Project OU Theorymon

[YouAreOutOfMy5]

Azelf + Fairy typing and Mold Breaker: Azelf is already a decent suicide lead in this meta. Unfortunately, I feel like Azelf needed only one of these buffs to be successful. Since its introduction into XY, every Psychic type has dreamt to become Fairy typing and Azelf dreams are warranted (the Sinnoh lake trio are depicted as fairies). Couple one of the best defensive typings in the game with an ability to inhibit most defensive mons that rely on their abilities and render them less effective and you got yourself an OP lead and wallbreaker. Low chance of getting my vote.

Seismitoad + Drizzle: As I've had more time to look over this slate, I'm starting to really like this submission. Isa Simple brought up a great idea to use both Politoad and Seismitoad on the same team. I think this would be Seismitoad's best implementation. One thing we tend to forget is while we give non-mega Pokemon new abilities, they retain their old abilties as well. Run Water Absorb or Swift Swim during rain set up by Politoad while Keldeo switches in, and smack it with an Earthquake. This can lead to some crazy mindgames. On a side note, there's only one other Drizzle user in the whole game and we can't use it in OU. It would be nice to see an alternate user of Drizzle rather than the tried and true original rain toad. Rain teams need more variety. Good chance to get my vote.

Sceptile + Seed Flare: Yes! Thank you Jaruda for finding a great buff for the king of the forest! I've been trying for months now to seek out the proper buff for this magnificent Pokemon! Strong STAB and spammable, yet only has 8 total PP and has a chance to miss more than Leaf Storm. Seed Flare makes sense flavor-wise due to the seeds growing from Sceptile's back and even more so on Mega Sceptile's. As for it being a signature move, I do not see the problem with allowing the move to have more distribution. Moves such as Parting shot (Pangoro line) and Thousand Arrows (Zygard line?) have already made it through the slates and have won. Besides, many signature moves throughout the years have become more inclusive. In addition, the secondary effect of this move does not make it the end-all be-all wallbreaker. The opponent can still switch out while eliminating the secondary effect unlike the best move in the game: Scald. This is my favorite submission and has the best chance for my vote.

Solrock + Chlorophyll and Flare Blitz: I have the opposite opinion on this submission when compared to my opinion on Azelf. This poor Pokemon needs more buffs than just two to make it in OU. Solrock + Chlorophyll + Flare Blitz + Fairy typing (Replacing Psychic) + Play Rough might actually be cool, as we have seen the effectiveness of fairy, rock and fire coverage in play before. Maybe it can be in another slate if it wins this one. It would be reminiscent of how M-Absol received its Dark/Fairy typing and parting shot buffs. All things considered though, another low chance of getting my vote.

 

[GlassVeins]

Gonna keep this short cause i'm tired:
I don't mean to insult, but in my oppinion it would take pure power, wonder guard, or something really dramatic to make Solrock viable in OU. (did the calcs and found that even with either of those two buffs he'd still be fairly unimpressive. I mean, with PP, he can still barely do more than 60% to half the meta lol. but I digress) Even with the two buffs on the slate he'd still be as niche as shedninja.

Azelf+fairy would be really awesome cause he'd be able to take down most stall pretty well on his own. howeverI feel like this could be the next protean hydregion or moxievile.

Seismitoad+drizzle could be a huge boost to rain as another viable user. Unlike poli, he's got a decent offensive presence, and other abilities to keep your opponent guessing.

Sceptile + seed flare: AMAZING! your opponents would have to be really careful playing around this thing, cause it could turn your wall into a defensive liability for another special type sweeper, or m-sceptile's other moves. plus, there's not that pesky s.atk drop from leaf storm. well done

 

[Lemon Ginger]

Azelf + Fairy typing and Mold Breaker: This is certainly a huge improvement for azelf, but it's not like it was garbage to begin with. I'm afraid that introducing this might be too much. Azelf already worked very well as a suicide lead, with it's only real flaws being it's weakness to pursuit/u-turn (sure it has mediocre bulk, but that hardly matters on a lead/cleaner). Well, guess what, its new typing totally alleviates those weakness, leaving it venerable to offensive types found rarely in OU outside of Mvenu and scizor. Offensive sets have strong coverage in fairy/fire/grass/electric/ghost/psychic and even bug for hoopa-u, leaving little space for switchins. A nasty plot set practically OHKOs the meta, with even unaware pokemon helpless thanks to moldbreaker. It can go mixed or even physical, since 125/125 offenses are good. Knock and U-turn in combination with it's speed mean that a very select few pokemon can ouspeed and OHKO without getting u-turned on or seriously dented. The few that can, i.e. lopunny, talon, Maero, all share similar checks. I just feel that his change makes azelf far too effective at its current role in OU, as well as greatly enhancing its ability as a sweeper thanks to a great defensive typing. The flavor is definitely there, but maybe if this were uxie/mespirit instead it wouldn't be too much. Mega diancie has shown how great a fast fairy with coverage is, and azelf take it even further.


Seismitoad + Drizzle: I'm against this one on a basic principle. It's not so much that this is a buff to toad, but rather that it is a buff to rain. It takes the current OU drizzler in politoed and makes it almost entirely obsolete. This new seismitoad compresses the roles of drizzler, rock setter and electric check all into on slot, which is HUGE for rain. While we're at it, let's get rid of ninetales by just giving sun a water/grass/fire/rock check that can also set sun...oh camerupt, that's right.

Edit: as akumeoy points out below, the newly inducted mega camerupt does not set sun. I'm mostly just bitter about how much of a total hardstop to rain it is.

Sceptile + Seed Flare: This one is actually really nice. While seed flare is broken on skymin,a mon with less SpA than mega scept, that is due wholly to serene grace. In sceptile's case seed flare give it a strong grass stab that it can use without fear of being forced out due to stat drop on leaf storm. The potential SpD drop is really just a bonus, that serves to dissuade shaky checks from switching in and being killed by dragon pulse/FB the next turn. A set of seedflare/DP/FB/hp-fire or sub could really do a number on offense, especially if you sneak it in on a predicted u-turn. Sadly, this thing still has trouble mega evolving, and will only ever do so after a clean switch. It would really like lightning rod on its pre mega form, but c'est la vie. It is still very susceptible to revenge kills from common OU mons like talon or weavile, and as such would love a stab pivoting move like mega beedrill, but alas I think it is set to serve as a special wall breaker/cleaner. Gets my vote.

Solrock + Chlorophyll and Flare Blitz: I think it's been shown above by multiple people that this is really in need of more drastic changes to see any kind of improvement, so I'm not really going to bother commenting further.

 

[Akumeoy]

Seismitoad + Drizzle: I'm against this one on a basic principle. It's not so much that this is a buff to toad, but rather that it is a buff to rain. It takes the current OU drizzler in politoed and makes it almost entirely obsolete. This new seismitoad compresses the roles of drizzler, rock setter and electric check all into on slot, which is HUGE for rain. While we're at it, let's get rid of ninetales by just giving sun a water/grass/fire/rock check that can also set sun...oh camerupt, that's right.

Nitpick: Mega Camerupt's sun goes away once it switches out, so it can't actually set sun for sun teams. It's slightly silly as a stand-alone 'mon, though.

 

[Jaroda]

Sceptile + Seed Flare: This one is actually really nice. While seed flare is broken on skymin,a mon with less SpA than mega scept, that is due wholly to serene grace. In sceptile's case seed flare give it a strong grass stab that it can use without fear of being forced out due to stat drop on leaf storm. The potential SpD drop is really just a bonus, that serves to dissuade shaky checks from switching in and being killed by dragon pulse/FB the next turn. A set of seedflare/DP/FB/hp-fire or sub could really do a number on offense, especially if you sneak it in on a predicted u-turn. Sadly, this thing still has trouble mega evolving, and will only ever do so after a clean switch. It would really like lightning rod on its pre mega form, but c'est la vie. It is still very susceptible to revenge kills from common OU mons like talon or weavile, and as such would love a stab pivoting move like mega beedrill, but alas I think it is set to serve as a special wall breaker/cleaner. Gets my vote.

Sceptile actually has one of the easiest times megavolving due to its 120 base speed and lack of SR weakness. It easily sits in front of tons of common mon like Latios, Raikou, Starmie, Keldeo, Rotom-W, Hippo, Garchomp, etc. It doesn't need to run Protect like Diancie or Beedrill. It's actually pretty good to lead with as common rock setters like Garchomp and Hippo are immediately forced out.

 

[nameless90]

This leads me to say that even with this buff, regular Sceptile has no real niche for being used in OU having Serperior as a non-Mega fast attacker. Sceptile has a very good speed tier of 120 and workable SpA (with the aid of Life Orb) coupled with Seed Flare but Unburden is "quite wasted" since most of the time it hasn't the bulk to receive a Knock Off while remaining still alive to use it. Lightning Rod is quite useful paired with the speed tier 145 (or 120 in the first turn) because (priority) Thunder Wave can't stop your sweep while boosting your offensive presence when cleaning.

Serperior sits on a lower speed tier (113) which is already valuable and after a turn of set-up has a better damage output not to mention a lower opportunity cost for not being a Mega. The only difference between Mega Sceptile over Serperior is that nice Electric immunity which boost the SpA and the addition of Seed Flare replacing Leaf Storm makes Lightning Rod even better with the lack of drops in the SpA which force to switch out it.

 

[Patolegend!]

This leads me to say that even with this buff, regular Sceptile has no real niche for being used in OU having Serperior as a non-Mega fast attacker. Sceptile has a very good speed tier of 120 and workable SpA (with the aid of Life Orb) coupled with Seed Flare but Unburden is "quite wasted" since most of the time it hasn't the bulk to receive a Knock Off while remaining still alive to use it. Lightning Rod is quite useful paired with the speed tier 145 (or 120 in the first turn) because (priority) Thunder Wave can't stop your sweep while boosting your offensive presence when cleaning.

Serperior sits on a lower speed tier (113) which is already valuable and after a turn of set-up has a better damage output not to mention a lower opportunity cost for not being a Mega. The only difference between Mega Sceptile over Serperior is that nice Electric immunity which boost the SpA and the addition of Seed Flare replacing Leaf Storm makes Lightning Rod even better with the lack of drops in the SpA which force to switch out it.

Let's not forget about the Dragon typing and the benefits that come with that, as well as better unboosted power, and an even better Speed tier. Cos fuck Lopunny, frankly.

I'll be back in a bit to post my thoughts on the slate, but I'm pretty happy that its well balanced.

For now, I just wanna leave this for those saying that Solrock completely sucks:

252+ Atk Life Orb Solrock Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mew in Sun: 226-266 (55.9 - 65.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

It hits pretty hard with FB, and kills fat toed with explosion:

252+ Atk Life Orb Solrock Explosion vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Politoed: 396-467 (103.3 - 121.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO

It could work. It won't be magnificent, but it could work.

 

[Lemon Ginger]

Sceptile actually has one of the easiest times megavolving due to its 120 base speed and lack of SR weakness. It easily sits in front of tons of common mon like Latios, Raikou, Starmie, Keldeo, Rotom-W, Hippo, Garchomp, etc. It doesn't need to run Protect like Diancie or Beedrill. It's actually pretty good to lead with as common rock setters like Garchomp and Hippo are immediately forced out.

Jaroda, sure once it's in it outspeeds nearly everything, but unevolved sceptile is not something that is happily switched in, thanks to its poor bulk. Perhaps once megad it can come in on a lot more thanks to dragon typing, but you basically have to send it in clean after a kill or get it volturned in to get the chance to mega. It would have so much more utility with lightning rod in its baseform as well, being able to switch in on twave without fear.

The issue with solrock is that you have to use adamant, at which point you can't switch in on many fire attacks, as shown by someone earlier. If you try to run this strong, but not too strong sweeper role, you are better off using aerodactyl, who gets firefang, or even fire blast if you're dying for fire coverage, while having recovery, a better typing and blazing speed in and out of sun.

 

[nameless90]

Let's not forget about the Dragon typing and the benefits that come with that, as well as better unboosted power, and an even better Speed tier. Cos fuck Lopunny, frankly.

The Dragon typing enables the Hoenn starter to hit dragons harder with Dragon Pulse but the redeeming factors are its blazing speed and Lightning Rod; otherwise Sceptile should be hopelessly outclassed by Serperior. Serperior doesn't have the STAB on Dragon Pulse but being a late game cleaner it isn't supposed to OHKO a pokemon from full health often.

For now, I just wanna leave this for those saying that Solrock completely sucks:
252+ Atk Life Orb Solrock Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mew in Sun: 226-266 (55.9 - 65.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
It hits pretty hard with FB, and kills fat toed with explosion:
252+ Atk Life Orb Solrock Explosion vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Politoed: 396-467 (103.3 - 121.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
It could work. It won't be magnificent, but it could work.

Sorry, but Solrock is just plain bad. In the first case, Solrock is using non-STAB Flare Blitz (enhanced with Life Orb) which puts a timer on its durability and 70/95/65 is already a middling bulk with a meager defensive typing, not to mention you should run an Adamant nature to hit reasonably hard whereas others weather attackers run a Jolly nature to outspeed something outside their weather.
In the second case, Solrock OHKOes Politoed with Explosion: ok, you use your sun attacker to OHKO an opposite weather setter. Are there any other relevant kills you accomplish?

 

[Jaroda]

Jaroda, sure once it's in it outspeeds nearly everything, but unevolved sceptile is not something that is happily switched in, thanks to its poor bulk. Perhaps once megad it can come in on a lot more thanks to dragon typing, but you basically have to send it in clean after a kill or get it volturned in to get the chance to mega. It would have so much more utility with lightning rod in its baseform as well, being able to switch in on twave without fear.

I didn't say it has an easy time switching in, I said it has an easy time megavolving because it forces switches. Diancie has an easier time switching in in general when it has a Dragon immunity, but it does not have an easy time megavolving because it only has 50 speed the first turn without Protect. Catch my drift?

 

[Patolegend!]

Hi Guys, I just want to address a couple of points that I feel have been left hanging since the start of the slate, just to clear up any confusion moving forward.

Before I discuss this slate, I just really needa ask this?

Are we still discussing the slate in regards to the standard OU meta, or are we allowed to talk about the Theorymon meta?

Honestly if we aren't considering the theorymon meta instead of the standard OU meta at this point, I'd be very surprised. At this point it's fairly safe to say that the two are not the same and are growing more and more different each passing slate, yet a lot of the submissions still seem to be looking more like a wish list for standard OU rather than something that might do well in the meta it's intended for. Not discussing this project for what it is, an Other Metagame, and pretending that it's directly linked to OU is only hurting the project at this point.

We've been discussing this recently, and due to the success of the project so far, we're kinda caught in the middle ground between are we gonna stay true to the original project or are we an Other Metagame, and it's kinda confusing because the elephant in the room is how the slate might affect the "meta" that we've created, yet we can't discuss it. What we've decided is the following:

1) We'll stay true to the original project. This thread is for discussing how the slate will impact the current OU metagame, and will be where the votes are held, and where the project is generally run.

2) We want to move the discussion for the possible impact of the slate on our OU Theorymon metagame over to Isa Simple's Other Metagame thread; this will help to boost the activity other there, and should allow for two different angles of discussion on the same slate.

So basically, same procedure as usual here, with discussion on the slate and how it'd mix with other Theorymons, cores, etc in the other thread.

Also I'd like to additionally comment that there's a big inconsistency in allowing multiple changes right now since somehow Azelf is allowed this option, a mon that although it is in B rating has a much higher usage statistic and has great stats, when somehow there's only one change to mons like Whiscash who are flat out terrible.

Just to clarify this, we're happy with multiple (2) changes, as long as it gives something extra to the meta and the submission; I would happily have accepted another COMPLEMENTARY boost to Whiscash, but only one came with the submission. I do agree though, in hindsight, that Azelf did slip the net in the sense of its high viability ranking, but lets be honest, we're all human, and the submission was cool, creative, and different.

Also I'm just not enjoying this concept of "make a theorymon that counters the metagame", first it was Regirock and now it's this Azelf. I'd rather we focus on making mons who are improved as a general concept who could maybe stay relevant with the changes for future metas instead of just being used to weaken one specific threat who may become irrelevant later or banned.

I've mentioned this before, but if you're looking to make a change to give something a niche in the meta, or make it viable, then either you're looking to do the following:
a) Break through checks/obstacles that weren't broken through before (approaching from an offensive perspective)
b) Check/Counter things that weren't easy to check/counter before (defensive perspective)
c) Contribute something to a strategy to make it more effective (support perspective)

Either way, you're reacting to the meta, rather than just saying "tell you what, if X has that 120 BP move/ability/typing, then it's just the same as Y, so it's viable".

The way the meta changes will mean the submissions shouldn't get stale either.

Overall, I'm skeptical and just generally not feeling it. I'm kinda tired of new toys for weather -- when are we gonna get new Trick Room toys? How about a good Gravity abuser? Sticky Webbers? There are other non-standard playstyles too, you know!

We're bound by the submissions that we get, while now and again throwing in some of our own. What do you think a good Gravity or Sticky Web user would be? We're always looking for more submissions, the more the merrier!

I'm also less than enthralled about extending signature moves to random Pokemon -- it feels wrong. I think what I really want to see for Sceptile, more than a cool Grass STAB, is some kind of cool utility move that it can use. That would save it from being a one-dimensional Special Attacker, at least.

As proved by past cases (Thousand Waves Sandslash, among others) we don't mind extending signature moves to the right 'mons, as long as it's not done willy-nilly; if it improves the submission, whether it be flavor or effectiveness, then we can take it into consideration.

If I've missed anything out, or anyone has any questions about the admin side of the project, then feel free to PM us on the council, we'll be happy to help!

 

[INSANE CARZY GUY]

Gravity+sing or zap cannon is amazing because they can create more turns while going through subs or blowing them up in one turn

Maybe gravity on a prankster user

 

[Jaroda]

Actually I'm the one that submitted the Simple Whiscash idea and at the time (as I've had ideas for the project since its first version), two modifications weren't accepted. The funny thing is, I can't actually think of a second thing off the top of my head that Whiscash would really need to be OU viable, or the second change not being completely arbitrary. At the same time, I don't know what the competition will be like when the entry is accepted and while I'm glad my idea was overall received well, Zoroark really was just a top-notch idea for that slate and deserved to win. :) While my idea did make Whiscash better, Zoroark was completely unique and added a whole new way to play.

 

[Akumeoy]

We're bound by the submissions that we get, while now and again throwing in some of our own. What do you think a good Gravity or Sticky Web user would be? We're always looking for more submissions, the more the merrier!

I don't doubt that at all, which is why I posted about it in the thread so that people involved in the project might take notice. I've been meaning to make more submissions of my own, as well.

As proved by past cases (Thousand Waves Sandslash, among others) we don't mind extending signature moves to the right 'mons, as long as it's not done willy-nilly; if it improves the submission, whether it be flavor or effectiveness, then we can take it into consideration.

And you can do that if you want, but I probably won't be voting for those entries. JSYK.

 

[GnralLao]

Alright, so since many people seem to like Sceptile, I'm gonna throw in a couple of calcs to show how its list of switch-ins would be much smaller if the SpDef drop occurs (40% > 30% = 100% to popular beliefs):

Calcs

M-Altaria

252 SpA Mega Sceptile Seed Flare vs. 248 HP / 96 SpD Mega Altaria: 93-109 (26.3 - 30.8%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
252 SpA Mega Sceptile Seed Flare vs. -2 248 HP / 96 SpD Mega Altaria: 185-218 (52.4 - 61.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (in KO range after SR and/or little prior damage)

compared to

252 SpA Mega Sceptile Focus Blast vs. 248 HP / 96 SpD Mega Altaria: 62-73 (17.5 - 20.6%) -- possible 5HKO

Clefable

252 SpA Mega Sceptile Seed Flare vs. 252 HP / 84+ SpD Clefable: 193-228 (48.9 - 57.8%) -- 56.3% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Mega Sceptile Seed Flare vs. -2 252 HP / 84+ SpD Clefable: 384-453 (97.4 - 114.9%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO

compared to

252 SpA Mega Sceptile Leaf Storm vs. 252 HP / 84+ SpD Clefable: 208-246 (52.7 - 62.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
-2 252 SpA Mega Sceptile Leaf Storm vs. 252 HP / 84+ SpD Clefable: 105-124 (26.6 - 31.4%) -- possible 8HKO after Leftovers recovery

Celebi

252 SpA Mega Sceptile Seed Flare vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Celebi: 105-125 (25.9 - 30.9%) -- 6% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Mega Sceptile Dragon Pulse vs. -2 252 HP / 0 SpD Celebi: 300-354 (74.2 - 87.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery (little chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery; preferable to have SR up and/or prior damage)

compared to

252 SpA Mega Sceptile Dragon Pulse vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Celebi: 151-178 (37.3 - 44%) -- 100% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

M-Venusaur

252 SpA Mega Sceptile Seed Flare vs. 252 HP / 144 SpD Mega Venusaur: 40-47 (10.9 - 12.9%) -- possible 8HKO
252 SpA Mega Sceptile Dragon Pulse vs. -2 252 HP / 144 SpD Mega Venusaur: 228-268 (62.6 - 73.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (in KO range after SR and prior damage (if it's the offensive variant, then it's much more easily 2HKOed))

compared to

252 SpA Mega Sceptile Dragon Pulse vs. 252 HP / 144 SpD Mega Venusaur: 114-135 (31.3 - 37%) -- 77.9% chance to 3HKO

Skarmory

252 SpA Mega Sceptile Seed Flare vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Skarmory: 48-56 (14.4 - 16.8%) -- possible 9HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Mega Sceptile Hidden Power Fire vs. -2 248 HP / 252+ SpD Skarmory: 256-302 (76.8 - 90.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery (easier to KO with SR and/or prior damage)

compared to

252 SpA Mega Sceptile Hidden Power Fire vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Skarmory: 128-152 (38.4 - 45.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

Klefki

252 SpA Mega Sceptile Seed Flare vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Klefki: 84-99 (26.4 - 31.1%) -- 12.3% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Mega Sceptile Hidden Power Fire vs. -2 252 HP / 252+ SpD Klefki: 224-264 (70.4 - 83%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery (guaranteed KO after SR and prior damage)

compared to

252 SpA Mega Sceptile Leaf Storm vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Klefki: 90-107 (28.3 - 33.6%) -- possibly the worst move ever
-2 252 SpA Mega Sceptile Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Klefki: 56-68 (17.6 - 21.3%) -- possible 7HKO after Leftovers recovery

SpDef Zapdos

252 SpA Mega Sceptile Seed Flare vs. 248 HP / 180+ SpD Zapdos: 87-103 (22.7 - 26.8%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Mega Sceptile Dragon Pulse vs. -2 248 HP / 180+ SpD Zapdos: 247-292 (64.4 - 76.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery (guaranteed 2HKO after SR)

compared to

252 SpA Mega Sceptile Dragon Pulse vs. 248 HP / 180+ SpD Zapdos: 124-147 (32.3 - 38.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

Conkeldurr

252 SpA Mega Sceptile Seed Flare vs. 0 HP / 236 SpD Assault Vest Conkeldurr: 150-177 (42.7 - 50.4%) -- 1.2% chance to 2HKO (doesn't always need the SpDef drop, but still...)
252 SpA Mega Sceptile Seed Flare vs. -2 0 HP / 236 SpD Assault Vest Conkeldurr: 297-351 (84.6 - 100%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO

compared to

252 SpA Mega Sceptile Dragon Pulse vs. 0 HP / 236 SpD Assault Vest Conkeldurr: 106-126 (30.1 - 35.8%) -- 36.2% chance to 3HKO

When you take entry hazards, residual and prior damage into account, Seed Flare's SpDef drop makes M-Sceptile's checks a lot less reliable and, in some cases, the fact that Seed Flare doesn't drop your SpAtk is enough for Sceptile's would-be checks to be much more easier to deal with (M-Scizor and Ferrothorn for example). Aside from priority users, I could still see SpDef Zapdos be a huge problem if Seed Flare doesn't lower its SpDef because of Pressure sapping Seed Flare's PP away while Zapdos easily Roosts off the damage.

Anyway, that's all I can think about that hasn't been mentionned yet. I'll comment on the others if possible (end of semester and internship coming up soon).

 

[heritage]

Hi, everyone, it's voting time once again! Please remember to follow the format so it makes it easier to count!

Here are your options:

+ Fairy-typing (replaces Psychic-typing) and Mold Breaker (Credit to Sacrificial Lambtias)

+ Drizzle (Credit to Bendiving)

+ Seed Flare (Credit to Jaroda)

+ Chlorophyll and Flare Blitz

Aaaand here are the honorable mentions you can vote for:

- Infernape + Prankster
- Tornadus + Competitive
- Noivern + Nasty Plot
- Umbreon + Unaware
- Typhlosion + Drought
- Spiritomb + Dark Aura
- Glalie + Dragon Dance
- Mega Tyranitar + Sand Force
- Umbreon + Magic Bounce
- Mega Garchomp + Weak Armor
- Thick Fat Gogoat
- Electric / Dark Thundurus-T
- Miltank + Ground-type
- Mesprit + Download and Judgment

My vote n stuff:
Mega Sceptile + Seed Flare
Honorable Mention: Electric / Dark Thundurus-T

 

[Dratios]

Mega Sceptile + Seed Flare
Honorable Mention: Electric/Dark Thundy-T

 

[T.I.A.]

Mega Sceptile + Seed Flare
Honorable Mention: Glaile + Dragon Dance

 

[Dr Ciel]

Mega Sceptile + Seed Flare

Honourable Mention: Noivern + Nasty Plot

 

[MK]

Mega Sceptile + Seed Flare
Honorable Mention: Infernape + Prankster

 

[Tarontos]

Mega Sceptile + Seed Flare
Honourable Mention: Mesprit + Download and Judgment

 

[Tymano]

Azelf + Fairy Typing & Mold Breaker
Honorable Mention: Electric + Dark Thundurus-T

 

[Valmanway]

Seed Flare Mega Sceptile

Honorable Mention: Drought Typhlosion

 

[GnralLao]

Gotta give dat rocky sun of a b!tch some love!

Solrock + Chlorophyll and Flare Blitz

Honorable mention: Infernape + Prankster


Oh and here are two sun-related songs here and here so it gets more votes (hopefully...)

 

[Tressed]

Azelf + Fairy Typing & Mold Breaker
Honorable mention: Thick Fat Gogoat