerilate Dragonite Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Victini: 333-393 (97.6 - 115.2%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO

+1 252+ Atk Aerilate Dragonite Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Entei: 379-447 (102.1 - 120.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ Atk Aerilate Dragonite Extreme Speed vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Arcanine: 186-219 (48.5 - 57.1%) -- 44.9% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

+1 252+ Atk Aerilate Dragonite Extreme Speed vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Scizor: 189-223 (54.9 - 64.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

0 SpA Dragonite Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Skarmory: 230-272 (68.8 - 81.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Skarmory's not a counter either

 

[Blvdman]

Keldeo with Mewtwo Mega y Megastone cannot be used and gives an error that Keldeo weight is too low but the explaination of weight reduction says...

"Note that this also applies to weight changes between base form and Mega/Primal form, for the sake of consistency where the moves Low Kick, Grass Knot, Heat Crash, and Heavy Slam are concerned. If a Pokémon's weight would end up being zero or lower from a Mega Stone causing a weight reduction, their weight is instead set to 0.1 kg."

So shouldn't that mean Keldeo should still be usable with Mewtwo Mega Y megastone. Please fix... Thanks ^_^

 

[DarkeKnight]

Keldeo with Mewtwo Mega y Megastone cannot be used and gives an error that Keldeo weight is too low but the explaination of weight reduction says...

"Note that this also applies to weight changes between base form and Mega/Primal form, for the sake of consistency where the moves Low Kick, Grass Knot, Heat Crash, and Heavy Slam are concerned. If a Pokémon's weight would end up being zero or lower from a Mega Stone causing a weight reduction, their weight is instead set to 0.1 kg."

So shouldn't that mean Keldeo should still be usable with Mewtwo Mega Y megastone. Please fix... Thanks ^_^

While it should definitely be usable, just want to say that it's probably better off with Alakazite.

 

[Level 51]

Not sure if this has been brought up, but what happens if I attach a Heracronite to Shuckle? Does it just go to 0/1 base Speed (likely) or does it register as -5 (unlikely)?

 

[Clefairy]

You can't use it

"Any Pokemon that ends up below 1, or above 255, in a stat from a given Mega Evolution/Primal Reversion's modifications is barred from using that Mega Stone/Orb. For instance, Shuckle is barred from Sablenite, both because it would raise its Defense/Sp. Defense above 255 and because it would end up with negative Speed."

 

[ryan]

I've been using CurseLax as well, but I've been running it with Slowbronite. Shell Armor is really nice, and the extra 70 Defense is super clutch and makes setting up so easy. Banettite sounds really good too though, I should try it out.

Another less obvious choice I've been using is Mewtwonite-X Mew. I'm running Zen Headbutt / Drain Punch / Swords Dance / Sucker Punch, which has amazing coverage and is absurdly strong with Fighting STAB and 180 Attack. It's a great offensive answer to Sablenite Blissey and in general does a great job of breaking fat teams. Although the metagame is primarily offensive, I have run into a bit of stall (which was easy to break with all of CurseLax, standard Mega Gengar, and this set), but in general you occasionally run into problematic defensive Pokemon on more balanced teams, which Mew almost never struggles with.

Shoutouts as well to Aggronite Volcarona, which becomes Bug / Steel, gets much better defense and Filter to ease setup, and resists Fairy and Ice Extreme Speeds and is neutral to Flying Extreme Speeds. I might try Sablenite on this though, not sure what is best yet. Bug / Steel typing is actually pretty weak because there are a lot of Fire-types and Pokemon with Fire-type coverage, but being weak to Aerilate Extreme Speed is kind of shitty.

Speaking of Extreme Speed, can we ban it? It makes the metagame so much more offensive and is just really dumb to face. It's pretty difficult to prepare for because they carry all kinds of different coverage. Dragonite has coverage for almost if not every Flying or Fairy resist, Entei has Sacred Fire for Steel-types, Arcanine has Close Combat and Flare Blitz for every Steel-type, Lucario has Close Combat for Steel-types, Zygarde while less common has Earthquake for Steel-, Poison-, and Rock-types, etc. This is all not to mention that all of these Pokemon can run the less consistent but still dangerous Glalite for Ice-type Extreme Speed, and they don't even have to have terrible typing for it. You can't even predict which Mega Stone Dragonite will be holding (Pinsirite/Salamencite or Altarianite), which makes it even more difficult to handle (though at least Steel-types resist both Flying and Fairy, Dragonite will have coverage for them). Basically, Extreme Speed centers offense around itself, and offense is naturally superior to balance and stall in this metagame because there are so many insane possibilities for wallbreakers and cleaners, this making the metagame itself centered around Extreme Speed.

 

[SpartanMalice]

Extremespeed in combination with -ate basically makes teambuilding easy for just about anyone. You want a counter for that Mewtwonite X Mew, or Loppunite Landorus-T? Go for Aerilate or Pixilate extremespeed. It doesn't help that main abusers, namely Dragonite, Entei, Dragonite, Arcanine, Dragonite, Lucario, and mainly Dragonite... yes I'm repeating it to show how common and borked this thing is. I like using defensive Dragonite, but any variant of it is ridiculously powerful. It's impossible to run proper balance teams as long as -atespeed is around.

I've been meaning to try Aggronite Volcarona though. It is indeed weak due to all the fire mons around, but I'd like to try out the classic bulky QD set. But again, -atespeed makes this questionable. Basically, extremespeed in itself wouldn't be a problem, but an 1.33x boost makes it stronger than return, and that's without factoring stab into account, which is quite ridiculous. In short, I'd prefer if extremespeed was banned in combination with -ate abilities more so than just flat out banning the move itself, but if people feel this may complicate things then I'm okay for banning it altogether, it wouldn't make that much of a difference.

 

[TheMasterOP]

The alakazite should give a suspect with manaphy why? simply because this object manaphy can sweep most Pokemon that matter how kind grass has access to ice beam or if it is a water type has access to energy ball and also this can be increased special attack with tail glow here an example what makes this object http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/mixandmega-246214316

 

[Darth Manaphy]

The alakazite should give a suspect with manaphy why? simply because this object manaphy can sweep most Pokemon that matter how kind grass has access to ice beam or if it is a water type has access to energy ball and also this can be increased special attack with tail glow here an example what makes this object http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/mixandmega-246214316

Should have sent out Blissey as soon as you sacked Shuckle. That would have saved you a lot of hassle. Also, why are you using Knock Off in a Metagame where most people carry un-knock-off-able Megastones? Night Slash would be the better option for that.

 

[Taiwan Province]

Klinklang for C rank:

Klinklang @ Scizorite
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Shift Gear
- Gear Grind
- Rest
- Sleep Talk

Once successfully setup, can sweep easily after eliminating its checks especially in this hyper offensive meta game. And mono steel type let it resist E-speeder as well.

Example of a sweeping replay (I got pretty lucky though):
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/mixandmega-246236059

And I also got into semifinal in OM room tour with thanks to it.

 

[MegaGallade]

Why isn't Bannetite (aka Prankster) Smeargle banned?

I really don't need to explain it, do I?

 

[acidphoenix]

Why isn't Bannetite (aka Prankster) Smeargle banned?

I really don't need to explain it, do I?

Because it can't survive long enough to Mega evolve and get another turn to take advantage of it.

Yes, you do need to explain how a mon with crap for bulk that cannot hold a focus sash and can't use its support options without surviving a turn is over powered.

 

[thesecondbest]

This isn't AAA. There is an insane power creep with ubers legalized. You have no sash then. However, smash pass is still really stupid and if the council quick bans baton pass chains, which they probably will, I too would like it to be extended to a ban of the move baton pass as well.

 

[Taiwan Province]

Why isn't Bannetite (aka Prankster) Smeargle banned?

I really don't need to explain it, do I?

because we have tons of espeeders?

 

[MegaGallade]

Because it can't survive long enough to Mega evolve and get another turn to take advantage of it.

Yes, you do need to explain how a mon with crap for bulk that cannot hold a focus sash and can't use its support options without surviving a turn is over powered.

because we have tons of espeeders?

Should still be on the viability rankings, at least. Also Protect exists.

 

[MaestroDeSWAG]

This isn't AAA. There is an insane power creep with ubers legalized. You have no sash then. However, smash pass is still really stupid and if the council quick bans baton pass chains, which they probably will, I too would like it to be extended to a ban of the move baton pass as well.

Baton pass shouldn't be all out banned, however, baton pass chains are stupid, so I think the OU version of the baton pass clause should be enacted. Especially w/ magic bounce as prevalent as it is.

Oh and AllJokesAside, I was referring to altarianite. Just as rotom-w counters gyarados, but is destroyed by mega gyarados (w/ EQ), obviously you won't always be able to know if they're running some niche lure set like that. The same is true for every meta. That doesn't necessarily make a set any good. For example, and I know I've made this comparison a lot and it's not super exact, but during the megagross suspect, people were arguing that, since scizor walls it, it could just start running HP Fire. Technically, yes, it could, but that's still a bad
Move for it, despite taking out one specific thing that walls you. Thunderbolt is a terrible example, despite beating Skarm, especially because, just like Tpunch, it doesn't provide very good coverage, but unlike Tpunch, it isn't boosted by DD, so it's SUPER situational. Not to mention, protect is much more useful in this meta, as it allows you to both scout the opponents set, as well as mega evolve safely for slower stuff that use their mega stone to boost speed (think diancie).

 

[Skankovich]

Gourgeist-Super @ Aggronite
Ability: Pickup
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Synthesis
- Will-O-Wisp
- Leech Seed
- Gyro Ball

This set is really really good and counters a large portion of the physical meta. Ghost/Steel is as always a great typing, but here it's supported by great dual status in leech seed and willowisp, and reliable recovery. Deals with a lot of ate users, and deals especially well with the setup ones. There's also neat mindgames in the turn to mega, due to the switches in effectiveness of ground and flying during mega evolution.
You can also use foul play in the last slot but its gyro ball is pretty strong so I prefer it.

Calcs

252+ Atk Landorus-T (Pinsirite) Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Filter Gourgeist-Super: 163-195 (43.5 - 52.1%) -- 14.8% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

+1 252+ Atk Dragonite Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Filter Gourgeist-Super: 162-192 (43.3 - 51.3%) -- 5.9% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery Ez burn

252 Atk Weavile Night Slash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Filter Gourgeist-Super: 87-105 (23.2 - 28%) -- 0% chance to 4HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

cba with any more because what it deals with is kinda obvious

 

[MaestroDeSWAG]

Gourgeist-Super @ Aggronite
Ability: Pickup
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Synthesis
- Will-O-Wisp
- Leech Seed
- Gyro Ball

This set is really really good and counters a large portion of the physical meta. Ghost/Steel is as always a great typing, but here it's supported by great dual status in leech seed and willowisp, and reliable recovery. Deals with a lot of ate users, and deals especially well with the setup ones. There's also neat mindgames in the turn to mega, due to the switches in effectiveness of ground and flying during mega evolution.
You can also use foul play in the last slot but its gyro ball is pretty strong so I prefer it.

Calcs

252+ Atk Landorus-T (Pinsirite) Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Filter Gourgeist-Super: 163-195 (43.5 - 52.1%) -- 14.8% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
+1 252+ Atk Dragonite Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Filter Gourgeist-Super: 162-192 (43.3 - 51.3%) -- 5.9% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery Ez burn

252 Atk Weavile Night Slash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Filter Gourgeist-Super: 87-105 (23.2 - 28%) -- 0% chance to 4HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

cba with any more because what it deals with is kinda obvious

I actually mentioned or at least considered this set a little while back, but I didn't realize it got gyro ball. That helps a lot actually. I think AllJokesAside would find that very interesting too. However, it shouldn't have lefties in the calcs.

On a similar vein, any fire type/steel type w/ WoW can run banettite and burn altarianite Barney before it can do anything. If they have decent bulk at all, a burned dragonite won't be doing too much, even w/ EQ. And in this case, filter helps out a lot w/ ranking it. Anyways, sorry, I just immediately thought of dragonite when I saw gyro ball.

 

[Laxpras]

Gourgeist-Super @ Aggronite
Ability: Pickup
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Synthesis
- Will-O-Wisp
- Leech Seed
- Gyro Ball

This set is really really good and counters a large portion of the physical meta. Ghost/Steel is as always a great typing, but here it's supported by great dual status in leech seed and willowisp, and reliable recovery. Deals with a lot of ate users, and deals especially well with the setup ones. There's also neat mindgames in the turn to mega, due to the switches in effectiveness of ground and flying during mega evolution.
You can also use foul play in the last slot but its gyro ball is pretty strong so I prefer it.

Calcs

252+ Atk Landorus-T (Pinsirite) Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Filter Gourgeist-Super: 163-195 (43.5 - 52.1%) -- 14.8% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
+1 252+ Atk Dragonite Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Filter Gourgeist-Super: 162-192 (43.3 - 51.3%) -- 5.9% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery Ez burn

252 Atk Weavile Night Slash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Filter Gourgeist-Super: 87-105 (23.2 - 28%) -- 0% chance to 4HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

cba with any more because what it deals with is kinda obvious

This, and things like latiasite heatran and moldreaker dragon type additions make stall a very viable and underrated playstyle in M&M. As of now, the threats are very predictable, and a team can be built to wall essentially every threat, and get easy hazards and status with defensive moldbreakers, surprising all of the magic bounce users. Combine that with things like aggronite, slowbronite, sablenite, on roar and whirlwind users, unprepared teams fall.

 

[Talpr0ne]

Another very neat thing about Gourgeist is that it gets Frisk, so it can scout prior to megaevolving.

 

[Imperator Romanum]

I looked into Gourgeist and it's neat and all but it does lack recovery, Sablenite or Jellicent might be better.

Stall is... Okay. I feel like it'll be better after something is done about -ate as you're forced to add an entirely new pokemon just to check one playstyle, which might not sound bad Skarmory is fodder for all the magic bouncers that you see around, all of which are threatening to stall in its entirety. The lack of Leftovers is also huge, which means you can't switch around and makes it reallly easy for the opponent to widdle you. Though I do have some interesting sets I've been using on my team, I'm just going to dump some of them as I disregard them pretty quickly, some of these are from Eviolite goomy.

Togekiss @ Red Orb
Ability: Hustle
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
- Roost
- Heal Bell
- Dazzling Gleam
- Flamethrower

Free City Bravos (Blissey) @ Sablenite
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpD
Bold Nature
- Wish
- Protect
- Shadow Ball
- Stealth Rock

Sexy jesus (Alomomola) @ Slowbronite
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Bold Nature
- Scald
- Toxic
- Wish
- Protect

Arceus @ Life Orb
Ability: Multitype
Happiness: 0
EVs: 160 HP / 252 Atk / 96 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Extreme Speed
- Earthquake
- Swords Dance
- Recover

Scizor @ Blue Orb
Ability: Technician
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Bullet Punch
- Roost
- Pursuit
- Defog

Skarmory @ Venusaurite
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Impish Nature
- Roost
- Whirlwind
- Spikes
- Brave Bird

Snorlax @ Salamencite
Ability: Thick Fat
Happiness: 0
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Frustration
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
- Curse

Hippowdon @ Red Orb
Ability: Sand Stream
Happiness: 0
EVs: 248 HP / 128 Def / 132 SpD
Impish Nature
- Earthquake
- Roost
- Whirlwind
- Toxic

Umbreon @ Red Orb
Ability: Synchronize
Happiness: 0
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
- Wish
- Protect
- Foul Play
- Heal Bell

These were some of the sets, I'm going to return to the idea of stall but as of now I'm playing offence until Dnite is banned :) Enjoy

 

[xJownage]

I'm saying right now that Dnite limits the meta to an unhealthy extreme that makes things very difficult on teambuilders and restricts the freedom this metagame should have. Checks on offense are VERY LIMITED, and those checks ONLY BEAT ONE SET in most cases. Fire type espeeders or levitators only check the Pixilate set, while a completely different set of offensive checks is required for the aerilate set. There is zero opportunity cost to using it, it is nearly impossible to stop from setting up, and has literally no switch-ins. Good players can get up a substitute as well, allowing it to wear down its checks, almost zero of which have reliable recovery. It does have checks to each of its sets, but the number of things that can beat it at +1 is just awful, and you basically need 2 slots dedicated to dragonite checks in this metagame just to have a chance to be good. This thing needs to go.

 

[MaestroDeSWAG]

I'm saying right now that Dnite limits the meta to an unhealthy extreme that makes things very difficult on teambuilders and restricts the freedom this metagame should have. Checks on offense are VERY LIMITED, and those checks ONLY BEAT ONE SET in most cases. Fire type espeeders or levitators only check the Pixilate set, while a completely different set of offensive checks is required for the aerilate set. There is zero opportunity cost to using it, it is nearly impossible to stop from setting up, and has literally no switch-ins. Good players can get up a substitute as well, allowing it to wear down its checks, almost zero of which have reliable recovery. It does have checks to each of its sets, but the number of things that can beat it at +1 is just awful, and you basically need 2 slots dedicated to dragonite checks in this metagame just to have a chance to be good. This thing needs to go.

This is true, but they don't only fulfil that one role. When a specific threat forces you to run VERY specific things to beat it that don't work on many teams/only do one thing and nothing else, that's when it becomes the kind of over-centralizing we're talking about here. Like greninja forcing you to run P2, and stuff like that. Dragonite checks basically have a loose formula that you have to follow, but with the ability to essentially build a non to fill a role on your team, it's not hard to come up w/ a Dnite check. And, while hardly anything can check both Pinsirite and altarianite, that's basically all you have to prepare for. And again, it's not that hard to scout w/ protect.