OU Talonflame

[OVERVIEW]
* Talonflame has a niche due to it having the only priority Z-Move in the game in Gale Wings Supersonic Skystrike. This makes it a terror for offensive teams and even defensive teams with Swords Dance.
* The introduction of Psychic Terrain, Talonflame's 4x weakness to Stealth Rock, and its inability to freely spam Brave Bird limit its capabilities.
* In addition to this, Talonflame will often gamble with turns in order to use Flame Charge or Swords Dance, making it the definition of a high risk, high reward Pokemon.

[SET]
name: Swords Dance
move 1: Brave Bird
move 2: Flare Blitz
move 3: Swords Dance
move 4: Flame Charge / Overheat
item: Flyinium Z
ability: Gale Wings
nature: Adamant / Naive
evs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
Moves
========
* Brave Bird hits very hard, allowing Talonflame to revenge kill Pokemon such as Pheromosa and +1 Volcarona. More importantly, it grants Talonflame access to Supersonic Skystrike, a powerful move capable of one-shotting Pokemon such as Kingdra, Salamence, and Gyarados. Due to the nerf to Gale Wings, Talonflame must be at full health to have priority on Brave Bird and Supersonic Skystrike.
* Flare Blitz nails Magearna, Metagross, Tapu Lele, and Zapdos, some Pokemon that Brave Bird cannot touch.
* Swords Dance boosts Talonflame's mediocre Attack stat to high levels, providing it the firepower it needs to OHKO bulkier Pokemon such as Tapu Fini and Zygarde with Supersonic Skystrike.
* With the nerf to Gale Wings, Talonflame can no longer "outrun" Choice Scarf users such as Keldeo and Latios and naturally faster Pokemon such as Tapu Koko and Mega Alakazam, all provided it is not at full health. Flame Charge can be used against weakened Pokemon or those that cannot threaten Talonflame directly in order to boost its Speed. As a result, Talonflame becomes almost impossible to revenge kill without specific priority due to its phenomenal Speed tier.
* Overheat can be used to OHKO Skarmory. However, the main niche behind it is the fact that it can take out Fire-weak threats such as Ferrothorn, Buzzwole, and Serperior without resorting to Flare Blitz, thus keeping Gale Wings intact.

Set Details
========
* Flyinium Z grants Talonflame a powerful 190-Base Power Supersonic Skystrike.
* Maximum Attack and Speed are used to take full advantage of its Attack and Speed stats.
* If Flame Charge is used, an Attack-boosting nature is preferred in order to capitalize on the +1 Speed boost to hit Pokemon such as Tapu Koko and Mega Alakazam harder.
* A Speed-boosting nature is recommended when running Overheat, as Talonflame has no way to outpace Pokemon such as Greninja and Zygarde-10% when Gale Wings is not intact.

Usage Tips
========
* Unless it cannot be helped, never switch Talonflame into Stealth Rock, as it will basically make Talonflamemuch less of a threat because the opponent will not have to worry about Gale Wings.
* Talonflame cannot time a Z-Move because its other priority move, Brave Bird, will deactivate Gale Wings. Because of this, Talonflame should be sent out for guaranteed KOs or revenge killing dangerous sweepers such as Gyarados and Mega Charizard X.
* Flare Blitz should only be used after a Flame Charge or to take out Pokemon such as Mega Scizor and Celesteela.
* Flame Charge and Swords Dance are very high-risk, high-reward moves. A well-timed Flame Charge or Swords Dance can win the game, but it can also result in losing Talonflame.
* However, in more defensive matchups, Talonflame has more opportunities to click Swords Dance and blow a hole in the opponent's defenses with Supersonic Skystrike.
* Talonflame will function more of a late-game cleaner against offensive teams due to its high initial power. This is the opposite against bulkier teams; try to set up Swords Dance as early as possible and net massive damage.

Team Options
========
* Talonflame is best fit on offensive teams because it can obtain free opportunities to switch in off sacrificed teammates and the use of Volt Switch and U-turn.
* Entry hazard removal is mandatory, making Latios, Kartana, Pheromosa, and Excadrill good teammates. Tapu Fini can be used, but Talonflame prefers more offensive teammates for hazard removal.
* Mega Pinsir, Life Orb Celesteela, Choice Specs Magearna, Dragon Dance Zygarde, and Mega Charizard X can break or wear down Talonflame's checks such as Rotom-W, Heatran, and Landorus-T.
* Talonflame will need free opportunities to switch in to apply pressure, so teammates with Volt Switch and U-turn are preferred such as Scizor, Tapu Koko, Landorus-T, Magneton, and Ash-Greninja.

[STRATEGY COMMENTS]
Other Options
=============
* Tailwind can be very useful in certain situations to support its teammates. Talonflame can also use Z-Tailwind, boosting its critical hit ratio by two stages. However, the use of Z-Tailwind and Tailwind itself is far less situational than Flame Charge and Overheat, making it only viable on teams with strong, yet slow breakers such as Crawdaunt and Tapu Bulu.
* Roost lets Talonflame reactivate Gale Wings, but Talonflame will rarely have an opportunity to use the move.
* A Choice Band set seems appealing with the immediate power. However, Talonflame will only be able to get one priority Brave Bird off, unlike the Flyinium Z set, which can get two while having the potential to wallbreak or clean with Swords Dance or Flame Charge.

Checks and Counters
===================

**Stealth Rock and other residual damage sources**: Stealth Rock forces the opponent to remove entry hazards before sending out Talonflame, forcing them into unfavorable and predictable scenarios. If Talonflame is sent out on Stealth Rock, Talonflame will not longer have Gale Wings, making it easy to pick off with priority moves and Choice Scarf users such as Nihilego and Garchomp. Rocky Helmet and sand damage are also other ways to deactivate Gale Wings.

**Rock-types**: Tyranitar, Nihilego, and Aerodactyl are good switch-ins because Talonflame cannot do much outside of a +2 Supersonic Skystrike.

**Tapu Lele**: Psychic Terrain basically makes Talonflame useless, as it will be forced to use Flame Charge or Flare Blitz to break its own Gale Wings.

**Pokemon That Can Tank a Hit**: Talonflame is rather weak unboosted so Pokemon such as Kyurem-B, Tapu Koko, and Garchomp can take a Supersonic Skystrike and retaliate for the KO with their powerful STAB moves.

 
Last edited:

Nix_Hex

Uangaana kasuttortunga!
is a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Researcher Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnus
Make sure you explain why you chose Naive instead of Naughty specifically for Overheat.
 
"More importantly, it grants Talonflame access to Supersonic Skystrike, a powerful move that can bypass Psychic Terrain, while capable of one shotting Pokemon such as Kingdra, Salamence, and Gyarados."

This is misleading. You're suggesting that turning Brave Bird into Supersonic Skystrike means it no longer has priority, which it clearly does.
 
Wait l thought that Z-move couldnt carry secondary effects like priority, is there an exception If the priority comes from abilities like Gale Wings and Prankster?
 

Colonel M

I COULD BE BORED!
is a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Community Leader Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Discord Contributor Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnus
Alright so everyone knows how the mechanic works:

- Gale Wings allows the Pokemon to retain priority of the Flying attack. This means it includes Supersonic Skystrike.

Unless for some reason someone has physical evidence of this not working, I would like to ask that people refrain from mentioning it further in the thread.
 

Colonel M

I COULD BE BORED!
is a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Community Leader Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Discord Contributor Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnus
Greetings Vertex . Would like to request if you could get this done by today to help push the analysis through Quality Control. Thanks mate.
 

Colonel M

I COULD BE BORED!
is a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Community Leader Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Discord Contributor Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnus
Good stuff. I haven't used Talonflame in a while, but I wonder if Rapid Spin Pheromosa is worth mentioning as a Pokemon that can remove hazards for a more offensive team. I think the only problem is the shared weaknesses with Mega Pinsir, though, so it's probably best to have those mons listed. You probably can just point out Excadrill in general since birdspam doesn't mind using Sash Exca, but Scarf does help tackle some of the stuff that Talonflame might be "too slow" for too so it's fine for specifics.

For Volt Switch and U-turn might help to just list a couple examples of mons too.

1/3
 
Last edited:

PK Gaming

Persona 5
is a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Discord Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnusis a Past SPL Champion
Talonflame will not go quietly into the night...Talonflame will not vanish without a fight!

—Independence Day

3/3
 

Lumari

empty spaces
is a Site Content Manageris a Top Social Media Contributoris a Member of Senior Staffis a Community Contributoris a Top Contributoris a Top Smogon Media Contributoris an Administrator Alumnus
TFP Leader
remove add / fix (comments); (AC=add comma; RC=remove comma; SC=semicolon)
GP 1/1
[OVERVIEW]
* Gale Wings took a huge hit this generation: now, Talonflame only gets priority on Flying-type moves provided it is at full health. (no generational changes; this is not relevant in an SM OU context)
* Talonflame still has a niche due to it having the only priority Z-Move in the game in Gale Wings Supersonic Skystrike. This makes it a terror for offensive teams and even defensive teams with Swords Dance.
* The introduction of Psychic Terrain, Talonflame's 4x weakness to Stealth Rock, and its inability to freely spam Brave Bird limits its capabilities.
* In addition to this, Talonflame will often gamble with turns in order to use Flame Charge or Swords Dance, (AC) making it the definition of a high risk, high reward Pokemon.
* However, despite the flaws, Talonflame will not disappoint if the cards can be played correctly.

[SET]
name: Swords Dance
move 1: Brave Bird
move 2: Flare Blitz
move 3: Swords Dance
move 4: Flame Charge / Overheat
item: Flyinium Z
ability: Gale Wings
nature: Adamant / Naive
evs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
Moves
========
* Brave Bird hits very hard, (AC) allowing Talonflame to revenge kill Pokemon such as Pheromosa and +1 Volcarona. More importantly, it grants Talonflame access to Supersonic Skystrike, a powerful move capable of one-shotting (AH) Pokemon such as Kingdra, Salamence, and Gyarados. Due to the nerf to Gale Wings, Talonflame must be at full health to have priority on Brave Bird and Supersonic Skystrike.
* Flare Blitz nails Magearna, Metagross, Tapu Lele, and Zapdos, some Pokemon that Brave Bird cannot touch.
* Swords Dance boosts Talonflame's mediocre Attack stat to high levels, providing it the firepower it needs to OHKO bulkier Pokemon such as Tapu Fini and Zygarde with Supersonic Skystrike.
* With the nerf to Gale Wings, Talonflame can no longer "outrun" Choice Scarf users such as Keldeo and Latios and naturally faster Pokemon such as Tapu Koko and Mega Alakazam, all provided it is not at full health. Flame Charge can be used against weakened Pokemon or those who that cannot threaten Talonflame directly in order to boost its Speed. As a result, Talonflame becomes almost impossible to revenge kill without specific priority due to its phenomenal Speed tier.
* Overheat can be used to OHKO Skarmory. However, the main niche behind it is the fact that it can take out Fire weaks Fire-weak threats such as Ferrothorn, Buzzwole, and Serperior without resorting to Flare Blitz, thus keeping Gale Wings intact.

Set Details
========
* Flyinium Z grants Talonflame a powerful 190-Base Power (AH) Supersonic Skystrike.
* Maximum Attack and Speed are used to take full advantage of its Attack and Speed stats.
* If Flame Charge is used, an Attack-boosting (AH) nature is preferred in order to capitalize on the +1 Speed boost to hit Pokemon such as Tapu Koko and Mega Alakazam harder.
* A Speed-boosting (AH) nature is recommended for when running Overheat, (AC) as Talonflame has no way to outpace Pokemon such as Greninja and Zygarde-10% when Gale Wings is not intact.

Usage Tips
========
* Unless it cannot be helped, never switch Talonflame into Stealth Rock, (AC) as it will basically make Talonflame and much less of a threat because the opponent will not have to worry about Gale Wings.
* Talonflame cannot time a Z-Move because its other priority move, Brave Bird, will deactivate Gale Wings. Because of this, Talonflame should be sent out for guaranteed kills KOs or revenge killing dangerous sweepers such as Gyarados and Mega Charizard X.
* Flare Blitz should only be used after a Flame Charge or to take out Pokemon such as Mega Scizor and Celesteela.
* Flame Charge and Swords Dance are very high-risk, (AH) high-reward (AH) moves. A well-timed (AH) Flame Charge or Swords Dance can win the game, but it can also result in losing Talonflame.
* However, in more defensive match-ups matchups, Talonflame has more opportunities to click Swords Dance and blow a hole in the opponent's defenses with Supersonic Skystrike.
* Talonflame will function more of a late-game cleaner against offensive teams due to its high initial power. This is the opposite against bulkier teams; try to set up Swords Dance as early as possible and net massive damage.

Team Options
========
* Talonflame is best fit on offensive teams because it can obtain free switch-ins opportunities to switch in off sacks sacrificed teammates and the use of Volt Switch and U-turn.
* Entry hazard removal is mandatory, (AC) making Latios, Kartana, Pheromosa, and Excadrill good teammates. Tapu Fini can be used, (AC) but Talonflame prefers more offensive teammates for hazard removal.
* Mega Pinsir, Life Orb Celesteela, Choice Specs Magearna, Dragon Dance Zygarde, and Mega Charizard X can break or wear down Talonflame's checks such as Rotom-W, Heatran, and Landorus-T.
* Talonflame will need free switch-ins opportunities to switch in to apply pressure, (AC) so teammates with Volt Switch and U-turn are preferred such as Scizor, Tapu Koko, Landorus-T, Magneton, and Ash-Greninja. (AH)

[STRATEGY COMMENTS]
Other Options
=============
* Tailwind can be very useful in certain situations to support its teammates. Talonflame can also use Z-Tailwind, boosting its critical hit ratio by two stages. However, the use of Z-Tailwind and Tailwind itself is far less situational than Flame Charge and Overheat, making it only viable on teams with strong, yet slow breakers such as Crawdaunt and Tapu Bulu.
* Roost lets Talonflame reactivate Gale Wings, but Talonflame will rarely have an opportunity to use the move.
* A Choice Band set seems appealing with the immediate power. However, Talonflame will only be able to get one priority Brave Bird off, unlike the Flyinium Z set, (AC) which can get two while having the potential to wallbreak or clean with Swords Dance or Flame Charge, respectively.

Checks and Counters
===================

**Stealth Rock and other residual damage sources**: Stealth Rock forces the opponent to remove entry hazards before sending out Talonflame, (AC) forcing them into unfavorable and predictable scenarios. If Talonflame is sent out on Stealth Rock, Talonflame will not longer have Gale Wings, (AC) making it easy to pick off with priority moves and Choice Scarf users such as Nihilego and Garchomp. Rocky Helmet and sand damage are also other ways to deactivate Gale Wings.

**Rock-types**: Tyranitar, Nihilego, and Aerodactyl are good switch-ins because Talonflame cannot do much outside of a +2 Supersonic Skystrike.

**Tapu Lele**: Psychic Terrain basically makes Talonflame useless, (AC) as it will be forced to use Flame Charge or Flare Blitz to break its own Gale Wings.

**Pokemon That Can Tank a Hit**: Talonflame is rather weak unboosted so Pokemon such as Kyurem-B, Tapu Koko, and Garchomp can take a Supersonic Skystrike and retaliate back for the KO with their powerful STAB moves.
 
Last edited:

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 1, Guests: 0)

Top