BSS Community Create A Team

[Nelson Tangela]

Well you can always scout greninjas move a bit by switching into immunities. Say you start with ferrothorn you can switch to azumarril that tanks a move (it will not use gunk shot ofcourse against a ferrothorn) then see if it has hp fire and then switch back. The chance of encountering a greninja with all three moves is really rare: hidden power is used 7% of all greninjas and not all hidden power is hidden power fire on greninja. This way it can be beaten even when it is unpredictable. The chance that zapdos and mega manectric have fire electric ice coverage is higher (51% of zapdos and 49% of manectric).

The whole core is slower than Greninja. Aggressive predicts and switching will backfire fast against a somewhat decent opponent. This might work against other mons, but sounds like a recipe for desaster against Greninja... honestly...

PS: Greninja is alot more common than Zapdos and Manectric combined btw. It is also rising in usage...

EDIT: Greninja is currently #11 in usage. Zapdos barely makes Top 30. Manectric isn't even in the Top 50. lol

 

[freekhoorn]

The whole core is slower than Greninja. Aggressive predicts and switching will backfire fast against a somewhat decent opponent. This might work against other mons, but sounds like a recipe for desaster against Greninja... honestly...

PS: Greninja is alot more common than Zapdos and Manectric combined btw.

Not that much: greninja 13.5% and zapdos and manectric 9,8%, while the possibility of having that specific movepool is seven times as big. Im not saying greninja is not a threat btw and we sure need to do something about it in the future. Specially defensive rotom-h with sitrus berry can beat greninja btw also if i guess so its not that the team will be extremely more weak against it. (This is btw another thing that rotom-h can do that heatran can not).

It does win against greninja one vs one:

236 SpA Life Orb Greninja Scald vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Rotom-H: 112-135 (71.3 - 85.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Sitrus Berry recovery

And t-bolt koes after that

 

[a0161613]

Something I wanted to put out there was the possibility of a pairing previously suggested by cant say. Raikou & Swampert (or something similar) could still be interesting.

 

[Nelson Tangela]

Not that much: greninja 13.5% and zapdos and manectric 9,8%, while the possibility of having that specific movepool is seven times as big. Im not saying greninja is not a threat btw and we sure need to do something about it in the future. Specially defensive rotom-h with sitrus berry can beat greninja btw also if i guess so its not that the team will be extremely more weak.

It does win against greninja one vs one:

236 SpA Life Orb Greninja Scald vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Rotom-H: 112-135 (71.3 - 85.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Sitrus Berry recovery

And t-bolt koes after that

1. Surf and Hydro Pump are used and both are above 10%. Combined they are on ~27% of Greninja.

2. Being 2HKO'd just means that you can't safely switch in. This is not Flash Clash, dude.

3. A smart opponent might guess that you're EV'd to survive and go for a Dark Pulse or something first to chip you, if you throw your oven infront of his Greninja. There is no way that you OHKO a Dark-type Greninja with your uninvested Tbolt.

4. I don't really care enough to discuss this further and keep spamming this thread with this, since I've said anything that I had to say. Whatever you guys decide will be fine with me.

 

[freekhoorn]

1. Surf and Hydro Pump are used and both are above 10%. Combined they are on ~27% of Greninja.

2. Being 2HKO'd just means that you can't safely switch in. This is not Flash Clash, dude.

3. A msart opponent will guess that you're EV'd to survive and go for a Dark Pulse or something first to chip you.

Im not saying rotom-h could safely switchin to greninja. I think you are missing my point: im not saying that rotom-h is the perfect answer for greninja at the moment. And i already said i agreed that it is true that the team does have a weakness to Greninja. We need an answer to it still.

At a#s point: raikou and swampert do seem fitting to this team as they can switch in to those electric pokemon and are also specially based which complements the three physical pokemon.

 

[Pyritie]

I'm going to go with a slightly different rotom-heat that adds some much-needed speed to the team and still has the ability to fuck over cresselia and porygon2 and stop electrics from taking advantage of our team:

Rotom-Heat @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Volt Switch
- Overheat
- Will-O-Wisp
- Trick

Outspeeds everything up to (and including) base 135's. Scarf will-o-wisp is a bit weird but it lets it burn stuff quickly so they don't hit as hard, letting you then switch into something else more easily. Can volt switch for momentum. Walls like cress and p2 utterly hate being choice-locked, so this lets us deal with them without needing something like toxic or taunt.

It can't switch into as much as jroxas's but it can still one-shot (and outspeed) greninja (and can switch into any of its attacks that aren't water type, although then rotom-h won't OHKO it any more unless it's switched to some other type weak to electric/fire)

 

[Omastar68]

Covering the majority of these problem mons in one is a tall order, but I think this is a good idea:

Heatran @ Chople Berry
Ability: Flash Fire
Level: 50
EVs: 212 HP / 252 SpA / 44 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Fire Blast / Magma Storm
- Earth Power
- Ancient Power
- Toxic

This is a very clunky-looking set but it's specialized for the team. "FerroTran" is a decent core to begin with, the shared Fighting weakness not only covered easily by Salamence and Azumarill, but also mitigated by Heatran's Berry, while Ferrothorn and Salamence have Heatran's Ground weakness covered. The Chople Berry is honestly there only so it has a fighting chance against Thundurus variants of all stripes, allowing Heatran to stomach an LO Thunderbolt followed by a Focus Blast and still win 1v1. But you never know, it might be clutch in a situational emergency, too. The HP and SpD investment with a Calm nature give Heatran the most special bulk, avoiding the 2HKO from LO Thundurus Thunderbolt. Special Attack is maxed out because Heatran needs all the power it can handle if it's going to muscle past some of the threats that plague the team. If you're not really worried about having the extra SpA, you can run with the 212 HP / 4 Def / 44 SpA / 156 SpD / 92 Spe spread as mentioned on the analysis, as this set is still capable of 2HKOing Thundurus with such a spread. Toxic is in the last slot to let Heatran get rid of Cresselia/Porygon2 for the team much more easily.

This seems pretty good, but the biggest problem I notice is 252 SpA and a Calm nature. Tran's higher SpA means Modest with SpD EVs is better, or at least it should be.

I think Flamethrower and Lava Plume are also good ideas for attacks, but you'd run les SpA with the latter. Chople Berry seems kinda odd at first with the situational nature of type resist berries, especially when fighting isn't even Tran's biggest weakness. But I think it' justifiable with the team's current problems. I also agree with the other moves, I was doubting Ancientpower at first, but I thot about it and realized it's probably more reliable vs Thund, and gets Char Y and stuff.

Tran deals with quite a few threats to the team, but makes some problems too. Suicune was kind of a pain anyways, and now it's really bad I think. Nothing really wins against it except Ferro if it somehow never gets burned, highly booted Mence, or Azu with crit. Garchomp is bad, and I don't think it's just limited to SD. Ferro depletes itself on Rough Skin while not doing TOO much, and fearing possible fire moves. Mence needs boosts and maybe status to win which isn't really likely. Azu has PR but that can miss, and it'll take at least one Rough Skin best case scenario. It's also chunked heavily even by non CB or boosted Chomp, so if it's already low health...And Heatran just dies to all Chomp in any scenario that's feasible.

Kangaskhan I don't really like the match up. Kinda rushed o can't get all the data maybe, but I know Ice Punch/Beam and Fire Punch/Blast aren' unheard of. Those get rid of Mence and Ferro, though Mence also dies fine to Rock Slde, especialy in conjunction with Secret Power. Azu really can't win often at all, and never vs full health Kang. Tran can do ok vs. non EQ, but that can be a lot too hope for, and RS shenanigans still do good. Really Kang is same kinda deal as Greninja where probably no on beats everything but it has los of options and will often get you.

Slowbro is really unbeatable, not even any chance of crit hax on the mega.

Rotom-Heat @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpD / 4 Spe
Modest Nature
- Volt Switch
- Overheat
- Will-O-Wisp
- Thunderbolt

I'll nominate Rotom-Heat again. It's still good for the reasons I mentioned before (we still need a solid Thundurus solution), and is possibly even a better fit now that we've added the Talonflame-hating Ferrothorn.

Since the Ferrothorn build we've chosen both acts as a Spore absorber and has Leftovers, I'm recommending the conventional tank build from the dex entry.

Gengar @ Gengarite
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 188 HP / 116 Def / 4 SpA / 4 SpD / 196 Spe
Timid Nature
- Destiny Bond
- Hypnosis
- Hex
- Focus Blast

Now that we have a full core selected, it's worth considering a backup mega. Casino Gengar has been my go-to for that role recently. In addition to the "delete target Pokemon with Destiny Bond" utility that comes built-in with Mega Gengar, this build has the ability to, with some luck, cripple and remove multiple members of the opponent's team.

Hypnosis is great in general with this fast and bulky build, but it's especially effective when trying to avoid Sucker Punch mind games and on predicted switches the turn that Gengar mega-evolves.

Focus Blast is primarily for the Tyranitars that stall teams almost always bring against Gengar, but it's also useful against Kangaskhan, Porygon2, Ferrothorn, and more. (Missing doesn't hurt as much when they're asleep!)

No matter how well you craft your team, sometimes your opponent has one or more mons that you can't deal with effectively or their team just generally matches up well against yours. In these cases, coin flipping your way to victory can provide a better chance of winning than anything else you can do. Casino Gengar provides that option.

I still like Rotom-h on this team, but I don't get a Modest nature with 252 SpD evs. A Calm nature with SpA evs would probably be better cuz Rotom forms have slightly higher base defenses than base SpA.

Casino Gengar is much the same for me, just being a realy good chance to ruin something and rarely ever being a bad pick. Why not 252 HP tho, since Gengar's base HP is pretty low and lower than its defenses.

While I think these two would be good to add, there's still big Suicune problems. Rotom-h can't really beat boosted Cunes or faster ones that CM before it attacks. Gengar can be ok, but if Chesto Berry is intact it'll heal off a Hypnosis, and non statused Hex doesn't do that much. Plus there's the possibility it already has cm boosts and won't take much damage at all. Greninja is still pretty bad, as are Chomp(scarf EQ on Gengar for instance,)

Still I like these two-both deal fairly well with Slowbro, which is good since that was previously unbeatable. Kang is a bit of a problem still, but Gengar can fish with Hypnosis against it and kill weakened ones with FB. Rotom-h kinda just loses tho, not living DE, and the ones without that will almost certainly have Rock Slide.

 

[a0161613]

So I'm going to shamelessly rip off a previous suggested post but I think we're kind of at the point that it is OK. So this is about Raikou plus a Ground type.

Raikou @ Choice Specs
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Volt Switch
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power Ice
- Shadow Ball/Extrasensory

Raikou is specifically the Specs set, pivot in and out of the match and use powerful attacks when the opportunity strikes.

The partner is something I've nommed twice now. For a grand total of one vote and I didn't even get one for this particular set.

Mamoswine @ Assault Vest
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 44 HP / 156 Atk / 4 Def / 252 SpD / 52 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Ice Shard
- Icicle Spear
- Rock Tomb/Fissure

AV Mamo can take on Greninja and Thundurus, fearing only their fighting type attacks to any extent - even Scald and Hydro Pump can't KO from full, these same attacks would do much less damage to Raikou (& Azu and Mence for that matter.) The set came from the analysis and seems to have all areas covered.

 

[CoolStoryBrobat]

This seems pretty good, but the biggest problem I notice is 252 SpA and a Calm nature. Tran's higher SpA means Modest with SpD EVs is better, or at least it should be.

And in my second Post I said

I've tested the team with Heatran on it and while Heatran definitely helps check Thundurus and other Electrics pretty easily, the 212 HP / 4 Def / 44 SpA / 156 SpD / 92 Spe EV spread might be a little more ideal.

I think Flamethrower and Lava Plume are also good ideas for attacks, but you'd les SpA with the latter.

Flamethrower is okay, but assuming you're packing the spread I mentioned above, even though Flamethrower and even Lava Plume can 2HKO offensive Thundurus (Lava Plume has just a 50% chance of 2HKOing but the burn chance helps), you are doing this to bulky Thundurus:

44 SpA Heatran Flamethrower vs. 244 HP / 0 SpD Thundurus: 79-94 (42.7 - 50.8%) -- 3.1% chance to 2HKO
44 SpA Heatran Lava Plume vs. 244 HP / 0 SpD Thundurus: 70-84 (37.8 - 45.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

Situations like this are where Fire Blast shines:

44 SpA Heatran Fire Blast vs. 244 HP / 0 SpD Thundurus: 97-115 (52.4 - 62.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Chople Berry seems kinda odd at first with the situational nature of type resist berries, especially when fighting isn't even Tran's biggest weakness. But I think it' justifiable with the team's current problems.

I did say it was a specialized set, while the set is meant to combat most Electric-types and some other threats 1v1 it's also supposed to act as a "catch-all" check to most variants of Thundurus, primarily ones that pack Focus Blast, which would otherwise beat it 1v1.

I was doubting Ancientpower at first, but I thot about it and realized it's probably more reliable vs Thund, and gets Char Y and stuff.

Also helps with Talonflame too :D (another threat our team is kinda really weak to in its current state)

Suicune was kind of a pain anyways, and now it's really bad I think. Nothing really wins against it except Ferro if it somehow never gets burned,

I gotta disagree with that...Leech Seed still lets Ferrothorn handle Suicune 1v1, even if it's burned it's taking a huge chunk of Suicune's HP out before going down. And if it's Substitute Suicune then Power Whip is still strong enough to break a Sub while burned:

0 Atk burned Ferrothorn Power Whip vs. 156 HP / 60 Def Suicune: 103-123 (27.1 - 32.3%) -- 59% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery

The only Suicune I'd be worried about is Bold Suicune with Substitute, which I don't think is really a thing far as I know, or Sheer Cold variants. Everything else still catches a fade from Ferrothorn. I agree with everything else you said, there's still a number of offensive threats our team struggles to deal with thus far, but we still do have three slots left to address these issues with. Garchomp, Greninja, Mega Heracross, Mega Kangaskhan, and Mega Slowbro are definitely among the mons we need to look out for. But while looking out for them I think we should still pick whichever Pokemon checks the most threats capable of dealing with the 3 we've all settled on using for now, and go from there.

 

[a0161613]

Well we don't need to worry about Sheer Cold Suicune.....

 

[Omastar68]

Fire Blast can miss though. Still better vs. bulky Thund I guess, but not totally necessary since those probably won't have Focus Blast so Tran can still win.

Anyways, most Suicune are still Rest(checked and surprisingly it's down to 66.5%, but that's still a lot and liable go up,) so I'm not sure how Ferro deals with it at all, let alone 1v1 which I'm pretty sure means both are at full health and unchanged, no boosts or w/e.

Suicune can comfortably take two Power Whips, .4% to 2hko max Def Suicune, unless maybe it got a LS already, but using that is another chance for Scald to burn then all bets are off. After burning, which is fairly likely assuming it gets three or four chances with Scald, it can proceed to set cms or chip with Ice Beam. Or switch cuz it did its main thing and crits can happen. The somewhat rare Reflect and Helmet Suicune also makes itself take much less damage and Ferro eats helmet. That one might not have Rest, but if it sets Reflect and buns its done plenty, and can then just switch out to lose LS.

So Suicune is usually still a problem.

I like Heatran and it certainly wouldn't be terrible here, but it leaves some holes, and it's impotant to decide if those are worth what it brings to the table.

Lopppuny @ Loppunite
Ability: Limber
EVs: 4 HP/ 252 Atk/ 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- High Jump Kick
- Return
- Encore
- Substitute

Who knew the iPad is good for anything, images with that never had the box around them. Anyways, I think Loppuny could be good on this team. It's one of the best things to kill Kang with, faster than its mega even before mega evolving itself, and only really fearing the 10% for HJK to miss.

Greninja dies to HJK unless it's sash, and Loppuny can still 2hko standard Chomp without risking HJK,and might even be able to Encore it into SR o w/e so it doesn't have to take an Outrage which might kill after RS recoil and definitely if it's a CB or Adamant Scarf Chomp. Speaking of Encore, it can be good in so many ways, such as Encoring Cress into Moonlight to drain it out, or not mega evolving to keep the para immunity and Encoring T-Wave.

The two big problems I see with Loppuny are Slowbro and Zapdos. The former doesn't take much damage and can hit with SE STAB or Scald to try to burn, but Loppuny can switch in on a predicted Slack Off or CM and at worst force a switch with Encore. Zapdos is worse, since Toxic puts you on a timer and so many Zap are helmet. T-Wave is relatively rare and probably gonna go down further since Zap has Static now, so that's one less move to possibly Encore. You can still switch
in on a Roost, but even if Zap can't attack it still creates problems for the mega with Static.

 

[cant say]

So you explain how Suicune is a massive problem, then go on to nominate something that flat out loses to it, while beating things that Ferrothorn already walls?

 

[Omastar68]

hmm. Looks like even Adamant just 3hkos normal Cune. It does that before Cune 3hkos cuz faaster, but not if it gets burned. It can Encore Rest, CM, Reflect, Sub, Reflect, and Protect, then just chip safely with Return, or force a switch. So no perfect answer but you're exaggerating ho bad the match up is.

Ferro is its #13 teammate which probably isn't saying much, but shows they don't completely overlap. I guess one other problem mentioned earlier is Mega Hera. They rarely ever run a safe move o Encore, much less use it. Return won't do too much, though it is very likely to 2hko standard Hera that lack CC, which is about a quarter of them.

They do overlap a bit, but it's not like it's bad to cover something with more than one mon(especiaily Kang, and don't forget fire moves. About a fifth run Punch, and 6.8% run Blast, which might not be a huge percent, but you see Kang so much it's far from negligible. And you run it so yea.) The compounded fighting weakness isn't fun, but Blaziken dies hard to Mence and Azu, and Conk loses to Mence if it can ohko and Azu all of the time with a standard AV set.

Talonflame becomes an issue tho, no doubt. Mence can do prettygood and so can Azu, but Azu doesn't switch in well.

Mene is also the only mega in Lop's top 20 teammates, so that means it's the most common mon for double mega with Lop. Lop isn't in Mence's top teammates, but, well..vote for it or don't. No skin off my back.

 

[6tennis]

Reserving NP Thund

 

[Xander of Nohr]

yay an underused mon!

muh anaconda don't (Eelektross) @ Assault Vest
Ability: Levitate
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Giga Drain
- Flamethrower
- Volt Switch
- Thunderbolt

Basically: Lead then proceed to trade kills or safely get your sweeper in with a nice and slow Volt Switch, which is something this team lacks right now but would definitely appreciate having. Overall it fares well in a 1v1 against a lot of things because it lacks an exploitable weakness. Furthermore, It also has a nice offensive/defensive synergy going on with Ferrothorn and Salamence so it's pretty much interchangeable with Azumarill depending of what is it that you need checked the most.
Keep in mind that this set can't stomach insanely strong moves like Close Combat from Mega Lucario or Double Edge from Mega KKhan. Fun to use nevertheless, though.

 

[a0161613]

So we are done for nominations once more.

6tennis
AV Tank Conkeldurr
Nasty Plot Thundurus

CoolStoryBrobat
Chople Berry Heatran

jroxas (I’ve assumed these are separate nominations rather than a core, let me know if this is incorrect please – I’ll edit ASAP)
Tank Rotom H
Casino Gengar

ethan06
Naive Life Orb Greninja
Choice Scarf Mamoswine

Pyritie
Choice Scarf Rotom H

Numbers (me)
Choice Specs Raikou & AV Mamoswine

Omastar68
Mega Lopunny

Xander of Nohr
AV Eelektross

Vote away!

 

[Demantoid]

6tennis' AV Tank Conkeldurr

Helps against Greinja and Thundurus. Only thing is that it makes the team kind of weak to Talon. Might want a different ev spread but that could be changed later

 

[Omastar68]

I'm partial to the AV Eelektross(but with Acid Spray instead of Giga Drain, and maybe something other than t-bolt,) but I'm gonna vote for Pyritie's Scarf Rotom-h.

TrickScarf really ruins Cress, P2, and Suicune(so does Acid Spray, and isn't one use that's susceptible to switches.) Slowbro, Skarmory, etc. hate electric STAB and Thund and Talon lose quite plainly. Manectric doesn't like Overheat, tho it's really bad if it switches in on t-bolt and rotom-h is still scarfed. Kang and Chomp really dislike WoW too. So seems to cover all the gaps to some extent, and has its water weakness covered by everything else.

 

[Nelson Tangela]

6tennis' AV Tank Conkeldurr

 

[6tennis]

CSB Chople Heatran

 

[freekhoorn]

Pyritie's Scarf Rotom-h i think this works against a lot of threats of the current team, its only the fourth mon so not all threats have to be covered as well, and i like it being special because we already have three physical mons.

 

[Fischgrat]

6tennis' AV Conkeldurr.

 

[NOVED]

jroxas Rotom-H

 

[cant say]

jroxas' Rotom-Heat

 

[a0161613]

Eelektross

I'm not going to deny that part of the appeal is using something very underused. No exploitable weaknesses is a selling point and the option to add in Acid Spray is big especially with the momentum given by Volt Switch.