Mafia vs Village Underground Mafia 2.0 - VALLA WINS!

[Acklow]

Deadline.



Calling game now.

So first person to die was Flyhn.

Dear Flyhn,
You are the Butler.
Your base HP is 6.

A class that is both physical and magical, the Butler takes on both combat and support roles. It is one of the promoted forms of the Troubadour class, armed with Daggers and Staves as its equipment of choice. The Butler is treated as a Nohrian class and is regarded as the male counterpart of the Maid class.

You know that the Paladin is GoodMorningEspeon. You also know that Hoshido does not have a Priestess.

At Night you may PM Acklow and Blue_Tornado “Night X - Heal USER.” USER will be healed by 1 HP.

If the main damage dealer in your faction is eliminated, you will take over as the damage dealer. When that happens, at night you may PM Acklow and Blue_Tornado “Night X - Deal Damage to USER.” USER will take 2 damage. If you die, then this ability will be reassigned to another Nohrian randomly.

You are allied with Nohr. You win if Nohr eliminates all other threats.

Because Flyhn died, Walrein decided to give up the ghost:

Dear Walrein,
You are the Strategist.
Your base HP is 4.

The standard promoted form of the Troubadour class, Strategists wield Staves as their primary equipment of choice for support purposes. They wield magic tomes for combat purposes, though the exact type of weapon varies depending on the title that they appear in.

You know that the Wolfssegner is internet. You also know that Hoshido does not have a Mechanist.

At Night you may PM Acklow and Blue_Tornado “Night X - Announcement.” Anything you include in that PM will be posted along with the update.

You are aware that there is a plant amidst the Nohr army. As such it is in your best interest to make sure everyone else in Nohr is aware of the spy.

You are allied with Nohr. You win if Nohr eliminates all other threats.

And so did Paperblade

Dear Pokemon Trainer/Paperblade,
You are the General.
Your base HP is 6.

The promoted form of the Knight class, Generals primarily wield Lances as their weapons of choice. In specific titles, this class is known to be armed with other types of weaponry alongside the Lance, a fact that further increases its combat viability. The General class is defined by superior offense and Defense, alongside a fairly decent evasive ability for their bulk and somewhat decent Resistance. These strengths are offset by the class's lack of manoeuvrability.

You know that the Adventurer is sunny004. You also know that Hoshido does not have a Spear Master.

At Night you may PM Acklow and Blue_Tornado “Night X - Deal Damage to USER.” USER will take 3 damage.

You are allied with Nohr. You win if Nohr eliminates all other threats.

As a result of Paperblade dying, NOHR has CONCEDED.

Since Nohr is gone and Hoshido is the only team left, they all rejoice. But then something happened:

BANG

BANG

BANG

Somehow a gunshot was heard in a giant twist of fate:

Dear Nomark,
You are the Samurai.
Your base HP is 4.

The Samurai is a classic combat physical class that recurrently appears across the Fire Emblem Series. Wielding Swords as its sole weapon of choice, the Samurai class is, despite being distinguished from the Mercenary class, closely linked to it in earlier titles in terms of their promotion paths.

You are the backup damage dealer for Hoshido. If the primary damage dealer dies, you will inherit a weaker version of their ability.

You are allied with Hoshido. You win if Hoshido eliminates all other threats.

Since Nomark died, the only two that were left were Maleovex and Vanillish Wafer :

Dear Maleovex,
You are the Archer.
Your base HP is 4.

Archers are foot soldiers carrying Bows to launch assaults on their foes at a range without fear of counterattacks. This is, however, offset by the fact that Archers are unable to attack from one space away under normal circumstances, making them vulnerable on Enemy Phases. While low on HP and Defense, owing to their ability to strike from afar, Archers will prove to be assets to the player so long as they are properly guarded before the Player Phase is ended.

At Night you may PM Acklow and Blue_Tornado “Night X - Announcement.” Anything you include in that PM will be posted along with the update.

At Night you may also PM Acklow and Blue_Tornado “Night X - Rolename check USER.” You will check USER’s Rolename.

You are allied with Hoshido. You win if Hoshido eliminates all other threats.

He was also killed. Along with poor Vanillish Wafer:

Dear Vanillish Wafer,
You are the Monk.
Your base HP is 4.

Mainly intended for support purposes, Monks are only capable of aiding allies with the power of staves. As such, Monks are unable to directly attack, save for Radiant Dawn, where they are bequeathed the ability to counterattack.

At Night you may PM Acklow and Blue_Tornado “Night X - Heal USER.” USER will be healed by 1 HP. This action will fail if the target is being damaged.

On Even Nights you may PM Acklow and Blue_Tornado “Night X - Upgrade USER damage.” Any damage that USER dealt will deal an additional 1 damage as well. You can only use this ability twice.

You are allied with Hoshido. You win if Hoshido eliminates all other threats.

With that, @Hoshido has been eliminated!

So who won if that's the case?

Well.....



Looks like it was VALLA THAT WON.

Hello. As you may have noticed, this game will be using a structure similar to one of my previous games, Underground Mafia. However, in this game, things will work a bit differently. Therefore, it is up to you, the players, to make sure you make smart decisions on how you play.


To Cancerous (Corrin) and MetaRaven135 (Azura), if you ever target the same user with any of your actions, you will gain a new temporary action that has ONE use. The two of you have unique growths in that sense, so the abilities you gain will NOT be the same. If you have a hard time imagining how this works, basically when you receive your results, if your intended targets were the same, then you will gain the new ability. If the either Corrin or Azura die, then the other will automatically gain all three abilities that the the dead user would have received, however they will need to coordinate identical targets with both Felicia and Silas instead (to unlock the remaining abilities they haven’t unlocked). Without actually giving away abilities I will provide an example as to how the “growth” system works: if Corrin and Azura target a USER N1, then for results they will each receive an ABILITY 1 and ABILITY A respectively. Both Corrin and Azura have a maximum of three abilities of their own that they will receive in fulfilling those conditions.


To Steven Snype (Felicia) and Thetwinmasters (Silas), the two of you have fake role PMs, which will allow you to bypass inspection of the respective faction ONCE. If either of you dies, you will be able to utilize the passive ability that Corrin and Azura share, however all 3 of you will have to target the same person for that to happen. Felicia’s growths will be identical to Azura’s and Silas’ growths will be identical to Corrin’s (these stack with previous uses of the abilities, so if you used an ABILITY 1 then you will not be able to use it/gain it via growths).


In the case that only one member of your team is alive, they will gain full access to all six abilities, granted they have not been used.

Dear Cancerous,
You are Corrin.
Your base HP is 5.

Corrin was born to the Hoshido royal family as the third eldest child of five. They were kidnapped as a young child and raised by the royal family of the neighboring kingdom of Nohr. As a result of the Great Chasm War, Corrin decided to take up a new cause in finding a solution where both the kingdom of Nohr and kingdom of Hoshido could become friends and mutually live in peace even if it meant becoming an outcast.

At Night, you may PM Acklow and Blue_Tornado “Night X - Safeguard USER.” You will protect USER from all non-damaging abilities.

At Night, you may also PM Acklow and Blue_Tornado“Night X - Deal Damage to USER.” USER will take 3 damage.

You are allied with Valla. You win if Valla eliminates all other threats.

Dear MetaRaven135/Slim Guldo/Uncle Sam,
You are Azura.
Your base HP is 4.

Azura is a Princess of Nohr, but was captured and held prisoner by Hoshido, similar to Corrin. Being a songstress and a natural dancer, Azura is an outstanding performer. However, due to Azura’s roots in Valla, she had to remain quiet about its existence to Corrin until now.

At Night, you may PM Acklow and Blue_Tornado “Night X - Heal USER.” USER will be healed by 1 HP.

You are allied with Valla. You win if Valla eliminates all other threats.

Dear Thetwinmasters/LightWolf/General Spoon,
You are Silas.
Your base HP is 6.

Silas is a fledgling Knight of the Kingdom of Nohr and child of a Nohrian Noble family, having known Corrin since childhood and considers them his best friend. The two were close and one day, Silas wanted to bring Corrin out of the Northern Fortress on a picnic. However, he was caught by the guards and was nearly executed if not for Corrin's strong opposition. Instead, he was banished from the fortress, but he never forgot his friend.

At Night you may PM Acklow and Blue_Tornado “Night X - Ability Redirect USER1 to USER2.” Whatever abilities USER1 uses will be redirected to USER2.

Dear Thetwinmasters,
You are the Oni Savage.
Your base HP is 5.

An offensive class that could be thought of as the Hoshidan interpretation of the classic Fighter class, the Oni Savage class specialises in Strength and Defense. Donning fearsome oni-inspired masks with the intention to instil terror in their opponents, Oni Savages wield Clubs as their weapons of choice.

At Night you may PM Acklow and Blue_Tornado “Night X - Safeguard USER.” You will protect USER from all non-damaging abilities.

You are allied with Hoshido. You win if Hoshido eliminates all other threats.

You are allied with Valla. You win if Valla eliminates all other threats.

Dear Steven Snype/vonFiedler,
You are Felicia.
Your base HP is 4.

Felicia is a maid working for Corrin, serving their every need in the Kingdom of Nohr. She is also the younger twin sister of Flora and the daughter of the Ice Tribe's chieftain, Kilma. Naturally, Felicia has some control over ice, but is not quite as proficient as Flora. However, her fighting skills are superior to her older sister's.

At Night you may PM Acklow and Blue_Tornado “Night X - Damage Redirect USER1 to USER2.” Whatever damage USER1 takes will be redirected to USER2.

Dear Steven Snype,
You are the Maid.
Your base HP is 4.

A class that is both physical and magical, the Maid takes on both combat and support roles. It is one of the promoted forms of the Troubadour class, wielding Daggers and Staves as its equipment of choice.

You know that the Sorcerer is ApolloPlus. You also know that Hoshido does not have a Master of Arms.

At Night you may PM Acklow and Blue_Tornado “Night X - Bodyguard USER.” You will protect USER from all damaging abilities. You may not use this ability on yourself.

You are allied with Nohr. You win if Nohr eliminates all other threats.

You are allied with Valla. You win if Valla eliminates all other threats.

CONGRATULATIONS TO VALLA FOR WINNING UNDERGROUND MAFIA 2.0!!!!!!


Concept
Sheet
Roles


Postgame will probably be worked on sometime this week. Expect it up sometime either on Thursday or Friday.

 

[Ampharos]

good game valla, already said my peace on IRC

 

[rssp1]

gg i had fun

 

[Andy Snype]

I think the #s allocation was off. Hoshido would have to essentially Lynch Nohr every time and the most straightforward way was for Valla/Nohr mole to feed village everything. Mole shouldn't have had such strong teammates imo though I'm surprised village believes a Miller in this setup giving them mafia names is good in balance, which probably should have been thrown out as a possibility, but who wants to admit their strong role is too good to be true?

Though Valla had a #s disadvantage I think that their role allocation was too OP. This allocation would have been okay for a bigger game though. I think this game took on too much for its size. HP is fine imo as a mechanic to introduce at this size but the millers, I am unsure about.

I also wasn't interested in playing gollum again from LotR which is why I subbed. I already had to outlive like 40 other people once, I did not feel like trying for another 12. It's unfun for the mafia if people are segregated out of fear of information leaks and would have played out like LotR did unless someone pulled an ipl and were to fakeclaim mole.

These are my thoughts on it. Good to see Smeagol actually succeed though haha

 

[Vanillish Wafer]

Good game.

 

[Blazade]

Steven Snype I never fully trusted Von as a mole which is why I just fucking lynched scum off of my two info roles every single day lol. The biggest problem we had with the mole PMs is it made finding the extremely troublesome redirectors next to impossible once Jalmont died. The problem was I believed he would flip maid on inspect and until LW there was no guarantee I could even use 2 inspects (which I didn't want to waste anyway) Von also idled the one night Jalmont tracked him which was extremely unfortunate because it strengthened my assumption that even if he wasn't town he couldn't do anything besides mole. With a wolf team Von couldn't know about, a larger than average mafia, and a confirmed chain informed mafia capable of protecting info from him, I don't see how even if I assumed he was town that would be unrealistic, or why having it go to the OP wolf team would be considered any better for balance. EVEN taking into account all that, lynching the mole greatly strengthens the unity of the Mafia, and that was never a hit we were in a position to take.

We even cut twin out of village leadership extremely early out of sheer paranoia but by then it was too late because I had already revealed my role (and Walrein could have at any time) since I thought

A) we had more numbers

B) we had more power

C) we had a safeguard

All of which I was rudely mistaken on.

There was a lot of stuff that had 5 or more HP which would require a vig follow up and even if I wasn't out the SECOND REDIRECTOR would be able to move the very predictable damage on the target that was just lynched anywhere they wanted. And if I WIFOM the follow up shit gets healed out of range. Silas having more HP than the lynch is definitely a mistake; it is never realistic to kill them without wasting a TON of resources in inspection, lynching, night actions, and colatteral damage from unexpected redirecting. Failing all this, the mafia hooker ALSO has 5 HP and ALSO stops my follow up attacks until he's dead. Having a lot of important roles be lynch resistant is a real drag especially if only one info role even reveals HP.

Not only was that an uphill battle, but 12/8/4 numbers are insanity, especially when there are multiple ways for either faction to mole the village. I started getting surprised at the mafia numbers but realized it would be natural if they had a mole and weren't united, but a 4 Valla wolf team powerhouse was not on the ticket and under most scenarios us eliminating them opens us up to losing to Mafia by majority alone. Us not eliminatinng them means all the dicks are pointed at the village until we can't fight anymore while mafia desparately look for the mole and feel the burn of being horribly outclassed. We lynched scum every single day (most of them 4hp scum to boot) and even got a vig on ApolloPlus that had no business being successful. We had the one mayor vote from haruno and the two from AG but mayors do not provide nearly the same vote security warm bodies do. If our way to win was negotiation with Valla, that was never going to happen. When I got lynched after all that I was fucking floored.

Many of our roles were informative (and very fallible in this setup), straight up vanilla, or damage ripe for exploitation. Twins, Vig Backup, the Shitty Doctor, Rogue, Mayor, Damage upgrader (2->3 doesn't even affect most math and how boring does it have to be to be on one person all the time, like I couldn't just have 3 damage?) BG, Damage, Tracker, Inspect, Archer. The first 7 of these are almost entirely useless during the night. We've got a shot and a block. No hooker, no safeguard, no control whatsoever against the redirects that completely cover our night actions. Not only that, we had no provable non-info roles, meaning that twin steps up one way or another basically every time there.

This game was never the largest investment for me (or anyone else for that matter, I had to deal with a lot of idling) but I still thought I and the rest of village leadership were able to come through with smart and strong play given the context. Knowing how everything is set up now, I fail to see how mathematically it's realistic for us to be put in an even potentially winning position. (Or frankly anyone but Valla). And that kinda makes me salty because I put in the work and stayed ahead of the curve only to find that the curve was always beyond reach. We cleaned a strong village leadership and pointed the inspects at scum almost 100% of the time if not actually 100% of the time following that. If Maleovex hadn't fucking idled for two nights we would have had time for Cancerous and Slim Guldo on top of all that for a perfect sweep of inspectable scum. We lynched efficiently and destroyed some of the strongest mafia roles early, idled the vig when we realized I was getting redirected, and kept looking for the source. And guess what, if we ever did inspect Slim or Cancerous, the numbers and evidence (even the flavor of the role PMs) would suggest it was a Corrin-Azura wolf team and we wouldn't even be incentivized to believe there were more Valla redirectors. Because they were inspection immune we never had a chance of finding them. If Ditto had sheeted me earlier I have to believe there was more I could do to help (and probably save LN) but that's the only real kink I see.

I also think it's ambitious to call a game with a moled, chain informed mafia and multiple sources of fake role PMs "beginner friendly" but that's just me. I was rightfully really paranoid about twin, and even more paranoid about everyone post internet flip. I wanted to include AG or any of the newbies more closely in village leadership, but AG's attitude was exactly the kind of attitude someone with a fake PM would have. As I said earlier, most of the newbs got really dull and uninteresting roles and I couldn't really get in touch with them because they fucking idled. I had to differentiate idling town from scum and I thought I'd done that pretty well. At the end I probably would have chosen distrusting Maleovex over believing there was a second transporter based redirector before I saw the lynch numbers, however.

Like, this was a cool concept and many of the themes are well worth exploring and have been explored to some extent (mole in the mafia, chain informed, redirection, HP based etc), I just think there were some real holes in how certain execution elements affected overall experience and balance. I'm the kind of guy that needs a vent after a little salt, especially if I feel the salt is well placed, but I still appreciate the effort and want to thank Acklow and Blue_Tornado for designing and hosting, and the players for doing their best to make it interesting. Good Game, everyone.

 

[rssp1]

yeah i agree idt it really was possible for us to win esp since afaik we didnt even know valla existed until walrein told us about them and the fact that there were as many anti-town as there were town made it really hard on us.
Even with that, I thought the game was enjoyable, and being part of village leadership was something new for me and something I liked doing (blazade you freak out way too much when you're leading lol). I'd like to thank Acklow and BT for making the game and hosting as well.

 

[Blazade]

(blazade you freak out way too much when you're leading lol)

Yo I'm sorry if it ever came across that way I guess emotions over text are difficult, I guess that's just something to work on. I can use forceful language sometimes if I'm stubborn about an opinion or concern I have.

 

[Lrr]

moles in mafia factions in village vs. mafia are stupid please never do this again

 

[vonFiedler]

Steven Snype I never fully trusted Von as a mole which is why I just fucking lynched scum off of my two info roles every single day lol. The biggest problem we had with the mole PMs is it made finding the extremely troublesome redirectors next to impossible once Jalmont died. The problem was I believed he would flip maid on inspect and until LW there was no guarantee I could even use 2 inspects (which I didn't want to waste anyway) Von also idled the one night Jalmont tracked him which was extremely unfortunate because it strengthened my assumption that even if he wasn't town he couldn't do anything besides mole. With a wolf team Von couldn't know about, a larger than average mafia, and a confirmed chain informed mafia capable of protecting info from him, I don't see how even if I assumed he was town that would be unrealistic, or why having it go to the OP wolf team would be considered any better for balance. EVEN taking into account all that, lynching the mole greatly strengthens the unity of the Mafia, and that was never a hit we were in a position to take.

Now consider how much of your reasoning only came from non-elements I lied to you about. Plus, totally knew what I was doing when I idled that night. Honestly I had three reasons to mole you, and was never as ambitious as to get a sheet from you or control your actions. 1. I simply had no claim and my hopes of LW leading were dashed. I had to claim SOMETHING, and something that would matter at all after several days of not claiming. 2. You were trying to lynch cancerous, and I could sway you toward someone else. You, contrary to what you say, had in fact not inspected ApolloPlus, and you may have inspected the others but I still told you who they were first. 3. How could I pass up trying to mole someone?

Village might never had a chance, and nohr got dicked HARD by being moled, but I hardly see how Valla was an auto-win. "It took so much resources to kill this person" that you had but didn't use because I manipulated you. If LW/GS was ever lynched in the late game, of which there were an astonishing number of days after his outing, we would have lost. If Cancerous was lynched twice in a row, he'd be dead and the game would still be going now. In classic wolf fashion we got stronger the later we kept our power, but we never should have been allowed a perfect win. It's easy to go "two-redirectors" but we literally had the killing power of the village, minus the lynch control. At least Nohr could hit for 4 early. If we weren't redirecting kills, and there was plenty that needed redirecting to keep up, we weren't doing anything. Literally had the same power as the village. Except that both Cancerous and LW were ripe targets for nohr's accursed hooker all game. I had to SG LW most the game, but then he had 1 hp most of the game. I took a lot of pretty massive gambits to get to a perfect win, any number of them could have backfired and led to a 3-man team with much less power. What was SlimGuldo/UncleSam? A healer? That's it? Even most of his bonus abilities sucked. Cancerous SG was only as valuable as LW was. It couldn't keep HIM from being hooked, which he was. And yeah, I can protect someone predictable (IF I'm not idling tactically), but I have TWO equally threatening enemies at night. Hell, it's only due to my constant lies that the game didn't end in a kingmaker. It could have ended turns ago had we convinced the village that, them having no chance to win, Valla rightfully deserved it. But who knows, maybe Walrein could have convinced them otherwise, or the village might have given Nohr the win out of spite. That's how volatile our ability to win was, and I strung things along to go for the sure win.

I think that for overcoming Nohr at least I deserve some credit. Village, village was fucked. Right as soon as your triple mayor died, but given the kind of swing value there, you were fucked from the get-go.

 

[UncleSam]

Yay I won

 

[Blazade]

Now consider how much of your reasoning only came from non-elements I lied to you about. Plus, totally knew what I was doing when I idled that night. Honestly I had three reasons to mole you, and was never as ambitious as to get a sheet from you or control your actions. 1. I simply had no claim and my hopes of LW leading were dashed. I had to claim SOMETHING, and something that would matter at all after several days of not claiming. 2. You were trying to lynch cancerous, and I could sway you toward someone else. You, contrary to what you say, had in fact not inspected ApolloPlus, and you may have inspected the others but I still told you who they were first. 3. How could I pass up trying to mole someone?

Village might never had a chance, and nohr got dicked HARD by being moled, but I hardly see how Valla was an auto-win. "It took so much resources to kill this person" that you had but didn't use because I manipulated you. If LW/GS was ever lynched in the late game, of which there were an astonishing number of days after his outing, we would have lost. If Cancerous was lynched twice in a row, he'd be dead and the game would still be going now. In classic wolf fashion we got stronger the later we kept our power, but we never should have been allowed a perfect win. It's easy to go "two-redirectors" but we literally had the killing power of the village, minus the lynch control. At least Nohr could hit for 4 early. If we weren't redirecting kills, and there was plenty that needed redirecting to keep up, we weren't doing anything. Literally had the same power as the village. Except that both Cancerous and LW were ripe targets for nohr's accursed hooker all game. I had to SG LW most the game, but then he had 1 hp most of the game. I took a lot of pretty massive gambits to get to a perfect win, any number of them could have backfired and led to a 3-man team with much less power. What was SlimGuldo/UncleSam? A healer? That's it? Even most of his bonus abilities sucked. Cancerous SG was only as valuable as LW was. It couldn't keep HIM from being hooked, which he was. And yeah, I can protect someone predictable (IF I'm not idling tactically), but I have TWO equally threatening enemies at night. Hell, it's only due to my constant lies that the game didn't end in a kingmaker. It could have ended turns ago had we convinced the village that, them having no chance to win, Valla rightfully deserved it. But who knows, maybe Walrein could have convinced them otherwise, or the village might have given Nohr the win out of spite. That's how volatile our ability to win was, and I strung things along to go for the sure win.

I think that for overcoming Nohr at least I deserve some credit. Village, village was fucked. Right as soon as your triple mayor died, but given the kind of swing value there, you were fucked from the get-go.

Yo you definitely deserve credit for having a solid mole claim and for playing the game perfectly (yeah I know your idle was purposeful). I never said Valla played poorly. Quite the opposite.

You did redirect Maleovex to AppoloPlus, but all you said was Pblade is bad and don't lynch him or I'm out. Then we inspected the rest of them, you never told us anything before the walrein lynch. That was all scumhunting and the only reason Cancerous and Slim didn't get caught by that was sheer dumb luck. You can thank Maleovex's vacation.

I was manipulated to believe you weren't a threat for a while, and motivated by your miller claim not to inspect you twice It was a good play, but it doesn't change the fact that we couldn't take the risk of uniting the mafia in any case.

 

[Cancerous]

UNTAB THE CRAB
UNWAVER THE CANCER
UNQUELL THE SHELL