Rayquaza (Revamp) [QC: 2/3]

Status
Not open for further replies.

Thugly Duckling

I play TCG now
QC checks:
GP checks:


I came, I conquered; I left

[OVERVIEW]

+ 150 / 150 offenses claim to fame
+ Dragon / Flying typing gives it a Ground-type immunity and resistances to Fire and Water
+ Air Lock negates the power boost given to Primal Groudon and Primal Kyogre by their respective weathers, granting Rayquaza a decent defensive niche of being a soft check to both Primals
+ Dragon Ascent is a nuke; has flawless coverage and access to Exteme Speed which gives it revenge killing utility
+ Great set up options between Dragon Dance and Swords Dance
+ Primals & Mence mandate that certain support Arceus formes be very bulky and forgo speed investment, giving Rayquaza more room to breathe
- Stealth Rock weakness
- Base 95 Speed isn't that great on an offensive Pokemon
- Quite frail; weak to common attacking types such as Fairy, Ice, and Dragon.
- Chaos rekt it; in loving memory of Mega Rayquaza

[SET]
name: Dance Dance Rayvolution: Redux
move 1: Dragon Ascent
move 2: Earthquake / Aqua Tail
move 3: Extreme Speed
move 4: Dragon Dance
item: Life Orb / Charti Berry
ability: Air Lock
nature: Jolly / Adamant
evs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
Moves
========

- Dragon Ascent is all purpose STAB; kills things like the seven plagues
- Earthquake rounds out coverage; OHKOes Rock Arceus at +1 and also Klefki when unboosted.
- Aqua Tail in conjunction with Charti Berry allows Rayquaza to function as a one-time check to Rock Polish Primal Groudon that run Stone Edge and cleanly OHKOes all support Primal Groudon after a boost.
- Extreme Speed for general revenge killing utility; note that it is very weak without a Life Orb boost.
- Dragon Dance allows Rayquaza to maintain offensive pressure, clean offensive teams, and makes it a chore for bulkier teams to deal with.
- Overheat can be used instead of Extreme Speed if your team struggles against Skarmory and can source a priority attack elsewhere.

Set Details
========

- Maximum Attack lets you nuke; maximum Speed investment and a Jolly nature allows Rayquaza to outspeed positive-natured base 90 Speed Pokemon and neutral-natured base 100 Speed and under Pokemon.
- If Charti Berry is used, an Adamant nature is recommended to compensate in a pinch for the lack of a Life Orb boost; also gives Rayquaza a 100% chance to OHKO standard Rock Polish Primal Groudon between Aqua Tail and Extreme Speed.
- Life Orb = POWAR
- Charti Berry makes the most of Rayquaza's little defensive synergy by allowing it to stomach a single Stone Edge from offensive Primal Groudon to follow up with a heavy hit in Aqua Tail or a set up with Dragon Dance; however, Primal Groudon can run Dragon-type moves and bypass Rayquaza's efforts to stop its sweep.

Usage Tips
========

- Rayquaza is a frail Pokemon, so setting up Dragon Dance is not always realistic. Against offensive teams, use its priority in Extreme Speed to steal momentum by picking off weakened sweepers.
- Against balanced teams, use Rayquaza's immediate power to soften up walls for a teammate and its coverage to take out Steel-types; in this matchup, Dragon Dance is rather used to punish Defog but of course can be used on forced switches.
- There are PLENTY of relevant set up opportunities in the stall matchup on Pokemon commonly used on stall teams such as Blissey, Ferrothorn, Primal Groudon, and Water Arceus without Ice Beam.
- In comparison to other sets, the Charti Berry variant cannot be played as recklessly -- afterall, it is used specifically to check Rock Polish Primal Groudon so play it wisely.
- Keep Stealth Rock off the field and don't let Rayquaza take Stealth Rock damage any more than once, as it must have at least 58% of max health to survive max Attack Primal Groudon's Stone Edge.
- Dragon Dance on the Charti Berry variant is used only to maintain offensive pressure; do note that not running a Life Orb leaves a lot of power to be desired and Rayquaza won't be sweeping teams very reliably without it.

Team Options
========

- MEGA SALAMENCE -- Double-Dragon Dance core has nonsense physical presence. Although their typings are redundant together, Rayquaza and Mega Salamence share the same checks and counters and easily overwhelm Pokemon such as support Arceus formes, Klefki, Tyranitar, and Dialga. Skarmory is a struggle for both, so run a Fire-type move on at least one of them. Rayquaza's ability to outspeed Rock Arceus after a boost and OHKO it with Earthquake is very notable here.
- Stealth Rock and or Spikes are a major factor to Rayquaza's success, making setters such as Primal Groudon, Deoxys-S, and Klefki good teammates.
- Rapid Spin is the best method of entry hazard removal to support Rayquaza with, as on most builds it is counterintuitive to use a Defogger and a Spiker on the same team, making Cloyster and Forretress excellent teammates.
- With the use of Rapid Spin comes teammates that can pressure Ghost-types. Dark Arceus and Darkrai beat out Ghost Arceus and Giratina-O, while Primal Groudon can keep Mega Gengar in check.
- Ghost-types of your own can prevent Rapid Spinners from removing your hard-earned hazards and can sponge Extreme Speed aimed at Rayquaza. Ghost Arceus can presume an offensive role with Calm Mind or Swords Dance, and Mega Gengar can trap and eliminate Rayquaza's checks and counters while also being able to stop Defog and keep entry hazards down with Taunt.
- Magic Bounce is another effective method of controlling hazard wars -- Rayquaza's offensive nature will mandate an offensive user of it, making Mega Diancie a prime user of it. It can also set Stealth Rock and wear down Steel-types with its Ground-type coverage.
- Although not as effective alongside Rayquaza than Rapid Spinners, Defoggers such as Latios, Latias, and Giratina-O can be used.
- If using the Charti Berry variant, keep in mind the attributes it brings to an offensive team -- it compresses a priority move and a Rock Polish Primal Groudon check into one teamslot, possibly freeing your team from Mega Salamence syndrome and can allow for an Arceus forme other than Extreme Killer; however, know where it succeeds and where it fails. As mentioned, Primal Groudon with Dragon-type coverage bypasses Charti Berry Rayquaza as a check to it, so run a secondary Primal Groudon check such as Ground Arceus alongside it.
- Forgoing Earthquake for Aqua Tail means that Rayquaza cannot touch Steel-types, making Ground- and Fire-types great teammates. Primal Groudon fits builds very easily, but others such as Ground Arceus and Ho-Oh can be used to form a solid offensive core with Rayquaza that checks opposing Ground-types well.
- Tyranitar + Excadrill deserves a special mention, as Excadrill can spin away entry hazards and check Steel-types, while Tyranitar can Pursuit trap Ghost-types such as Mega Gengar. In return, Charti Berry Rayquaza checks Ground-types that the pair is weak to.
- Wobbuffet can provide free set up opportunities with Encore; WobbuQuaza nostalgia.
- To make full use of Rayquaza's physical presence, just dogpile physical attackers.

[SET]
name: MixQuaza
move 1: Draco Meteor
move 2: Dragon Ascent
move 3: Earthquake / V-create
move 4: Extreme Speed / Earthquake
item: Life Orb
ability: Air Lock
nature: Naive
evs: 252 Atk / 40 SpA / 216 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
Moves
========

- Draco Meteor defines Rayquaza as a deadly mixed attacker -- it is potent against support Arceus formes and Primal Groudon, and notably OHKOes Giratina-O and Mega Salamence to stop either from Defogging, or in the case of the latter, setting up with Dragon Dance.
- Dragon Ascent is mandatory physical STAB; the (™) to Sweep's sarcasm
- Earthquake rounds out coverage, hitting grounded Steel-types such as Aegislash, Klefki, and Dialga in addition to having a large amount of super effective targets, such as Rock Arceus and Tyranitar.
- V-create can be a nice choice over Earthquake if Bronzong and Skarmory are major hindrances to a sweeper on your team.
- Extreme Speed remedies Rayquaza's subpar Speed and gives it an edge against offense at the cost of a coverage move which could otherwise be used to great effect versus balance or stall.
- Fire Blast can be used instead of V-create if the Speed drops are undesirable.

Set Details
========

- The above EV spread and nature provides the ability to outspeed positive-natured base 90 Speed Pokemon while donating some EVs into Special Attack to boost Draco Meteor.
- However, the Special Attack and Attack EVs can be flipped to do more damage with Draco Meteor to snipe bulky Primal Groudon and support Arceus formes at the cost of decreasing Dragon Ascent's power.
- A Rash nature can be used to further the power of Draco Meteor to leave an even bigger dent on support Arceus formes such as Rock- and Ghost- which outspeed Rayquaza regardless.

Usage Tips
========

- Wallbreak with extra enthusiasm; though, watch out for Rayquaza's HP bar, as Life Orb recoil and Stealth Rock damage can put it into KO range of a variety of attackers.
- Additionally, Rayquaza is a wallbreaker meant to pave the way for a sweeper; however, evaluate trade-offs carefully because Rayquaza provides valuable revenge killing utility with Extreme Speed to its team and can be fatal if compromised through poor play making.
- HIT AND RUN unless you clearly can maintain the upper hand by keeping Rayquaza in battle after a kill.
- Double switch or pivot to get Rayquaza into battle safely; Ground-type immunity is nice but beware of super effective coverage moves.
- Draco Meteor + Dragon Ascent 2HKOes most walls and neither have serious drawbacks, so do not hesitate to simply click one or the other, nor feel pressured to make irrational predictions.

Team Options
========

- This set trades a set up move that would otherwise maintain offensive pressure for more coverage moves that help it punish Defog and wallbreak better -- do know the differences between this set and Rayquaza's other sets.
- MixQuaza pressures Defoggers exceedingly well with Draco Meteor and forces switches like nobody's business, making entry hazard setters great partners.
- Primal Groudon is the most consistent Stealth Rock setter overall, while Scolipede, Forretress, and Ferrothorn are all great Spikers that each have their own unique set of attributes; though, Klefki makes the best pair with MixQuaza because it can spread paralysis with Thunder Wave to mitigate Rayquaza's average speed and spread poison with Toxic to further weaken the opponent's team while covering most of Rayquaza's weaknesses. In return, Rayquaza can dispose of pesky Steel-types that are immune to poison and can switch into Ground-type moves.
- Klefki alone may mandate a bulkier build but is by no means a bad thing -- MixQuaza by nature switches in and out of battle thrashing walls and can easily be worn down by Stealth Rock in doing such, meaning a defensive backbone for Rayquaza to fall back on that can also clear hazards is optimal.
- Support Ghost Arceus sponges Extreme Speed aimed at Rayquaza, spreads status to wear down the opposing team, and can keep Stealth Rock off the field with Defog. Giratina-O can fulfill the same purposes, but can phaze using Dragon Tail to rack up residual damage from entry hazards as well. Its type overlap with Rayquaza pressures Fairy-types and Steel-types well, with the added benefit of securing your team against Ground-types.
- Thunder Wave Ho-Oh and Mega Diancie form a nice offensive core with MixQuaza -- Mega Diancie provides hazard control on both spectrums with Magic Bounce and access to Stealth Rock, while Ho-Oh cripples the checks and counters it shares with Rayquaza using Thunder Wave and can defeat the Steel-types that can trouble both Rayquaza and Mega Diancie with Sacred Fire.
- MixQuaza beats the shat out of defensive Dragon-types like Giratina-O and Dragon Arceus with Draco Meteor, so try to capitalize on this with teammates that appreciate these threats being eliminated -- offensive Ground-types such as Rock Polish Primal Groudon and Ground Arceus have a field day when Giratina-O is gone, for example.
- What benefits from Rayquaza's wallbreaking abilities is dependant on which coverage moves you decide to run on it. Swords Dance Arceus and Double Dance Primal Groudon despise Skarmory and benefit most from Rayquaza with Fire-type coverage.
- MEGA SALAMENCE once again is a great teammate -- Double Edge + Refresh is the best Mega Salamence set to pair with MixQuaza because Rayquaza can afford to run the coverage moves which Mono-attacking Mega Salamence cannot. So long as Rayquaza takes a chunk out of its given check, Mega Salamence will plow through it with even a resisted attack.

[SET]
name: Dance Dance Rayvolution
move 1: Dragon Ascent
move 2: Earthquake / V-create
move 3: Extreme Speed
move 4: Swords Dance
item: Life Orb
ability: Air Lock
nature: Jolly / Adamant
evs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
Moves
========

- Dragon Ascent is mandatory STAB; stronger than Outrage's johns.
- Earthquake hits Steel-types such as Dialga and Klefki, does a number to Primal Groudon as well.
- V-create can be used to body Skarmory and bypass Shuca Berry Dialga as a check; note that the Speed drops can be a hindrance.
- Extreme Speed is priceless revenge killing utility, and lets Rayquaza clean weakened offensive teams with a boost from Swords Dance.
- Swords Dance doubles Rayquaza's attack in a single turn of set up, making it especially good at breaking down bulkier teams.

Set Details
========

- The above EV spread and nature allow Rayquaza to outspeed positive-natured base 90 Speed Pokemon.
- An Adamant nature can be used to boost the power of its attacks and most notably Extreme Speed if Speed control in the form of Thunder Wave can be provided by Rayquaza's team. Note that it is slower than than standard support Arceus, though.

Usage Tips
========

- Swords Dance Rayquaza is a wallbreaker and very rarely a sweeper -- it's in a higher power bracket than its others sets and is meant to overwhelm its usual checks and counters.
- Unleash powerful attacks or set up Swords Dance when given the chance in order to break down the opposing team.
- Both Dragon Ascent and V-create are the most powerful physical attacks available to Rayquaza, but have the drawback of lowering its defenses after each use; the latter also lowers the user's Speed. This can leave Rayquaza vulnerable to revenge killers in the form of priority or Choice Scarf carriers, so be wary of Rayquaza's health.
- It is stressed that Extreme Speed in conjunction with Swords Dance can only clean severely weakened teams and that Rayquaza's selling point is Dragon Ascent, so use it as such.

Team Options
========

- Swords Dance Rayquaza fits better than its others sets on teams that would otherwise struggle in the stall matchup.
- Run-of-the-mill offensive mon; needs entry hazards support to break Lugia and net some OHKOes and offensive teammates that share similar checks and counters.
- Primal Groudon is the best Stealth Rock setter to pair with Rayquaza, as they share great offensive and defensive synergy together. Others may be used however, such as Dialga.
- Spikes support is helpful to Swords Dance Rayquaza, but not as direly important to it compared to Dragon Dance and Mixed Rayquaza because the power brought by a Swords Dance boost achieves KOes quite sufficiently; Rayquaza still forces a lot of switches, though, making Spikers such as Cloyster, Scolipede, and Forretress good teammates.
- Just like the Dragon Dance set, Rapid Spin is the best way to support Swords Dance Rayquaza with entry hazard removal. Cloyster is an excellent choice, and can run Explosion to keep entry hazards in play.
- Magic Bounce is another way of keeping hazards out of play -- Mega Diancie is a great defensive partner in this regard that can also set Stealth Rock and maintain an offensive presence.
- Spinblockers are great to pair alongside hazard setters; Calm Mind Ghost Arceus is a great offensive partner to this set.
- Paralysis support works wonders for this set so Rayquaza can make the most out of its boost and possibly sweep. Klefki and Primal Groudon both spread paralysis with Thunder Wave, and can set entry hazards too.
- MEGA SALAMENCE -- again, is a great offensive partner to Swords Dance Rayquaza and shares many similar checks and counters with it.

[STRATEGY COMMENTS]
Other Options
=============

- A Choice Band can be given to Rayquaza in order to throw around an absurdly powerful Dragon Ascent and has a slightly stronger Extreme Speed that is comparable to that of Jolly Life Orb Extreme Killer Arceus, but it cannot switch between its moves and such is a major hindrance to Rayquaza that can be taken advantage of.
- A Choice Scarf can be given to Rayquaza to allow it to function as a revenge killer, but it is quite weak in comparison to its other sets and poses the same issues of a Choice Band in not being able to switch moves.
- Focus Sash lead has a niche on Smash Pass teams (I don't know much about this; Hack or Kebabe can u touch into this?), and can limit suicide entry hazard setters to a single hazard with the combination of Draco Meteor or Dragon Ascent + Extreme Speed.
- Tailwind can be used on the Swords Dance set instead of Extreme Speed to temporarily boost its Speed and clean offensive teams while reserving the threat to bulkier teams with Swords Dance, and offers team support that can help a sweeper. Extreme Speed's utility is more consistent, though, and Dragon Dance is Rayquaza's best tool against offensive teams.
- Outrage and Dragon Claw are acceptable STAB alternatives to Dragon Ascent that can be used on the Dragon Dance and Swords Dance sets, respectively, in order to target the specific threats of Dragon Arceus and the Giratina formes but their objectives and targets are overshadowed by Dragon Ascent's consistency, power, and few drawbacks.
- Dragon Tail can be utilized against Mega Sableye defensive cores to pressure walls with residual damage and dupe Lugia's Multiscale on a switch, but doesn't offer as much coverage and can be troublesome with its negative priority and Rayquaza's minor bulk issues.
- A Lum Berry can be used on both the Dragon Dance and Swords Dance sets to shrug off status and possibly accumulate more boosts, but forgoing Life Orb makes Rayquaza underwhelming in power.
- Yache Berry can be used on the Swords Dance set with an Adamant nature to thwart Lugia's and support Arceus's efforts to KO it with Ice Beam to KO in return with Dragon Ascent + Extreme Speed, but it make Rayquaza very reliant on acquiring a boost in order to do any real damage.

Checks and Counters
===================

- Lugia
- Support Arceus
- Revenge Killers
- Bulky Attackers
 
Last edited:

Thugly Duckling

I play TCG now
I had talked to Fireburn a bit about this before starting the skeleton but here is a summation of our discussion:

1) water moves only go on the DD Charti set; remove all mentions of surf and such
2) choice band set should be removed
3) +Spe natures > +Atk natures to outspeed standard Supportceus and 136 Spe Lugia so SD and Mixed sets can realistically break these threats (I.e, if lugia switches into DA and you are Adamant 252 Spe, Lugia has the option to Ice Beam)


Finished skeleton of Charti Berry set (someone think of a cool name for it?) and I'll probably just C/P Canman's skeleton of MixQuaza and Swords Dance, but emphasize more on why +Spe nature is better than +attack natures.

Some discussion points tho:

Jolly Vs Adamant on the Charti set -- Adamant lets you two hit any RP Don, however Jolly lets you set up on and outspeed standard +2 RP Don and OHKO back. Which is more useful?

Should CB be removed? As said in the previous thread its espeed does only 1% less damage than Jolly LO Ekiller's espeed and can give your offensive team more freedom with your Arceus. The only downsides are obviously not being able to switch moves, but locking into your coverage moves of V-create / EQ / Espeed can give Pdon / Mence / Ekiller free set up turns depending on what you click. Does this flaw warrant the full removal of the set, or do the sets objectives of freeing Arceus from being ekiller and hitting hard without Life orb overshadow its flaws?
 

Freeroamer

The greatest story of them all.
is a Community Contributoris a Top Tiering Contributor
- Agree with CB being removed, it's a nice OO option but I never really found the use of it over the LO set.

- Personally I prefer Aqua Tail with Charti, and EQ with Life Orb on the Dragon Dance set so the way they're slashed right now is fine.

- The mentions of the Charti Berry set checking RP Don so effectively should probably be remedied because dedicated RP sets often have Dragon coverage in either Claw or Pulse. Changing this to Double Dance is probably more accurate.

- On the mixed set I generally choose the slots like this: Draco / Ascent / E-Speed / Steel coverage so maybe slashing V-Create and EQ together would be better. I personally would never drop E-Speed because I find it just comes in useful too often for picking things like Darkrai off.
 

Thugly Duckling

I play TCG now
OK before finishing the skele with SD I want to bring to the attention of QC that Yache berry is a viable item on the SD set. With an Adamant nature, you KO standard support Arceus Water 100% of the time with the moves Dragon Ascent and Extreme Speed at +2. Here are the calcs:

- +2 252+ Atk Rayquaza Dragon Ascent vs. 252 HP / 200+ Def Arceus-Water: 315-372 (70.9 - 83.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

- 0 SpA Arceus-Water Ice Beam vs. -1 0 HP / 4 SpD Yache Berry Rayquaza: 248-292 (70.6 - 83.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

- +2 252+ Atk Rayquaza Extreme Speed vs. 252 HP / 200+ Def Arceus-Water: 141-166 (31.7 - 37.3%) -- 88.2% chance to 3HKO


So if it comes in as you SD you just Dragon Ascent as it Ice Beams and follow up with Extreme Speed, whereas, Jolly Life Orb will always require Stealth Rock to OHKO at +2, and it isnt even a guaranteed OHKO:


- +2 252 Atk Life Orb Rayquaza Dragon Ascent vs. 252 HP / 200+ Def Arceus-Water: 374-441 (84.2 - 99.3%) -- 75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock


It won't beat Lugia without SR up of course but at least under the condition that SR is up, you can force it into 50/50s between Roost stalling DA's PP or going for Ice Beam and exhausting the Yache Berry, then being KOed.

+2 252+ Atk Rayquaza Dragon Ascent vs. 252 HP / 124+ Def Lugia: 313-370 (75.2 - 88.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock


As mentioned, if it Roosts it risks this:


+4 252+ Atk Rayquaza Dragon Ascent vs. 252 HP / 124+ Def Multiscale Lugia: 235-277 (56.4 - 66.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery


Just some food for thought; let me know what you all think soon because I plan on getting this to QC stage later today.
 
I plan on getting this to QC stage later today - 1st October
From the analysis index said:
  • WIP - Work in Progress: The skeleton is incomplete and is not ready for the QC Team to evaluate. Keep in mind that the longer your analysis stays in WIP stage, the greater the chance of it being reassigned. Do not be lazy.
  • Reservation List

    After reserving a Pokemon, you must post your analysis in a timely fashion. Your analysis thread must be up in 72 hours (3 days) or your reservation will be dropped.
don't be the first guy in forever to be reassigned for inactivity.
 
Looks good. I have a niggling feeling that c&c needs more stuff in it but to be honest that's about all ray has in terms of checks. When its time for the writeup i think its worth mentioning some small Mega Rayquaza details (as in perhaps a quick passing mention that its banned/why its banned) - the current analysis reads as if the mega doesn't exist which doesn't seem all that fitting when it will never really get a proper analysis, which could confuse some readers. I see the mention there already but i cant tell if its sarcasm or planned to be added.

QC 1/3
 

Minority

Numquam Vincar
is a Tiering Contributoris a Top Contributoris a Tutor Alumnusis a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
Minor nitpick, but why is the first set using Aqua Tail over Waterfall. Adamant Charti Waterfall + ESpeed is KOing standard RP P Don without having to rely on Aqua Tail's shaky accuracy. Adamant Charti Aqua Tail doesn't come close to OHKOing support P Don while Waterfall still 2HKOs and can flinch. Against standard support P Don Surf is actually the best weapon but only if you're running a nature that doesn't drop SpA. Against even SpD P Don Aqua Tail doesn't OHKO. The slash should be Waterfall. Surf is OO, if even that, and would only ever run with Charti.

Some other barely relevant things. For the first and last sets I'd put the 4 extra EVs in Def not SpD for arbitrary prio and the shitty but still existent Genesect. The last set I'd also just call Swords Dance to help avoid confusion since the first set already does the cute DD joke.
 

Thugly Duckling

I play TCG now
Nayrz if there's a rush to get this done reassign it because I haven't found much time for anything smogon related besides seasonal tour battles scheduling and this week is especially busy for me irl
 
i mean there's no real rush (forum is quiet cause we have everything done) but it would be nice to get some updates if analyses have to be on hold due to irl stuff... mods aint mindreaders oO
 
Ok this is getting out of hand with the waiting. It's been another 2 weeks since my reminder (in which i more or less said "if this has to be on hold then the mods must know about it") and theres been no progress or updates.

This analysis has been up for 2 whole months now. steelphoenix is willing and able to take this so I'm gonna hand it to him.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 1, Guests: 0)

Top