Monotype Viability Rankings V2

[Arash]

I don't have strong opinions about those 5 except for mega houndoom, who should stay in B. Being neutral to fairy with access to poison moves sounds great for dark, until you realize that you have crappy defenses and still lose to azumarill. Also, even if mega sableye gets banned, dark would rather run mega sharpedo.

If mega houndoom was instead a 3rd stage evo for houndoom and didn't eat your mega slot I'd vote A, but as of now it seems like more of a B rank

 

[Seo.]

Houndooms typing is great aswell as its access to Sludge Bomb to help out more with fairys, however as Arash said, its defenses are terrible which render it unable to take anything but resisted hits. Regardless if Mega Sableye gets banned or not i still feel like the. Despite of that, Mega Houndoom should remain in B Rank

 

[LemonJello88]

Just some spelling changes that I've noticed and I'd like to point out to help:
Krookidle --> Krookodile (Dark Rankings)
Klefiki --> Klefki (Fairy Rankings)
Levanny --> Leavanny (Grass Rankings)
Volcanian --> Volcanion (Water Rankings)
Amoongus --> Amoonguss (Poison Rankings)

I'll edit this into my post later. Tagging iVid

 

[Seo.]

Garchomp is better off as a Stealth Rock Setter and a Lead, since dragon does appreciate hazards on the opponents field due to it making it some what easier for mons such as Dragonite and Kyurem-Black to late game sweep and revenge kill. So for that reason i believe Mega Garchomp should stay in B Rank

 

[Tyke]

Sableye to B rank (Ghost)

Just funny that it isn't ranked yet on Ghost. It's typing helps it sponge some dangerous dark attacks, although not all. It has Prankster, letting it wreck havoc with taunt, will o wisp, and recover stall. It's not as reliable a switch in as it's Mega, and certainly isnt' taking knock offs from the likes of Bisharp or Hoopa-U dark pulses, but it's a decent switch in to some of the weaker dark STABs in the meta. It should be B rank at the moment, pending A rank if Mega-Sableye is banned.

 

[Crimson Torrent]

Discussion #2

(Dark) B--->A

(Water) A--->B

(Steel) B--->A

(Dragon) B--->A

(Fighting) S--->A
Discussion #1 Change(s)

(Psyshic) A-->B - Has such a high opportunity cost and is not the greatest mega on Psyshic

(Psyshic) B--->A- Good Stealth Rocker and good fairy check. It also can run Choice Scarf and has Healing Wish

(Flying) A--->B Same reason as Gallade but not being able to use incarnate form

(Bug) Stays B- Way too controversial to change

(Fire) B--->A- B was placeholder Rank and now A seems nice seeing how it has fit into the metagame

Other Change(s)

(Grass) Unranked--->C- It's not that bad has Wil-o-Wisp and can block Rapid Spins it's alright

(Ice) D--->C- It's a decent suicide lead and summons hail

(Ice) C--->B- Both Megas on Ice should be same rank

(Ice) D--->C Was a change before just didn't get applied

(Bug) Unranked--->C- Durant is fast and can pick off some threats Omega's post says it all

Gourgeist-Super was already made B rank in the last VR thread though.
Sorry, I should've just said that earlier. It was just never added to the list for some reason.

Unless you're changing it to C, which i wouldn't really advocate. I don't remember the exact components that make up each rank anymore or if it was said anywhere, but Gourgeist-Super has been more useful than anything else in C Rank. I've actually found myself interchanging it w/ the other two B rank 'mons when needed, and wouldn't ever really trade it out for the C's.

 

[Zap]

I'm pretty sure I already made this post, but w/e

Lapras (Ice) : B -> A rank

Lapras @ Choice Specs
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 168 HP / 252 SpA / 88 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 30 SpA / 30 Spe
- Freeze-Dry
- Frost Breath
- Surf
- Hidden Power [Fire]

Helps tremendously in the water matchup with Water Absorb and Freeze dry
Takes neutral damage to steel moves
Has decent special bulk for a type that lacks it
Frost Breath comes clutch vs CM setters (Clefable)

 

[6ti]

b --> c rank on flying
honestly, i'm not sure as to why this thing is even b ranked. as a suicide lead, its main job, it's outclassed by suicide skarmory (imo it is, this can be discussed). the only real advantage it has over skarm is marginally higher speed. however, skarm has more hazards, can live more hits which = more hazards, and can kill itself w/ custap brave bird after it's in range. on another note, balance flying severely outclasses hyper offensive flying. its a essentially a niche mon on a niche team thats gets outclassed.

 

[Zmeeed]

I think Mega Garchomp should stay B rank in Dragon rankings. No offense, but... I had pretty dark days using Mega Garchomp.

- While its "Mega" opportunity cost is not very high, you still won't have a good suicide lead or a decent physical tank because you can't just run two Garchomp, obviously (Druddigon fullfilling these niches is not very advised). Mega Garchomp can set up Stealth Rock as well, but from my experience it's just better straight off breaking through the opposition while it can.
- Speed. Probably this is the main reason Mega Garchomp is so overlooked. It hits 311 Speed at best, which is slower than a ton of threats sitting in 90-100 Speed tier and makes Garchomp yet another "Mega Gardevoir's breakfast". You can hold on Mega Evolving to have that jump over some threat, but you might just end up using regular Garchomp for the most of battle.
- Needs support. It begs for Tailwind or Dual Screens to stay little longer and wreck more stuff. Sadly, the former was easily played around by either Fake Out, Protect, priority, switching between Ground- or Fire-resistant Pokemon, or even two-three of these at once. Dual Screens, however, will be a pain for your opponent if they don't have a very sturdy Defogger who doesn't fear a strong Rock or Fire move much (like Mandibuzz)
- The utility of Rough Skin often outweighs Sand Force due to situativeness of the latter one.

Mega Garchomp still has got offensive power rivaling Black Kyurem (as well as arguably better offensive movepool than it) and valued "steelbreaking" capabilites provided by STAB-boosted Earthquake and relatively strong Fire Blast, but it's not as easy to use and as effective as the rest of A rank Dragon Pokemon, so I think Mega Garchomp should stay where it's now.

P.S. I would like to note Perish Song on that Choice Specs Lapras set. Yes, it is idiotic, but it was my saving grace against Mega Sableye and "CroCune" when I had to deal with them. The former will just spam Recover against your Frost Breathes, and the latter doesn't mind Freeze-Dry much starting from +2.

P.P.S. I'll post my thoughts about "Goodra vs. Dragalge" debate when I get free from RL stuff (id est few hours later)

 

[DEG]

B to A: Agree.​

I've been playing with Mega Houndoom for months now and it's a great underrated Pokemon. Dark is one of the types that doesn't have a lot of viable special attackers and Mega Houndoom fits the criteria. With its unique typing in Dark/Fire it is a gift to dark teams as they have trouble with Steel- and Bug-types. The combination of both STABS in Dark Pulse and Fire Blast can hit quite a good number of the metagame and on top of that it has a great coverage move in Sludge Bomb which helps in the Fairy matchup, plus Nasty Plot boosting its specially offensive capabilities. It is not as frail as some people think, it has okay defenses allowing it to live some attacks, it can live a mach punch from Breloom. I don't really see how is that comparable to Mega Sharpedo, both fulfill different roles and are used on different teams.

 

[Zap]

I would have to disagree on the Mega Houndoom boost from B to A.
A lot of what DEG said makes sense, but I feel like the same thing is covered by hydreigon on dark teams, and that doesn't require a mega slot. Hydreigon has fire coverage, fairy coverage in flash cannon, can even run a mixed LO variant, or even a scarf if need be. Mega houndoom is not that frail, and it's typing does help in some situations, but it is weak to rocks and susceptible to other hazards, which is a bigger issue for non mega sab teams, so that's what makes it really frail. And another matchup dark sucks against is water, and mega houndoom doesnt really help with that. Another issue i found while using mega houndoom was finding the right mon to mega against. The speed jump from base 95 to base 115 is a huge leap, and I often found myself wanting protect to mega it safely just to get the speed.

 

[terrors]

Thoughts on the current discussion:
Shoutouts to Tyke for helping me out.

(Dark) B -> A.
I think DEG summed it up perfectly. I tried out Mega Houndoom in my laddering session for Sablenite Suspect test and it proved to be extremely valuable, between its great special attack / speed tier, fire immunity, valuable type and coverage that helps vs Fairy and Bug. Not to mention being able to use Nasty Plot turns it into a deadly set up sweeper. It does have a weakness to Stealth Rock, and overall pretty thin bulk but it provides a good special attacker that Dark doesn't have many options for which is why I think it deserves A Rank.

(Water) A -> B.
Alomomola unfortunately never finds a spot on balanced water. Water has too many viable options to give up a slot on such a passive Pokemon especially with the release of Volcanion limiting Balanced Water's options. Stall Water does find Alomomola necessary as a wish passer, however, but stall water is not used nearly enough to make it an A rank 'mon. All in all, I think Alomomola deserves nothing more than B Rank.

(Steel) B -> A.
I don't have nearly as much experience with Steel to write a proper argument but Jirachi rarely finds a spot on Steel according to my experience in facing Steel teams. Whenever I do see Jirachi, its usually as an Assault Vest user (I think Acast invented that set) or special scarfer and in my opinion, its outclassed and usually useless in most matchups. That is why I think Jirachi deserves to stay at B Rank but like I said before, I don't have a solid opinion on this because of my lack of experience with Steel.

(Dragon) B -> A.
Honestly, i'm surprised its not already A Rank. It outclasses lead regular garchomp as a stealth rocker in terms of bulk and packs a much stronger punch. The only thing it misses out on is rough skin + rocky helmet damage but in most matchups you can stay non mega to get rough skin damage off and I think the lack of rocky helmet is covered by the increase in both defense and special defense. Dual mega Dragon is also a viable option if you want to use mega latias as garchomp can stay non mega in most matchups. Again, the only thing it misses out on is rocky helmet which isn't as big of a deal imo. A Rank.

(Fighting) S -> A.
Same case as with Jirachi. I don't have enough experience with Fighting but I can definitely say that Mega Medicham outclasses it in terms of usage stats. Gallade-Mega however does have a niche above Medicham in SD as well as the difference in speed. Gallade also has Knock Off which Fighting types really appreciate and also works as a decent win condition vs Psychic between SD, Knock Off and Shadow Sneak. With that said, I think Fighting still appreciates Mega Medicham's outright power and double priority more which is why I think it deserves A Rank.

 

[Seo.]

Ditto B->A

I disagree with the fact that it is placed in B rank with Miltank, Heliolisk and Snorlax because these mons are straight up not as viable as ditto is. Prevents setup sweepers from sweeping the team, and can be used to copy users with heal bell to eliminate status. Normal is overall very prone to certain setup sweepers such as Swords Dance Gallade so having a mon like ditto in the back either prevents them from trying to set up at all, or reverse sweeps them if they think its a good idea to set up. Its job on normal is very simple, yet very effective.​

Note: Ditto copies all stats except HP

The only set it basically runs:
Ditto @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Imposter
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 30 Def
- Transform

 

[scpinion]

Thoughts on the current discussion:
Shoutouts to Tyke for helping me out.

(Dark) B -> A.
I think DEG summed it up perfectly. I tried out Mega Houndoom in my laddering session for Sablenite Suspect test and it proved to be extremely valuable, between its great special attack / speed tier, fire immunity, valuable type and coverage that helps vs Fairy and Bug. Not to mention being able to use Nasty Plot turns it into a deadly set up sweeper. It does have a weakness to Stealth Rock, and overall pretty thin bulk but it provides a good special attacker that Dark doesn't have many options for which is why I think it deserves A Rank.

(Water) A -> B.
Alomomola unfortunately never finds a spot on balanced water. Water has too many viable options to give up a slot on such a passive Pokemon especially with the release of Volcanion limiting Balanced Water's options. Stall Water does find Alomomola necessary as a wish passer, however, but stall water is not used nearly enough to make it an A rank 'mon. All in all, I think Alomomola deserves nothing more than B Rank.

(Steel) B -> B.
I don't have nearly as much experience with Steel to write a proper argument but Jirachi rarely finds a spot on Steel according to my experience in facing Steel teams. Whenever I do see Jirachi, its usually as an Assault Vest user (I think Acast invented that set) or special scarfer and in my opinion, its outclassed and usually useless in most matchups. That is why I think Jirachi deserves to stay at B Rank but like I said before, I don't have a solid opinion on this because of my lack of experience with Steel.

(Dragon) B -> A.
Honestly, i'm surprised its not already A Rank. It outclasses lead regular garchomp as a stealth rocker in terms of bulk and packs a much stronger punch. The only thing it misses out on is rough skin + rocky helmet damage but in most matchups you can stay non mega to get rough skin damage off and I think the lack of rocky helmet is covered by the increase in both defense and special defense. Dual mega Dragon is also a viable option if you want to use mega latias as garchomp can stay non mega in most matchups. Again, the only thing it misses out on is rocky helmet which isn't as big of a deal imo. A Rank.

(Fighting) S -> A.
Same case as with Jirachi. I don't have enough experience with Fighting but I can definitely say that Mega Medicham outclasses it in terms of usage stats. Gallade-Mega however does have a niche above Medicham in SD as well as the difference in speed. Gallade also has Knock Off which Fighting types really appreciate and also works as a decent win condition vs Psychic between SD, Knock Off and Shadow Sneak. With that said, I think Fighting still appreciates Mega Medicham's outright power and double priority more which is why I think it deserves A Rank.

Just replying to this b/c it has them listed out and I'm mostly presenting counter points or agreeing.

I think M-doom should be B rank unless Sablenite is banned. There is no reason to run something other than Mega-Sableye on a Dark team when it is an option. Our V.R. should reflect that.

I'm torn over Alo. Stall water isn't as prevalent as it used to be, but most teams are still semi-unprepared for it, from what I can tell. If we had + rankings this would be a perfect 'mon for it. Overall, I think it is more similar to the 'mons in B rank, like Quagsire, SS 'mons, or Suicune, in that they fill a particular niche for a particular type of water team.

Just wanted to add that Wish / Protect / Toxic Jirachi with SpDef investment is really annoying for a bunch of teams to take down, but that set is better used on Psychic teams. Jirachi at B rank for Steel is fine unless balanced Steel teams make a resurgence before the end of ORAS.

Mega-Garchomp is a nice 'mon, but it comes with the opportunity cost of losing mega-latias. I don't play enough Dragon to really comment on this, but I think that is something that should be considered when discussing the merits of Mega-Chomp vs. Regular Chomper

Agree completely with terrors stuff on Mega-Gallade. A rank b/c Medi is generally more useful.

 

[Zar]

Time for discussions of the week 2 :D

Mega Houndoom B -> A on Dark

One of the four megas out of Dark thare actually somewhat viable but this one unfortunately is the least viable one out of them in my opinion. Although after it mega evolves it does get boosts in Speed (115) and Special Attack (140) but it does have a pretty lackluster speed as a normal Houndoom (95) which makes its so it can only Mega Evolve on a lot less stuff. Again as Waszap said, Hydreigon can do the same stuff as Mega Houndoom without taking up a Mega slot. Also, I don't really see why anyone would want to use this over Mega Sableye which is a fastastic pokemon and getting suspected as we speak, Tyranitar which is a great Dragon Dancer and can destroy unprepared teams, Sharpedo which can easily be a late game sweeper. Even if Mega Sableye does get banned, I think Tyranitar or Sharpedo will be the common Mega Pokemons for Dark. I think it should stay at B.


Alomomola A -> B on Water

You don't really see this pokemon outside of the infamous Stall Water or as it is called "Cancer Water". And there is a reason for that, although it has a fantastic HP stat (165) which makes it a great Wish Passer, it doesn't really have anything else going for it. Obviously it can fish for burns with Scald but even then I think it is pretty useless against some types such as Grass/Electric. It is also a very passive pokemon. It should drop to B.


Jirachi B -> A on Steel

Even though it just moved up to A on Psychic, I think a major reason for it was due to its Steel typing helping Psychic deal with Fairy. But Steel doesn't have that problem. Jirachi doesn't really have a designated set on Steel as I've seen it run sets such as Specially Defensive wish passer, Lead Stealth Rocker and the most popular one is Choice Scarf. But then again, I think there are better Pokemon to fill those roles in Heatran, Skarmory and Excadrill. Although it does help Steel against Fighting, Doublade/Mega Scizor can already do that. It should stay at B.


Mega-Garchomp B -> A on Dragon

Garchomp is the common Stealth Rocker in a Dragon team but it can pull that off with a Mega Stone as well. It has fantastic Offensive Stats (170/120) and great Speed as a Garchomp (102) which becomes kinda meh after it Mega Evolves (92). It has access to moves like Fire Blast which can completely dismantle Steel with Earthquake and Fire Blast as Dragon struggles with Steel. It is somewhat bulky as well with (108/115/95) which will help it live most neutral hits and fire back a very powerful Earthquake/Outrage. It puts in offensive pressure as well. It can be a Mega-Garchomp with Stealth Rock as proven by Soma (a very competent Dragon user). It should move up to A.


Mega-Gallade S -> A on Fighting

I'm honestly kinda torn on this one. Mega-Gallade is absolutely fantastic for Fighting against Psychic due to the fact that it gets moves like Sowrds Dance, Knock Off, Shadow Sneak. But then again, Mega-Medicham is a great wallbreaker and other than the fact that Gallade beats Psychic if it gets a Swords Dance up, I don't really see a reason to use it over Medicham other than it helps a lot against Psychic. Mega-Gallade also helps Fighting against Water, Fire and even Flying due to Ice Punch. It struggles from 4MMS as it can only run 4 moves out of which Close Combat and Swords Dance is a must in my opinion. I honestly think it would be better of as S rank on Fighting.

 

[Dece1t]

Discussion #2

(Dark) B--->A

(Water) A--->B

(Steel) B--->A

(Dragon) B--->A

(Fighting) S--->A
Discussion #1 Change(s)

(Psyshic) A-->B - Has such a high opportunity cost and is not the greatest mega on Psyshic

(Psyshic) B--->A- Good Stealth Rocker and good fairy check. It also can run Choice Scarf and has Healing Wish

(Flying) A--->B Same reason as Gallade but not being able to use incarnate form

(Bug) Stays B- Way too controversial to change

(Fire) B--->A- B was placeholder Rank and now A seems nice seeing how it has fit into the metagame

Other Change(s)

(Grass) Unranked--->C- It's not that bad has Wil-o-Wisp and can block Rapid Spins it's alright

(Ice) D--->C- It's a decent suicide lead and summons hail

(Ice) C--->B- Both Megas on Ice should be same rank

(Ice) D--->C Was a change before just didn't get applied

(Bug) Unranked--->C- Durant is fast and can pick off some threats Omega's post says it all

Houndoom I'm very torn on. Yea, it's got a pretty good speed tier and helps tremendously vs Bug, but the main things that bug me are its ability (which is completely useless), its weakness to SR, and it's not incredibly strong to start until you NP (yea 140 Special Attack is pretty good, but, most people do run Timid, which gets its special attack to a tad higher than max base 120). There's also the fact that TTar and Sharpedo will probably* be the most used Megas--TTar upon Mega evolution gains more bulk, and more raw power (and DDance can slay unprepared teams), and Sharpedo is an awesome lategame cleaner. I'm pretty undecided on that.

Alo I agree with for B. Despite its phenoninal defense, its usually only used on Stall Teams, otherwise, you don't really see it on much else.

Jirachi I agree with for A. It's incredibly versatile, and can run a number of sets, inclduing Scarf, AV, Sp Defensive, ect. It helps a lot vs Fighting (Scarf especially), I don't see what wouldn't warrant that for A rank.

Mega Garchomp I agree with for A rank. terrors summed it up well, I won't reiterate his points.

Mega Gallade on Fighting I disagree with moving down to A. Medicham does have extraordinary wallbreaking power, but, Gallade has better bulk, and a much better speed tier (ex, speed tying with Lati@s, which can often threaten Fighting teams). Not to mention, after an SD, its stronger than Medicham (and Bulk Up even). I'd keep that at S.

While I'm at it, I have a couple nominations myself. Eelektross A ---> B/C. Lately it's seen seldom usage, and on top of that, not very strong. With AV it does have the ability to check Volcarona, but, that's about it. You often don't even have enough room to run a STAB attack. That's why I wanted to see about lowering that to B rank.

Luxray B ---> A. Electric has an extremely low pool of Physical Attackers. While I can agree Thundy edges it out because of Priority Twave and better Speed, Luxray is still great for people that want to run Special Thundy, and it has the ability to break Chansey/P2 (Thundy does not like taking an Ice Beam), which Electric severely struggles with otherwise. Plus, its an awesome switchin to status (especially seeing Zapdos or Rotom don't like be toxic'd nullifying their walling abilities), Luxray can easily punish them. I think it should go back to A rank.

I would also like to back up Waszap's nomination, however, if Lapras goes up, I feel Walrein should as well. Similar roles, however Walrein is a great con vs Fire, while Lapras is great vs Water. Not to mention, both are able to effectively (or at least as best as you could possibly get) check Scizor.

Regular Sharpedo C ---> B (Dark). Mega Sharpedo does outshine it a tad, but, Regular Sharpedo has a much better ability to run a Mixed Set, thanks to LO. Like its Mega counterpart, its also a great cleaner, and a good way to threaten Ground, Flying, and Fire. I think that merrits it good enough to be ranked up.

Weezing C ---> B. I hated that it was dropped to C rank on Poison in the first place. It's another good Ground Immunity, with pretty good Physical Defense, and access to WoW, Haze/Clear Smog, and Pain Split for recovery (not exactly the best, but its usable). Why wouldn't it be B ranked?

 

[6ti]

Discussion #2

(Dark) B--->A

(Water) A--->B

(Steel) B--->A

(Dragon) B--->A

(Fighting) S--->A

houndoom: i agree w/ scp on houndoom, no reason for it to be at A unless sablenite gets banned cause if you're running HO you might want sharp or even ddance ttar over...this. If sablenite stays, then B. Otherwise, A.
alomomola: it's essentially only used on stall water, which is becoming less popular. keep it at B.
jirachi: Honestly, I think it comes down to whether sablenite gets banned. If that goes, balanced steel is going to be more viable and rachi is the only wishpasser on steel. However, if it stays, HO steel will remain to be the better version and jirachi doesnt really have a place on that outside of using choice scarf. If sablenite goes, then A. Otherwise, B.
MChomp: i've always thought mega latias was marginally better, regular chomp keeps rough skin + rocky helmet / leftovers. and even for offensive chomp (lol) it loses a lot of important speed when it mega evolves, essentially making it less effective as a sweeper. Keep it at B.
MGallade: not much to say on this, havent used it on any serious fighting team, but imo mmedicham is better (which might be why I never used mega gallade)

 

[SirSkit]

Luxray B ---> A. Electric has an extremely low pool of Physical Attackers. While I can agree Thundy edges it out because of Priority Twave and better Speed, Luxray is still great for people that want to run Special Thundy, and it has the ability to break Chansey/P2 (Thundy does not like taking an Ice Beam), which Electric severely struggles with otherwise. Plus, its an awesome switchin to status (especially seeing Zapdos or Rotom don't like be toxic'd nullifying their walling abilities), Luxray can easily punish them. I think it should go back to A rank.

I would disagree with Luxray rising to A. If Mega Sableye ends up leaving, Luxray's niche of beating it 1v1 is gone. It doesn't beat Porygon-2 unless it can activate Guts somehow, which the Normal user would likely prevent. The lack of defensive synergy (due to just being pure Electric) is also something to consider. Idk, I just feel like Thundurus-I is more multi-purpose and still does physical sets better. Thundurus-I at least has access to Knock Off, as well as a great Speed tier, while stopping setup mons with Thunder Wave. Although, Luxray still undeniably has power behind it, it's just a one-trick-pony with its biggest niche (possibly) leaving. Definitely not A, but B rank, as it is still a good physical attacker should you wish to use Thundy for something else.
Mega Houndoom (Dark) B--->A
It seems only logical that, with Mega Sableye's (imo likely) ban, that the other Dark Megas would rise up in viability. But like scpinion said, it should only rise if Mega Sableye is banned. If Mega Sableye stays, Mega Houndoom should just remain at B Rank. I think Dark is going to shift towards more offensive playstyles, and Mega Houndoom, Mega TTar, and Mega Sharpedo all fill that equally well, so Mega Houndoom should join the others in A.
Alomomola (Water) A--->B
Yep, I'd agree with this one too. While everyone hates Stall Water, I can't argue with the results that it has against several types on the ladder. However, the problem is, Alomomola only fits on Stall Water, while I'd say that bulky offensive Water is much more viable (and not a total pain). Alomomola also requires a really specific set of teammates in order to work, like Lanturn and Quagsire, which prevents it from fitting on just any Water team.
Jirachi (Steel) B--->A
I don't really have a strong opinion about Jirachi on Steel as I haven't used it, but Jirachi's use on Steel might be interesting in the next few weeks. Mega Sableye's (possible) ban might encourage the return of bulky Steel (basically Ferro + Skarm + Heatran + Doublade), which Jirachi fits well on as a wish passer, Calm Mind, or Assault Vest, compared to the currently common hyper offensive Steel.
Mega Garchomp (Dragon) B--->A
Again, I don't know much about this one in particular, but Mega Garchomp should just stay at B, shouldn't it? Mega Latias brings more to the table and fits the Mega slot well. Not only that, but Tank Garchomp is also rising in usage, which more comfortably takes on stuff like Bisharp and Mega Scizor that Dragon just hates. I'm no Soma, so feel free to just ignore that .3.
Mega Gallade (Fighting) S--->A
Yeah, I'd agree. Mega Medicham is the go-to Mega on Fighting because of its stupidly good power, and it comes in handy more against Fairy, Flying (that doesn't have CS Togekiss), and whatnot. Mega Gallade does have a better matchup against opposing Psychic teams since it is a little harder for Psychic's Choice Scarfers to revenge kill it, and it does have Knock Off for Slowbro. It is kinda underwhelming sometimes though :I

Also, looking at some of the viability rankings, I think that a lot of stuff should change on Dark, if Mega Sableye is banned. I played around with Dark during the suspect, and Krookodile was really fun to use. The Stealth Rock lead set is really underrated, since it easily resets SR against Flying throughout the match and has a quick enough Taunt to stop both Skarmory and Zapdos from removing them. Krook also forms a nice core with Mandibuzz, as it stops Volt Switch and weakens Rock-types with Intimidate to help soften blows for Mandibuzz. Rocky Helmet Mandibuzz + Krook helps with the occasional VoltTurn too. Moving Tyranitar down to A Rank, and moving Krookodile up to A Rank is what's best IMO. The S Rank on Dark is really congested.

 

[Wanka]

Agreeing with scp about doom staying at B if sable stays and if sable does get banned, Id like to see how dark will adapt to the meta. I'd probably say B for the time being but I think it could catch fire if sable gets banned to push it up. I use bug on the ladder a lot and I can just say first hand that mega doom is such a pain in the ass to deal with because it outspeeds everything (bar scarf cross) and it resists bullet punch. So I guess its really nice to take advantage of a type that dark can struggle with.

Id for sure hold off on jirachi being A on steel. Its good, but if you're using jirachi on a steel team then you aren't using bisharp or scizor, two mons that are tough to miss out on when building a steel team. I have been using a bulky balance steel build to ladder with and I have jirachi on it. Acasts set is fine but imo if you want to utilize jirachi the best way on steel, calm mind sets are the way to go. Personally, Ive been running sub CM with moonblast and psyshock and its a really fun mon to use. However, its risk factor that keeps you from using other high ranked mons is what will keep it at B rank.

Chomp is a pretty tough one. I personally don't think we should be encouraging people to use double mega because it just confuses new players when trying to learn a type like dragon. And I honestly dont think double mega is worth running on dragon. You are just severly hindering one of the mons ability to do what it wants to do for dragon teams. That being said, it's very hard to pass up on mega latias given its sweeping capabilities. Garchomp is ofc the next best mega after it and I kinda of like it in a more high B status but if it goes A, its honestly not a huge deal because it is a very strong mon.

I'm ok with gallade dropping as well. Medicham has for sure set itself apart as the premier mega on fighting teams. Gallade is really only dangerous to the meta after a boost and even then, if its taking hits in order to boost, it can be revenged quite easily. Its weak to all priority and has terrible priority itself along with not the greatest physical bulk which also leaves it open to scarfers. On the flip side, medicham has no trouble getting its mega off and it doesn't need to rely in boosting to be able to do its job.

Thats all I got. Good stuff.

 

[Zap]

Ditto B->A

I disagree with the fact that it is placed in B rank with Miltank, Heliolisk and Snorlax because these mons are straight up not as viable as ditto is. Prevents setup sweepers from sweeping the team, and can be used to copy users with heal bell to eliminate status. Normal is overall very prone to certain setup sweepers such as Swords Dance Gallade so having a mon like ditto in the back either prevents them from trying to set up at all, or reverse sweeps them if they think its a good idea to set up. Its job on normal is very simple, yet very effective.​

Note: Ditto copies all stats except HP

The only set it basically runs:
Ditto @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Imposter
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 30 Def
- Transform

Just would like to say I agree with this, and that when i suggested this i was told that "its a gamble to run" and "sometimes the worst pokemon on your team" which is a very poor counter argument imo. It is in no way a gamble to run, it is an extremely valid scarfer for normal teams, and the only way it can be the worst pokemon on your team is if you send it on a mon that has a substitute up, which every half decent normal player knows not to do. Ditto also lets you know the opponents moveset, giving a potential advantage to your team (by you possibly fearing a move and it turns out the opponent doesnt have it). It also can come into choice scarfed mons that want to use trick on your chansey/porygon. (Usually these are psychic mons so your mega would be a risky switchin).

 

[scpinion]

Just copying my thoughts over from the last time this came up. I still think b rank is a good spot.

I think ditto is immensely valuable for the standard, fat normal teams but I think B rank is a nice place for it.

It is true ditto does pressure players into finding other ways around/through Chansey + pory2 + bulkraptor. Personally, I rely heavily on ditto in many matches because I feature it on almost every normal team I have.

However, when I look at the other mons in A rank ditto doesn't compare. It can't wall break like diggersby and Melo. It doesn't threaten a large chunk of the meta like the two megas. It is a glue mon that holds together one particular style of team. PoryZ and m-audino, 2 B rank mons, are very similar to this in the sense that they enable HO and stall Normal, respectively, but don't define the type.

Sorry for any typos, on mobile.

 

[Confluxx [Old]]

(Dark) B--->A
Unless Mega Sableye gets banned, I don't see this Pokemon being too valuable or used over it so I feel like moving this to rank A is something that should be discussed only if Mega Sableye gets banned. It's a decent special wallbreaker with access to Nasty Plot, which Dark doesn't have many of, it checks Bug-types and somewhat Fairy-types with Sludge Bomb and although all of that is pretty good, I don't think it's more valuable than what Mega Sableye provides, especially since it's not the only way Dark can check Bug and Fairy-types. B Rank.

(Water) A--->B
I agree completely with this. Balanced teams don't find much use for Alomomola and something that only shines on stall teams shouldn't be ranked A considering it's not even that common. It has Regenerator, great bulk and things like Wish and Toxic which is alright, but definitely not necessary on playstyles other than stall. So B Rank is the right place for it. B Rank.

(Steel) B--->A
I don't really use Jirachi on Steel at all so I can't say many things from experience, but I do know that Jirachi is a great Choice Scarf user that can check Fighting with Heart Stamp which is deadly to it. With things like Healing Wish, Trick and U-Turn it can support the team pretty well and gain momentum. There's a pretty underrated set that I call "Water Breaker Jirachi" which is an Assault Vest set with Charge Beam, Energy Ball, Psyshock and a filler move, and it makes the Water matchup so much easier because Steel struggles with it, and no other Pokemon can do this like Jirachi can. I'm still on the fence about this but I'm kind of leaning towards it remaining B Rank because if you look at other Steel-types who are B Rank like Bisharp, Doublade and Magnezone, I don't think Jirachi can be compared. B Rank.

(Dragon) B--->A
I don't really have much to say about this. In my mind Dragon benefits more from just running regular bulky Garchomp and Mega Latias which is really bulky as well and can be played really well with sets like Substitute, Calm Mind, Roost, Stored Power, a BoltBeam set or just a support set with Defog, Healing Wish maybe etc. Garchomp gains even more bulk when it mega evolves but its main job is to set up Stealth Rock because you don't wanna run Druddigon to complete that role. So I don't think Mega Garchomp outshines regular Garchomp and Dragon and B Rank is honestly fine for it in my opinion. B Rank.

(Fighting) S--->A
I agree with this. Although Mega Gallade has the superior speed tier, access to Swords Dance and helps more against Psychic than Mega Medicham does, Mega Medicham's wallbreaking capabilities are unmatched and the immediate power is very nice because even Pokemon that resist its STAB moves will take a lot of damage unless they're very bulky Pokemon like Slowbro. I have never seen Mega Gallade as an S Rank Pokemon on Fighting and the first Pokemon that comes to mind when I think of a Fighting-type mega evolution is Mega Medicham, no questions asked. A Rank.

 

[DoW]

Just copying my thoughts over from the last time this came up. I still think b rank is a good spot.

Honestly, I think Ditto's ability to hold up the entire Stall playstyle for Normal puts it on a similar footing to Diggersby and Meloetta.
I'd say it's like Meloetta in terms of where it can be used, as well - Meloetta's pretty standard on more offensive Normal teams, however it can also be run effectively on stallier Normal teams, often using an AV set or similar. Ditto's pretty standard on defensive Normal teams, but it's also usable as a revenge killer on offensive teams, with its ability to outspeed even things that have managed to boost speed (e.g. Rock Polish lando-t that would outspeed things like Mega Lopunny or Scarf Staraptor), and forcing big threats like Mega Pinsir to be very cautious about setting up in a way no other Normal-type can.

Compared to that, Mega Audino is a pretty neat defensive pokemon, wish passer, Fighting check and either Heal Beller or CM Wincon, but at the same time I'd argue pretty easily replacable and with obvious weaknesses (and I say this as one of the earliest Mega Audino users). I'd definitely say Ditto is closer to Meloetta rank than Mega Audino rank.

 

[Vid]

Alright the long awaited VR Council member is here
The VR Council is now expanding to 3 members (from 2)

• 
  Wanka
• 
  Confluxx

Quick Thank you to LemonJello88 for correcting spelling mistakes that were from previous thread
Discussion #2 Change(s)

• 
  A--->B- This one has had no arguments so it's only change

Rest of changes are still up for discussion here they are again
Discussion #2

• 
  (Dark) B--->A
• 
  (Steel) B--->A
• 
  (Dragon) B--->A
• 
  (Fighting) S--->A

 

[Wanka]

I guess I'll address some of the "other" noms while im at it to clear things up and not make ppl seem like they are getting ignored.

C--->B

Being "usable" isn't cutting it to bump this mon. C and D rank mons are "usable" too, that doesn't make them good. And while I think weezing has a decent niche with being able to wall physical attackers, venusaur walls just about every mon weezing does which makes it somewhat redundant. As a sweeper stopper, tentacruel outclasses it with its own combo of haze/acid spray. If you are using weezing, you are more than likely missing out on a nido, scolipede, or tentacruel which makes it somewhat risky to use as all of those mons bring more to a poison team than weezing does. I kinda just see it as overkill vs scizor, which isn't terrible but you don't want to find yourself over preparing for something that you can still check anyways. It stays at C.

C--->B

In terms of comparing it to dragalge, drag brings tons more to a team than goodra. Dragalge gives is a really nice bulky attacking fairy check for things like togekiss and clefable. It also has the ability to set t spikes which makes things like scarf kyu b, latios, and Band Dnite much more threatening. It has a wide movepool which helps it get past would be checks as well along with very good special bulk. Adaptability just makes it an insane nuke and it lets you utilize your item better since it doesn't need much to increase its power. All in all, its weakness to psychic and snail-like speed is what keeps it out of A rank, but all of the above make it fit very nicely in B.

Goodra has literally 1 usable set, which is AV. I've found that all that set does is just sit there and spam weak coverage moves that don't break any special wall. whether you have ice beam or not, you can't break through zapdos or a bulky togekiss. it's not like your checking CM clefable either. If at any point clef finds its way to cm, it just 1v1s you as sludge bomb doesn't even do 40%. clef can just cm again and sweep you. The only way goodra becomes effective is if your opponent doesn't have a clue that goodra gets flamethrower or ice beam and they think their skarmory can wall it.

To sum it up, it's an inferior fairy check to dragalge, it has piss poor physical bulk, not a good defensive typing for a mon that's trying to wall things, and it's too weak to break through common balance cores in the meta while dragalge actually can. It stays at C.