VGC RMT: Mega Salamence

[Burn the Pages]

Hello! This is my second RMT I have ever done, my first being last year. I started VGC in 2013, however I never had much knowledge of the metagame at the time. I first started getting seriously into competitive battling around this time last year, so I do consider myself a bit of a beginner. Mainly, I’m just looking for advice as to how I can improve my team further and how to use the team better. Due to my extreme anxiety, I haven’t experienced live battle competitions as much as I could have. If anyone also has any advice for battling in live competitions and how to handle them, that is also appreciated as well. All advice is appreciated though!

Overview​

I created this team about two weeks ago for a Premier Event. I struggled for a couple days trying to decide which core I wanted to use and which worked best for me. Late one night (at around 12:00), I discovered the synergy between Cresselia and Landorus-Therian. I then built around this core and within the span of 5-10 minutes, I built this team. I of course adjusted some moves, evs, items and such as I practiced. Personally, I consider speed a very important factor in the current metagame, and I feel ym team reflects that. So far, at the regional I ended up winning 2 rounds and losing 3. I contribute this to my inexperience with the team (I was very focused on school at the time) and my nerves. As stated previously, I am mostly looking for tips as to how I can improve the team’s synergy, how to maximize it’s potential, suggestions about specific pokemon sets and tips for live battling. Nonetheless, all advice is extremely appreciated! Note: I am awful at creating EV spreads, so some of mine are from posts on sites such as Nugget Bridge (I will be linking them in the descriptions).

The Team​

Landorus-Therian @ Choice Scarf

Ability: Intimidate

Level: 50

EVs: 164 HP / 132 Atk / 4 Def / 28 SpD / 180 Spe

Adamant Nature

- Rock Slide

- Knock Off

- Earthquake

- Superpower


I chose to start with Landorus-T for the reason that it is a huge staple in the metagame, as most of you know. Equipped with it’s choice scarf, it’s monster high attack and lightning fast speed along with it’s access to spread moves (most noted STAB Earthquake) make him pretty much unstoppable. Originally I ran Rock Slide and Stone Edge to counter Wide Guard users such as Aegislash, Machamp, Hitmontop and the occasional Conkeldurr. I quickly found that I would lock into Rock Slide more often than Stone Edge. Although Stone Edge could get OHKO’s much more often than Rock Slide, Rock Slide was better for picking up KO’s along with the possible chance for a flinch. Super Power was mainly used as a counter for Mega Kangaskhan and for a number of other less significant things. I opted for Knock Off over U-Turn because Knock Off is mostly used as a support move for my other pokemon as well as a much more effective way to get rid of Cresselia, along with other psychic and ghost pokemon such as Gardevoir and occasionally Aegislash. Since I switched from U-Turn, I never found myself in a position where I wished I had U-Turn over Knock Off. I opted for a slightly more defensive Landorus because I felt it was much needed on my team. I found the spread here: (http://braverius.blogspot.com/2015/07/bloomington-minnesota-premier-challenge.html). The EVs in its defenses seem enough to be fairly bulky while still being a threat. Overall, I think Landorus is a very standard and fundamental part of the metagame for obvious reasons.

Cresselia @ Rocky Helmet

Ability: Levitate

Level: 50

EVs: 80 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA / 172 SpD

Bold Nature

- Psychic

- Ice Beam

- Moonlight

- Helping Hand


Cresselia is extremely bulky and it’s one of the reasons I picked her to be on the team. The 252 EVs in defense are for maximum coverage against physical attackers along with the rocky helmet provide extra damage against Physical Attackers. I can’t find the exact article where I got this EV spread, but I have been using the spread for a couple weeks now with no complaints. It’s very bulky and seems to survive everything. However, if anyone does have a better spread available, I would be open to changing it. Psychic is for STAB damage against fighting types and Amoonguss. Ice Beam is for extra damage on flying types, since Ice has such a nice niche in today’s metagame. However, I am considering changing it to Icy Wind as an extra form of speed control. I chose to use Helping Hand as a way to avoid being stuck on the field with nothing to do. Helping Hand + Lando-T’s Earthquake worked very well together. I decided to use Moonlight instead of another status move such as Calm Mind or Trick Room, simply because if I had a form of recovery on Cresselia, I could restore some extra HP when it would sit on the field and not be able to do much and it would only further help support its teammates with Helping Hand. Overall, this Cresselia is very bulky and I rarely find it to be dead weight.

Salamence @ Salamencite

Ability: Intimidate

Level: 50

EVs: 68 HP / 4 Def / 244 SpA / 4 SpD / 188 Spe

Timid Nature

- Hyper Voice

- Draco Meteor

- Flamethrower

- Protect

I opted for Mega Salamence simply because I needed a mega. I didn’t want to use Kangaskhan because I felt it was overused and I didn’t want to be ridiculed for using three members of CHALK. I found the EV spread here: (http://pokemondb.net/pokebase/rmt/41441/could-someone-rate-my-team-its-for-vgc-doubles). After some testing of many EV spreads I settled on this one. 188 EVs in Spe along with a Timid Nature are enough to outspeed Thundurus before it OHKO with HP Ice (depending on the spread. The 68 EVs in HP help limit this.). The rest of the EVs were put into SpA along with 4 EVs in Def and SpD. Hyper Voice is for STAB and spread damage, making it very easy to pick up KO’s. Draco Meteor was for bulky pokemon who resisted all of Salamence's attacks such as Rotom (W and H). Flamethrower was my only fire type move on the entire team, making it a necessity if I wanted to win against teams with Ferrothorn. I added protect as the final move to protect itself against incoming Ice Type attacks. Generally speaking, Salamence is one of my sweepers on this team that really pull through in the late game.

Aegislash @ Weakness Policy

Ability: Stance Change

Level: 50

EVs: 128 Def / 252 SpA / 128 SpD

Modest Nature

- Shadow Ball

- Flash Cannon

- Wide Guard

- King's Shield


The synergy between Aegislash and Salamence is astounding. Aegislash can OHKO fairies such as Sylveon and Gardevoir, or it can use Wide Guard on an incoming Hyper Voice and allow Salamence to continue sweeping. I have always used this EV spread on Aegislash since the first time I used it. It hits like a truck with it’s Modest Nature and 252 EVs in SpA. The 128 EVs in its defenses make it very bulky all around, allowing Aegislash to activate its Weakness Policy and sweep with it’s massive offenses. Shadow Ball is mainly for neutral damage on opposing pokemon. Flash Cannon is to help get rid of Fairy types. I used Wide Guard instead of substitute for the reason that it is more of a supporting move rather than a move that benefits itself. Wide Guard is extremely useful against Heatran, Landorus, etc. King’s Shield is for obvious reasons. Although Aegislash is very offensive, it can still be a team player.

Greninja @ Focus Sash

Ability: Protean

Level: 50

EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

Timid Nature

- Ice Beam

- Scald

- Grass Knot

- Dark Pulse


Greninja is my favorite pokemon for many reasons. The EVs and nature maximize Greninja’s most predominate stats. It’s extremely high speed, above average SpA, Wide Movepool and Protean make it a huge threat. Although it has awful defenses that can’t even be helped by any EVs at all, that can be made up for with a Focus Sash. Ice Beam is a great ice type move that can OHKO pokemon such as Landorus, Salamence, Thundurus and even with the right support, Amoonguss. Scald is for even more coverage, along with the added burn chance, makes it a very great move on Greninja. It allows Greninja to hit pokemon such as Aegislash without activating a possible Weakness Policy. Grass Knot is a very unsuspecting move on Greninja. With the proper support of Whimsicott, it can OHKO bulky water types like Suicune and Milotic. It also easily hits Gastrodon and Swampert. Dark Pulse allows for the possibility for a flinch chance which I always find useful. It yields great neutral damage against relatively bulky pokemon. Dark Pulse can also hit opposing Cresselia for super effective damage which is always helpful. Overall, I love Greninja because of its great versatility!

Whimsicott @ Mental Herb

Ability: Prankster

Level: 50

EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

Timid Nature

- Moonblast

- Sunny Day

- Taunt

- Fake Tears


While wrapping up my team building, I realized I needed a Prankster user that can effectively use taunt, and what better user than Whimsicott! In my opinion, it is much more useful than Thundurus. It also completed the fairy/steel/dragon core. The EV spread maximizes its SpA and Spe. With the 252 investment in speed, it can use Taunt against Thundurus. The 252 EVs in SpA are specifically for Moonblast. I decided that its defenses are awful and weren't worth the EVs. Although, if someone has a spread they would like to recommend, I will gladly look it over! Moonblast is the only attacking move on Whimsicott because it gets STAB and hits Dragon types like Hydreigon and Salamence hard as a result of its 252 EVs in SpA. Sunny Day is useful against weather teams (specifically rain, which is very troublesome for my team). With the sun up, Cresselia also heals 75% of its health from it. Taunt shuts down opposing support pokemon. Since most of my team is special attackers, Fake Tears seemed like the perfect last addition to the move set. With the help of Fake Tears, Greninja can OHKO bulky waters, Amoonguss, shield form Aegislash, and do great damage to Cresselia. It turned Greninja from an average threat to a major threat. It also allows for Salamence to pick up many more OHKOs which I always found useful. In conclusion, I find Whimsicott to be a great support pokemon that can partner with mostly any pokemon on my team to wreck havoc.

Conclusion​

This team has a lot of room for improvement. Advice as to how I can improve the team overall is excellent and any advice for live tournaments is also appreciated. But all advice is welcome! Thank you for taking your time for reading this Analysis of my team, I always appreciate it!

 

[Serapis]

Such a pity this hasn't gotten any replies yet. Well, time to rectify that.

Landorus-T looks pretty good, but I suggest running 108 HP / 156 Atk / 28 Def / 12 SpD / 204 Spe, or perhaps 20 Defense and 212 Spe for creeping purposes. The spread has about the same bulk as the one you already have with some extra speed and attack. If you're interested, the spread was made by Blake Hopper and got him all the way to Top 4 at US Nationals. (full report here)

Cresselia looks fine on it's own. In the context of your team, however, I feel as though Safety Goggles are worth considering over Rocky Helmet. Mega-Salamence certainly does well against all of the Spore users in the format, but as it stands Breloom has it's Sash and Amoonguss doesn't get KOed by Hyper Voice. Goggles would give you a switch in to Spores as well as a generally stronger Amoonguss matchup (Psychic is good, but if you get 3 turn sleeps it can still be annoying for Cress to deal with Amoonguss). Calm Mind is another option for the Helping Hand slot on Cress. Really depends on how useful you're finding Helping Hand at the moment, but I'd at least give CM a try.

Salamence is generally better served with the mixed set of Hyper Voice/Draco Meteor/Double Edge/Protect. The EV spread you usually see with that is 44 Atk / 212 SpA / 252 Spe with a Naive nature (edited). Double Edge is extremely beneficial for the nuking potential, most notably onto things like Gardevoir and Sylveon but it also does a nice chunk to Kangaskhan and allows you to OHKO Amoonguss. You do lose out on Flamethrower, but honestly I think an actual Fire type would be better and the slight loss of coverage on Ferrothron is worth it.

Aegi's moveset is fine, but the EV spread for Weakness Policy Aegislash is 252 HP / 100 SpA / 156 SpD with a Quiet Nature. That spread makes you underspeed or at worst speed tie with all other Aegislash so you can remain in Shield form for as long as possible. The EVs allow you to take a Choice Specs Hydreigon's Dark Pulse and a Life Orb Shadow Ball from opposing Aegislash.

Greninja is fine, but Protect is much more valuable than Grass Knot to allow you to block Fake Outs and preserve Greninja so that it can deal with the things it wants to KO (like Landorus-T). Without Protect, Greninja is just Kang bait.

As it stands, I don't really feel that Whims is bringing much to the team. Fake Tears is nice, but it doesn't solve the problem your team has with coverage/overreliance on Salamence to deal damage and stick around. At the very least, you need Protect over Sunny Day for the extra consistency. If you find that Whims is working well enough then you can just leave it, but I'd at least consider other options like Virizion that have more general use and bring more to the team than niche support.

 

[Steven Stone]

Noting that Serapis just got the 20 Atk / 236 SpA / 252 Spe and 44 Atk / 212 SpA / 252 Spe EV spreads for Salamence mixed up. The one you should follow is 44 Atk / 212 SpA / 252 Spe in my opinion. Those are just my 2 cents n_n

 

[Burn the Pages]

Such a pity this hasn't gotten any replies yet. Well, time to rectify that.

Landorus-T looks pretty good, but I suggest running 108 HP / 156 Atk / 28 Def / 12 SpD / 204 Spe, or perhaps 20 Defense and 212 Spe for creeping purposes. The spread has about the same bulk as the one you already have with some extra speed and attack. If you're interested, the spread was made by Blake Hopper and got him all the way to Top 4 at US Nationals. (full report here)

Cresselia looks fine on it's own. In the context of your team, however, I feel as though Safety Goggles are worth considering over Rocky Helmet. Mega-Salamence certainly does well against all of the Spore users in the format, but as it stands Breloom has it's Sash and Amoonguss doesn't get KOed by Hyper Voice. Goggles would give you a switch in to Spores as well as a generally stronger Amoonguss matchup (Psychic is good, but if you get 3 turn sleeps it can still be annoying for Cress to deal with Amoonguss). Calm Mind is another option for the Helping Hand slot on Cress. Really depends on how useful you're finding Helping Hand at the moment, but I'd at least give CM a try.

Salamence is generally better served with the mixed set of Hyper Voice/Draco Meteor/Double Edge/Protect. The EV spread you usually see with that is 44 Atk / 212 SpA / 252 Spe with a Naive nature (edited). Double Edge is extremely beneficial for the nuking potential, most notably onto things like Gardevoir and Sylveon but it also does a nice chunk to Kangaskhan and allows you to OHKO Amoonguss. You do lose out on Flamethrower, but honestly I think an actual Fire type would be better and the slight loss of coverage on Ferrothron is worth it.

Aegi's moveset is fine, but the EV spread for Weakness Policy Aegislash is 252 HP / 100 SpA / 156 SpD with a Quiet Nature. That spread makes you underspeed or at worst speed tie with all other Aegislash so you can remain in Shield form for as long as possible. The EVs allow you to take a Choice Specs Hydreigon's Dark Pulse and a Life Orb Shadow Ball from opposing Aegislash.

Greninja is fine, but Protect is much more valuable than Grass Knot to allow you to block Fake Outs and preserve Greninja so that it can deal with the things it wants to KO (like Landorus-T). Without Protect, Greninja is just Kang bait.

As it stands, I don't really feel that Whims is bringing much to the team. Fake Tears is nice, but it doesn't solve the problem your team has with coverage/overreliance on Salamence to deal damage and stick around. At the very least, you need Protect over Sunny Day for the extra consistency. If you find that Whims is working well enough then you can just leave it, but I'd at least consider other options like Virizion that have more general use and bring more to the team than niche support.

Thank you so much for replying! I really appreciate it! You've given me alot to think about on how I structure specific sets.

I really like the Landorus spread. Although it's not as bulky, it does give it some extra attacking power, which is always nice. I like everything about Blake Hopper's Landorus set, bar the U-Turn. Personally, I just never found U-Turn that helpful which is why I had Knock Out in replacement

Safety goggles is something I've been meaning to try, I just always thought Rocky Helmet worked better with Cresselia's set. But in terms of the team as a whole, safety goggles would probably do a lot more work. Spore users is something I'm always afraid of personally haha. Personally, I find helping hand very helpful, as it contributes to the team more. Of course, I will test Calm Mind since you mentioned it.

I'll have to try this Salamence EV spread out to see how much I like it, and if I notice an immediate difference. However, I was considering switching Mega-Salamence for Mega-Charizard-Y and getting rid of Greninja. That way I can have Charizard act as the fire type, with solar beam, and still easily get KOs. I find Salamence at sometimes to be rather useless, except for it's spread damage with Hyper Voice, but Charizard has access to Heat Wave which would most likely be equally as beneficial along with Solar Beam and possibly Overheat (if I decide to add it). I'll have to play around with it a bit.

I like this EV spread alot better, since it does maximize it's HP stat which is consistently low rather than it's defenses. Although I might miss the 252 EVs in SpA, the more specially defensive spread is much better.

As stated previously, I am considering getting rid of Greninja. Protect is something I've gotten comments about on other forums, since Greninja is so frail and often targetted, and Kangaskhan is prominent in VGC consistently.

The biggest reason I have Whim is to counter rain teams with Sunny Day, Taunt Thundurus/other support pokemon and to Fake Tear everything so getting KOs is much easier. Protect is something I never found very useful on support pokemon, since I'd rather occupy that slot with Swagger, Momento, Encore, or Tailwind, but I might end up trying it, just to be sure. I considered changing it to Life Orb Thundurus at one point, since I would have a way to hit Charizard, and bulky waters more effectively, which is something else i have to test.

 

[gepesek]

take out Sunny Day on Whimsicott and put Tailwind, Sunny Day is kinda a gimmick and Tailwind doubles the speed of your own team wich is the same as nulifile Swift Swin. And then change Timid for Modest on Salamence, Base SpAtck isn't so great with a timid nature considering you can't run a boosting item like life orb, so Modest and 252 EV in SpAtk are manadatory to put big holes with Hyper Voice and Draco Meteor wwith the help of Fake Tears from Whimsicott. Hope i can help, and cool team !

 

[ProjectTitan313]

You have a marked weakness to bulky Water mons; Milotic paramount among them. Greninja can't deal with Milotic; it almost laughs at Grass Knot, and can KO right back with Ice Beam. If you use anything other than Grass Knot, you'll never kill it.
Landog and non-Mega Salamence merely feed Milotic, Aegislash can't do much in return and can be outmanuvered with Scald + Recover even if Milotic doesn't have a +2/+4 boost. Icy Wind Cresselia would simply feed Milotic even more. Even with the hilarity of Prankster Sunny Day, Whimsicott won't save you against Milotic. If you gamble with Fake Tears, you again give it +2 Sp. Atk if it survives your attack.

I'd suggest switching Greninja for Rotom-W; you lose some Speed, sure, but Landog + Rotom-W synergizes well and Rotom-W is a very solid answer to almost every Water type; you're pretty much fucked by Politoed + Ludicolo across the board though. Prankster Sun helps a lot, but until you KO Toed it just buys a turn or two while it switches and it doesn't slow Ludicolo on the turn you use it.

So, basically, you have a problem with Rain, Milotic, Ferrothorn (especially in Rain), and the extremely obscure Defiant Emploeon pretty much just sits down and shits on your life; I'm the only idiot who runs it though, no worries.

First things first: I advocate the Mixed MegaMence posted above. Fucking hate fighting the thing, trust me, it's good. Beyond that:

> Rotom-W would be a huge help, like I said, for smashing Milotic, Gyarados, Politoed, etc. while helping against Swampert a bit. The lone Grass weakness is 0% issue for your team; Ludicolo is scary though so I would suggest a Rindo Berry + Thunder Wave variant if it becomes a problem, otherwise standard Rotom-W would be fine.
> Aegislash needs the EV set posted above; huge defenses + low HP = always invest in HP, period. The only time investing in HP for overall bulk is inadvisable is in extremely skewed high HP, pitiful Def/Sp. def situations like Hariyama or Vaporeon.
> Landog could run Assault Vest, but Scarf is fine, I see no reason to change it. Scarf Hydreigon is an issue for your team, but Tailwind Whimsicott would solve this.
> With Greninja out, Sash your Whimsicott. Whimsicott is the undisputed lord of Taunt, it WILL out-taunt anything that lives. Current spread is fine with a Sash imo; gives you a good way to deal with non-Scarf Hydreigon.

Twave Rotom would massively improve your Water matchup while adding more Speed control + haxchance with landog, and helps deal with other random shit like Kang, Mega Metagross, opposing Mega Salamence, and Char-Y (can't OHKO Rindo Berry Rotom-W, effectively dead once paralyzed). Fuck, you could run Sunny Day Rotom-W too but that's kinda my gimmick. :P

Virizion is an absolute god against most weather-based teams, but Whimsicott seems to work for you / I think it's fine tbh. Mence + Virizion is a good combo though.

tl;dr watch out for Rain, especially the Toed + Ludicolo + Mega Gardevoir core I've been seeing on the rise (Battle Spot Doubles stat trends prove this as well, btw).