Serious Death Penalty

[g]

(im a traditionalist l0l)

there is no tradition. The fact that you live in a democratic state with the aim to protect your life and that of the other citizens just stops any possibility of death sentences in its tracks. The fact that an entity such as the state (which is basically your representative in a democratic state) acts revenge against its citizens (also the state entity) doesn't also make any sense at all. Don't try to justify your position on tradition since there is no opinion or tradition here.

 

[DM]

But at that point, we wouldnt put anyone in prison and our cointries and world woild become more unsafe then they already are.

Or, we could use all of the wasted hundreds of millions of dollars in the ludicrous war on drugs and funnel them instead into programs that will build communities, strengthen families, and lower the crime rate from the inside out. We live in a reactionary society, whether we're talking about crime or personal health (get sick, then take drugs to get better) or anything else. We need to start taking PREVENTATIVE measures.

I understand that there are cases of innocent people being put away to unreliable testimonies, however, nowadays, mostly some kind of physical, forsensic, or at least circumstantial evidence is needed to have a case, as it is much tougher to convict someone of murder then than of murder now.

As a young black man, you really need to read up on this subject. You are statistically twice as likely to be killed by police than a white man, twice as likely to be arrested for the same crime, twice as likely to be CONVICTED, and after conviction, you get longer sentences. The racism inherent in the system is still stacked against you.

I will give of a recent example which won't rely on witness testimony.

Sorry, but I'm not interested in anecdotal evidence.

what percent of people who commit murder and are released on parole, continue their lives as criminals and possibly even mirder again? I understand where you are coming from, but "not being able to even consider" my opinion is quite as you would say, egregious

Yes, recidivism is a terrible problem in this country. But I'd argue that says a shit-ton more about our failures of criminal justice and prison systems, not the people caught in them. Norway, a country with some of the laxest prisons in the world, also has one of the world's lowest recidivism rates (~20%).

I know I am probably wasting my time and posts, but I feel that "theres no other view" is simply wrong

This is a very good discussion, and you are always entitled to your own opinions; don't ever let anyone try to muzzle you.

 

[eren]

Sorry galbia, i thought you quoted only my post with no answer. I will comment that I believe that there is a "tradition" per say that the ancestors of the U.S. used for their every day lives and their justice for crimes prople commited. I wasnt posting an opinion. I was posting that I generally believe what our founding fathers believed.


DM
Yes, I agree that preventative action should be taken to help prevent these terrible acts in the future, however the topic at hand is whether these people who commit these terrible acts should be put to death. I just feel like the only way to get "justice" (there really isnt) for a family who loses a family member to murder, should be put death.

I'm not a man :o. But I understand the statistics regarding race, and I feel that it shouldnt matter the skin color. BUT, many peoplr cant accept this and will make everything regarding color, while I believe ot should be more regarding character.

Yes, our criminal system is fucking shit, I would agree 100%. Many life long criminals get sentenced for less than a month while many first time offenders will be sentencee for a long time.

Also, can you explain what you mean by "lax?" Lax in what regard? Lax as in convictions/sentences or lax as in stuff provided in prison etc

Thanks for your kind words : ]

 

[DM]

Lax, as in people aren't in cages like animals. They are allowed to roam freely. I can sum it up with one word: rehabilitative. You know, the way ours are SUPPOSED to be.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/29/magazine/the-radical-humaneness-of-norways-halden-prison.html?_r=0

They treat their criminals as actual people who can still contribute to society after their release, not as unwanted invalids not worthy of a second thought.

 

[Agile Turtle]

Whether or not you personally agree with the death penalty, and it's clear Justices Breyer and Ginsburg don't... it's an indefensible position that it is forbidden by the constitution as "cruel and unusual punishment" in the 8th amendment.

"Nor shall any person ... be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law," part of the 5th amendment, clearly implies that as long as due process of law is given, the death penalty is allowable. Furthermore, that same 5th amendment begins with "No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury," which explicitly allows for capital punishment even more clearly.

If the death penalty is to be 100% gone, and not just de facto gone (it has been decreasing substantially), there would need to be a constitutional amendment. This language is clear. The founders and the constitution did not view capital punishment as cruel and unusual.

See the problem with all of these early amendments is these people who made the constitution didn't even was their dicks like why are people so against making amendments to the constitution.

The death penalty imo is pretty inhumane unless the person is seriously fucked up, which many people are and there are many people I do think deserve it, however I also believe that without a confession or 100% undeniable proof, the death penalty is a lil bit extreme bc there is always the chance that they are innocent.

 

[eren]

Lax, as in people aren't in cages like animals. They are allowed to roam freely. I can sum it up with one word: rehabilitative. You know, the way ours are SUPPOSED to be.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/29/magazine/the-radical-humaneness-of-norways-halden-prison.html?_r=0

They treat their criminals as actual people who can still contribute to society after their release, not as unwanted invalids not worthy of a second thought.

I was finally able to read the article, and it was a very interesting article. Thank you so much for providing it!

I feel that that system of prison could be more beneficial to our system. It kinda sucks that as I was reading it, I got news that one of my friend's friends got murdered....

But, in spite of that, I do believe people can change yet to many offenders given many chances sometimes its the only choice