ORAS UU Viability Rankings V4

[Cactrune]

My personal opinions on the VR thread and the state of the metagame.

Suicune: S to A+ Agree
Yeah, I kind of have to agree here. Suicune has been fluctuating between S and A+ for months, and it's plain to see why. Zapdos, Whimsicott, Mega Ampharos, Toxicroak, and a lot of Suicune's other checks, are more prevalent than ever, and continue to shape the metagame against Suicune, always stopping it from walling and sweeping like it once did. Speaking of sweeping, Suicune's famous Calm Mind set has kind of fallen out of favor to make room for better CM sweepers like Reuniclus and Florges. It's still a great 'mon, it fits on a huge number of teams, it checks so many threats that I have a hard time listing them, etc, but I do think a drop is impending.
Krookodile: A+ to A Agree
I probably use Krookodile on more than half of my teams, but I definitely think that it's getting harder to use. The metagame has recognized Krookodile's nature as a potent wallbreaker and adapted accordingly. Many different Pokemon, most notably Empoleon and Cobalion, run Shuca Berry very often now for the express purpose of stopping the attacks of Ground-types like Krookodile. As the metagame is flooded with powerful offensive Water-types like Crawdaunt and Gyarados, Grass-types like Whimsicott, Tangrowth, and Chesnaught are getting more and more popular, and it's getting harder to use Krookodile effectively imo. A is good enough.
Azelf: A to A- Agree
The lead metagame is kind of hard to keep up with, but its developments can be summed up in a single word: Sableye. Yeah, it can Taunt Azelf and basically invalidate the vast majority of its support sets. NP gets past it, but that's not really the set that I see on the vast majority of teams. Yeah, A- is probably good. Mega Beedrill and Whimsicott can mess it up too.
Mega Absol: B to B+ On the Fence
I'm going to assume that the reason why this was brought up is because of Sableye, whose status spam makes it easier for Mega Absol to switch in and set up. That makes sense, and Sableye is definitely on a huge number of teams these days, but I don't know if Mega Absol should really be bumped up a rank because of it. Sableye is definitely a fixture of balance, but more and more, other checks to Absol are also popping up. Cobalion, Chesnaught, Florges, Suicune, and other 'mons are decent checks to Absol, depending on the set. Its mediocre bulk, in my opinion, often offsets its good offensive stats and ability. It honestly could merit a bump, but there are still a number of things holding it back.

 

[The Heartless Dictator]

Can we please move on to other nominations other than discussing about Stunfisk's viability? I'm all up for nomming lower ranking Pokemon, but this discussion about Stunfisk being ranked has been going nowhere, and to be frank, I'm getting sick of seeing posts about it.

I'm still on the fence about Suicune dropping from S rank. Again, Sableye completely shuts it down with Taunt, forcing it to go with Sclad and most of the tie forcing it to switch out. On the other hand though, since Gyrados dropped down here, it serves as a pretty decent check to it. The recent usage of Electric-types is a big problem for it, but I have an answer for that with my opinion below with Krook. For now, I can't really decide on whether it should drop or not.

I'm gonna have to heavily disagree and say that I don't think Krookodile should drop from A+. The new drops haven't been kind to it, yes, but ever since Crawdaunt and Gyrados have dropped down here, people have been using more Electric-type Pokemon specifically to counter them. I mean, just look at Mega Amphy. It shot up a rank just because of how viable it is right now because of Craw and Gyra. Plenty can argue that Mega Swamp is a better answer to them, with is kinda true, but Krook has a better advantage since it can use items, allowing it to 2HKO Defensive Mega Amph with the Choice Band set, and out-speeding Heliolisk with the Choice Scarf set. It also doesn't suffer a 4x Grass weakness that Mega Swamp does, since Heliolisk usually carries Grass Knot to hit stuff like Swamps with. It's also a decent check to defensive Zapdos sets, since Zapdos doesn't have much to damage it back with, with the exception of Hidden Power Ice/Grass. It also doesn't use your mega slot, allowing more flexibility with your team building.

I will agree that Azelf should drop. Since Sableye dropped down here, it's main role as a suicide lead has become a lot more difficult to perform, since Sableye has the tools and typing to counter it heavily. Being able to Taunt it first to prevent Stealth Rocks from going up and being immune to Explosion really hurt the Lead set's viablity. It's still the best lead in this tier, but Sableye being on a lot of teams recently haven't been doing Azelf any good.

I never used Mega Absol before, so I don't have any real opinion if it should rise or not. Since Sableye is prevalent atm, that does make it a pretty good counter to it, since Magic Bounce is a huge bane for Sableye.

 

[Pearl]

no pretty sprites or sentences, just some random thoughts on the most recent nomations

krook shouldn't move down IMO. cb krook, which is arguably its best set, is a nuke with defensive utility thanks to its nice set of resistances/electric immunity/ability to pivot with intimidate, which is a trait that eases teambuilding a lot (and the reason why you see krook on balance a lot more than, say, mamoswine or heracross). it's also worth adding that unlike most choice locked nukes, there's nearly 0 risk in spamming krook's main stab move (knock off), which isn't the case /w mons such as the aforementioned cb hera (lots of fighting immunities as well as 4x megahorn resists), dragon-types (unless we're talking about kyurem cause that thing's ice beam is actually insane), fire-types (entei, darma and maybe rk9 if u count that) cause everyone is packed with at least 1 solid switch in to those and i could also mention cb metagross but that is probably ass. to top it off, krook is one of the few viable pursuit trappers in the tier, which is always a good niche. i haven't really talked in-depth about other krook sets/variants (scarf, sr pl8, taunt and fat krook), but they're all worth looking into and help me proving that krook is definitely one of this tier's most influential mons rn.

suicune should definitely be moved down. it is still a beast, but it's just that the metagame evolved and suicune became much easier for most teams handle. gyara and crawdaunt made grass and electric-types more common than ever, people run dedicated stuff like seismitoad and toxicroak to tank scalds (the former is a little meh imo, but a toxicroak with free turns is a bitch to handle) and sable being back doesn't really help suicune's cause (altho it could be worse, considering you can fish for scald burns, but sable still gimps resttalk cune a lot). with that said, still i don't get why people aren't running suicune more, especially on offense teams. cm/tailwind/stab/ice beam suicune received a lot of usage back in gs3 and it is still a completely viable option, powering up wallbreakers like mamo, dragons and even crawdaunt while also serving as a nice one time switch in to a lot of mons.

indifferent about absol, but im just gonna mention that people are trying to raise it up for the wrong reasons. if i wanted a mega with the ability to handle sable, i'd run houndoom>absol all day that's for sure. absol has to mega evolve before being able to switch in on sable, which is a pretty hard task considering factors such as its below-average speed b4 mega and non-existent bulk and even then has a chance of getting boned by foul play. with that said, what truly makes absol worth a teamslot is its ability to completely deny froslass, strong priority and knock off, as well as nice coverage options (going mixed isn't completely unheard of and even if it doesn't, superpower and even play rough are ok moves)

azelf's role as a suicide lead was obviously gimped but if aero moved up in the most recent update i think that moving azelf down would be pretty weird. although king uu's posts about why aerodactyl shouldn't move up are pretty fucking bad at actually defending that aero shouldn't move up, they provide some really nice input on what azelf does and how it is not limited to sash sr. lo 3 moves with either sr or nasty plot is incredibly hard to handle for all kinds of teams, as most stuff that outruns azelf risks getting boned by a coverage move or even azelf's stab (and it's not like dazzling gleam only covers sable. /me points at hydra) and a lot of slow mons that can actually tank + kill azelf are still going to take a huge chunk of damage in the process. with that said, i haven't played around w/ this mon too much. i have a ho team i made for joey's uu live with lo azelf but that's about it. all in all, i guess there's nothing wrong with keeping it in A rank

 

[jjoshcja]

LO/ebelt 3 attacks rocks azelf was reasonably common tech last time it had to deal with sab in UU so that's a totally reasonable assumption.

I'm all for the vast majority of the ranking changes but dropping slowking's ranking is just crazy. Nothing really dropped to make it worse (yes I'm including sab in that statement), pivots with as much utility as king packs are effectively metashift-proof (outside of trapmeta's... and king hit its current ranking in lolpursuitmeta), and gyara has really minimal overlap with slowking outside of a similar resistance suite.

B- seismi was fine, while it failes to tank hits with the raw bulk of pert rhperior or steelix, water absorb and its slight movepool variations create a pretty huge niche for froggy on non spikestack offensive teams.

Gyara is a pretty solid A+ that I could see going S on its raw utility and fat.

 

[Funbot28]

Guess will discuss Gyrados, as I agree with the rest of the nominations:

Gyradaos to A (to begin with)

Gyarados is such an effective sweeper in UU thanks to it's amazing Water/Flying typing and it's ability in Intimidate, which grants it many setup opportunities. The bulky sub DD set is my favorite personally as it dosen't leave it susceptible to status from Sableye and it can usually be able to setup once behind a sub and start sweeping from there (although it's speed after +1 with Adamant nature still does not let it outspeed Mega Aero, Mega Beedrill and Scarf Hydreigon/Mence. It also can run other effective sets such as DD RestTalk, bulky T-Wave, and I have also seen Choice Band Moxie as well. The only problem I have with Gyra, is that it is kinda pressured with it's moves (if it's running sub) as if it decides to run Earthquake over Bounce, it gets walled by Chestnaught, and if vice-versa, it gets walled by Mega Ampharos. It also has average speed if it chooses to run Adamant (which it mostly should), that does not let it outspeed key threats in Zapdos, Chandelure, Krokodile and Mamoswine. It can also find it hard to setup, due to it switching in and out often thanks to Intimidate support. Overall, Gyrarados is an amazing mon, but it kinda finds it difficult to do what it's supposed to do and was hyped up for at times, which makes me believe it's deserving of A rank (near the top of it preferably). However, I woudn't be opposed of it rising to A+ in the near future (please not S).

 

[YABO]

In my typical fashion, I don't have too much to say about the current noms on the table, however there is one pokemon that is criminally underrated, so much so that it's not even on the rankings. I seriously don't know how this slipped under the radar for so long, but Omastar is a beast and I'm really surprised it isn't on this list. Omastar can run 3 sets effectively in UU atm, the two best are Shell Smash and Physically Defensive, whereas the third is suicide lead (admittedly, I haven't tried suicide lead and this is just an assumption). Now the main things that separate Omastar from its competition in the Shell Smash role are its ability to set up on Entei, and also its resistance to ExtremeSpeed, meaning it's more difficult to revenge once it has set up. Omastar is also just fast enough to beat out the big boys like Aerodactyl at +2, meaning that setting up in their face is most certainly an option, especially considering with White Herb you live Aero Earthquake + ESpeed from Entei and without White Herb you live Stone Edge + ESpeed. Long story short, Omastars good physical bulk lets you set up and stay set up, just clear priority and you can sweep easily. I've been using Smash Sash Oma for a few days now and it's pretty awesome, here are some decent replays featuring it.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/uu-316873911 - Dodging Discharge paras means gg for this guy.
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/uu-316876502 - Deciding to Spike instead of breaking my sash was curtains.
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/uu-316876990 - Yes, that was an Aron.

The defensive set is also a nice addition for a couple of reasons. The main thing being Omastar's naturally high Special Attack of base 115 which makes all of its moves pack a punch, even uninvested. Once you start stacking Spikes, Defoggers love to come in. Empoleon comes in unscathed but Salamence, Zapdos, Forretress, etc all take a nice hit from either Scald or Ice Beam. Throwing both Rocks and Spikes on a single pokemon is risky but rewarding if there is something like Entei on the opposing side to capitalize on. I don't have any replays of the defensive set but trust me, it's definitely usable.

Sample sets:

Shell Smash

Omastar @ Focus Sash / White Herb
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Shell Smash
- Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam
- Earth Power

You can shave off some Speed evs if you want, 216+ beats Jolly Aero after Smash, 232+ beats Scarf Rotom-A after a smash.

Defensive

Omastar @ Leftovers
Ability: Shell Armor
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Spikes
- Scald
- Ice Beam

Like I said, Ice Beam + Scald does good damage to stuff, with Wish + Heal Bell you are pretty much the most reliable Entei counter in the game while still handling stuff like Aero. In the right matchup, you can stack up a ton of hazards.

Suicide Lead

Omastar @ Focus Sash
Ability: Weak Armor
EVs: 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Ice Beam
- Stealth Rock
- Spikes

This set loses value since 108s are still faster at +1 Speed but I'd imagine it's at least decent.

E: I'd probably put Omastar one rank below Cloyster, wherever that is.

 

[rs]

Just gonna post some thoughts on a few of the recent noms

(S to A+): Agree - As some others have said, the recent drops (Gyarados, Crawdaunt) have really hindered Suicune's viability so mons like Mega Sceptile, Heliolisk, Toxicroak, Mega Ampharos, etc that weren't so common before now seem to be on every other team. Yes, it's still one of the top Pokemon in the tier with its massive bulk to check the large majority of the tier and also still a fearsome set-up sweeper with the standard Crocune set (although this set isn't very common anymore with the popularity of the RoarCune set). Even though this metagame trend (with the influx of Electric- and Grass-types) will drop Suicune, I don't really have a doubt that sometime in the future Suicune will rise back to its normal S-rank position in the VRs with future metagame trends

(B to B+): Agree - Pretty much everything has been said what needs to be said. Absol can help control the entry hazard and status game, forcing the opponent to think twice before clicking either one of those types of moves. Sure it has to get the right opportunity to Mega Evolve, but once it does its definitely a force to be reckoned with. With access to moves like Superpower, Play Rough, Fire Blast, Ice Beam, as well as a set up move in Swords Dance, its really hard to find a sure counter to this Pokemon just because of the coverage, speed tier, and sheer power. (also the drop of Sableye helps :^])

(to A+/S): As for Gyarados I'm gonna have to put this thing at a sure A+ or S rank. I've been playing around with this thing a ton and I can say its utility and versatility is incredible, with its access to Dragon Dance, Taunt, Intimidate, Moxie, EQ/Ice Fang as coverage moves, etc.. With Intimidate, and can become a sure counter to very common Pokemon like Mega Swampert, Doublade, and Cobalion (Stone Edge-less), and can easily set up in their face. I've mostly been using Substitute DD, and a lot of the time, Pokemon that come in to try to counter it can't even break its Substitute or can get Taunted to have the inability to Roar (Bulky waters like Suicune or Empoleon a lot of the time). Also going to mention that its Speed tier is incredible (and kind of trolly tbh), outpacing other common things like Chandelure, Mamoswine, and Gardevoir by 1 Point with a Jolly Nature. Sure, there are surefire answers to Gyara like Chesnaught or Mega Ampharos, but every Pokemon in A+/S has surefire answers. To be completely honest, I'd probably call this a better Feraligatr (as a sweeper), with way more opportunities to set up a DD with its bulk + Intimidate and way more utility (but less immediate power ofc), so imo it has to be A+ or even S rank.

No big opinions on Azelf/Krook, I think they're both still really good at their job regardless of their rank.

 

[Catholic Rabbits]

dodmen Do you think Mega Camerupt could be considered for a rise? I posted an argument on the previous page and it wasn't mentioned after that so I assumed you just didn't see it. By the way, thanks for the updates and the involvement you are doing in the VR thread. It makes me excited to post knowing that I will get a response.

 

[freezai]

Exploud. C-rank.
It has the same power as Porygon-Z on its STAB of choice at the cost of lower speed. In return, it gets to hit through ghosts and marginally better bulk. Well what makes it rankable? Ghost types (read: Sableye) are becoming a lot more prevalent and limits the spammability of PZ's stab. Exploud has no such limitation yet still hits with the same power level as Porygon-Z because lets face it, you are only ever clicking Boomburst or Tri Attack respectively. Just to reiterate what I'm saying because I want my post to look long(er) and well thought out: No ghost type mindgames and Sableye can suck a big one with no actual power loss. No reason why this couldn't make it to C rank.

252+ SpA Choice Specs Exploud Boomburst vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Florges: 204-240 (56.6 - 66.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Adaptability Porygon-Z Tri Attack vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Florges: 204-240 (56.6 - 66.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Replays of exploud: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/uu-314179733 runs through a Sableye stall team.

 

[Take Azelfie]

Exploud. C-rank.
It has the same power as Porygon-Z on its STAB of choice at the cost of lower speed. In return, it gets to hit through ghosts and marginally better bulk. Well what makes it rankable? Ghost types (read: Sableye) are becoming a lot more prevalent and limits the spammability of PZ's stab. Exploud has no such limitation yet still hits with the same power level as Porygon-Z because lets face it, you are only ever clicking Boomburst or Tri Attack respectively. Just to reiterate what I'm saying because I want my post to look long(er) and well thought out: No ghost type mindgames and Sableye can suck a big one with no actual power loss. No reason why this couldn't make it to C rank.

252+ SpA Choice Specs Exploud Boomburst vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Florges: 204-240 (56.6 - 66.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Adaptability Porygon-Z Tri Attack vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Florges: 204-240 (56.6 - 66.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Replays of exploud: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/uu-314179733 runs through a Sableye stall team.

seconding this, I would like to add on that Expoud also has access to Surf and Overheat making it also have different coverage. It also fits better on Trick Room teams for being slower. Definately agreeing with this. I also agree with YABO but I have nothing to add onto his nomination

 

[The Heartless Dictator]

Besides hitting Ghost-types, what else is it good at that Porygon-Z couldn't already do? Specs Boomburst is formidable, but Exploud is only capable of a Specs set because of how much power loss the other potential sets have. On the other hand, Porygon-Z can also run a Choice Scarf besides Specs and also run a AgilPlot set, and the power loss doesn't matter much for it because it has Adaptability (And Nasty Plot).

No hate towards Exploud, but I don't think being able to hit Sableye w/ Scrappy is a big enough niche for it to rise when there are already Pokemon in this tier that are capable of handling Sableye like Florges and M-Houndoom.

 

[pokemonisfun]

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/uu-315569051

Me stalling out an obvious stall counter team featuring exploud. If you're going to post replays of you beating stall than be honest about it. Such a shame because I was part of the bandwagon in gen5 demanding people only post if they have concrete substantive specific experience; as if those words even mean anything to a bunch of people who cherrypick replays.

 

[PK Gaming]

Re:

I think Haxorus's could get away with moving up to at least B- rank. I've been using a bulky Double Dance set and it's actually doing pretty good in the current metagame. The great thing about bulky Haxorus is that you can actually make use of its typing to survive things. It's great when it can be counted on to take a neutral hit or even a super effective hit without instantly dying, while still strong enough to OHKO the important threats at +1/+2. For reference, I gave it enough bulk to survive Florges Moonblast 25% of the with SR (which also does cool stuff like letting you survive Ice Beam from Mega Blastoise) and enough speed to get the jump on +base 90s.

It even has decent match ups against the new drops as well.

 

[Threw]

Aerodactyl to B-
Aerodactyl beats every other lead in the meta hands down, as it's faster than every unboosted mon in the tier and can Taunt the opposing lead before it puts up whatever entry hazards the opponent wants, then comfortably get Stealth Rock up itself. After extensive use, I can attest that, thanks to Sash, the only situations in which I've been unable to get rocks up are when a lead Mamoswine simply uses Ice Shard twice. That Galvantula and Azelf are ranked higher I find criminal, considering they are both shut down by Aero. While they do arguably have more offensive capabilities, they have little viability outside their niche as suicide leads, as they're both very, very frail and are easily beaten by priority when used as LO sweepers/wallbreakers. In light of the fact that Aero does their primary job better than they do, it's tough not to at least bump this fossil up to a tie with Galv.

 

[Funbot28]

dodmen can Gyarados at least get ranked? It's been like half a month already.

 

[FatCorgi]

dodmen can Gyarados at least get ranked? It's been like half a month already.

I feel like people aren't really sure where it ranks, or where to justifiably rank it for now. I see a lot of people say it's just Gatr with flying, while others say it's best UU drop in months. I believe opinions are still settling on how viable Gyarados is in, UU. Mons like Chesnaught, Tangrowth and Zapdos handle it as they should. YABO s stall breaker set is the most innovative thing to come out of the Gyarados Drop, since it handles Chesnaught and Tangrowth incredibly well. In my honest opinion, I can see Gyara being places in some sort of A-/ A ranking. Even if it's just Gatr with Flying ( as some people claim ), with access to intimidate and it's ability to sub DD all over incautious players, Gyara is a leather mon if played correctly. I don't think we should look at what it doesn't do or can't do in comparison to other mons in it's grouping, but instead recognize that it's the best within that group. Just my thoughts on it. I never really wrote anything like this before, but I've been seeing people argue about Gyarados being S and being just B+ or In the As, so I figured I'd throw in my two cents here.

A great way to put it is by simply using the Rule of Yoda. " Do or Do Not, there is no Try". Gyara manages to DO what's it's supposed to, from the moment it comes in, it intimidates. If it's hit with a taunt, it can swap with no real lose of turn momentum or it can hit for good damage. It can use taunt itself, handling anything that might leech it or prevent another mon from setting up. Just a last little edit I Threw into this, since I didn't feel like I was clear enough.

 

[Cheryl.]

I'm surprised that nobody has discussed about this yet:

Feraligatr for A-

As we all know, Gyarados' drop has affected a lot of things, including most playstyles and the viability of some Pokemon, including Feraligatr. Feraligatr now has to compete with Gyarados as a Dragon Dancer, which is it's biggest niche. Gyarados provides more resistances, bulk, and some unique coverage moves (Bounce) at it's arsenal, while Gatr has a bit more power and Ice Punch and Crunch, but less bulk making it harder to set up. Gyarados also provides more utility to a team thanks to it's bulk and typing, along with Intimidate, and also has more versatility than Feraligatr, being able to run more than just DD sets, it can run bulkier sets, Choice Band, etc. Feraligatr does have access to Swords Dance, however, so it still has a good niche at breaking stall a bit more easily than Gyarados, but Gatr's competition for a moveslot with Gyarados has overall lessened his viability, and therefore he should drop.

 

[Hogg]

Since when was DD Gatr's biggest niche? It rose to S largely on the strength of its SD set.

Not even saying I necessarily disagree with it dropping (though I think all the way to A- is a bit too far - Gatr is still really crazy threatening), just that I disagree with the reasoning.

 

[canasian]

I think putting Gyarados in the A/A- range is too low, I'd put it closer to the top of A or even the lower end of A+. Not to directly compare their roles, but if you're going to run exactly one "physically offensive Water-type" on your team I'd probably choose it in most scenarios over Mega Sharpedo (which I think could be below Zapdos and even Cobalion in the A rank but I know that's up to the ranking team).

If Gatr drops, it shouldn't be lower than 1-2 notches below Gyarados in the same rank imo; even if you're comparing them solely on the DD sets, they set up on different things because of Gyara's fighting resistance and ground immunity vs. Feraligatr's rock neutrality and ice resistance; beyond that, Feraligatr has his SD set with strong and well-typed priority, while Gyarados has its bulkier sets to its name. I'm also inclined to say that Feraligatr has better synergy with "Water Spam" teams that feature Crawdaunt or Sharpedo thanks to their more similar coverage options wearing checks down for each other, while Gyarados has many separate checks thanks to its Flying or Ground coverage.
Overall I think I'd ideally put Gyarados as right above Feraligatr in A+ while leaving Gatr where he is.

 

[The Heartless Dictator]

I'm surprised that nobody has discussed about this yet:

Feraligatr for A-

As we all know, Gyarados' drop has affected a lot of things, including most playstyles and the viability of some Pokemon, including Feraligatr. Feraligatr now has to compete with Gyarados as a Dragon Dancer, which is it's biggest niche. Gyarados provides more resistances, bulk, and some unique coverage moves (Bounce) at it's arsenal, while Gatr has a bit more power and Ice Punch and Crunch, but less bulk making it harder to set up. Gyarados also provides more utility to a team thanks to it's bulk and typing, along with Intimidate, and also has more versatility than Feraligatr, being able to run more than just DD sets, it can run bulkier sets, Choice Band, etc. Feraligatr does have access to Swords Dance, however, so it still has a good niche at breaking stall a bit more easily than Gyarados, but Gatr's competition for a moveslot with Gyarados has overall lessened his viability, and therefore he should drop.

Whatever you're smokin, I would definitely try it out.

In all seriousness, Gyrados dropping may have given Feraligatr a bit of competition, but that only warrants for the DD set. Even then, does that competition by itself warrant Gatr to drop all the way down to A-? Even with two sets, Gatr is still a friggin monster. It also has its own advantages over Gyra, as it isn't SR weak and not 4x weak to Electric since they're becoming more common. It has less bulk than Gyra, but what bulk it does have is still good enough for it to setup on some mons.

I would say A+ is still a good ranking for it.

 

[Take Azelfie]

Virizion C ---> C+ / B-

Been using this thing a lot recently, and heck yeah it has been putting in a lot of work. With such an amazing speed tier I find it pretty easy to set-up and sweep especially since like half the tier is weak to it lol. And honestly this just needs more recognition. I does have Stone Edge to even hit Salamence which is cool. I don't really know what else to say about this mon except it is really good and better than C.

 

[Threw]

I couldn't agree more with moving Virizion up. I've used it a lot in spite of more than a few people telling me not to, but I was very pleased with how it performs. Defensively, its typing is less than ideal, but offensively, as was said, it gets a lot of great coverage; the fact is, Viriz is an extremely underrated check to all the bulky waters in UU and is the only non-mega Grass-type that can punch big holes in teams at any given time. It can even switch in on Gyarados and, since Bounce is so easy to play around, hopefully nab a KO with Stone Edge.

It's also worth noting that, in theory, thanks to its phenomenal special bulk, there's potential for a defensive CM set; in fact, it actually has better special bulk than Chesnaught has physical bulk. However, I've never tried it, and Viriz doesn't seem to have as many support moves, so I can't necessarily speak to that.

In any case, I think it's a mon that awkardly fits between C+ and B-, but i honestly cringe to think of something so powerfully anti-meta right now being lumped in the same category as uber-niche mons like Moltres and Dugtrio, so i believe it at least deserves to be in B range.

 

[The Heartless Dictator]

I haven't used Virizion too much, but with the increase in usage of Grass-types, Virizion does have the benefit of moving up. However, I wouldn't move it to B- or B rank. C+ would be a good place for it. A big problem with Virizion is that a lot of common Pokemon in this tier resist either one or both it's main STAB moves, especially the likes of Salamence and Zapdos, who are pretty common atm. There are a bunch of mons that are weak to it's STABs, but there are a lot more that resist them too. It has usable coverage moves, but they're shaky at best since SE has shitty accuracy and can be PP stalled easily by Zapdos. Chesnaught on the other hand doesn't have that kind of problem since it plays more defensively as a spiker. Virizion also has to run offensive sets, which aren't terrible, but because it's main STABS are resisted a lot, it has a harder time sweeping, since all it takes for your opponent to do is send in a resist and you gotta hope that your coverage move hits or switch out to play safely. Not to mention that Mega Aero is still common and completely preys on it.

Honestly, I would still pick Chesnaught as a Water-type resist, regardless of how much SpDef it has compared to Virizion. It has a lot more going for it thanks to its support movepool, which Virizion can't really compare to. As a sweeper, even Mega Scept does a better job at that with its own SD set, even if it takes up a Mega Slot. If Virizion rises, C+ is good enough in my opinion. B- or B are giving it a little too much credit.

PS. Bounce is easy to play around if you have an Electric mon. If it's gone or you didn't bring one, haha...

 

[Century Express]

Suicune is fine dropping to A+ for me. I don't think the new drops really hindered him in my opinion, but I've always seen him as a mon which needs considerable support, regardless of the metagame trends. It's paired often with a Cleric because it gives too free turns while resting, and he needs fundamental sinergy to not lose too much momentum against Electric-type mons (especially if they are Volt Switch users) and brute attackers. I know these reasons makes a integral part of sinergy, but it's still a form of support which he often needs to be really effective. For example, if he wants to act as a win condition, it's usually a bad idea to switch in too early against LO Mamoswine or CB Krook even though Suicune might be able to check both, because he'll eventually looping Rest turns, and he'll be trying only to checking them (and making the Suicune user lose momentum), instead of trying to win the game itself. People also are overprepared for it, especially against some "emmergency buttons" like Whimsicott and Haze Tenta which i find really easy to slap on a lot of squads. Still, he sounds perfecty fine at the top of A+ because he's one of the main reasons why Water-resists / immunities are so relevant on this meta, and if you don't prepare for him, he will 6-0 you.

Also, any considerations of moving Tentacruel from B+ to A-? He's a amazing spinner (maybe the only decent spinner on this meta along Mega Blastoise, Forry and Donphan sucks), doesn't share the difficuly of dealing with Doublade and Chandelure when you compare it with Forretress, and he's able to absorb opposing Toxic Spikes AND set-up Toxic Spikes, giving it a extra niche over Mega Blastoise in Bulky or Balance builds, if you ignore Blastoise's offensive presence. Even on defensive variants, I've been testing a hybrid spread enough to speed creep 90~92 Base speed mons + Full HP, and it's amazing. You keep a solid Fire- and Fight-resist, and takes a full advantage on stuff like Mamoswine, Lucario, Heracross and (non-Scarf) Krook and Chandelure trying to revenge kill it.

 

[Cactrune]

I fully support Tentacruel moving to A- at least. It's definitely one of the best spinners available, and its typing+movepool make it a great pick for balance teams. It works well with a number of other good defensive 'mons, and I personally use it alongside such Pokemon as Salamence, Chesnaught, Sableye, Hydreigon, Snorlax and Bronzong, all of which have decent synergy with it. I think that it can be a bit passive at times, but it does get Haze, Knock Off, Acid Spray, and the legendary move that is Scald to offset that. It also works pretty well as a check to Infernape, Cobalion, and other Fire and Fighting-types. It's splashable, it has great utility, and it's got good typing, and I think it deserves to be A-.