Skymin and archeops seem too good for this tier, honestly. The speed and power of both is beyond the rest of the tier, including unbans. Genesect loses choice items, blaziken loses speed boost, aegislash loses stance change, and skymin stays at above ou speed and solid spa while archeops goes from zero to hero.
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MonsJustMons
- Thread starter Beta.
- Start date
After playing for a while, I can say that Haxorus is one of the poke that performs really well so far. 147 Attack (higher than Archeops), pure Dragon typing, which is better than Dragonite or Salamence, passable bulk, and most importantly, access to Dragon Dance, making it hard to revenge. Good coverage too.
There is also Shift Gear Genesect, who resist almost all kinds of priority and has 120 in both offenses, making it unpredictable. Shift Gear means it's nearly unrevengable unless you take a hit.
I wouldn't say Archeops is broken. Stuff like Keldeo or Latios are almost as fast and as unwallable because of access to Secret Sword or Psyshock and having high Special Attack. Archeops is also frail and weak to three types of priority (Ice Shard, Bullet Punch, Aqua Jet). Also 110 Speed is good, but there are plenty of faster pokes that can revenge it. For now I say Archeops is good but not that broken I think. I've faced some Archeops (I didn't use Archeops myself) and they are definitely beatable.
As for Skymin, I am on fence about this. With 127 Speed, it's faster than the rest of the tier, making it hard to revenge. It's bulk is also pretty good (100/75/75 is just slightly lower than Azumarill's 100/80/80). Maybe we should wait and see if it's broken or not.
There is also Shift Gear Genesect, who resist almost all kinds of priority and has 120 in both offenses, making it unpredictable. Shift Gear means it's nearly unrevengable unless you take a hit.
I wouldn't say Archeops is broken. Stuff like Keldeo or Latios are almost as fast and as unwallable because of access to Secret Sword or Psyshock and having high Special Attack. Archeops is also frail and weak to three types of priority (Ice Shard, Bullet Punch, Aqua Jet). Also 110 Speed is good, but there are plenty of faster pokes that can revenge it. For now I say Archeops is good but not that broken I think. I've faced some Archeops (I didn't use Archeops myself) and they are definitely beatable.
As for Skymin, I am on fence about this. With 127 Speed, it's faster than the rest of the tier, making it hard to revenge. It's bulk is also pretty good (100/75/75 is just slightly lower than Azumarill's 100/80/80). Maybe we should wait and see if it's broken or not.
No abilities = Guts is gone = all physical attackers that aren't Fire-type are in jeopardy. Will-O-Wisp becomes an almost guaranteed crippling device. Scald may somehow become even more omnipresent than it already is on Water-type special attackers because there's essentially no reason to not run it unless they don't have it ... and how many don't have it? Uh ...
In fact, all three of the main starter types had ability immunities and now all of those are gone. Electric immunity for non-Ground's is gone also. Levitate being gone means Ground immunity to non-Flyers is gone. If you want an immunity to a type, you have to be Normal, Ghost, Ground, Flying, Dark, Steel, or Fairy. A ton of mons that previously had an immunity to something now no longer do.
All the power-increasing abilities are gone too. Guts, Toxic Boost, Flare Boost, Adaptability, Pure Power and Huge Power, Technician, and all the others ... a lot of mons that depend on any of these are going to take big hits to their viability.
In fact, all three of the main starter types had ability immunities and now all of those are gone. Electric immunity for non-Ground's is gone also. Levitate being gone means Ground immunity to non-Flyers is gone. If you want an immunity to a type, you have to be Normal, Ghost, Ground, Flying, Dark, Steel, or Fairy. A ton of mons that previously had an immunity to something now no longer do.
All the power-increasing abilities are gone too. Guts, Toxic Boost, Flare Boost, Adaptability, Pure Power and Huge Power, Technician, and all the others ... a lot of mons that depend on any of these are going to take big hits to their viability.
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Beta.
Ruff Ruff amirite?
Due to feedback from not only people in the room, but also through various PM's, and even seeing that it is almost impossible to view one battle without him, Archeops will be banned from MJM. With this one mon having two stabs over 100 base power, being able to 2 hit KO practically every mon in the tier, turning the current metagame to an issue of trying to be faster than an archeops.
The Immortal, sorry to do this to you :{
The Immortal, sorry to do this to you :{
Funbot28
Banned deucer.
Thank God Archeops is gone, no more necessity to run BP Scizor :)
On another note. here are some mons that been working well for me so far:
Manaphy
Ability: None
- Tail Glow
- Scald
- Ice Beam
- Energy Ball
Incredibly devastating mon, with Tail Glow it gets to +3 in no time, wrecks stuff into peices with Scald getting nice burns, and Ice Beam and Energy Ball form nice coverage options that go well with water STAB. Best answer for CM Keldeo on my team atm (that thing wrecks havoc).
Genesect
Ability: None
Hasty Nature
- Extreme Speed
- Iron Head
- Blaze Kick
- Shift Gear
Another great setup sweeper in the meta, dealing with annoying ParaFlinch Togekiss, and revenge killing other threats. Normal/Fire/Steel offers nice coverage, and is quite amusing to get the 30% chance of flinch on Iron Head :)
Hoopa-Unbound
Ability: None
- Hyperspace Fury
- Focus Blast
- Psychic
- Gunk Shot
Amazing wallbreaker, with great coverage. It's low speed holds it back, but can destroy most defensive mons now that they don't have recovery with Leftovers.
Shaymin-Sky
Ability: None
Serious Nature
- Seed Flare
- Earth Power
- Air Slash
- Tailwind
Broken af mon coming through Skymin is still incredible in MJM, as it still has amazing Speed and Special Attack. It also has amazing STABs in Seed Flare and Air Slash (that still has a pretty high possibility of flinching). It enjoys a meta where mons can't outspeed it with Choice Scarf, I think it needs a definite looking into...
BetaHousing I can help create some sort of Viability Rankings if you need one. Been playing around and kinda have a general idea of the meta, just PM me :)
On another note. here are some mons that been working well for me so far:
Manaphy
Ability: None
- Tail Glow
- Scald
- Ice Beam
- Energy Ball
Incredibly devastating mon, with Tail Glow it gets to +3 in no time, wrecks stuff into peices with Scald getting nice burns, and Ice Beam and Energy Ball form nice coverage options that go well with water STAB. Best answer for CM Keldeo on my team atm (that thing wrecks havoc).
Genesect
Ability: None
Hasty Nature
- Extreme Speed
- Iron Head
- Blaze Kick
- Shift Gear
Another great setup sweeper in the meta, dealing with annoying ParaFlinch Togekiss, and revenge killing other threats. Normal/Fire/Steel offers nice coverage, and is quite amusing to get the 30% chance of flinch on Iron Head :)
Hoopa-Unbound
Ability: None
- Hyperspace Fury
- Focus Blast
- Psychic
- Gunk Shot
Amazing wallbreaker, with great coverage. It's low speed holds it back, but can destroy most defensive mons now that they don't have recovery with Leftovers.
Shaymin-Sky
Ability: None
Serious Nature
- Seed Flare
- Earth Power
- Air Slash
- Tailwind
BetaHousing I can help create some sort of Viability Rankings if you need one. Been playing around and kinda have a general idea of the meta, just PM me :)
0 in every IV = HP Fighting. So, no. Hidden Power is not supposed to work.
Some of the main things that have stood out to me thus far.
-Overall, Speed boosting sweepers, specifically Dragon Dancers, are a lot less viable. In Standard, Dragonite's 80 Speed is enough that you need something like Deoxys-Attack to outspeed after a Dragon Dance. Here? Aerodactyl is fast enough to outspeed at +1!
-Conversely, Speed is a much more important stat to pay attention to. Big Speed differences can have big payoff -see above, where Aerodactyl can switch in on Dragonite's Dragon Dance and then KO it with Ice Fang- but also you get stuff like Mew's Speed tier is a lot more useful: in Standard most Mew are Physically Defensive, and so will be outsped by base 80 and the like who are specced for Speed, such as a Gyarados whom intends to Dragon Dance sweep but hasn't done it yet. Here Mew outspeeds everything below 100 Speed 100% of the time, unless Speed stat stage manipulation occurs. It's really quite surprising how much of a difference this makes.
-And as a corollary to all that, priority is a big deal. You can't just Scarf up a counter to something like Shaymin-Sky, and it can be hard to find something fast enough to take it out, at all, let alone that fits into your team and doesn't have other, major flaws.
-Bulk is valuable, but bulky choices just aren't as impressive as you're used to. Most things can be 2HKOed by most (viable) things, if not OHKOed. Don't treat Scizor like it's going to switch in on an attack, Swords Dance whiling absorbing another blow, and Bullet Punch sweep. I'm not going to say stall is unviable -I haven't tried or seen anyone else try it- but I will say I dropped Skarmory from my team because I got tired of it being 2HKOed by Physical attacks.
-Tying into the above, counters are really hard to get a hold of, in the sense of Pokemon that can actively switch into an attack and proceed to wipe the floor with the thing they switched in on. Checks aren't so hard, but true counters are severely hampered. The next point exacerbates this further, by dramatically expanding the realistic coverage of several Pokemon.
-Having mixed attacking stats and a halfway decent movepool is a lot more impressive than in Standard. Tornadus, in particular, combines this with an obnoxious Speed tier. It hardly misses Prankster!
A nifty meta thus far, much more so than I'd thought, and even the ways in which it's a little flat or a little simple are interesting. Before I'd played, I'd been guessing Dragon Dancers would be more viable, not less.
-Overall, Speed boosting sweepers, specifically Dragon Dancers, are a lot less viable. In Standard, Dragonite's 80 Speed is enough that you need something like Deoxys-Attack to outspeed after a Dragon Dance. Here? Aerodactyl is fast enough to outspeed at +1!
-Conversely, Speed is a much more important stat to pay attention to. Big Speed differences can have big payoff -see above, where Aerodactyl can switch in on Dragonite's Dragon Dance and then KO it with Ice Fang- but also you get stuff like Mew's Speed tier is a lot more useful: in Standard most Mew are Physically Defensive, and so will be outsped by base 80 and the like who are specced for Speed, such as a Gyarados whom intends to Dragon Dance sweep but hasn't done it yet. Here Mew outspeeds everything below 100 Speed 100% of the time, unless Speed stat stage manipulation occurs. It's really quite surprising how much of a difference this makes.
-And as a corollary to all that, priority is a big deal. You can't just Scarf up a counter to something like Shaymin-Sky, and it can be hard to find something fast enough to take it out, at all, let alone that fits into your team and doesn't have other, major flaws.
-Bulk is valuable, but bulky choices just aren't as impressive as you're used to. Most things can be 2HKOed by most (viable) things, if not OHKOed. Don't treat Scizor like it's going to switch in on an attack, Swords Dance whiling absorbing another blow, and Bullet Punch sweep. I'm not going to say stall is unviable -I haven't tried or seen anyone else try it- but I will say I dropped Skarmory from my team because I got tired of it being 2HKOed by Physical attacks.
-Tying into the above, counters are really hard to get a hold of, in the sense of Pokemon that can actively switch into an attack and proceed to wipe the floor with the thing they switched in on. Checks aren't so hard, but true counters are severely hampered. The next point exacerbates this further, by dramatically expanding the realistic coverage of several Pokemon.
-Having mixed attacking stats and a halfway decent movepool is a lot more impressive than in Standard. Tornadus, in particular, combines this with an obnoxious Speed tier. It hardly misses Prankster!
A nifty meta thus far, much more so than I'd thought, and even the ways in which it's a little flat or a little simple are interesting. Before I'd played, I'd been guessing Dragon Dancers would be more viable, not less.
Some stuff I've tried that has increased or decreased in viability a lot solely due to the lack of EVs and IVs.
Increased viability:
- Mixed walls. Stuff like Mew previously couldn't afford to run bulk in both sides, but now it can do that while retaining its great speed tier. Something that I'm surprised hasn't been brought up is Lickilicky, which is very versatile, and can basically come in on something that lacks enough power and do whatever it wants to the switch-in.
- Mixed attackers. Not having to split EVs, and the general reduction of bulk means that being able to hit on both sides is very valuable.
- Mons with a balanced stat spread. Raikou is perhaps the biggest example of this, as it can hit decently hard, outspeeds the majority of the metagame, and has very decent bulk despite being offensive. Other notable cases include the mons with a 100/100/100/100/100/100 spread, Zapdos, Garchomp, and others.
- Fast frail attackers. These mons actually have their bulk increased by the lack of stat variation.
Decreased viability:
- Defensive mons with a single low defensive stat that is balanced out by other, much higher, defensive stats. Blissey is the textbook example for this, as it is now 3HKOed by Sneasel's Scratch, a non-STAB neutral hit with 40 BP. As mentioned above, this significantly hurts Skarmory, as 65/140 physical bulk is significantly less than 100/100 in this metagame. Other notable mons that suffer are Alomomola(Less physical bulk than Skarmory, believe it or not), Shuckle(Has only 150 HP now), Ferrothorn(This is balanced by the fact that it has a great defensive typing), and Aegislash.
- Mons that traditionally boosted a low speed stat. As mentioned above, speed boosting works differently than it used to. Instead of a +1 mon being able to outspeed a mon that had up to 24 more than 1.5 times its base speed, it can only outspeed a mon with less than 2 more base speed than 1.5 times the boosted mon's.
- Defensive mons that traditionally only walled threats on one side of the physical-special split. This one should be obvious.
- Mons that traditionally used Hidden Power. The only type available for Hidden Power is Fighting, which some mons appreciate, but a lot more dislike.
Increased viability:
- Mixed walls. Stuff like Mew previously couldn't afford to run bulk in both sides, but now it can do that while retaining its great speed tier. Something that I'm surprised hasn't been brought up is Lickilicky, which is very versatile, and can basically come in on something that lacks enough power and do whatever it wants to the switch-in.
- Mixed attackers. Not having to split EVs, and the general reduction of bulk means that being able to hit on both sides is very valuable.
- Mons with a balanced stat spread. Raikou is perhaps the biggest example of this, as it can hit decently hard, outspeeds the majority of the metagame, and has very decent bulk despite being offensive. Other notable cases include the mons with a 100/100/100/100/100/100 spread, Zapdos, Garchomp, and others.
- Fast frail attackers. These mons actually have their bulk increased by the lack of stat variation.
Decreased viability:
- Defensive mons with a single low defensive stat that is balanced out by other, much higher, defensive stats. Blissey is the textbook example for this, as it is now 3HKOed by Sneasel's Scratch, a non-STAB neutral hit with 40 BP. As mentioned above, this significantly hurts Skarmory, as 65/140 physical bulk is significantly less than 100/100 in this metagame. Other notable mons that suffer are Alomomola(Less physical bulk than Skarmory, believe it or not), Shuckle(Has only 150 HP now), Ferrothorn(This is balanced by the fact that it has a great defensive typing), and Aegislash.
- Mons that traditionally boosted a low speed stat. As mentioned above, speed boosting works differently than it used to. Instead of a +1 mon being able to outspeed a mon that had up to 24 more than 1.5 times its base speed, it can only outspeed a mon with less than 2 more base speed than 1.5 times the boosted mon's.
- Defensive mons that traditionally only walled threats on one side of the physical-special split. This one should be obvious.
- Mons that traditionally used Hidden Power. The only type available for Hidden Power is Fighting, which some mons appreciate, but a lot more dislike.
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EV
Banned deucer.
A standard set I run that has been working great is Defog Latios with Draco/Psyshock/Earthquake. Latios draws in Heatran and even if it sponges the resisted Dragon/Psychic move no problem it faints to Earthquake every time afterward.
0 Atk Latios Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 252-300 (78 - 92.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
I also like Garchomp with Swords Dance/EQ/Dragon Claw/Fire Blast. I haven't seen a lot of Fairies so Dragon is looking pretty good.
0 Atk Latios Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 252-300 (78 - 92.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
I also like Garchomp with Swords Dance/EQ/Dragon Claw/Fire Blast. I haven't seen a lot of Fairies so Dragon is looking pretty good.
Not to derail, but have you actually seen heatran in this meta? O.o
And to add to AA's list:
Eviolite and lefties reliant mons lose a lot of viability, and things like greninja lost a LOT of power when they relied strongly on their ability (yes talonflame too, 80 attack is pretty awful uninvested).
And to add to AA's list:
Eviolite and lefties reliant mons lose a lot of viability, and things like greninja lost a LOT of power when they relied strongly on their ability (yes talonflame too, 80 attack is pretty awful uninvested).
just wanna talk about this beast:
Cresselia
Ability: Levitate
-Thunder Wave
-Magic Coat
-Moonblast
-Moonlight
it's a rad tank, one of very few effective ones in this meta imo. impossible to ohko unboosted afaik and she avoids most 2hkoes, even some stab se ones (gren's dark pulse does ~44, for instance)
speed control is lovely for offense, and cress is a great para spreader despite struggling with some electrics (zapper mostly since it can recover). magic coat mitigates the taunt issue and gives you some recourse against hazard setters, tried lunar dance but I didn't find it very useful. moonblast is weak af offstab but it hits what it needs to imo.
replay where she puts in work throughout: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/monsjustmons-255885810
Cresselia
Ability: Levitate
-Thunder Wave
-Magic Coat
-Moonblast
-Moonlight
it's a rad tank, one of very few effective ones in this meta imo. impossible to ohko unboosted afaik and she avoids most 2hkoes, even some stab se ones (gren's dark pulse does ~44, for instance)
speed control is lovely for offense, and cress is a great para spreader despite struggling with some electrics (zapper mostly since it can recover). magic coat mitigates the taunt issue and gives you some recourse against hazard setters, tried lunar dance but I didn't find it very useful. moonblast is weak af offstab but it hits what it needs to imo.
replay where she puts in work throughout: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/monsjustmons-255885810
EV
Banned deucer.
Why else would I bring it up?
SketchUp
Don't let your memes be dreams
I like this metagame, played around 20 games with a pretty offensive team. I really enjoyed this set:
Genesect
- Shift Gear
- Iron Head
- U-Turn
- Ice Beam
You outspeed the entire metagame after a boost and even without an item or the download boost you hit pretty hard. I use Ice Beam because Garchomp is really common (faced it 7 or 8 times in 20 games) and it also hits pokemon like Skymin and Skarmory harder which is especially useful if you don't manage to get a SG boost.
Fairies are really uncommon, which isn't that weird considering most fairies need their ability to be useful. Dragon Spam is pretty cool and Garchomp stands out because it outspeeds the base 100s, Kyurem-B and Genesect. Just like Eevee General I used a SD set but went for Fire Fang instead of Fire Blast and also played with Outrage for a few games because there are almost no fairies.
Haven't tested Trick Room yet, but it looks pretty interesting and the one game I played against Trick Room I somehow managed to win against a OTR Hoopa-U with Lunar Dance support. Trick Room Hoopa-U laughs against offense and that is the playstyle I faced most often so Hoopa-U is definitely something to try out.
Genesect
- Shift Gear
- Iron Head
- U-Turn
- Ice Beam
You outspeed the entire metagame after a boost and even without an item or the download boost you hit pretty hard. I use Ice Beam because Garchomp is really common (faced it 7 or 8 times in 20 games) and it also hits pokemon like Skymin and Skarmory harder which is especially useful if you don't manage to get a SG boost.
Fairies are really uncommon, which isn't that weird considering most fairies need their ability to be useful. Dragon Spam is pretty cool and Garchomp stands out because it outspeeds the base 100s, Kyurem-B and Genesect. Just like Eevee General I used a SD set but went for Fire Fang instead of Fire Blast and also played with Outrage for a few games because there are almost no fairies.
Haven't tested Trick Room yet, but it looks pretty interesting and the one game I played against Trick Room I somehow managed to win against a OTR Hoopa-U with Lunar Dance support. Trick Room Hoopa-U laughs against offense and that is the playstyle I faced most often so Hoopa-U is definitely something to try out.
Something I meant to mention first time around: Hawlucha is awesome. It's one of several Pokemon that gets a big boost out of Acrobatics being a free 110 BP move, it no longer has to fear Talonflame, its Speed tier of 120 is excellent, and it has solid coverage all around, including access to U-Turn to get it out of bad situations. And Flying/Fighting is just plain a cool typing.
Gengar is kind of disappointing. I ran it for a while, but the meta really just highlights its flaws, with it being unable to tank much of anything, and its Speed tier isn't so good when things like Tornadus are so influential on the meta, which would be fine if it could take even one hit from such. Its lack of Levitate means that it struggles more to get switch-ins, and dropping Will O Wisp on things just isn't a worthwhile endeavor when you can probably 2HKO pretty much anything short of Blissey. Oh, and then Weavile just Pursuit-traps it -Pursuit can remove nearly 90% of Gengar's health without Gengar being in the middle of a switch, so if Gengar isn't 100% fresh Weavile can use Pursuit as a complete free hit on it.
Keldeo is in an odd place. In some ways it's better than ever -it's not possible to be immune to both its STABs, for instance- but in others it's a lot worse off, because Flying firepower is more prominent, a lack of Leftovers makes Sub-Calm Mind sets impractical, and anyway the really scary setup sweepers are things like Genesect and Volcarona.
Aerodactyl is excellent too, just for its Speed tier and its typing -it's one of the only things that can reliably switch in on Tornadus, take a hit, and then outspeed and get the KO. I just wish it got access to U-Turn.
I'm really enjoying Scizor, for its utility as a vaguely bulky U-Turner, and its access to Bullet Punch isn't so bad, though I often find it's not so helpful in practice. (I'm fiddling around with alternatives, see what else is useful) It's one of the only Pokemon I've been able to get real use out of recovery, between entire Pokemon that can't seriously hurt it (eg Celebi) and its general bulk, making it possible to occasionally get one or two Roosts off in a match to stay valid. It could maybe even pull off Defog support, though I haven't tried it personally. I wouldn't try to Swords Dance with it, though, it's not nearly bulky enough or fast enough nor hard enough hitting since it lacks Technician and access to Life Orb/Scizorite, more than offsetting the general fragility of everything.
In general, a really weird phenomenon is that I usually only use 2-3 moves on any given Pokemon in most matches. Not just within a given match, which can be blamed on the shortness of matches, growing out of the frailty of Pokemon, but over several matches I usually have no cause to use the other 1-2 moves. It makes it hard to pin down optimal movesets, because it's not always clear whether that one move I never use is vitally necessary and I just haven't fought the thing(s) I have it for in a while, or if it's something that's really not that useful at all.
Gengar is kind of disappointing. I ran it for a while, but the meta really just highlights its flaws, with it being unable to tank much of anything, and its Speed tier isn't so good when things like Tornadus are so influential on the meta, which would be fine if it could take even one hit from such. Its lack of Levitate means that it struggles more to get switch-ins, and dropping Will O Wisp on things just isn't a worthwhile endeavor when you can probably 2HKO pretty much anything short of Blissey. Oh, and then Weavile just Pursuit-traps it -Pursuit can remove nearly 90% of Gengar's health without Gengar being in the middle of a switch, so if Gengar isn't 100% fresh Weavile can use Pursuit as a complete free hit on it.
Keldeo is in an odd place. In some ways it's better than ever -it's not possible to be immune to both its STABs, for instance- but in others it's a lot worse off, because Flying firepower is more prominent, a lack of Leftovers makes Sub-Calm Mind sets impractical, and anyway the really scary setup sweepers are things like Genesect and Volcarona.
Aerodactyl is excellent too, just for its Speed tier and its typing -it's one of the only things that can reliably switch in on Tornadus, take a hit, and then outspeed and get the KO. I just wish it got access to U-Turn.
I'm really enjoying Scizor, for its utility as a vaguely bulky U-Turner, and its access to Bullet Punch isn't so bad, though I often find it's not so helpful in practice. (I'm fiddling around with alternatives, see what else is useful) It's one of the only Pokemon I've been able to get real use out of recovery, between entire Pokemon that can't seriously hurt it (eg Celebi) and its general bulk, making it possible to occasionally get one or two Roosts off in a match to stay valid. It could maybe even pull off Defog support, though I haven't tried it personally. I wouldn't try to Swords Dance with it, though, it's not nearly bulky enough or fast enough nor hard enough hitting since it lacks Technician and access to Life Orb/Scizorite, more than offsetting the general fragility of everything.
In general, a really weird phenomenon is that I usually only use 2-3 moves on any given Pokemon in most matches. Not just within a given match, which can be blamed on the shortness of matches, growing out of the frailty of Pokemon, but over several matches I usually have no cause to use the other 1-2 moves. It makes it hard to pin down optimal movesets, because it's not always clear whether that one move I never use is vitally necessary and I just haven't fought the thing(s) I have it for in a while, or if it's something that's really not that useful at all.
I've been having quite a lot of success with Jolteon in the matches I have played, with it often carrying the team as it has great power and speed, Volt Switch to gain momentum and Thunder Wave to foil set up sweepers as well as slowing down other threatening Pokemon if it can't kill them such as Skymin, but it definitely misses HP Ice and Ground-Types such as Garchomp (and Gliscor for some reason) being common make Volt Switch harder to use. It also provides a handy flying resist where Acrobatics is common, despite the fact that low bulk means it still takes a lot of damage and can't switch in many times, and can be picked off by priority if its health gets too low. All in all, this makes Jolteon a very threatening Pokemon in this meta (in my opinion at least), justifying many of the Ground-types brought by most teams.
Also, I have seen a fair bit of Diancie in this meta and I have no idea why. Genesect's Iron Head is common, as is Keldeo's Hydro Pump and Garchomp's Earthquake. Sure, it may be good for taking flying moves, but Acrobatics users are either fast enough to U-Turn, or just hard switch to something like one of the Pokemon I mentioned to remove Diancie before proceeding from where they left off, so it often just acts as dead weight, as it either dies or something has to (likely) take a fair bit of damage from a STAB move aimed at Diancie, which in turn makes Diancie's team mates easier to defeat with priority or Acrobatics.
Also, I have seen a fair bit of Diancie in this meta and I have no idea why. Genesect's Iron Head is common, as is Keldeo's Hydro Pump and Garchomp's Earthquake. Sure, it may be good for taking flying moves, but Acrobatics users are either fast enough to U-Turn, or just hard switch to something like one of the Pokemon I mentioned to remove Diancie before proceeding from where they left off, so it often just acts as dead weight, as it either dies or something has to (likely) take a fair bit of damage from a STAB move aimed at Diancie, which in turn makes Diancie's team mates easier to defeat with priority or Acrobatics.
1 yoman5 1366 77.5 1735 ± 57
Just peaked the ladder and I can say with confidence that momentum is the most important aspect of every game of this meta. U-turn, offensive bulkmons, and mixed attackers are all very very good. Mons that can tank hits from faster mons and ko back are VERY good (garchomp one of the best in this aspect as its raw speed and power are huge but its ability to tank hits is unreal. Tornadus is hands down the best offensive threat in the tier, as acrobatics+heat wave is insane coverage in the meta, speed tier is great, it can survive even boosted hits (like it can actively switch into volcarona and either take the hit and then force the switch or tank the +1 dance and then ko with acro), and on top of all of that it has u-turn, which is also very good because of the importance of momentum. Recovery is nonexistent so realizing which of your mons kill which of theirs is INCREDIBLY important. If there's a mon which can only be handled by your 1 check, you best keep that healthy because otherwise the mon destroys you. Double switching and hazards are really good, but double switching can be risky as a lot of mons in the tier (weavile, genesect) can just crush you if given a free turn to set up. Anyway, this meta is great, and I don't think anything is unbalanced, but I'll leave a top5 mons in the tier list (in my opinion/experience):
1: Tornadus. good speed, good spa, ohkos skarm/ferro/scizor/bisharp with heat wave, ohkos a lot with acro, has uturn.
2: Garchomp. I already mentioned this above, but in addition it has sd and sr to add to its potent arsenal. Always carry stone edge imo.
3: Skymin. yeah this low. Its good and fast but can't actually ohko a ton. Healing wish is absolutely amazing as a fake baton pass esque move that grants a free switch.
4: Weavile. Centralizing monster. shard night slash crash, and has a choice to run fake out but sd is too potent with dark coverage being so damn good here.
5: Genesect. Has the advantage of extreme coverage and flexibility. the shift gear sweeper set is potent, but the threat of that set means that the mixed uturn set is actually even better and leads to gaining huge momentum. Also destroys weavile (though dies to night slash at +2 after rocks)
Honorable mention: metagross. Super bulky, has pursuit, has bullet punch. Wonderfully anti meta. Wins in a 1v1 scenario vs the top 4 I mentioned.
Just peaked the ladder and I can say with confidence that momentum is the most important aspect of every game of this meta. U-turn, offensive bulkmons, and mixed attackers are all very very good. Mons that can tank hits from faster mons and ko back are VERY good (garchomp one of the best in this aspect as its raw speed and power are huge but its ability to tank hits is unreal. Tornadus is hands down the best offensive threat in the tier, as acrobatics+heat wave is insane coverage in the meta, speed tier is great, it can survive even boosted hits (like it can actively switch into volcarona and either take the hit and then force the switch or tank the +1 dance and then ko with acro), and on top of all of that it has u-turn, which is also very good because of the importance of momentum. Recovery is nonexistent so realizing which of your mons kill which of theirs is INCREDIBLY important. If there's a mon which can only be handled by your 1 check, you best keep that healthy because otherwise the mon destroys you. Double switching and hazards are really good, but double switching can be risky as a lot of mons in the tier (weavile, genesect) can just crush you if given a free turn to set up. Anyway, this meta is great, and I don't think anything is unbalanced, but I'll leave a top5 mons in the tier list (in my opinion/experience):
1: Tornadus. good speed, good spa, ohkos skarm/ferro/scizor/bisharp with heat wave, ohkos a lot with acro, has uturn.
2: Garchomp. I already mentioned this above, but in addition it has sd and sr to add to its potent arsenal. Always carry stone edge imo.
3: Skymin. yeah this low. Its good and fast but can't actually ohko a ton. Healing wish is absolutely amazing as a fake baton pass esque move that grants a free switch.
4: Weavile. Centralizing monster. shard night slash crash, and has a choice to run fake out but sd is too potent with dark coverage being so damn good here.
5: Genesect. Has the advantage of extreme coverage and flexibility. the shift gear sweeper set is potent, but the threat of that set means that the mixed uturn set is actually even better and leads to gaining huge momentum. Also destroys weavile (though dies to night slash at +2 after rocks)
Honorable mention: metagross. Super bulky, has pursuit, has bullet punch. Wonderfully anti meta. Wins in a 1v1 scenario vs the top 4 I mentioned.
Teambuilding in this Metagame wud be pretty difficult. What to chose? Pokemon are mostly OU because of Abilities of Mega Stone. When they are not allowed, those Pokemon become useless. Take Sableye for example. No Prankster, No Mega Stone. Its would become pretty shitty unless you're running Trick Room. Knock Off would also become pretty useless in this tier. But still, Ill post some sets:
Blissey (F)
- Soft-Boiled\Wish
- Aromatherapy
- Toxic
- Seismic Toss
No Eviolite, So RIP Chansey. Blissey takes over as the Bulky Pokemon.
Chesnaught (M)
- Leech Seed
- Spiky Shield
- Drain Punch
- Seed Bomb
Well, I agree with BetaHousing for Leech Seed being really OP in this tier, as there wud be no Lefties Recovery. Spiky Shield is necessary, and the other moves are for damage.
This much for now. Ill post more later.
Blissey (F)
- Soft-Boiled\Wish
- Aromatherapy
- Toxic
- Seismic Toss
No Eviolite, So RIP Chansey. Blissey takes over as the Bulky Pokemon.
Chesnaught (M)
- Leech Seed
- Spiky Shield
- Drain Punch
- Seed Bomb
Well, I agree with BetaHousing for Leech Seed being really OP in this tier, as there wud be no Lefties Recovery. Spiky Shield is necessary, and the other moves are for damage.
This much for now. Ill post more later.
Maleovex
Lt. Col. of The Kyergrzstan Killer Beez
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/monsjustmons-256517465
So, with that, I capped the MonsJustMons ladder with this team
Weavile
Ability: Pressure
- Night Slash
- Ice Shard
- Icicle Crash
- Swords Dance
Tornadus
Ability: Prankster
- Hurricane
- U-turn
- Heat Wave
- Tailwind
Gengar
Ability: Levitate
- Sludge Wave
- Shadow Ball
- Dark Pulse
- Focus Blast
Genesect
Ability: Download
Hasty Nature
- Extreme Speed
- Iron Head
- U-turn
- Ice Beam
Garchomp
Ability: Sand Veil
- Earthquake
- Swords Dance
- Stone Edge
- Dragon Claw
Talonflame
Ability: Flame Body
- Flare Blitz
- Brave Bird
- Will-O-Wisp/Roost
- U-turn
So here's a list of the top 10 pokes in the meta imo
10. Volcarona: Probably best quiver dancer in the meta, with access to great fire and bug stab, along with will-o, roost and giga drain, but severely outclassed by talonflame
9. Jolteon: Only came across this once in that last battle, but lightning fast and ver
8. Gengar: Great move pool, and fairly fast, but not quite fast or strong enough to really destroy teams
7. Genesect: Great move pool but mediocre speed stat that can't be fixed with scarf
6. Alakazam: Super fast special attacker, but dies much too quickly
5.Talonflame: Super fast strong physical attacker, but doesn't really get a chance to recover, making it very likely to die quickly
4. Tornadus: Extremely fast mixed attacker, who can gain momentum, and hits like a truck
3. Garchomp: Bulky, Strong and Fast, what more do you need?
2. Shaymin-Sky: Super fast with 2 great stabs, not ban worthy though
1. Weavile: Super fast and Strong, ice stab hitting much of the best pokes in the meta super effectively, and coupled with night slash, has near perfect coverage in this meta, and an ice shard that hits like a truck
So that is my top 10, and a quick overview of the meta
So, with that, I capped the MonsJustMons ladder with this team
Weavile
Ability: Pressure
- Night Slash
- Ice Shard
- Icicle Crash
- Swords Dance
Tornadus
Ability: Prankster
- Hurricane
- U-turn
- Heat Wave
- Tailwind
Gengar
Ability: Levitate
- Sludge Wave
- Shadow Ball
- Dark Pulse
- Focus Blast
Genesect
Ability: Download
Hasty Nature
- Extreme Speed
- Iron Head
- U-turn
- Ice Beam
Garchomp
Ability: Sand Veil
- Earthquake
- Swords Dance
- Stone Edge
- Dragon Claw
Talonflame
Ability: Flame Body
- Flare Blitz
- Brave Bird
- Will-O-Wisp/Roost
- U-turn
So here's a list of the top 10 pokes in the meta imo
10. Volcarona: Probably best quiver dancer in the meta, with access to great fire and bug stab, along with will-o, roost and giga drain, but severely outclassed by talonflame
9. Jolteon: Only came across this once in that last battle, but lightning fast and ver
8. Gengar: Great move pool, and fairly fast, but not quite fast or strong enough to really destroy teams
7. Genesect: Great move pool but mediocre speed stat that can't be fixed with scarf
6. Alakazam: Super fast special attacker, but dies much too quickly
5.Talonflame: Super fast strong physical attacker, but doesn't really get a chance to recover, making it very likely to die quickly
4. Tornadus: Extremely fast mixed attacker, who can gain momentum, and hits like a truck
3. Garchomp: Bulky, Strong and Fast, what more do you need?
2. Shaymin-Sky: Super fast with 2 great stabs, not ban worthy though
1. Weavile: Super fast and Strong, ice stab hitting much of the best pokes in the meta super effectively, and coupled with night slash, has near perfect coverage in this meta, and an ice shard that hits like a truck
So that is my top 10, and a quick overview of the meta
This is how everyone casually plays Pokemon, and I like it already without even needing to try it.Approved by The Eevee General
Amazing Banner made by Arhops
Welcome to MonsJustMons, named based off of DougJustDoug, and it sounded nice.
What is MonsJustMons? The metagame is very simple. It is basically just mons. No Items, no abilities, no natures, no EVs, No IVs. Nothing. Just the mons, the stats, the moves, and a team. It's like the Gen 1 OU, without all of the bugs, and OP hyper beam.
How will my mon be viable without my lefties, or eviolite? It may not be. The only way to really recover is through moves. Leech seed will be a very common sight in this meta.
What about my megas? How will they work? They are used by items. If you get them through an item in battle, then you can't use them.. Simple as that.
What about Aegislash? His ability is crucial to him! Since this is a thing, and aegislash's normal form is shield, blade is unusable. What Aegislash comes out as, is what it is.
Where do I play this metagame? Cuurently playable as Leader's Choice! on main server here!
What moves will be great here? DEFINITELY set-up and support moves. With removing of abilities, (so no levitate, at all) you will see a lot of spikes and stealth rocks. While those will be common, so will moves that will support your mons/teams. Lots of Rapid Spinners and wish passers. Even then, you will see a lot of set-up sweepers. With no unaware, or Speed Boost, you can set-up on the right mon. Which will let you see more haze, and roar. This meta's main moves are simple, Kill first, and don't be killed.
What's banned? What can I use? Good question!
Banned Pokemon
Unbanned Pokemon
That's cool, yet what is a sample set you can lend me? Here ya go.
Venusaur (Venusaur)
- Synthesis
- Giga Drain
- Sludge Bomb
- Sleep Powder
Heatran (Heatran)
- Earth Power
- Lava Plume
- Taunt
- Will-O-Wisp
Now, discuss, my people. BE FREE
why dark pulse on gar? it doesn't really hit much afaik. you'd probably be better off running a utility move like sub, taunt or d-bond in that slot, or even icy wind.
Icy wind gengar is incredibly potent, but do keep in mind that gengar does NOT ohko garchomp with it, not even after rocks. This is why I keep toting garchomp as such a good bulkmon. It can take hits from most of the tier and ko back pretty confidently. (same for keldeo, though outrage only does 60-70% instead of eq koing gengar)