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Why do Electric types want to use Thunder over Thunderbolt in GSC? I assumed for OU it had something to do with Snorlax, but in the new GSC UU thread, the Ampharos set just goes on with Thunder. I know in RBY OU we put Thunderbolt on Zapdos, Jolteon, and Starmie over Thunder, so what changed in the GSC generation to make Thunder the standard pick for Electric STAB?
 
I'm no GSC expert, but I know that Thunder has a 30% chance to paralyze in GSC whereas in RBY that chance was only 10%. Also in GSC every mon has Leftovers so the added damage might be needed more there. This is as good an explanation as I could come up with.
 

Typhlito

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I'm no expert either but if it's like in every other gen, its just a preference. The thing with gsc though is that everything is pretty bulky so you would like to have as much power behind your attacks as possible and the para chance is nice too. However thunderbolt is also viable due to it being more accurate and having more pp so it could be spammed longer. Plenty of people use t bolt over thunder because of this.
 
The 30% (or 21%) paralysis chance is very threatening, and in GSC missing tends not to be as disastrous typically whereas the extra damage is significant in a lot of cases in order to have a chance at securing KOs. The abundance of viable recovery moves (i.e. Leftovers & Rest + Sleep Talk and associated mechanics) is the main cause of this. In a Zapdos vs Zapdos matchup, the Zapdos with Thunder is more likely to get a 3HKO on the opposing Zapdos or paralyse it, and the Thunderbolt Zapdos will struggle with lower odds.

In RSE, it became riskier to use Thunder over Thunderbolt again because Rest + Sleep Talk mechanics changed and Pokemon generally became more powerful offensively with new items and moves, and weaker defensively with the introduction of limited EV distribution.
 

Mr.E

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Thunderbolt has higher average damage over time but Thunder has better short-term damage when it cooperates with you, to say nothing of roughly double chance to PAR. When it hits, you turn a lot of 4HKOs into 3HKOs, and 3HKOs into 2HKOs, which is pretty important due to the amount of HP recovery in the game as mentioned by others. The accuracy is not a huge issue because if you hit the first one or two you fire on a target, the opponent has to respect the potential (and the odds) of the next one hitting and make suboptimal plays (e.g. Snorlax forced to Rest early), and if you miss early you have the information to alter your plans. Crits are also devastating.

Thunder is more useful to Zapdos especially than other Electrics. Zapdos is the only Electric-type with enough power to 4HKO Snorlax and the bulk to avoid the 3HKO back from non-DE Lax (but DE Lax can be 3HKOed by Zapdos due to recoil). It's the only special attacker, sans Acid Armor Vaporeon, that Snorlax can't just switch directly into and pressure out; Lax switching in is actually forced to Rest before Zapdos has to switch out (if the first two Thunders hit) which gives the Zapdos player so much more leeway in dealing with Lax. Plus being the only Electric-type that doesn't resist Electric, Zapdos also tends to attract its grounded contemporaries which really don't appreciate the boosted chance of paralysis due to their general reliance on Speed (for doing things other than walling Zapdos). Grounded Electrics don't tend to match up against each other, unless it's Raikou coming in to Roar shuffle.

Thunderbolt is still a perfectly fine option and still sees plenty of play on Raikou. It sucks when the opponent mispredicts and you just miss the Thunder on their Cloyster or Skarm anyway. You can use TB Zapdos still too, especially if you're gonna run a non-Sleep Talk set anyway so you don't plan on going toe-to-toe with Snorlax (doubly so if using TWave because then you don't care about the boosted PAR chance on Thunder either), but Thunder on the standard ST set allows Zapdos to exert pressure on Lax in a way no other special attacker can which is difficult to say "no" to considering how ubiquitous Snorlax is in GSC.
 
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For a Suicune with base 70 Hidden Power Electric in SoulSilver, I have to choose between sacrificing either 1 Defense IV and 1 Speed IV, or 1 Special Attack IV. If I'm using the Offensive Calm Mind Set, what's generally the better way to go? The entry in the Strategy Pokedex doesn't say.
 
Restarting Soul Silver, going to RNG my starter (the actual Pokemon Elm gives you) again but wondering what to do with it. What's the best moveset, nature, and EV spread for a Feraligatr that can't learn dragon dance or aqua jet (for UU or OU, whichever it's more fit for)?

Last time I went Swords Dance, Aqua Tail, Ice Punch, and Earthquake, with an Adamant nature and 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe, but that was slapped together haphazardly and I'd like some input this time.
 
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Restarting Soul Silver, going to RNG my starter (the actual Pokemon Elm gives you) again but wondering what to do with it. What's the best moveset, nature, and EV spread for a Feraligatr that can't learn dragon dance or aqua jet (for UU or OU, whichever it's more fit for)?

Last time I went Swords Dance, Aqua Tail, Ice Punch, and Earthquake, with an Adamant nature and 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe, but that was slapped together haphazardly and I'd like some input this time.
I'm assuming this is for Gen IV formats and not being traded up to XY/ORAS.

You'd be better off in UU with it. The set you listed looks p good considering no DD or AJ available. I'd recommend Waterfall over Aqua Tail, though. After factoring in accuracy, AT's only slightly stronger and your overall damage output is around the same. Waterfall doesn't run the risk of missing, has a 20% chance to flinch, and more PP~

Another possible set would be SD / Agility / Waterfall / Return. Water + Normal coverage is only resisted by the uncommon Cradily (and the rarer Shedinja, but you weren't hitting that before anyway) in UU. This gives you the flexibility to run two setup moves. Agility against faster, offensive teams and SD against slower, bulkier teams. If you get the chance to set up again, one of each is the same as 2 DDs :3

Jolly nature over Adamant is also something to consider, especially in UU. You'll get the jump on Jolly Hitmonchan and any neutral-natured base 80-90 Speed Pokemon, including Moltres, Kabutops, Qwilfish, Blaziken, Toxicroak, Kangaskahn, Hitmonlee, and Magmortar. Those Pokemon often go for +Speed natures, though, in which case you'll still miss out. It ultimately comes down to personal preference / team needs, I guess.
 
I'm assuming this is for Gen IV formats and not being traded up to XY/ORAS.
Yeah, it is. Sorry, I should have mentioned.

You'd be better off in UU with it. The set you listed looks p good considering no DD or AJ available. I'd recommend Waterfall over Aqua Tail, though. After factoring in accuracy, AT's only slightly stronger and your overall damage output is around the same. Waterfall doesn't run the risk of missing, has a 20% chance to flinch, and more PP~

Another possible set would be SD / Agility / Waterfall / Return. Water + Normal coverage is only resisted by the uncommon Cradily (and the rarer Shedinja, but you weren't hitting that before anyway) in UU. This gives you the flexibility to run two setup moves. Agility against faster, offensive teams and SD against slower, bulkier teams. If you get the chance to set up again, one of each is the same as 2 DDs :3

Jolly nature over Adamant is also something to consider, especially in UU. You'll get the jump on Jolly Hitmonchan and any neutral-natured base 80-90 Speed Pokemon, including Moltres, Kabutops, Qwilfish, Blaziken, Toxicroak, Kangaskahn, Hitmonlee, and Magmortar. Those Pokemon often go for +Speed natures, though, in which case you'll still miss out. It ultimately comes down to personal preference / team needs, I guess.
Thanks. Between the two sets (SD / Waterfall / Ice Punch / Earthquake or SD / Agility / Waterfall / Return), is one clearly better, or can I safely just choose based on personal appeal (I like the first one a bit more, but don't want to short-change myself)? Also, I notice that none of the UU sets max out speed, but since they all had either Dragon Dance or Aqua Jet, I figured I should compensate with 252 Spe EVs. However, I realize that speed EVs are determined with the aim of out-speeding specific threats, and I don't know if 252 Spe EVs beats anything that a lower number wouldn't also (in which case I'd dump the extra EVs into HP). I can use the calculator on Pokemon Showdown to try and figure it out myself, but I don't have a perfect sense yet of what all I should bother trying to out-speed where I could, and I figure someone here might know the answer off the top of their head.

As for Jolly vs Adamant, what would you recommend if I told you I'd be willing to just build a team to suit it either way? Is there more potential in one of them with that amount of flexibility, or is it still kind of apples and oranges, pick your flavor?

Apologies if this question no longer qualifies as "simple".
 
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Yeah, it is. Sorry, I should have mentioned.

Thanks. Between the two sets (SD / Waterfall / Ice Punch / Earthquake or SD / Agility / Waterfall / Return), is one clearly better, or can I safely just choose based on personal appeal (I like the first one a bit more, but don't want to short-change myself)? Also, I notice that none of the UU sets max out speed, but since they all had either Dragon Dance or Aqua Jet, I figured I should compensate with 252 Spe EVs. However, I realize that speed EVs are determined with the aim of out-speeding specific threats, and I don't know if 252 Spe EVs beats anything that a lower number wouldn't also (in which case I'd dump the extra EVs into HP). I can use the calculator on Pokemon Showdown to try and figure it out myself, but I don't have a perfect sense yet of what all I should bother trying to out-speed where I could, and I figure someone here might know the answer off the top of their head.

As for Jolly vs Adamant, what would you recommend if I told you I'd be willing to just build a team to suit it either way? Is there more potential in one of them with that amount of flexibility, or is it still kind of apples and oranges, pick your flavor?

Apologies if this question no longer qualifies as "simple".
For Jolly vs Adamant, 252 Speed Jolly beats out neutral-natured 252 Speed Moltres and Kangaskahn by 1 point (280 vs 279), so definitely worth full investment if going Jolly. Adamant only needs 232 Speed EVs to beat out the next notable thing (Adamant Absol, which has 249 Speed), giving you an extra 20 to toss into bulk. As for which is better, it depends on the set and what you're aiming to do with it. Adamant will always make a difference, while Jolly will only make an impact against certain match-ups. Those match-ups are pretty important, though.

Take Modest LO Moltres, for instance. Adamant deals more damage by ~5%, which does make a difference overall (figuring in its own recoil, Moltres will usually get KOed by Adamant Waterfall but rarely KOed by Jolly). If you're using LO yourself, Adamant always KOes while Jolly misses out ~6% of the time. That Speed difference, however, determines whether Moltres gets to dish out 79.4 - 93.5% to you (or straight KO with a crit) first. If you're running Adamant and have taken SR damage, LO recoil, etc., that can take you out before you even get a chance to hit it. Jolly on the other hand can pull off the KO if you have SR up, or Moltres has taken some chip damage from LO / stray resisted attacks. Speed is the most important factor if that Moltres has taken some damage already, you've already set up, you crit, or you just want to heavily damage (and possibly KO) it before going down.

Or Qwilfish for another example. If you're up against SD or RD Qwil, EQ's gonna KO regardless of Adamant or Jolly, but Qwil can take Adamant down with Explosion. Against more defensive sets, the extra damage is better since you'll outspeed regardless (and it can even guarantee KOs vs. certain sets at full health).

Really, all the threats that I mentioned before are offensive. You can generally beat them if you're faster, but take heavy damage / possibly get KOed first if you aren't. If you want to fare better against those specific Pokemon, it's worth going Jolly. If you think they won't be issues, go for Adamant.



Best set depends on team needs and what Gatr is ideally accomplishing. The most effective set overall might be more restrictive to build around. I'd recommend trying out the different sets on Pokemon Showdown before taking the time to RNG and train it, as that way you'll have a good idea of what set best suits your style. As for what the sets accomplish:

The straight SD set makes for the most effective breaker of the bunch. In other words, it's the best at busting up walls and dealing raw damage to ease the path for a sweeper / cleaner to finish things up. Against slower teams, it's by far the scariest set. Faster teams will generally have an easier time taking it down, in turn making them harder to switch into and set up against. That said, they'll have a tough time switching into you as well.

The SD + Agility set is scarier than the above for offensive teams, while defensive teams have an easier time covering it (though it can still hole-punch well and has a possibility of sweeping). You're essentially trading coverage for versatility. This set aims to threaten any team, making it an interesting sweeper or glue mon, but it'll need something else to chip things up first before doing its best work.

A third possibility would be Scarf, which can be pretty versatile in itself. Jolly is still cool then, letting you outspeed anything from Jolly Swellow to Modest Scarf Moltres. That said, you might want the extra power from Adamant, since you have no way of boosting. I'd use the 3 attacks from that SD set, but you actually have several options for that last slot. Crunch, Superpower, or Sleep Talk would probably be the best picks, but Gatr has a surprisingly large movepool (Rock Slide, Outrage, Shadow Claw, Low Kick, Return... not too shabby when it comes to surprise possibilities~) This set aims for hit-and-run maneuvers and revenge killing until it gets a chance to clean up a battered team.



Also, yeah, I think I went past "simple answer", haha. Sorry if that's tl;dr or incoherent, I'm a bit baked atm. Feel free to shoot me a PM if you want to discuss this more, though~
 
Thanks, and no problem. I once left a friend of mine a 6,000+ word profile message, so I'm the last person to cry tl;dr. I'll ask further questions via pm to avoid hogging the thread.
 
This might be a bit of a dumb question, so I'm sorry in advance if so.

Is dropping Psychic in exchange for BoltBeam viable in RBY Ubers for Mewtwo? The thing is, if you're Psychic / (Ice attack), you have trouble with Slowbro and Starmie, and if you're Psychic / Thunderbolt, Exeggutor comes out; having both Ice and Electric means you hit both sets of resistances. Most of the things people will send out into Mewtwo will be Psychic anyway to resist the STAB, so could you have a set that just tries to exploit the secondary typings rather than keeping Psychic? I know you're giving up the chance for Special drops and so you have to pray for a Chansey freeze if you get stuck in front of it, but otherwise?
 

Lutra

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It is viable and is a decent way to stall, pressure and spread status with the 10% chance (can paralyse Chansey with Thunderbolt and then go after Mewtwo with Ice Beam). Mewtwo, however, does not worry too much about Slowbro and Starmie with Psychic + Ice Beam: 1. They can't come in easily because of potential Psychic Special drops, 2. you outstall them easily as they paralyse you (Slowbro has to rest at some point, Starmie is just so vulnerable). Exeggutor only lasts so long when you damage with Psychic also. It's not really much of a concern together with the usual team mates you find on an ubers team, just requires a decent amount of patience. A lot of players just blunder their Slowbro to Mewtwo special downs anyway, in my experience, and sometimes they are forced to risk throwing in Slowbro because something else fails.
 

Merritt

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RBY stat change+para glitch. If Mew is +6 already and uses SD, does the glitch then activate? If not, ps is bugged
It should not, it requires that the move execute successfully. If you use a stat boosting move and you either have +6 or 999 already it should do nothing to either your stats or your opponent's.
 

Jorgen

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What is the RoA "rotational ladder" and how does one go about playing matches on said ladder?
 
What is the RoA "rotational ladder" and how does one go about playing matches on said ladder?
It's a ladder that changes every month to feature a different past gens format not usually available on PS. So, for this month, you can play GSC UU on a ladder (or as a challenge option / live PS tour)
 

Lavos

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It's a ladder that changes every month to feature a different past gens format not usually available on PS. So, for this month, you can play GSC UU on a ladder (or as a challenge option / live PS tour)
How can we get GSC UU made permanent? It's a pretty cool tier and a nice distraction from the monotony of boom teams on the OU ladder.

I guess I don't understand why most old gen lower tiers aren't available full time. Seems like it would be one-and-done implementation since the mechanics are already there.
 
I have a question. So, I put my pokemon in for the Clefabe giveaway, did EXACTLY as it said, but I never got it. I didn't get it before, so I put it in TWICE to make sure it got in the front, and I STILL didn't get it. Could you please tell me why I didn't get it so that I can know how to get the next giveaways in the future? Because I REALLY wanted that Clefable. I put a lvl.14 male Roselia, and my IGN is Minato.
 
How can we get GSC UU made permanent? It's a pretty cool tier and a nice distraction from the monotony of boom teams on the OU ladder.

I guess I don't understand why most old gen lower tiers aren't available full time. Seems like it would be one-and-done implementation since the mechanics are already there.
It's mostly a matter of having too large of a challenge list. The Immortal would be able to comment on what's needed to become a permanent ladder / challenge option.
 
Would anyone with access (to a cartridge or code dump) kindly confirm whether that the GSC item Polkadot Bow is a 10% or 12.5% boost to Normal attacks in link battles? About half the internet is wrong either way, but I'm mostly concerned about Showdown's implementation.
 

dom

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Would anyone with access (to a cartridge or code dump) kindly confirm whether that the GSC item Polkadot Bow is a 10% or 12.5% boost to Normal attacks in link battles? About half the internet is wrong either way, but I'm mostly concerned about Showdown's implementation.
late reply but from what i can tell from pokecrystal, it's the same as the other type boosting items like charcoal or twistedspoon
 

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