Resource ORAS OU Viability Ranking Thread V3 - Read Post 3451 Page 139

[Delibird Heart]

counters Keldeo, Medicham, Zard-X

What if Keldeo runs Taunt or SubCM ? (taunt is not the most common set, but it's always a possibility)
What if Zard X runs Outrage ? (of course this also applies to Lanturn but thats not the point anyways)
What if Medicham runs Thunder Punch ?


252 Atk Pure Power Mega Medicham Thunder Punch vs. 248 HP / 216+ Def Starmie: 226-266 (69.9 - 82.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Hit Starmie on the switch, and since your defensive set runs almost no Speed EVs, Mega Medicham outspeeds and kills.

As for the Paralysis/Burn point, once again it also applies to Lanturn and Slowbro. Apart from rapid spinning (and who wants a Rapid Spinner who's bulk is mediocre at best AND also gets outsped by most of the threats it counters or checks), defensive Starmie has no advantage over other Bulky Water types. And don't even mention Reflect Type, that thing is as unreliable as Belly Drum linoone.

 

[jbtc10]

Keldeo never runs Taunt. Sub CM is a problem, but it's a problem for any defensive Starmie set that doesn't run Psyshock. Medicham rarely runs Thunderpunch. The aim isn't to be able to counter every set in existence, just the most common ones or things that are most threatening to your team. Sub CM could be handled by other members on your team, like Dragonite or w/e. Balance simply can't have direct counters for eveything.
And, did you really suggest that Rapid Spin isn't an advantage Starmie has over other bulky waters? It's literally the reason Starmie is OU. If I want something with reliable recovery + rapid spin, Starmie is virtually the only viable mon with those 2 traits, and it happens to be able to fill some other interesting niches while it's at it. All those things piece together to make it a suitable choice for balance or bulky offense teams.

 

[Of Moose & Men]

I just want to note that this is a thing.

252+ Atk Pure Power Mega Medicham High Jump Kick vs. 248 HP / 216+ Def Starmie: 160-189 (49.5 - 58.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

Lol, this thing is a powerhouse. Also, if I'm not mistaken medicham tend to run Adamant, At least I always have. Regardless, even without TPunch Adamant max speed MegaCham out speeds and 2HKO that Starmie spread. I'll admit I'm not too fond of Starmie dropping because of what it is capable of doing, but it's gonna have a hard time using a defensive set because at the moment, it just isn't all that great. It's all sorts of frail in reality and it's really only switching into Keldeo reliably (as far as big game wallbreakers go), and even that can be troublesome at times. We honestly should be focusing on its offensive set, because it's defensive set is quite lacking in almost all departments.
Though, I will say, Starmie from what I've come to find, is fairly customizable, it doesn't have to be RT or LO analytic Starmie, it has the ability to be a little flexible. However, the truth is, it's defensive set just doesn't cut it.

 

[Clair]

Let's just sum up Starmie because this conversation is making me want to bash my head against a wall. AM Edit: Yes

-Reflect Type is extremely niche in this meta, bordering on just being bad. It helps against Ferrothorn and slow Pursuiters but offers almost no other utility or team support.
-Defensive sets should generally use Reflect, Thunder Wave or another coverage option in the 4th moveslot instead (Ice Beam is pretty reasonable right now for Chomp).
-Offensive sets are better in this meta anyway.

There ya go. Please no more discussion of 252 HP / 216+ Def Starmie, it's just a bad set that wastes Starmie's best asset. Let's move on.

Lanturn Unlisted -> D Now this might seem weird at first glance, but I assure you that Lanturn has a niche, if little, in OU. First, while it has mediocre 58/75 defenses, it's large 125 HP base stat compensates, making it a very bulky mon if invested. Volt Absorb allows you to completely wall those pesky Electric Types such as Thundurus or Raikou, but also to swap into Rotom-W's very predictable Volt Switch to heal 25%, also causing the opponent to lose a lot of momentum. Lanturn also takes on the role of a cleric through Heal Bell while crippling the Sweepers that might try to set-up on it with Thunder Wave or with Scald. Yes, Lanturn is outclassed by many other walls or supports such as Chansey, Clefable, and so on, but it fills the unique role of a Electric-Type wall while also bringing team support to the table. In my opinion, it at least deserves to be D rank.

Lanturn can even stop Charizard-Mega-X with Thunder Wave, even after one DD :

252+ Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Dragon Claw vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Lanturn: 190-225 (41.8 - 49.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
+1 252+ Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Dragon Claw vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Lanturn: 285-336 (62.7 - 74%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Lanturn isn't outclassed at all, it has a definite niche at the moment. Tornadus-T, Thundurus, M-Manectric and Raikou are all either huge threats rn or on the way up and Lanturn counters them easily, while providing Heal Bell and paralysis support. It can actually be a major pain for common offensive builds, and isn't a momentum killer against balanced either because of Scald and Volt Switch. Definitely deserving of D.

 

[DoABarrelRoll]

Mega Diancie: A+ -----> A: Really, it's no longer the threat it was before. Mega Scizor gives it much pain, the shift to offense doesn't bring it many favors either, and it still has the problems it had before, such as mega evolving safely and its low bulk after going mega. I find RP to be its best set imo, since it cleans up offense really well and doesn't really fear Weavile and Mega Zard X/Alt, but even that set hates Scizor and Azu.

Feraligatr: B+ ------> A-: man this thing is awesome. Setting up a Dragon Dance isn't that hard considering Gatr's natural bulk, and it cleans offense really well at +1 considering the power of its attacks as well as resistances to Bullet Punch, Ice Shard and Aqua Jet. Not taking LO recoil means this thing is fairly hard to wear down, which is a huge plus. Swords Dance means balance is not safe either. I honestly think it's better than mons such as Breloom and Diggersby, who have no means of boosting their speed, and have to rely on priority.

Nidoqueen: C- ------> C/C+: Nidoqueen's best set imo, and what makes it at least C rank, is an offensive tank set with Stealth Rock, Sludge Wave, Earth Power and Fire Blast. It's able to check fairies (especially Clef) and steels very easily due to its good bulk and typing, as well as resistance to Stealth Rock. It's not very easy to switch into despite its lowish base 75 SpA, especially since it can afford to run Modest. Honestly, I've never tried the defensive set (if that's viable), but I think this set is better anyway. How is the ability to both set up rocks, counter Clefable/Skarmory/Ferro and check Mega Scizor/Altaria only worthy of C-?
(will also provide some replays but they are down currently)

 

[Delibird Heart]

I didn't suggest that Starmie having Rapid Spin isn't an advantage, I just said it wouldn't work very well with the set you were speaking about. Imo Rapid Spin is only really useful on offensive LO Starmie which can force out some threats such as Excadrill, Hippowdon or Lando-T and Rapid Spin on the switch.

I also wholeheartedly agree with the points Moose listed above, which are essentially what I've been trying to explain : Starmie was made to be offensive, and defensive Starmie really is bad/kinda gimmicky in my opinion.

 

[Martin]

I like Lanturn, and really the best comparison you can make for core role for it would be Stunfisk tbh. I remember discussion about it a while ago, and they are almost parallels of one-another in their core role (they split off when you go deeper though) as they are both used for the purpose of checking things like Man, Raikou, Thundy, Torny etc. Personally, I think that they should both be in D as they fit on different teams (Stunfisk is better suited to offense due to its typing and access to rocks and yawn, Lanturn fits better onto balance due to its typing and access to Heal Bell and Scald) while retaning a very valuable niche. They have very legitimate niches in the meta atm, and for that they should be ranked.

 

[AM]

And, did you really suggest that Rapid Spin isn't an advantage Starmie has over other bulky waters? It's literally the reason Starmie is OU. If I want something with reliable recovery + rapid spin, Starmie is virtually the only viable mon with those 2 traits, and it happens to be able to fill some other interesting niches while it's at it. All those things piece together to make it a suitable choice for balance or bulky offense teams.

The real reasons Starmie inevitably went to OU was of Keldeo....which was subliminally or obviously due to Scald. The same reason Celebi rose in the end, let's not kid ourselves with that one as much you'd like to justify that having Rapid Spin made it more viable. It always had it.

Also defensive Starmie is bad for reasons stated up above so not sure what implications you're trying to pull when getting outpaced by Serperior while being a Starmie is also a travesty as well.

Mega Diancie: A+ -----> A: Really, it's no longer the threat it was before. Mega Scizor gives it much pain, the shift to offense doesn't bring it many favors either, and it still has the problems it had before, such as mega evolving safely and its low bulk after going mega. I find RP to be its best set imo, since it cleans up offense really well and doesn't really fear Weavile and Mega Zard X/Alt, but even that set hates Scizor and Azu.

Feraligatr: B+ ------> A-: man this thing is awesome. Setting up a Dragon Dance isn't that hard considering Gatr's natural bulk, and it cleans offense really well at +1 considering the power of its attacks as well as resistances to Bullet Punch, Ice Shard and Aqua Jet. Not taking LO recoil means this thing is fairly hard to wear down, which is a huge plus. Swords Dance means balance is not safe either. I honestly think it's better than mons such as Breloom and Diggersby, who have no means of boosting their speed, and have to rely on priority.

Nidoqueen: C- ------> C/C+: Nidoqueen's best set imo, and what makes it at least C rank, is an offensive tank set with Stealth Rock, Sludge Wave, Earth Power and Fire Blast. It's able to check fairies (especially Clef) and steels very easily due to its good bulk and typing, as well as resistance to Stealth Rock. It's not very easy to switch into despite its lowish base 75 SpA, especially since it can afford to run Modest. Honestly, I've never tried the defensive set (if that's viable), but I think this set is better anyway. How is the ability to both set up rocks, counter Clefable/Skarmory/Ferro and check Mega Scizor/Altaria only worthy of C-?
(will also provide some replays but they are down currently)

I clearly haven't had my coffee yet to be replying to this one clearly. M-Diancie is still a major threat with a ton of potential behind it and I have 0 clue what your actual argument is for dropping it so it's hard to elaborate further than that if it ends up being worth it.

I mean overhyping Feraligatr and Nidoqueen like that I don't particularly know what to say here ._.

 

[Darkai34]

Feraligatr: B+ ------> A-: man this thing is awesome. Setting up a Dragon Dance isn't that hard considering Gatr's natural bulk, and it cleans offense really well at +1 considering the power of its attacks as well as resistances to Bullet Punch, Ice Shard and Aqua Jet. Not taking LO recoil means this thing is fairly hard to wear down, which is a huge plus. Swords Dance means balance is not safe either. I honestly think it's better than mons such as Breloom and Diggersby, who have no means of boosting their speed, and have to rely on priority.

I have to second this. Gatr can sweep extremely well in this meta. It's bulk means it doesn't have to worry about priority, and with +2 DDs he can outspeed MegaZam and basically clean up. It is able to take hits from Weavile (tho not that well) and KO back, kill Hoopa-U and MegaZam. The only things that resist its moves are Mega Gyarados (who does Gatr's job as well if not better but requires a mega slot) and Keldeo.

 

[serperioriscool]

Mega Diancie: A+ -----> A: Really, it's no longer the threat it was before. Mega Scizor gives it much pain, the shift to offense doesn't bring it many favors either, and it still has the problems it had before, such as mega evolving safely and its low bulk after going mega. I find RP to be its best set imo, since it cleans up offense really well and doesn't really fear Weavile and Mega Zard X/Alt, but even that set hates Scizor and Azu.

Feraligatr: B+ ------> A-: man this thing is awesome. Setting up a Dragon Dance isn't that hard considering Gatr's natural bulk, and it cleans offense really well at +1 considering the power of its attacks as well as resistances to Bullet Punch, Ice Shard and Aqua Jet. Not taking LO recoil means this thing is fairly hard to wear down, which is a huge plus. Swords Dance means balance is not safe either. I honestly think it's better than mons such as Breloom and Diggersby, who have no means of boosting their speed, and have to rely on priority.

Nidoqueen: C- ------> C/C+: Nidoqueen's best set imo, and what makes it at least C rank, is an offensive tank set with Stealth Rock, Sludge Wave, Earth Power and Fire Blast. It's able to check fairies (especially Clef) and steels very easily due to its good bulk and typing, as well as resistance to Stealth Rock. It's not very easy to switch into despite its lowish base 75 SpA, especially since it can afford to run Modest. Honestly, I've never tried the defensive set (if that's viable), but I think this set is better anyway. How is the ability to both set up rocks, counter Clefable/Skarmory/Ferro and check Mega Scizor/Altaria only worthy of C-?
(will also provide some replays but they are down currently)

You are acting as if 50/110/110 bulk is not good
That bulk is absolutely amazing for an offensive Pokemon

 

[EternalSnowman]

I have to second this. Gatr can sweep extremely well in this meta. It's bulk means it doesn't have to worry about priority, and with +2 DDs he can outspeed MegaZam and basically clean up. It is able to take hits from Weavile (tho not that well) and KO back, kill Hoopa-U and MegaZam. The only things that resist its moves are Mega Gyarados (who does Gatr's job as well if not better but requires a mega slot) and Keldeo.

K I just got a small amount of cancer by reading this post. I mean being a physical attacker and KOing MZam, Hoopa-U and Weavile is literally something anything can do. You know what they all have in common? They can all be OHKO'd by freaking any physical attacker in existence, heck a Kricketune can do that... Gatr just moved up cuz of these things and it really isn't that hard to stop. It either loses to Priority or has to give up a coverage move for Aqua Jet. It may get 1 mon a game but it honestly isn't as impressive as other nonmega DDers like Dnite or Normal Gyarados.

 

[DoABarrelRoll]

You are acting as if 50/110/110 bulk is not good
That bulk is absolutely amazing for an offensive Pokemon

252 SpA Mega Manectric Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Mega Diancie: 156-184 (64.7 - 76.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Mega Manectric Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Weavile: 172-204 (61.2 - 72.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

?????? Even Weavile can take hits better on the special side... And even if Weavile has a shit defensive typing, well so does Mega Diancie.

Not to mention there's shit like Hoopa-U (on the special side), Latios, offensive Lando-T/Chomp, offensive Mega Scizor which are all much bulkier than Diancie...

 

[Machi]

252 SpA Mega Manectric Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Mega Diancie: 156-184 (64.7 - 76.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Mega Manectric Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Weavile: 172-204 (61.2 - 72.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

?????? Even Weavile can take hits better on the special side... And even if Weavile has a shit defensive typing, well so does Mega Diancie.

Not to mention there's shit like Hoopa-U (on the special side), Latios, offensive Lando-T/Chomp, offensive Mega Scizor which are all much bulkier than Diancie...

Well she's not meant to exactly switch in to attacks... if you're taking a hit likely A) You're setting up RP and cleaning up or B) trading blows to take him out is all that really matters.

252 SpA Mega Diancie Earth Power vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Manectric: 276-326 (98.2 - 116%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

Protect variants would just switch out anyways after scouting, and potentially using that chance to do a double switch etc so its kinda moot.

That aside I do agree Protect sets aren't as good in the current meta, thanks to the more offensive nature and the growing prolific use of Serperior/Offensive Starmie/Scarf Hoopa-U. Incidentally, however, it actually ended up raising the viability of her RP set which cleans up well in the current metagame.

As for MZor and BP that isn't exactly much of an issue given how easy it is to punish him and carry checks. Though it wouldn't exactly make much of a difference given that MGross was the premiere steel before and he often carried BP as well so... its not like MDiancie's had a metagame free from that particular priority annoying her to no end.

 

[DoABarrelRoll]

Well she's not meant to exactly switch in to attacks... if you're taking a hit likely A) You're setting up RP and cleaning up or B) trading blows to take him out is all that really matters.

252 SpA Mega Diancie Earth Power vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Manectric: 276-326 (98.2 - 116%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

Protect variants would just switch out anyways after scouting, and potentially using that chance to do a double switch etc so its kinda moot.

Yeah I know Diancie beats Manec, but I don't think you can call 50/110/110 bulk amazing, imo. As you can see in my last post, even Weavile can take hits better on the special side. I just happened to choose Manectric when I compared them.

And yes RP is a great set once you get rid of Scizor and Azu, especially since you can run a +SpA nature and outspeed Scarf Latios.

 

[Machi]

Yeah I know Diancie beats Manec, but I don't think you can call 50/110/110 bulk amazing, imo. As you can see in my last post, even Weavile can take hits better on the special side. I just happened to choose Manectric when I compared them.

And yes RP is a great set once you get rid of Scizor and Azu, especially since you can run a +SpA nature and outspeed Scarf Latios.

But the point is she doesn't crumple like a wet paper towel which is all that matters for an offensive mon really. The point of her taking hits as an offensive mon is more a luxury than anything, aside the dragon immunity/normal resist/flying resist.

As for getting rid of Azu and Scizor that isn't a problem exclusive to her... so I'm not getting how this is suddenly any more meaningful when such mons bother a whole lot, and have always been rather prolific. Meaning the way she is played or built around to deal with those threats is more or less the same so even with their "rise" in popularity, as if they weren't already before, it is not as if they hadn't been accounted for prior that there is any real shifts in that respect.

That said she isn't really on the current slate, she was on the prior ones, but I think discussion there is more or less just leading to the same thing, since even the argument to have her drop is more or less in the same vein. It wasn't that long ago that she was already discussed, her ranking was definitely reviewed in light of changes.

 

[SaberSeven]

Mega Altaria S -> A+: I disagree. Mega Altaria is still a pretty versatile mon with an outstanding typing in Fairy-Dragon. The metagame has shifted to a more offensive one with stuff like Weavile running around, but I think Altaria is fine where it is.

Weavile A -> A+: YES! One of the best offensive mons in the game with a great dual STAB in Knock Off + Icicle Crash & Ice Shard to pick off weakened scarf mons.

Heatran A+ -> A: No. Tran still has great bulk and serves as a check to some prominent threats such as Clefable, Mega Scizor, Talonflame, and so on. It's a tad slow, but its utility keeps it at A+.

Smeargle D -> Unranked: Yup. BP nerf was the nail in this thing's coffin.

 

[Puralux]

Heatran: Being the most consistent Stealth rock setter tied with Hippowdon, and without a doubt the best in the balanced archetype with Clefable is not so little. Although, his specially defensive set is not as strong as once, but he can still rely on other sets like the Fast stealth rock setter with taunt/toxic, Lava plume and earth power which i believe to be the most effective Heatran set at the moment. A fast lure set which relies on Magma storm, toxic, taunt and earth power. Used to fool the opponent that heatran is scarf as they see you have another stealth rock setter. The scarf, which i consider more effective in late game or for revenge killing, that relies into an absurdly powerful Fire stab that does more than that DPP LO Nape’s Fire Blast that some of you may have seen in action. The air baloon set which gives one free turn to set rocks, toxic, or even taunt against instant-threat Earthquake users like Lando-T, Mega Altaria or Char-X, or against non-dangerous but harder to deal with, like Hippowdon or Garchomp. Uses the same stats as the fast setter’s but with Fire Blast instead, used usually to get more guaranteed or occasional 2hkoes. Then there’s the occasional lure set with Power Herb used usually to prevent most OU water types to gain momentum (Example: Manaphy switching and going with tail glow or Rotom-w’s Hydro Pump/Volt switch mindgames). He is one of the most evs customizable mons in ou thanks to rare balanced stats which gives him strong natural bulk, not bad speed, and a great special attack. Heatran is without a doubt the mon that reflects the A+ rank perfectly and i’d really like to know why you come with such an idea, because dropping him is madness.


Weavile: His main problem is without a doubt the longevity, and that it can’t do his job alone. It is obligatory to have some mons that deals with his checks/counters or weavile will be trash, as forcing weavile to switch is one of the worst things that can happen to him with these hazards that aggravates his longevity problem, and his checks are not that few. It has zero defensive utility seeing that defensive stats and especially that typing, so it is really difficult to find an occasion to switch into someone without a high risk of being attacked and KOed or severely weakened, making him useless or almost, if it happens. I feel that A+ is too much, it is fine where it is.


Mega Alakazam: It has problems of longevity and bulk like weavile, but a bit less. I feel the most weighty of Mega Kazam’s problem is the mega slot opportunity cost, but it’s fine if you have an urgent need to outspeed all non-scarfed mons in the tier that you cannot outspeed with LO Kazam. Other problems comes also from the loss of magic guard, but that’s luckily compensated by Trace, which helps Mega Alakazam to show his utility in another way. Tracing various abilities like, for example: the speed boosting abilities, Regenerator, Lightingrod, Sheer force, even Magic Bounce, can literally capsize the fate of a battle. Being able to 2hko always or sometimes a lot of stuff with that strong Psychic STAB and Mega Sableye with Dazzling gleam also restricts his switchin list. A rank is perfect in my opinion.

 

[teamsnickers]

Mega Gardevoir A -> A+ This thing is honestly just stupid rn. Its first 3 moves are always a given (psyshock, hyper voice, and focus blast) gives it solid coverage that leaves its best switch ins as jirachi and klefki.. The ONLY thing stall usually has for mega garde is talon (which is easiely two hit koed by psyshock on any mega garde set) and shed which just loses if mega gardevoir has will o... Its 100 base speed allows mega Garde to outspeed all walls.. The best way to deal with mega garde is to bring in a steel type on it, but garde can also run hp fire (loses out on the 100 base speed stat but modest is getting alot more usage anyway and steel types like ferro and heatran are weary of focus blast..) or just revenge it with something like weavile... while its physical bulk is not very good it still avoids alot of one hit kos and makes up for it with its fairy/psychic typing and solid special bulk.. Mega Gardevoir is a huge pain in the ass for all balanced and stall teams but also can be a huge problem for offense as most offensive teams dont prepare for it that much (just slap a steel on it and pray it doesnt have will o or hp fire...) I have replays showing mega gardevoirs effectiveness in the metagame with some high rated ladder battles but replays are down rn so ill put them in later....

 

[hey yal]

srry for screwing ur mega alt discussion i have a nom

a to b+/b

this might be a huge jump but gliscor is underwhelming af rn. it's role as a stallbreaker is way outdated as stall sucks is not as good as it was in the beginning in oras where landoi existed and now we have things like manaphy and hoopa flooding the meta. not only that, but gliscor is outclassed by hippo lando-t and garchomp for a spot as a bulky ground. hippo fits better than gliscor on most stall/balance teams landot fits better on balance teams while chomp is much better than gliscor on offense. these two also have the ability to reliability to set up rocks unlike scor coz the pile of shit doesn't have that much space on it's moveset.

 

[Poek]

srry for screwing ur mega alt discussion i have a nom

a to b+/b

this might be a huge jump but gliscor is underwhelming af rn. it's role as a stallbreaker is way outdated as stall sucks is not as good as it was in the beginning in oras where landoi existed and now we have things like manaphy and hoopa flooding the meta. not only that, but gliscor is outclassed by hippo and garchomp for a spot as a bulky ground. hippo fits better than gliscor on most stall/balance teams while chomp is much better than gliscor on offense. these two also have the ability to reliability to set up rocks unlike scor coz the pile of shit doesn't have that much space on it's moveset.

Gliscor is one of these pokemons that are really overprepared for some times and other times people just forget him cuz it isn't used as much and tend to be weak to it back again and it roses in usage and the cycle repeats... such a threat shouldn't go lower than A imo, as it is coming back again, also you are overrating hippo and garchomp, they don't outclass gliscor at all, they all wish to have the status inmunity AND the spikes inmunity to not get widdled as much (not like chomp has recovery anyways) but also is a dumb comparison since they kinda do different things. Gliscor also doesn't have to be always a stallbreaking force with taunt or fat set up with SD; it can also run a very viable set of SR, EQ, SEdge, U-turn / roost which is probably a better talonflame check since it can't get burned, and there you have it, Gliscor can fit rocks on his set if you really need him to. let's not drop this thing lol

 

[hey yal]

Gliscor is one of these pokemons that are really overprepared for some times and other times people just forget him cuz it isn't used as much and tend to be weak to it back again and it roses in usage and the cycle repeats... such a threat shouldn't go lower than A imo, as it is coming back again, also you are overrating hippo and garchomp, they don't outclass gliscor at all, they all wish to have the status inmunity AND the spikes inmunity to not get widdled as much (not like chomp has recovery anyways) but also is a dumb comparison since they kinda do different things. Gliscor also doesn't have to be always a stallbreaking force with taunt or fat set up with SD; it can also run a very viable set of SR, EQ, SEdge, U-turn / roost which is probably a better talonflame check since it can't get burned, and there you have it, Gliscor can fit rocks on his set if you really need him to. let's not drop this thing lol

why would u run that over lando-t bar being immune to status? have u actually tried that set in practice

while gliscor is p good i just don't see it in a rank along with bro gengar and lati

 

[Imperator Romanum]

So nobody really responded, what has changed positively for Mega Alakazam recently that warrents a rise? Its always been fast and powerful, now we have three metagame treds towards it...

 

[Poek]

why would u run that over lando-t bar being immune to status? have u actually tried that set in practice

The set doesn't fit on all teams of course, apart from things that Lando already does it also checks bisharp and being status inmune is huge in my opinion, again its kinda specific, but if your team needs status inmunity and a decent bisharp check once the orb is activated then gliscor is there if you need it.

 

[TheyCallMeAdolf]

why would u run that over lando-t bar being immune to status? have u actually tried that set in practice

while gliscor is p good i just don't see it in a rank along with bro gengar and lati

It is definitely not fair to say that Lando-T "outclasses" gliscor. You can try and argue that Lando-T is better overall, but they definitely have their own advantages and disadvantages and serve different roles. Lando-T is a lot easier to wear down, as it lacks reliable recovery while gliscor has access to both roost and poison heal. Gliscor is also a knock off/status absorber and has access to taunt making it much more effective against stall. Also, I feel it is extremely disingenuous to say that stall is complete shit right now. While the meta may be favouring offense more with the release of Hoopa-U and the prevalence of mons like manaphy, stall and semi-stall are still very viable playstyles (more-so semi-stall imo) , and there is a reason it is so prevalent on the higher ladder. I definitely feel gliscor is a much better asset than a- mons such as celebi and rotom-w, and honestly trying to drop it to b with shit like beedril, chansey and empoleon is just ridiculous...

Edit: Being a knock-off absorber in a meta where fucking EVERYTHING learns and uses knock-off and nothing likes losing their item is a pretty good pro imo

 

[North Gate]

aren't we like supposed to keep to the discussion points or am i misinterpreting what based lord AM said earlier



i'm still trying to wrap my head around why people want mega altaria to drop from s when it nowhere near matches the viability of mons in a+ lmao the counterplay people have for this thing is usually steels that get fucking roasted by fire blast on dragon dance, get fucked over by alts DDD set lol, or get shit on by special support alt. there's so many sets it's hard to check 'em all in one or sometimes even two slots of a team and being weak to alt is lol, it will rip you to pieces if you don't have the necessary counterplay for it. it has like 4 different sets and all of them are nice, it supports its team very well and is self sufficient, and safely switches into both zard formes bar like the rare iron tail on zardx. that is really nice imo, and with refresh/heal bell it can function as a nice status absorber and fucks over checks that rely on status to keep alt down so like lol, in practice the thing can actually chew its checks to bits with the right move or set

fire blast malt with eq and return is pretty much roasting like 60% of your standard alt checks, and DDD takes about 30% of those checks and makes them a liability in battle i mean yeah everyone carries 1-3 checks on every team but that's kinda what you're supposed to do with top tier threats and malt can kill one of those so called 'checks' if it carries the right move

alt requires a lot of preparedness, and people have been doing that, sure, but i think the amount of resuscitation it causes in battle and the amount of top tier stuff it checks naturally due to typing keeps it deserving of S