[Balanced Hackmons] Regigigas [QC:1/3]

[Illusio]

Feel free to leave suggestions at any point
QC: Pikachuun / QC2 / QC3
WP: WP1 / WP2
[OVERVIEW]

• Regigigas’s attack and speed stats make Regigigas a competent attack
• Good bulk allows Regigigas to tank hits most other attackers wouldn’t
• Somewhat Imposter-proof, as Chansey won't get the boosted Facade or any recovery
• Normal typing is both a blessing and curse, as it gives great STAB in Facade, but a poor defensive typing, giving no resistances for Regigigas
• Has a hard time switching in to things, as a Knock Off or any status before it can get poisoned completely ruins Regigigas
• Walled entirely by Shedinja

[SET]
name: Poison Heal
move 1: Facade
move 2: Shift Gear / Spore
move 3: Spiky Shield / Fake Out
move 4: Knock Off / Thousand Arrows / Sacred Fire
item: Toxic Orb
ability: Poison Heal
nature: Adamant
evs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
Moves
========

• Facade is a strong STAB 140 BP (after getting poisoned) move that allows Regigigas to hit most of the metagame pretty hard.
• Shift Gear doubles Regigigas's speed, making it able to outspeed most of the meta, while also giving it an attack boost to make Facade even stronger.
• Spore can also be used, as Regigigas can take advantage of the sleep to hit them with multiple Facades. Spore also helps to make Regigigas more Imposter-proof, as it can Spore the opposing Pokemon, but can't get Spored back due to the poison.
• Spiky Shield is used first turn to make sure that Regigigas won't be statused or have its Toxic Orb, almost guaranteeing that Regigigas will be poisoned, so that it can utilize Facade and Poison Heal. Spiky Shield can also be used to help scout movesets, block a suspected Fake Out or Extreme Speed, and give Regigigas a free turn of healing.
• Fake Out can also be used to guarantee that Regigigas won't lose its poison first turn.
• Knock Off is able to 2HKO most Ghost types such as Giratina and Aegislash, while also being a neutral attack on most Pokemon that resist Facade.
• Thousand Arrows allows Regigigas to OHKO that resist Facade. However, it also allows you to get walled by bulkier Pokemon like Giratina.
• Sacred Fire is a risk-and-reward type move. Its 50% chance to burn allows it to shut down some physical attackers that would otherwise OHKO it, and also to sometimes beat Shedinja. On the other hand, if used on an Imposter Pokemon, it allows for them to get the Facade boost and possibly sweep you.

Set Details
========

• Poison Heal is a great ability for Regigigas, as it allows it to get the Facade boost, as well as a 12% health boost every turn, increasing its ability to live multiple hits on the way to sweeping.
• The Toxic Orb is used to give Regigigas the Poison Heal/Facade boost
• An Adamant nature allows Regigigas to hit with more power, while the EVs increase Regigigas's overall bulk and ability to hit hard.
• Speed isn't an important EV because Regigigas already outspeeds almost everything at +2

Usage Tips
========

• You should never want to switch into Regigigas without making sure that it won't be statused in the turn before Toxic Orb activates (e.g. a double switch, a baton pass by a slower pokemon, one of your pokemon faints, etc.)
• If you were able to successfully switch Regigigas in, then go for Spiky Shield or Fake Out, so that you can enable the Poison and boost Facade and Poison Heal.
• After that, if you think that the opponent can OHKO you, then go for a Facade (or Knock Off it it's a Ghost type). Otherwise, if you don't think the opponent can OHKO you, then use Shift Gear, allowing Regigigas to sweep.
• After setting up, proceed to use Facade on everything that doesn't resist it, and use Knock Off for the Ghost types or Thousand Arrows for the Steel or Rock types. Sacred Fire is used to beat physical attackers who might OHKO Regigigas.

Team Options
========

• This Pokemon works well with a Sturdy Shedinja counter, such as Mold Breaker Pursuit Giratina, as Regigigas is unable to remove Shedinja.
• Regigigas also works well when combined with hazard setters, such as Deoxys-Speed, as hazards are able to deal a fair amount of damage to bulky Pokemon that would normally be 2HKO'd by Regigigas. Hazards also allow Regigigas to beat Shedinja and other Sturdy/Focus Sash Pokemon.
• Giratina in general is a great teammate, because if Chansey manages to KO Regigigas, then Giratina can wall its attacks.

[STRATEGY COMMENTS]
Other Options
=============

• Extreme Speed is a usable move if you find that you get constantly beaten by -ate spam.
• King's Shield is another move that will help you beat -ate spam, but it also allows you to get hit by status.
• Belly Drum Illusion when Illusioning a Shedinja is another set, although it's grown to be very predictable in the BH meta and can easily be stopped.
• Another niche for Regigigas is Pecha Berry and Trick, to help beat other Poison Heal Pokemon. However, this niche is near worthless if the opponent does not have a Poison Heal Pokemon on their team.

Checks and Counters
===================
**Sturdy Shedinja**: Regigigas is completely unable to hit Sturdy Shedinja, so it will have to switch out.

**Giratina**: Giratina is able to survive all of Regigigas's attacks, and can use its recovery to eventually force Regigigas to switch out.

**Fakespeed**: After taking a Fake Out and an Extreme Speed, Regigigas will have very little health left, allowing for an easy kill next turn.

**Unaware Walls**: Regigigas is walled by Unaware Pokemon such as Cresselia, making Regigigas an open target, while only doing mild damage to the Unaware Pokemon.

**Mega Mewtwo X and Y**: Both X and Y outspeed Regigigas and can hit it hard with a Fighting type move, leaving Regigigas either OHKO'd or extremely weak.

 

[Illusio]

Ready to be Quality Checked!

 

[Pikachuun]

Wow this is my first QC hopefully I did a good job

Only Set:
Moves:
State that Facade is only 140 BP after Regigigas is statused. If your item gets knocked off it just becomes a derpy 70 BP move.
Shift Gear isn't really a necessity on Regigigas imo, as it doesn't change the set too much, it just changes its role. Slash Spore here for those non-setup people because they exist and sometimes Spore is a good move to have.
Rename the set to Poison Heal for the above reason.
I haven't really seen Fake Out on Regigigas tbh. Spiky Shield should be slashed, if not replacing Fake Out, since it's more useful for scouting and the like. King's Shield could be a slash here too rather than being in OO to detriment Fighting-type moves from MMX and friends as well as -ate stuff. Spore could also be slashed here if you don't want a Shield move, due to its ability to be used safely and even against an Imposter as a form of Imposter-proofing.
Sacred Fire can be run for a neat burn chance as your final move, but also mention that burn powers up the Imposter's Facade without the attack drop. It also allows a bit easier of a time imposter-proofing because you can just run Flash Fire Aegis and be done with it. Thousand Arrows or Precipice Blades are superior to EQ as an option; pick one to replace EQ with.
Team Options
What provides hazards for Regigigas? State examples.

Other Options:
Illusion Belly Drum should be mentinoed here due to it being just good enough for a mention, you should state that it's kinda eh in comparison to the Poison Heal set though.
Checks and Counters:
Giratina should definitely be mentioned here as even with Knock Off Regigigas has trouble dealing with it, especially if Giratina is Fur Coat.
Unaware depends on the Pokemon so you'd probably want to be specific about which Unawares wall it (if any). Of course Unaware becomes a non-issue without Shift Gear just because of the principle of the thing.
Potentially some offensive checks could also be mentioned here ala MMX and Protean MMY due to their ability to hit Regigigas hard with Fighting-type STAB moves.

QC 1/3 post-implementation.

 

[Illusio]

Wow this is my first QC hopefully I did a good job

Only Set:
Moves:
State that Facade is only 140 BP after Regigigas is statused. If your item gets knocked off it just becomes a derpy 70 BP move.
Shift Gear isn't really a necessity on Regigigas imo, as it doesn't change the set too much, it just changes its role. Slash Spore here for those non-setup people because they exist and sometimes Spore is a good move to have.
Rename the set to Poison Heal for the above reason.
I haven't really seen Fake Out on Regigigas tbh. Spiky Shield should be slashed, if not replacing Fake Out, since it's more useful for scouting and the like. King's Shield could be a slash here too rather than being in OO to detriment Fighting-type moves from MMX and friends as well as -ate stuff. Spore could also be slashed here if you don't want a Shield move, due to its ability to be used safely and even against an Imposter as a form of Imposter-proofing.
Sacred Fire can be run for a neat burn chance as your final move, but also mention that burn powers up the Imposter's Facade without the attack drop. It also allows a bit easier of a time imposter-proofing because you can just run Flash Fire Aegis and be done with it. Thousand Arrows or Precipice Blades are superior to EQ as an option; pick one to replace EQ with.
Team Options
What provides hazards for Regigigas? State examples.

Other Options:
Illusion Belly Drum should be mentinoed here due to it being just good enough for a mention, you should state that it's kinda eh in comparison to the Poison Heal set though.
Checks and Counters:
Giratina should definitely be mentioned here as even with Knock Off Regigigas has trouble dealing with it, especially if Giratina is Fur Coat.
Unaware depends on the Pokemon so you'd probably want to be specific about which Unawares wall it (if any). Of course Unaware becomes a non-issue without Shift Gear just because of the principle of the thing.
Potentially some offensive checks could also be mentioned here ala MMX and Protean MMY due to their ability to hit Regigigas hard with Fighting-type STAB moves.

QC 1/3 post-implementation.

Added everything except the part on King's Shield, as I still believe that having King's Shield negates part of the point of having the move, to protect status.

 

[skies]

Please QC this when you are able to. E4 Flint, Kingslayer2779, nyan kat, Piccolo Daimao, Uselesscrab

 

[Piccolo Daimao]

I'm QCing this right now. I'll edit in to this post when I'm done and post on your wall Illusio. Edit: Done

Overview:

• Maybe your set is walled entirely by Shedinja, but it's not fair to say that all Regigigases are. I'd remove this line.
• You might want to mention it works better as a late game sweeper once Shed/Ray is out of the way (with Spore you don't need to worry about Chans too much)

Set:

• Honestly this is not the best set it can run. Spiky Shield/Fake Out isn't all that great on a mon with 4mss already. The set I'd recommend you put here is Spore, Facade, Shift Gear, Knock Off/1kArrows. Maybe you can add Spiky as a slash with Shift Gear but that's debatable. I'd honestly say it doesn't fit on this set very well. Also, Leech Seed could be slashed next to Spore as it helps significantly with Chansey as well

Moves:

• Give specific examples of things that 1karrows can ohko rather than just a general "things that resist facade"
• Make sure to change the moves here and not just in the set

Usage Tips:

• Double switches aren't guaranteed to setup the toxic orb. Remove it
• Also, I'd rephrase baton pass from a slower poke to slow baton pass (more concise)

Team Options:

• Specify that Giratina walls non-Knock Off varieties of this (or clarify that it does). Arguably, Gira could wall Chansey out of PP if it's just barely a 2hko and you have no boosting moves but it's unclear atm

Other Options:

• Don't mention Trick Pecha. It's a stupid gimmick that is not notably good. UC agrees with me on this.

Checks and Counters:

• I have a really hard time saying that Shedinja is the first check/counter to Gigas. Just because it walls a variety of this set in particular, it would be trivial to add something that kills Shedinja to it. If you're going to mention it, mention it later and write its caveats
• You said earlier that Knock Off lets it 2hko Gira, but now you're saying that Gira walls it. Which is it? Can Gira wall it if it's physically defensive? What about the setup variants of Gigas? How about Fur Coat Tina? Either elaborate on this or remove it imo
• Move MMX and MMY up lol. They are much more common than Unaware Cresselia in the meta...

Besides that, looks pretty good!

QC 2/3

Edit: 300th post!

 

[Uselesscrab]

Illusio implement the above please

 

[E4 Flint]

Hi

Overview:

• Remove last point on Shedinja, as that depends entirely on the set in question, and is not inherent to the mon

Set Poison Heal:

Set:

• Looks mostly good. I agree with Pikachuun about Fake Out, and would therefore move it to OO
• I also agree with Piccolo that Leech Seed can be slashed with Spore as it can help vs imposter, Shed, and in general can be a big nuisance

Set Comments - Moves:

• (Add) "Fake Out... first turn [as well as providing helpful chip damage that is higher priority than Extremespeed]"
• (Add) Knock Off also helps vs Imposters to get rid of common items like Eviolite, Lucky Punch or even a Plate. Meanwhile, Knock Off is of little threat to Gigas himself after being poisoned
• Spore/Leech Seed specifically help defeating Fur Coat, especially in conjunction with Knock Off
• Spore and Knock Off are a great combination to get rid of opposing mons with Safety Goggles
• (Add) "Thousand Arrows... Pokemon like Giratina [and can be a threat from Imposter on setup sets])"
• Make a special mention of how Facade completely negates the effect of burn, instead of just canceling it out. I.e. even when burned, the 1/2 damage effect is canceled out, and then Facade deals 140 damage.
• (Add here, or in Team Options)Sacred Fire is still good for Imposter if you simply have a ghost type on the team which can come in on the Gigas' coverage moves (e.g. PH Giratina)

Set Details:

• Mostly fine. Can append the last point that since Speed is not so important, maximizing HP can increase longetivity

Usage Tips:

• (Add Last point) Thousand Arrows/Sacred Fire can also be used against opponents that may have King's Shield to avoid contact, as well as being able to hit Proteans who turn into Steel type
• (If Leech added) Leech can be used on the switch especially to hit incoming Shedinja

Team Options:

• (Add) PH Giratina specifically can be used with all types of Gigas sets mentioned
• Teammates that can defeat bulky Ghosts are also appreciated as they and Gigas cover each other nicely
• Non-setup variants defintely would like a partner to take on opposing -ate Pokemon that can severly damage Gigas

Other Options:

• Fake Out can be moved here with Extremespeed, as well as the line of what it can offer over the latter i.e. faster prio than opposing Extremespeed, free turn of healing, and a way to activate the orb

Checks & Counters:

• Specifiy that PH Giratina with phazing specifically can handle most if not all of Gigas' sets
• Opposing PH Pokemon in general can check most non-setup Gigas versions
• Unaware walls must be wary of Spore as it can allow Facade damage to build up

That's all from me.

QC3/3

 

[Uselesscrab]

http://www.smogon.com/forums/members/illusio.233866/#profile-post-1847460

What are we going to do about this