Seismitoad [QC 1/3]

-kal-

hi guys
is a Contributor Alumnus

QC: 49
GP:

[OVERVIEW]
  • Decent all around bulk that makes it a reliable Stealth Rocker in the setter
  • Great defensive typing that lets it take on Steel- and Rock-types such as Mega Steelix and Rhyperior
  • Great ability in Water Absorb that grants it an immunity to Water-type attacks and somewhat makes up for its lack of reliable recovery
  • Has great STAB combination which when used in tandem with Sludge Wave, lets it have amazing coverage and makes it one of the few bulky Water-types in the tier that can threaten Tangrowth, a very huge threat in the current metagame
  • 4X weakness to the pertinent Grass-types in the tier which includes Virizion and Amoonguss
  • Limited offensive movepool
  • Its offensive stats are mediocre at best
  • No form of recovery which makes it easy to wear down

[SET]
name: Offensive
move 1: Stealth Rock
move 2: Scald / Hydro Pump
move 3: Earth Power
move 4: Sludge Wave
item: Leftovers / Life Orb
ability: Water Absorb
nature: Modest
evs: 248 HP / 252 SpA / 8 SpD

[SET COMMENTS]
Moves
========
  • Stealth Rock provides a form of a utility move to wear down the opposing team
  • Scald is used as a STAB option that has a nice chance to burn its opponents
  • Hydro Pump is an alternative for extra power but has a chance to miss
  • Earth Power is used as another STAB move to smash Steel- and Electric-types such as Mega Steelix and Jolteon
  • Sludge Wave has great coverage with Seismitoad's dual STABs, hitting Grass- and Fairy-types such as Tangrowth, Virizion, and Aromatisse hard
  • If Hydro Pump is ran, players have the option to use Sludge Bomb as opposed to Sludge Wave to gain any lucky poison chances on Alomomola or Jellicent that likes to switch into Swismitoad
  • Icy Wind is an option to hit Flygon extremely hard

Set Details
========
  • Maximum Special Attack investment with a Modest nature to maximize Seismitoad's offenses by as much as possible
  • Rest are for bulk
  • Leftovers provide passive recovery, allowing Seismitoad to check Emboar and Durant more efficiently
  • Life Orb is an option if Hydro Pump is used to amplify Seismitoad's damage output and if players would like to achieve the ability to 2HKO Virizion and Aromatisse with Sludge Wave. Life Orb is recommended mainly for Seismitoads that run speed investment as the recoil from it will usually reduce Seismitoad's longevity
  • Water Absorb is the best ability to use as it lets Seismitoad have an immunity to Water-type moves
  • 136 Speed EVs for outspeeding Modest Clawitzer
  • 232 Speed Evs can be used for Base 71 neutral natured pokemon and below such as Adamant Tyrantrum, Modest Samurott, and Adamant Emboar as well as Jolly Scrafty
  • Maximum speed investment with a Timid nature can be used to outspeed Modest Rotom-C, Adamant Hitmonlee, Adamant Gallade, Jolly Emboar, Jolly Tyrantrum, and Timid Samurott

Usage Tips
========
  • Fits well on offensive or bulky offensive teams for players looking for an offensive Stealth Rock setter while having the bulk to blanket check many threats in RU such as Rhyperior, Durant, and Mega Steelix
  • Players should pivot Seismitoad into Water-type attacks to gain health and a free switch
  • If running Scald, players should keep clicking it to spread Burns on the opposing team
  • Grass-types love to switch in to Seismitoad so try to predict them by clicking Sludge Wave to heavily damage them
  • Set up Stealth Rock on Pokemon that cannot do much against it such as Delphox locked into Fire Blast, Tyrantrum locked into Head Smash, or Mega Steelix

Team Options
========
  • Fire-types such as Delphox and Houndoom have great defensive synergy with Seismitoad. They take on Grass-types with ease while Seismitoad dispatches Ground- and Rock-types
  • Seismitoad struggles with bulky Water-types such as Jellicent and Alomomola so partners to handle them are great. Virizion, Tangrowth, and Jolteon are great examples to take them on and the latter can provide switch momentum with Volt Switch
  • Pokemon that can deter Defog and Rapid Spin users such as Togetic, Flygon, and Hitmonlee make for excellent partners. Braviary and Sneasel can take on Defog users as Braviary can attain a +2 Attack boost with Defiant while Sneasel can easily damage them with its Ice-type STAB move. Meloetta and Sigilyph can outspeed and OHKO Hitmonlee with their STAB Psychic. For a more defensive option, Aromatisse easily handles Hitmonlee and also provides Wish and Aromatherapy support.
  • Durant in particular works well with Seismitoad. It can take on Grass-types and severely weaken Seismitoad's defensive checks and counters such as Tangrowth and Jellicent respectively. Seismitoad in return beats Emboar and Mega Steelix which plagues Durant

[SET]
name: Defensive
move 1: Stealth Rock
move 2: Scald
move 3: Earth Power / Earthquake
move 4: Toxic
item: Leftovers
ability: Water Absorb
nature: Bold / Relaxed
evs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD

[SET COMMENTS]
Moves
========
  • Stealth Rock is a great utility move, wearing down Seismitoad's opponents every time they switch in
  • Scald is used as a STAB move that is used to burn pokemon that attempt to switch into Seismitoad
  • Earth Power smacks Rock- and Poison-types such as Tyrantrum and Qwilfish
  • Earthquake is able to OHKO Delphox after Stealth Rock as well as Jolteon from full
  • Toxic is used to punish Grass-types or walls such as Tangrowth and Jellicent
  • Knock Off can be used in the last slot over Toxic to get rid of the foe's items while ensuring that Substitute + Calm Mind Meloetta cannot freely setup against Seismitoad
Set Details
========
  • The EV spread is used to maximize Seismitoad's bulk which makes it a great defensive Stealth Rock setter
  • Leftovers is crucial for this set as it provides passive recovery which this set absolutely needs
  • Rocky Helmet is an option to punish physical attackers such as Hitmonlee and Emboar but Seismitoad but the recovery provided by Leftovers is too good to pass up most of the time
  • A Bold nature boosts Seismitoad's defenses while a Relaxed nature is an alternative if Earthquake and Knock Off are chosen

Usage Tips
========
  • This set generally works well on balanced or defensive teams
  • Players should pivot Seismitoad into Water-type attacks to gain health and a free switch
  • Seismitoad's switch-in opportunities should be on physical attackers such as Durant, Mega Steelix, Emboar, and Tyrantrum which it can check reliably. From there, either setting up Stealth Rock or spreading Burns with Scald should be its priority
  • Players can try to predict their opponents' bringing in their Water- or Grass-types such as Alomomola and Tangrowth by clicking Toxic in order to wear them down

Team Options
========
  • This set abhors status, so clerics such as Togetic, Aromatisse, and Roselia are much appreciated. Aromatisse is able to provide with Wish support to keep Seismitoad healthy and makes it a more reliable wall
  • Specially defensive Pokemon such as Mega Steelix and Mega Audino benefit from Seismitoad's ability to beat powerful physical attackers such as Emboar and Durant for them while they can take on Rotom-C and Meloetta easily
  • Setup sweepers such as Rock Polish Tyrantrum, Swords Dance Virizion, and Dragon Dance Scrafty benefit from the entry hazard support that Seismitoad has and its ability to weaken the opposing team by spreading Burns or Poison with Scald and Toxic
  • Venomoth in particular works very well with Seismitoad as it appreciate Seismitoad's ability to weaken Fire- and Steel-types that can ease set up for Venomoth. Venomoth is also able to deal with bulky Water-types and Grass-types that greatly annoys Seismitoad
  • Pokemon that can absorb or remove Toxic or Toxic Spikes such as Roselia and Amoonguss for great partners. Roselia can set up its own Spikes and Toxic Spikes that works really well in tandem with Seismitoad's Stealth Rock. The both of them also have great defensive synergy with Seismitoad; they can take on Grass-types such as Tangrowth and Virizion with ease while Seismitoad handles Fire- and Steel-types such as Delphox and Mega Steelix which annoys them

[SET]
name: SubToxic
move 1: Substitute
move 2: Toxic
move 3: Earth Power
move 4: Sludge Wave / Hydro Pump
item: Leftovers
ability: Water Absorb
nature: Timid
evs: 8 HP / 248 SpA / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
Moves
========
  • Substitute allows Seismitoad to block status and also eases prediction
  • Toxic is used to punish Grass-types or walls such as Tangrowth and Alomomola
  • Earth Power to heavily damage Steel- and Electric-types such as Mega Steelix and Jolteon
  • Sludge Wave has great coverage with Seismitoad's dual STABs, hitting Grass- and Fairy-types such as Tangrowth and Aromatisse hard while doing a decent amount to Virizion
  • Hydro Pump can be used over Sludge Wave for a very powerful STAB move that can hit Bronzong and Sigilyph for a decent amount as otherwise the duo can wall Seismitoad

Set Details
========
  • Maximum speed investment with a timid nature ensures that Seismitoad can outspeed Jolly Tyrantrum, Adamant Hitmonlee, and Jolly Emboar
  • 8 HP ensures that Seismitoad can create 4 Substitutes as opposed to 3
  • the rest is placed in special attack for as much damage output as possible
  • Leftovers provide passive recovery to ensure that Seismitoad can stay healthy after making Substitutes
  • Water Absorb is the best ability to use as it lets Seismitoad have an immunity to Water-type moves which can heal it to make it make more Substitutes
  • A spread with 24 HP / 252 SpA / 232 Spe with a Modest nature can be used for more power while still being able to outspeed Jolly Scrafty, Adamant Tyrantrum, and Modest Samurott
  • A spread with 88 HP / 168 SpA / 252 Spe is an option to ensure that Jellicent's Hex will not break Seismitoad's Substitute
  • Alternatively, a spread with 88 HP / 40 Def / 128 SpA / 252 Spe can ensure that Bronzong's Earthquake will not break Seismitoad's Substitute but it will be noticeably weaker
Usage Tips
========
  • Best utilized on offensive teams looking for a way to weaken bulky Water-types and Stall teams to an extent
  • It is essential for players to keep Seismitoad away from status inflictions of any kind as they can hinder its role of setting up Substitutes
  • Switch Seismitoad on bulky Water-types such as Quagsire, Jellicent, and Alomomola and then proceed to Toxic stall them or set up Substitutes
  • Being behind a Substitute can really help Seismitoad in spreading Toxic and predicting its opponents
  • Do not directly switch Seismitoad into Knock Off users as they can remove its only form of passive recovery in Leftovers

Team Options
========
  • For Sludge Wave variants, Spiritomb and Houndoom make good partners as they can pursuit trap Sigilyph and Bronzong, both of whom Seismitoad cannot do much against
  • Pokemon that appreciate Seismitoad's ability to weaken bulky Water-types such as Durant, Tyrantrum, and Mega Glalie are great and the former two can setup and sweep late-game once Seismitoad weakens defensive pokemon
  • Fire-types such as Fletchinder, Mega Camerupt, and Delphox also work well with Seismitoad. They are able to take on Grass-types that can beat Seismitoad while it can weaken bulky Water-types and Rock-types for them
  • Defog and Rapid Spin users from the likes of Flygon and Hitmonlee make for good partners as they can remove Toxic Spikes which Seismitoad simply hates as it can severely wear it down
  • Garbodor and Qwilfish can set up Toxic Spikes and Spikes that aids Seismitoad's job of annoying defensive pokemon and the former can beat Tangrowth for Seismitoad or capitalize by setting up more hazards

[STRATEGY COMMENTS]
Other Options
=============
  • Swift Swim sweeper
  • AV
  • Refresh
  • Protect
  • Grass Knot
  • Sub + Endeavour with Salac Berry

Checks and Counters
===================

**Grass-types moves**: Grass-types such as Tangrowth, Virizion, Trevenant, and Rotom-C resist Seismitoad's dual STAB moves and easily OHKOes it with their attacks. Virizion is able to set up a Swords Dance or Calm Mind on Seismitoad. It should be noted that these Grass-types except Trevenant have to be careful of Sludge Wave as it can 2HKO them. Roselia and Amoonguss, while do not resist Earth Power or Earthquake, can easily live one and KO it with Giga Drain or force it to switch out. The former can set up Spikes and Toxic Spikes for its teams while the latter can put Seismitoad's other teammates to sleep with Spore on any predicted switches. Pokemon that carry Grass-type coverage such as Energy Ball Sigilyph, Grass Knot Delphox, and Samurott can also easily knock out Seismitoad.

**Wallbreakers**: Powerful wallbreakers can easily 2HKO or OHKO any variants of Seismitoad. Choice Specs Meloetta, Life Orb Hitmonlee, Choice Band Gallade, Tyrantrum, and Mega Glalie are premier wallbreakers that can do the aforementioned role with relative ease. Venomoth is able to set up Quiver Dances against Seismitoad or put it to sleep with Sleep Powder and heavily damage it with Bug Buzz which can pass through Seismitoad's Substitute while living a hit from full.

**Residual Damage**: Because Seismitoad lacks a form of reliable recovery, it is very susceptible to status and hazards. Toxic and Burn can easily put Seismitoad on a timer while Stealth Rock, Spikes, and Toxic Spikes can wear it down every time it comes in.
 
Last edited:
cool

don't overstate it as a scald absorber, as while water absorb is super nice for sure, when contrasted to 'mons like growth and sigilyph (that are making more substantial returns off their scald absorption), toad is relatively passive in its approach, or at least in its conventional sr sets. it's a good mention, just don't play it off like it's shredding other bulky waters when jelli is get scared out by a tox at best most times, for instance. being a bulky water capable of immediately threatening growth (well, plausibly, i guess jelli could slot ib, but it shouldn't 9 times of 10) might be a cute point to mention when addressing sludge wave, given specs growth is kinda a 'flavour of the month' and something that could stand to be focused on here.

it might be worthing noting on offensive sr that, while lefties can be run on most any spread to decent effect, life orb is more encouraged on spreads running speed, as the recoil (when contrasted to passive gains in hp) really devalues bulk investments to a degree that you end up gaining more from its use with faster spreads in a game-to-games basis. sludge bomb is /probably/ a safe bet to mention on pump variants, since being able to accrue that chip on momo or jelli is significant to the point of being worth mentions (also makes mantine a little less of a clean-cut counter). some other things i'd give consideration to mentioning, but maybe let other qc give their opinions b.c it could just be me?:
  • max speed timid in details; outpaces modest rotom-c / adamant lee / w.e neutral speed base 80's, + speed emboar / tyrantrum / 'rott (which i find myself running most of the time now, but again, others may not be on that), a reasonable shot w/lo
  • gk / focus blast mentions > ep; ground coverage is a big 'nice, but not 100% necessary' thing for me, so on squads that'd like to see, for instance, opposing waters or spdef normals removed rather than having that immediate ko on qwil and similar poisons, i can realistically find myself opting for this moves
also, i think i'm gonna go ahead and push for the inclusion of sub-tox, since it's pretty tight v.slower teams, and really the only thing that makes it hard to slot is the opportunity cost that arises from running a non-sr set. i'll drop a kinda basic model to go off of, though if you don't feel comfortable doing it, i can totally peer pressure someone else to hit it up separately

[SET]
name: SubTox
move 1: Substitute
move 2: Toxic
move 3: Earth Power
move 4: Sludge Wave / Hydro Pump
item: Leftovers
ability: Water Absorb
nature: Timid
evs: 8 HP / 248 SpA / 252 Spe
(again, i like timid, but we can just go w/that 24 hp / 252 spa / 232 spe spread @ modest as well)

sludge wave disallows growth from using this for free turns (gets a little chip on virizion), pump is just pump and is strong / keeps some flyers / levitaters more honest (sigilyph / zonger being big ones). tomber is nice for pursuing sigi / zong for sludge variants, whereas garbo can grab layers on tangrowth. usually this will pair off fairly well w/your broad strokes physical beaters (ant, tyrantrum, glalie, etc.), just b.c the big draw here is annoying bulky waters. you can run 88 hp evs to avoid having jelli's hex breaking the sub 100% of the time, and dropping another 40 evs in defense from there stops zonger from breaking w/eq, though by that point its a little too much dilution of spa evs for me (it can't even really 3hko relaxed variants w/that little investment iirc).

everything else looks fine, i think?
 

-kal-

hi guys
is a Contributor Alumnus
cool

don't overstate it as a scald absorber, as while water absorb is super nice for sure, when contrasted to 'mons like growth and sigilyph (that are making more substantial returns off their scald absorption), toad is relatively passive in its approach, or at least in its conventional sr sets. it's a good mention, just don't play it off like it's shredding other bulky waters when jelli is get scared out by a tox at best most times, for instance. being a bulky water capable of immediately threatening growth (well, plausibly, i guess jelli could slot ib, but it shouldn't 9 times of 10) might be a cute point to mention when addressing sludge wave, given specs growth is kinda a 'flavour of the month' and something that could stand to be focused on here.

it might be worthing noting on offensive sr that, while lefties can be run on most any spread to decent effect, life orb is more encouraged on spreads running speed, as the recoil (when contrasted to passive gains in hp) really devalues bulk investments to a degree that you end up gaining more from its use with faster spreads in a game-to-games basis. sludge bomb is /probably/ a safe bet to mention on pump variants, since being able to accrue that chip on momo or jelli is significant to the point of being worth mentions (also makes mantine a little less of a clean-cut counter). some other things i'd give consideration to mentioning, but maybe let other qc give their opinions b.c it could just be me?:
  • max speed timid in details; outpaces modest rotom-c / adamant lee / w.e neutral speed base 80's, + speed emboar / tyrantrum / 'rott (which i find myself running most of the time now, but again, others may not be on that), a reasonable shot w/lo
  • gk / focus blast mentions > ep; ground coverage is a big 'nice, but not 100% necessary' thing for me, so on squads that'd like to see, for instance, opposing waters or spdef normals removed rather than having that immediate ko on qwil and similar poisons, i can realistically find myself opting for this moves
also, i think i'm gonna go ahead and push for the inclusion of sub-tox, since it's pretty tight v.slower teams, and really the only thing that makes it hard to slot is the opportunity cost that arises from running a non-sr set. i'll drop a kinda basic model to go off of, though if you don't feel comfortable doing it, i can totally peer pressure someone else to hit it up separately

[SET]
name: SubTox
move 1: Substitute
move 2: Toxic
move 3: Earth Power
move 4: Sludge Wave / Hydro Pump
item: Leftovers
ability: Water Absorb
nature: Timid
evs: 8 HP / 248 SpA / 252 Spe
(again, i like timid, but we can just go w/that 24 hp / 252 spa / 232 spe spread @ modest as well)

sludge wave disallows growth from using this for free turns (gets a little chip on virizion), pump is just pump and is strong / keeps some flyers / levitaters more honest (sigilyph / zonger being big ones). tomber is nice for pursuing sigi / zong for sludge variants, whereas garbo can grab layers on tangrowth. usually this will pair off fairly well w/your broad strokes physical beaters (ant, tyrantrum, glalie, etc.), just b.c the big draw here is annoying bulky waters. you can run 88 hp evs to avoid having jelli's hex breaking the sub 100% of the time, and dropping another 40 evs in defense from there stops zonger from breaking w/eq, though by that point its a little too much dilution of spa evs for me (it can't even really 3hko relaxed variants w/that little investment iirc).

everything else looks fine, i think?
done
 

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