Variations

[SpartanMalice]

I actually think Excadrill is the best Mold Breaker right now for a number of reasons: Typing, access to a speed doubling ability,

Probopass is indeed interesting - its typing is still horrible though despite handling Talonflame and co well (most of the best fire types - the Zards for example, get access to Earthquake / Focus Blast).

Heliolisk does seem to be a neutral weather abuser, as is Goodra, Stoutland, Excadrill etc. That being said, I do believe that despite not getting direct boosts unlike Water, Flying and Electric types move-wise, that grass pokemon do have a reason to use rain as their supplementary weather due to reduced damage from fire moves. As I mentioned - Victreebel, as well as Venusaur - both have access to Weather Ball (it can even be a semi useful tool for Venusaur to negate its damage via rain before mega evolving, but an offensive Venusaur should use its hidden ability and pave the way for a different mega on your team anyway)

Snaquaza mentioned that Claydol with bug Levitate is one that completely blocks Voltturn, which is interesting although... it's Claydol (How good it is depends on how this meta pans out anyway).

Tagging Pikachuun and Slayer95 to gain some insight as to how this can be coded. The IVs don't seem optimal due to the issues with Fairy and Normal - and despite comments I'd prefer not to ditch the weather abilities unless completely certain about coding issues involving them.

 

[Platina Kirin]

A Pokémon that might be interesting now is Florges. Before this meta Flower Veil only buffs grass types while Florges isn't even a Grass Type itself. Making Flower Veil work for Fairy types makes Florges itself immune to Status and Stat drops.

Florges @ Leftovers
Ability: Flower Veil (Fairy)
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
- Wish / Synthesis
- Protect / Calm Mind
- Moonblast
- Aromatherapy

Florges is now immune to stat drops and statusses. This makes Florgess a nice option to switch in on status setters. Florges can run a Cleric set making itself less vurnerable when using Wish. It can also run a Calm Mind set since it now can't be crippled by statusses nor can it have it's stats lowered.

 

[Platina Kirin]

I have thought some time about how the ''new'' type is chosen.
The best option I could think of, but might be a bit hard to code, is a ''5th move''.
This ''5th move'' is only shown in teambuilder, [Import / Export] and does not affect the real move set, the type of this move determines the type of the said ability.
The Pokémon does not need to know this move since it is just for the type.
For weather, the ability works for the ''weather dance'' that is put in the ''5th move slot''.

2 Examples:
Lets say you want a Tyranitar that is less weak to water:

Tyranitar @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Stone Edge
- Pursuit
- Superpower
- Crunch
- Sunny Day
It does NOT have Sunny Day in battle but Sand Stream now works as Drought.

You want a Hydreigon that is immune to Fairy-attacks:

Hydreigon @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Mild Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Dark Pulse
- Flash Cannon
- Superpower
- Moonblast
It does NOT have Moonblast in battle but levitate now grants it immunity to Fairy-attacks.

This method is in my opinion the best since it doesn't limit you to have certain IVs and Types like Fairy and Normal don't have an HP-variant. Neither does it limit you to using a Plate as item.

EDIT: Just saw Ghoul King posted something like this too, sorry if it feels I stole it but I didn't see it at first, my bad sorry . The reason I choose this way is because it is a solution to both the type and weather choice.

 

[I like donkeys]

Here's a Pokemon that i feel has some potential.

Motor Drive is finally useful on Rhyperior, being able to cover one of it's weaknesses, especially it's crippling 4x weakness to scald. Although obviously he can customize motor drive to tailor to what it he want's to check, whether it be fighting types or ground types. One perk Rhyperior has over other bulky Pokemon like Gastrodon is it's blistering 140 attack stat.

 

[Tarontos]

Here's a Pokemon that i feel has some potential.

Motor Drive is finally useful on Rhyperior, being able to cover one of it's weaknesses, especially it's crippling 4x weakness to scald. Although obviously he can customize motor drive to tailor to what it he want's to check, whether it be fighting types or ground types. One perk Rhyperior has over other bulky Pokemon like Gastrodon is it's blistering 140 attack stat.

I think you mean lightning rod. if it had motor drive it would be much more usefull, but the immunity to scald is still nice.

 

[SpartanMalice]

Just one issue I like donkeys, Rhyperior has access to Lightningrod, not Motor Drive so though the immunity is beneficial the SpA boost is insignificant (compared to the speed boost Motor Drive might give).

Edit: Nevermind, my post got pushed due to lag ._. and I didn't see Tarantos' post

 

[Akumeoy]

I actually think Excadrill is the best Mold Breaker right now for a number of reasons: Typing, access to a speed doubling ability,

Probopass is indeed interesting - its typing is still horrible though despite handling Talonflame and co well (most of the best fire types - the Zards for example, get access to Earthquake / Focus Blast).

Heliolisk does seem to be a neutral weather abuser, as is Goodra, Stoutland, Excadrill etc. That being said, I do believe that despite not getting direct boosts unlike Water, Flying and Electric types move-wise, that grass pokemon do have a reason to use rain as their supplementary weather due to reduced damage from fire moves. As I mentioned - Victreebel, as well as Venusaur - both have access to Weather Ball (it can even be a semi useful tool for Venusaur to negate its damage via rain before mega evolving, but an offensive Venusaur should use its hidden ability and pave the way for a different mega on your team anyway)

Snaquaza mentioned that Claydol with bug Levitate is one that completely blocks Voltturn, which is interesting although... it's Claydol (How good it is depends on how this meta pans out anyway).

Tagging Pikachuun and Slayer95 to gain some insight as to how this can be coded. The IVs don't seem optimal due to the issues with Fairy and Normal - and despite comments I'd prefer not to ditch the weather abilities unless completely certain about coding issues involving them.

This is a nitpick, but Excadrill might be the most viable Pokemon with access to Mold Breaker, but its Sand Rush is basically irrelevant to its viability as a Mold Breaker.

Beyond Claydol, other Ground-types with type immunities include Flygon, Marowak, Quagsire, Rhyperior, and Seismitoad. They all have other immunities that they would probably appreciate more, but if you would ever run Claydol to stop Volt-Turn, you could at least upgrade it to something, uh, better.

 

[SpartanMalice]

True, I'm just mentioning that Excadrill's viability overall may be quite high due to multiple niches: Mold Breaker, and access to its speed doubling abilities.

Claydol's nice is that it has access to Rapid Spin as well (+ a psychic resistance I guess), but outside of that, nothing.

I kind of prefer Mega Sceptile because it has a 4x volt switch resistance already, and u-turn immunity might benefit it somewhat - the incoming pokemon will also be threatened somewhat.

 

[Lcass4919]

True, I'm just mentioning that Excadrill's viability overall may be quite high due to multiple niches: Mold Breaker, and access to its speed doubling abilities.

Claydol's nice is that it has access to Rapid Spin as well (+ a psychic resistance I guess), but outside of that, nothing.

I kind of prefer Mega Sceptile because it has a 4x volt switch resistance already, and u-turn immunity might benefit it somewhat - the incoming pokemon will also be threatened somewhat.

or an ice immunity, which is something scept fears greatly. and resisting 4x priority is always nice for a base 145 speed poke. the thing about scept, is lightningrod is probably still good as lightningrod. lmao. since immunity to thunder wave is pretty big for a fast offensive poke.

 

[Ghoul King]

For Volt Switch/U-Turn immunity there's a few options.

In addition to Claydol there's Flygon for a Ground type with Levitate to turn into Bug immunity. Flygon is also better at captured enemy momentum, such as getting in a Defog if the enemy set hazards and then tried to attack-switch out, or just attacking before they can move because Flygon is fast.

Marowak and Rhydon/Rhyperior have already been covered as Ground types with Lightning Rod.

Seismitoad and Quagsire are both Ground types with Water Absorb, though honestly I doubt either of them is liable to go for the Volturn blocking.

Gastrodon is the only Ground type with Storm Drain.

The ability to horribly punish Scarf U-Turns by wasting their turn, reversing momentum, and possibly getting stat gains/healing out of it, looks pretty amazing, and a lot more stuff can do that than just these guys. These are just the ones that stop everything aside from Baton Pass and Parting Shot.

Giving Terrakion Bug Justified to punish U-Turn looks interesting/threatening to me, too.

 

[I like donkeys]

For Volt Switch/U-Turn immunity there's a few options.

In addition to Claydol there's Flygon for a Ground type with Levitate to turn into Bug immunity. Flygon is also better at captured enemy momentum, such as getting in a Defog if the enemy set hazards and then tried to attack-switch out, or just attacking before they can move because Flygon is fast.

Marowak and Rhydon/Rhyperior have already been covered as Ground types with Lightning Rod.

Seismitoad and Quagsire are both Ground types with Water Absorb, though honestly I doubt either of them is liable to go for the Volturn blocking.

Gastrodon is the only Ground type with Storm Drain.

The ability to horribly punish Scarf U-Turns by wasting their turn, reversing momentum, and possibly getting stat gains/healing out of it, looks pretty amazing, and a lot more stuff can do that than just these guys. These are just the ones that stop everything aside from Baton Pass and Parting Shot.

Giving Terrakion Bug Justified to punish U-Turn looks interesting/threatening to me, too.

That bit about Flygon and defog made me realise YOU CAN BLOCK DEFOG WITH FLYING IMMUNITIES. YES. Lightning rod absorbs defog when using electrify, and that's just changing defog's type to electric. So changing, say, levitate, to being immune to flying should make you immune to defog. The plethora of grass types (with sap sipper) can cover their flying weakness and also act as defog blockers. Since there is no mold-breaker defog then I can see hazard stacking and maybe rapid spin rising to popularity.

EDIT: Or use flying Bronzong to completely cock-block the latis, idk

 

[Manchamp]

Gimmick inbound.

Probopass @ Leftovers
Ability: Magnet Pull (Flying type)
Ev's: 252 HP/ some SpA/ some Defenses (idk)
- Rest ........./Power Gem /Flash Cannon
- Sleep Talk .... /Discharge
- Ancientpower ../Rock Polish
- Flash Cannon ../Dazzling Gleam

The first set (left) is the gimmicky one. Trap something that can't setup or 3HKO (banded brave bird Talonflame, Zapdos, banded dragon move salamence, mandibuzz, crobat, focusblast-less Tornadus Therian, more..) and then throw ancient powers at it and hope for a boost. Zapdos and Mandibuzz are the best to trap because it'll probly roost and takes the least damage from Ancientpower, so hopefully you'll get the most possible boosts. RestTalk for health.


The second set (right) is for reliability, because you know you'll get some boosts but there's no way to raise defenses and offenses. It could be a decent cleaner tho, if you strap on a life orb and max offense, it has
pretty good coverage and should outspeed everything at +6 speed.
Idk, it's probly dumb but it could be good...maybe...

 

[Akumeoy]

Gimmick inbound.

Probopass @ Leftovers
Ability: Magnet Pull (Flying type)
Ev's: 252 HP/ some SpA/ some Defenses (idk)
- Rest ........./Power Gem /Flash Cannon
- Sleep Talk .... /Discharge
- Ancientpower ../Rock Polish
- Flash Cannon ../Dazzling Gleam

The first set (left) is the gimmicky one. Trap something that can't setup or 3HKO (banded brave bird Talonflame, Zapdos, banded dragon move salamence, mandibuzz, crobat, focusblast-less Tornadus Therian, more..) and then throw ancient powers at it and hope for a boost. Zapdos and Mandibuzz are the best to trap because it'll probly roost and takes the least damage from Ancientpower, so hopefully you'll get the most possible boosts. RestTalk for health.


The second set (right) is for reliability, because you know you'll get some boosts but there's no way to raise defenses and offenses. It could be a decent cleaner tho, if you strap on a life orb and max offense, it has
pretty good coverage and should outspeed everything at +6 speed.
Idk, it's probly dumb but it could be good...maybe...

I think Magnezone/Magneton would be superior for the job, particularly considering that they can hit Flying-types much more reliably with a powerful STAB move; granted, they die to Fire!Gale Wings Talonflame where Probopass doesn't, and they don't boost, but otherwise they're just plain better at KOing Flying-types.

Given that Fairy-types often rely on Fire-type coverage to hit Steel-types, Probopass could actually conceivably run the Rock Polish set to trap Fairy-types and set up to +2 or +4 speed (something Magnezone can't do against Fire-toting fairies). 236 Speed investment lets it outpace Scarf Lati@s at +4 (196+ outspeeds Scarf Raikou at +4), and Chesto-Rest is probably its best bet for longevity (god, I never thought I would be recommending Chesto-Rest). Here's what I would run:

Probopass @ Chesto Berry
Ability: Magnet Pull (Fairy-type)
EVs: 20 HP / 252 SpA / 236 Spe
Modest Nature
- Rest
- Rock Polish
- Flash Cannon
- Earth Power / Discharge / Filler

This could probably work well in tandem with Mega Sableye, to which Fairy- and Fire-types are great checks (Probopass can probably take a non-EQ hit from the latter and retaliate) while Mega Sableye no-sells a lot of Fighting-types. Dragonite has a typing that is very complimentary to Probopass and would love Fairy-types to die so it can spam Outrage. I can't wrap my head around the possibilities once you factor in type immunities, but that's probably okay because they can just run a Fairy immunity if fairies bother them that much.

 

[Manchamp]

^ All great points Akumeoy , Thanks! I like the fairy-trapping Probo, especially cuz it doesn't care about Unaware Clefable and can set up speed and KO.

252+ SpA Probopass Flash Cannon vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Clefable: 218-258 (55.4 - 65.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ SpA Life Orb Probopass Flash Cannon vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Clefable: 198-237 (50.3 - 60.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

Food for thought.

Also, here's something. What's the most common multi-hit move? Icicle spear? Bullet seed? Rock blast? Idk but these could certainly be abused by Justified users. Think about it. If Cloyster were to become popular here, I would so run a Dragon/Flying and then switch to an IceJustified Lucario or something. Instant +5 attack boost, just keep Luc above 50%.

252 Atk Cloyster Icicle Spear (5 hits) vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Lucario: 110-135 (39.1 - 48%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock

Once you get the boosts, go crazy with priority and power STABS.

+5 252+ Atk Life Orb Lucario Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Cloyster: 230-272 (95.4 - 112.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

And yeah, Cloyster has 180 Defense.

But, I feel that for this reason alone Cloyster won't be a very common mom. But that doesn't mean Mamoswine or breloom, MegaHera, whatever.., won't still be good and this strategy could have some use.

 

[I like donkeys]

I think Magnezone/Magneton would be superior for the job, particularly considering that they can hit Flying-types much more reliably with a powerful STAB move; granted, they die to Fire!Gale Wings Talonflame where Probopass doesn't, and they don't boost, but otherwise they're just plain better at KOing Flying-types.

Given that Fairy-types often rely on Fire-type coverage to hit Steel-types, Probopass could actually conceivably run the Rock Polish set to trap Fairy-types and set up to +2 or +4 speed (something Magnezone can't do against Fire-toting fairies). 236 Speed investment lets it outpace Scarf Lati@s at +4 (196+ outspeeds Scarf Raikou at +4), and Chesto-Rest is probably its best bet for longevity (god, I never thought I would be recommending Chesto-Rest). Here's what I would run:

Probopass @ Chesto Berry
Ability: Magnet Pull (Fairy-type)
EVs: 20 HP / 252 SpA / 236 Spe
Modest Nature
- Rest
- Rock Polish
- Flash Cannon
- Earth Power / Discharge / Filler

This could probably work well in tandem with Mega Sableye, to which Fairy- and Fire-types are great checks (Probopass can probably take a non-EQ hit from the latter and retaliate) while Mega Sableye no-sells a lot of Fighting-types. Dragonite has a typing that is very complimentary to Probopass and would love Fairy-types to die so it can spam Outrage. I can't wrap my head around the possibilities once you factor in type immunities, but that's probably okay because they can just run a Fairy immunity if fairies bother them that much.

If you want to trap fairy types, why not just use Magnezone? Probopass can trap Clefable effectively, but cannot hope to trap Sylveon (HP Ground/Fighting), Mega Gardevoir (Focus Blast), Mega Altaria (EQ), Azumarill (waterfall/superpower), ect. If you wanna trap fairies, you may as well use Magnezone so you can also threaten Sylveon and Azumarill, and Mega Gardevoir/Altaria if scarfed. Gothitelle can trap and remove Clefable with little effort, but can also trap, well, anything else really, since shadow-tag isn't restricted to a single type.

TL;DR Don't use Probopass for it is complete ass (hehe that rhymed)

 

[Akumeoy]

^ All great points Akumeoy , Thanks! I like the fairy-trapping Probo, especially cuz it doesn't care about Unaware Clefable and can set up speed and KO.

252+ SpA Probopass Flash Cannon vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Clefable: 218-258 (55.4 - 65.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ SpA Life Orb Probopass Flash Cannon vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Clefable: 198-237 (50.3 - 60.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

Food for thought.

Also, here's something. What's the most common multi-hit move? Icicle spear? Bullet seed? Rock blast? Idk but these could certainly be abused by Justified users. Think about it. If Cloyster were to become popular here, I would so run a Dragon/Flying and then switch to an IceJustified Lucario or something. Instant +5 attack boost, just keep Luc above 50%.

252 Atk Cloyster Icicle Spear (5 hits) vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Lucario: 110-135 (39.1 - 48%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock

Once you get the boosts, go crazy with priority and power STABS.

+5 252+ Atk Life Orb Lucario Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Cloyster: 230-272 (95.4 - 112.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

And yeah, Cloyster has 180 Defense.

But, I feel that for this reason alone Cloyster won't be a very common mom. But that doesn't mean Mamoswine or breloom, MegaHera, whatever.., won't still be good and this strategy could have some use.

I wouldn't worry about Cloyster. It's not viable in OU, and the proliferation of Ice/Water/Rock immunities does not help it here at all. Mega Heracross and Breloom are viable in OU, but not terribly common, and both are handled MUCH better by type immunities than by trying to bait a Justified activation. Mamoswine is more common, but I'd still rather just run an immunity.

One thing that DOES occur to me, however, is that with more type immunities flying about, Dragon spam might actually be viable again. Who needs Magneton and Magnezone when Hydreigon, Lati@s, Flygon, Goodra, and Mega Sceptile can all run Ice/Dragon/Fairy immunities? Not that they won't all enjoy some level of Steel support anyways, but you get some more flexibility in that department.

If you want to trap fairy types, why not just use Magnezone? Probopass can trap Clefable effectively, but cannot hope to trap Sylveon (HP Ground/Fighting), Mega Gardevoir (Focus Blast), Mega Altaria (EQ), Azumarill (waterfall/superpower), ect. If you wanna trap fairies, you may as well use Magnezone so you can also threaten Sylveon and Azumarill, and Mega Gardevoir/Altaria if scarfed. Gothitelle can trap and remove Clefable with little effort, but can also trap, well, anything else really, since shadow-tag isn't restricted to a single type.

TL;DR Don't use Probopass for it is complete ass (hehe that rhymed)

Point taken. God, I wish Probopass wasn't saddled with that god-awful Rock typing...

 

[SpartanMalice]

Lcass' post reminded me of how useful a thunder-wave immunity can be. What do you guys think can abuse it other than Levitate Gengar, Azelf and the Lati twins?

 

[Akumeoy]

Lcass' post reminded me of how useful a thunder-wave immunity can be. What do you guys think can abuse it other than Levitate Gengar, Azelf and the Lati twins?

Vaporeon and Jellicent stick out as mons that would love an Electric immunity. If we're talking about offensive 'mons that don't want to be paralyzed, Toxicroak wouldn't mind, but it's up in the air as to what its real niche will be. Cresselia and Heatran are both much better off carrying immunities to one of their weaknesses than a Twave immunity, except in really niche situations. Mega Sceptile likes it, of course, but it's already been mentioned, so.

 

[Manchamp]

Vaporeon and Jellicent stick out as mons that would love an Electric immunity. If we're talking about offensive 'mons that don't want to be paralyzed, Toxicroak wouldn't mind, but

I don't think Dry skin can be changed, as it isn't listed on the main list. I think because there are two types being dealt with, like Thick Fat, and the changing of those types is too complicated, right? As much as I want a Snorlax that resists Fighting and Dragon, I think it's either too difficult to implement or too OP but someone can correct me on that. If the above Snorlax is legal please let me know

Jellicent gets his water absorb buffed handsomely. I think a Dark Immunity is the number one option, letting it be its evil self without fear of knock off, pursuit, crunch.. Or opt for a grass immunity to benefit from once-pesky gigs drains and leech seeds.

I would prefer to run a dragon immunity on my Lati@s, to let it switch in and kill garchomps, dragonites, other lati@s, etc.

Oh and also about the Stealth rock debate, I saw the point that "since ground types don't absorb spikes, rock immunities shouldn't absorb stealth rock". But what about a Rock-Type Water Absorb, where the ability literally absorbs rock type damage. I could see it making sense for only Rock-Type Volt Absorb and Water Absorb to remove stealth rock and gain health. It gives that type+ability a great niche, and it, well, makes sense, giving the definition of the abilities. I don't think any other ability should remove stealth rock, and I would also support Rock-type Sap Sipper boosting attack and taking no damage on a SR switchin.

 

[Mr155551]

Forgot to mention but jynx can use dry skin to switch into fire types safely not that you would use jynx as it's physical defense is awful

 

[Snaquaza]

Most things have been mentioned by now, but another Pokemon that seems interesting is Gogoat. Although it's quite bad right now, due to its unimpressive physical bulk before a boost and bad typing, it can now partly fix its bad typing by changing Sap Sipper to a different immunity. Whether it's Ice, Fire, Flying or even Poison to be immune to Toxic, it has a lot of ways to get past things that would normally check it, and with its high special bulk and reliable recovery, it may become a viable slow setup 'mon here.

Thundurus-Therian may also be cool. It'd love a Rock-immunity, which would give it a great niche over its counterpart Thundurus-Incarnate. The ability to pivot in on Rock-types, and most importantly be immune to hazards help it a lot, while it is easily able to threaten the opponent when it gets in with 145 Special Attack, Focus Blast, Volt Switch, Grass Knot and other kinds of coverage. While its 101 Speed is not great, it is enough to outspeed annoying Pokemon at the base 100 line, especially Manaphy.

Just some things that I could think of, as most have been mentioned already. Can't wait to play this!

 

[I like donkeys]

How will hazards fair in this meta? I'm under the impression most people think a rock immunity would make you immune to stealth rock (which makes sense). Probably because levitate makes you immune to spikes, so the same should happen with rocks. The problem I see is that levitate also makes you immune to toxic spikes and sticky web - which are poison/bug moves not ground moves. So an ability that makes you immune to solely ground type moves, also makes you immune to some moves of other types. It's inconsistent. If we get, say, volt absorb to absorb ground moves, should it also absorb toxic spikes and sticky web? I guess my point is how do we know how rock immunities will affect stealth rock?

I suppose you could argue that levitate is an odd exception, since every other ability that grants immunities only makes you immune those types (flash fire doesn't make you immune to anything other than fire moves). But levitate isn't the only exception, how do you explain thunder wave and hypnosis/sing/glare? Ground types are immune to thunder wave because it's an electric move, but not paralysis since glare can paralyze ground types, so how can hypnosis put dark types to sleep and sing/glare put ghost types to sleep or paralyzed? It makes no sense to me.

 

[Ghoul King]

How will hazards fair in this meta? I'm under the impression most people think a rock immunity would make you immune to stealth rock (which makes sense). Probably because levitate makes you immune to spikes, so the same should happen with rocks. The problem I see is that levitate also makes you immune to toxic spikes and sticky web - which are poison/bug moves not ground moves. So an ability that makes you immune to solely ground type moves, also makes you immune to some moves of other types. It's inconsistent. If we get, say, volt absorb to absorb ground moves, should it also absorb toxic spikes and sticky web? I guess my point is how do we know how rock immunities will affect stealth rock?

I suppose you could argue that levitate is an odd exception, since every other ability that grants immunities only makes you immune those types (flash fire doesn't make you immune to anything other than fire moves). But levitate isn't the only exception, how do you explain thunder wave and hypnosis/sing/glare? Ground types are immune to thunder wave because it's an electric move, but not paralysis since glare can paralyze ground types, so how can hypnosis put dark types to sleep and sing/glare put ghost types to sleep or paralyzed? It makes no sense to me.

Thunder Wave is the special snowflake exception of being a (the) Status move that cares about type-based immunities. I don't see what the relevancy is to your point, honestly.

In the case of Stealth Rock, Stealth Rock uses type interactions per se to determine damage. Spikes, Toxic Spikes, and Sticky Web don't. An argument can be made either way as to whether Stealth Rock "should" or "shouldn't" be affected by Abilities providing Rock immunity, because there's similar examples out there that suggest type immunity Abilities shouldn't interact with Stealth Rock, but there's not anything that's directly comparable to say that a certain way of playing out is definitely the correct way/the incorrect way.

 

[Lcass4919]

How will hazards fair in this meta? I'm under the impression most people think a rock immunity would make you immune to stealth rock (which makes sense). Probably because levitate makes you immune to spikes, so the same should happen with rocks. The problem I see is that levitate also makes you immune to toxic spikes and sticky web - which are poison/bug moves not ground moves. So an ability that makes you immune to solely ground type moves, also makes you immune to some moves of other types. It's inconsistent. If we get, say, volt absorb to absorb ground moves, should it also absorb toxic spikes and sticky web? I guess my point is how do we know how rock immunities will affect stealth rock?

I suppose you could argue that levitate is an odd exception, since every other ability that grants immunities only makes you immune those types (flash fire doesn't make you immune to anything other than fire moves). But levitate isn't the only exception, how do you explain thunder wave and hypnosis/sing/glare? Ground types are immune to thunder wave because it's an electric move, but not paralysis since glare can paralyze ground types, so how can hypnosis put dark types to sleep and sing/glare put ghost types to sleep or paralyzed? It makes no sense to me.

stealth rock is type based, so likely an immunity to rock WOULD prevent hazard damage, because although theres no evidence showing if immunities work on it, there IS evidence that shows that abilities in general come to affect how SR works damage wise (magic guard) BUT, i dont think thats a strong enough reason. but at the same time, type immunities have been proven to affect stuff like leech seed, will o wisp, and other outside effects, so im going to say "it should"

the other three id argue that its a levitate exclusive, since all three(barring spikes) don't follow type mechanics when dealing with levitate. but even then id bunch spikes with them just due to consistancy and that its likely to follow the same formula should levitates immunity change. so if levitate made you immune to fire...its safe to assume its spikes, tspikes, and sticky web immunity would remain. HOWEVER, at the same time, its possible levitate follows flying types IMMUNITIES rather then simply avoiding ground moves, meaning that since flying type is naturally immune to those, it would be immune to everything of said type(which nothing really follows this logic other then flying). i think the latter could be pretty cool. the description says "immunity to ground moves" but honestly, it seems more like "immunity to flying immunities". kinda a weird change, but imo, it makes more sense then "levitate grants immunity to grass plus spikes, tspikes, and sticky web and is reversed by gravity" <-gravity, come to think about it, that actually solidifies my point. gravity negates levitate. meaning that either fire types can hit through levitate with gravity(kek) or levitate will be the only one based on type immunities in general (so for example, normal type levitate would be immune to ghost, rather then normal, while ghost would pack 2 immunities to normal, and fighting). it also makes sense because levitate actually doesn't HAVE any upsides when "immunizing" like the others do, so this would make it more then a "inferior sapping move" while still being a logical change to make.

TLDR: make levitate based around a "types" immunities (ghost levitate makes you immune to normal and fighting but NOT ghost, grass makes you immune to powder based moves+leech seed but NOT grass, etc) rather then simply the type chosen itself.

 

[SpartanMalice]

I was going through abilities.js and I found a few things

code

"levitate": {
desc: "This Pokemon is immune to Ground. Gravity, Ingrain, Smack Down, Thousand Arrows, and Iron Ball nullify the immunity.",
shortDesc: "This Pokemon is immune to Ground; Gravity/Ingrain/Smack Down/Iron Ball nullify it.",
onImmunity: function (type) {
if (type === 'Ground') return false;
},
id: "levitate",
name: "Levitate",
rating: 3.5,
num: 26

"waterabsorb": {
desc: "This Pokemon is immune to Water-type moves and restores 1/4 of its maximum HP, rounded down, when hit by a Water-type move.",
shortDesc: "This Pokemon heals 1/4 of its max HP when hit by Water moves; Water immunity.",
onTryHit: function (target, source, move) {
if (target !== source && move.type === 'Water') {
if (!this.heal(target.maxhp / 4)) {
this.add('-immune', target, '[msg]', '[from] ability: Water Absorb');
}
return null;
}
},
id: "waterabsorb",
name: "Water Absorb",
rating: 3.5,
num: 11

"sapsipper": {
desc: "This Pokemon is immune to Grass-type moves and raises its Attack by 1 stage when hit by a Grass-type move.",
shortDesc: "This Pokemon's Attack is raised 1 stage if hit by a Grass move; Grass immunity.",
onTryHit: function (target, source, move) {
if (target !== source && move.type === 'Grass') {
if (!this.boost({atk:1})) {
this.add('-immune', target, '[msg]', '[from] ability: Sap Sipper');
}
return null;
}
},
onAllyTryHitSide: function (target, source, move) {
if (target === this.effectData.target || target.side !== source.side) return;
if (move.type === 'Grass') {
this.boost({atk:1}, this.effectData.target);
}
},
id: "sapsipper",
name: "Sap Sipper",
rating: 3.5,
num: 157

"lightningrod": {
desc: "This Pokemon is immune to Electric-type moves and raises its Special Attack by 1 stage when hit by an Electric-type move. If this Pokemon is not the target of a single-target Electric-type move used by another Pokemon, this Pokemon redirects that move to itself if it is within the range of that move.",
shortDesc: "This Pokemon draws Electric moves to itself to raise Sp. Atk by 1; Electric immunity.",
onTryHit: function (target, source, move) {
if (target !== source && move.type === 'Electric') {
if (!this.boost({spa:1})) {
this.add('-immune', target, '[msg]', '[from] ability: Lightning Rod');
}
return null;
}
},
onAnyRedirectTargetPriority: 1,
onAnyRedirectTarget: function (target, source, source2, move) {
if (move.type !== 'Electric' || move.id in {firepledge:1, grasspledge:1, waterpledge:1}) return;
if (this.validTarget(this.effectData.target, source, move.target)) {
return this.effectData.target;
}
},
id: "lightningrod",
name: "Lightning Rod",
rating: 3.5,
num: 32
},

"motordrive": {
desc: "This Pokemon is immune to Electric-type moves and raises its Speed by 1 stage when hit by an Electric-type move.",
shortDesc: "This Pokemon's Speed is raised 1 stage if hit by an Electric move; Electric immunity.",
onTryHit: function (target, source, move) {
if (target !== source && move.type === 'Electric') {
if (!this.boost({spe:1})) {
this.add('-immune', target, '[msg]', '[from] ability: Motor Drive');
}
return null;
}
},
id: "motordrive",
name: "Motor Drive",
rating: 3,
num: 78
},

So as you can see each ability's coding is slightly different. From what I can assume, the effect of the boost/healing for the absorbing abilities uses the function onTryHit and explicitly requires a target, a source and a move - so if we are to code this with minimal changes to game mechanics, ideally the boost shouldn't be applied. But this is just an assumption by us that it would not work. What I suggest is that someone try to clone all these abilities, change it to reflect rock type and such - and change only that part of the code, to see how the effect works out as it would have been intended.

Also, Levitate's function is pretty similar to Water Absorb and such so Levitate in itself is type based - but I'm assuming the grounded property technically isn't, but chooses to interact with Levitate somehow. It's not mentioned in abilities, but the property is present in moves.js for Sticky Web, Spikes etc. So the issue is with them per se, not Levitate. At least that's what I can make of it.