SM UU Lategame Sand w/ Gigalith & Stoutland

[mewnited]

Hello people of Smogon! This is my first post ever here, I have been part of the competitive pokemon communtiy on reddit (/r/stunfisk) but I guess this here on smogon is the real shit. So nice to meet yall!

I really have gotten in the new UU Meta lately since it's way more diverse and thus more fun than OU atm in my opinion. I built some teams and I finally came up with something that I am happy with so i would love you guys suggestions to polish up the team!

The team is based around banded Stoutland sweeping lategame after getting sand support from Gigalith. The other mons form a quite solid core. I tried to make them all bulky but still carrying a threat on their own so they aren't too passive.

Gabe (Stoutland) @ Choice Band
Ability: Sand Rush
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Return
- Crunch
- Wild Charge
- Ice Fang

* Obviously the MVP on my team. With the sand rush boost it gets to 519 speed and the only more common thing what outspeeds and beats it is max speed timid scarfed Keldeo. Close to full health it survives most attacks from sashed mons which go down after to the sand. The problem is the locking into one move, especially if the opponent has more than 2 mons left bc there will be something to resist it.



Mairi (Gigalith) (F) @ Chesto Berry
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 HP / 56 Def / 200 SpD
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Stone Edge
- Earthquake
- Stealth Rock
- Rest

* I try to keep this rock in the back for most of the game so I can set up sand reliably when i need it. The spread is reliably on the defensive side, it doesn't even get 3HKOed from +1 Sub CM Raikous T-Bolt for example. I really wasn't sure what to run on here apart from attacking moves so I decided for rocks and a RestoChesto set.



Skorgla (Gliscor) @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 252 HP / 184 Def / 72 Spe
Impish Nature
- Knock Off
- Stealth Rock
- Taunt
- Roost

* Fairly standard Gliscor and my most played lead. It is a nice anti lead and does its job pretty well. This is the only mon tho where I wish for more activity after the rocks and knocking off something.



Hannah (Milotic) (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Marvel Scale
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 104 Def / 152 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Toxic
- Recover
- Haze

* My Keldeo switch-in and an all around solid specially defensive tank. I used to run a Flame Orb to rely on Marvel Scale but I felt like it wasn't really worth it. How the moveset is supposed to work is self-explanatory I guess.



Cobe (Scizor) (M) @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Technician
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- U-turn
- Bullet Punch
- Swords Dance
- Roost

* Because UU hasn't enough of them already. Cool thing is that set beats every other Scizor set I have encountered so far 1 on 1 due to the Rocky Helmet. A solid defensive option in general and my team has a lot of switch ins to predicted Fire moves luckily. SD prevents it from being too passive but the damage after a boosts can be disappointing compared to the banded set or attack-invested SD set.



Gauss (Togekiss) (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Serene Grace
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 64 SpD / 192 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Dazzling Gleam
- Air Slash
- Nasty Plot
- Roost

* This is somewhat of the talisman on my team. It is supposed to switch in on resisted special moves and Roost up or set up on the incoming switch. The speed tier at 244 is actually decent and beats a lot of slower teams. Also i can get most satisfying wins against stall teams with this cutie.




Now I will try to cover the general weaknesses of the team and with what it might need some help.

The team relies a lot on its defensive synergy because of the limited offensive presence and the slow setup mons (Scizor & Togekiss). This often results in a positive start to the battle but after my check of the opponents wincon is down, it can rip through the other slow mons easily. Generally the the team is threatened far more by offensive playstyles than it is by balanced or the occasional stall team. Also hazard control would be very useful but Scizors and Togekisses sets rely on all 4 moves and apparently Defog on Gliscor is incompatible with Poison Heal.

**Thanks a lot for reading and putting some thought on my team. All suggestions, especially creative sets are more than welcome! Have a nice day!**

 

[AbrarWasee]

Hey man. The team looks solid overall. I liked how you used a niche mon as Stoutland. I'd like to drop in a few suggestions of mine. I won't change much of the team.

• First thing you should change is the set of Gigalith. Since Stoutland is dependent on Gigalith to sweep, you need more turns of sand. Smooth Rock>Leftovers on Gigalith will help you accomplish that. Rest is not that reliable since it's one time use. Also, change Stone Edge<Rock Blast. Rock Blast is more accurate, has more PP, prevent Substitute and Roost stall and break Focus Sash. Stone Edge may have better power but the loss of accuracy can be detrimental at times. Also, Toxic>Rest, since we no longer have Chesto Berry, and since Stoutland is reliant on entry hazard to nab some OHKOES and 2HKOES. Being able to Toxic common defoggers is a good asset to have.
• Since you already have Stealth Rock on Gigalith, it seems a bit redundant. So it would be better if you replace Stealth Rock<Earthquake. Earthquake prevents Gliscor from being too passive. Also, you should change the EVs on Spe as 56 Spe is enough to outspeed Jolly Bisharp, thus you can invest more on bulk.
• A major change I guess. You should change Milotic<Primarina as it is also a good check to Keldeo and it is not too passive like Milotic. It also has good SpD and can destroy defensive teams. There is also little switch in for it.
• I think you are better of Rocky Helmet<Leftovers on Scizor. It is the standard item on the bulky SD set. While Rocky Helmet may sound appealing for punishing physical attackers, it will always get worn down cause of it. Leftovers can keep it healthy for more pivoting.
• I noticed your team that your team lacks something to remove steel types reliably. With steel types around, Stoutland is not free to click it's stabs. So Magneton>Togekiss will help your team trap Steel types such as Scizor and Forretress. Choice Scarf Magnezone will also give you a scarfer and an offensive pivot.

So overall, the team looks fundamentally sound. I think the implementation of these changes will help. Wish you luck with your team.

Changes

Mairi (Gigalith) (F) @ Smooth Rock
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 HP / 56 Def / 200 SpD
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Rock Blast
- Earthquake
- Stealth Rock
- Toxic

Skorgla (Gliscor) @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 252 HP / 196 Def / 56 Spe
Impish Nature
- Knock Off
- Earthquake
- Taunt
- Roost

Primarina @ Choice Specs
Ability: Torrent
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Moonblast
- Psychic
- Energy Ball

Cobe (Scizor) (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Technician
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- U-turn
- Bullet Punch
- Swords Dance
- Roost

Magneton @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Magnet Pull
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunderbolt
- Volt Switch
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Flash Cannon

 

[mewnited]

Thanks a lot fren! :)

Those Gigalith changes are very reasonable and i will implement them.

About the Primarina change, until now I tried Empoleon for a change because I really wanted some hazard control and couln't drop moves from Scizor or Togekiss. Worked alright with HP/SPDEF spread, lefties and Scald-Knock Off-Defog-Roar. What do you think? I will playtest it anyway.

The argument about Magneton > Togekiss is also reasonable, I just wonder about what kinda set I should playtest. Is Scarf really viable over Eviolite? And the moveset should be Volt Switch-T-Bolt-Flash Cannon-HP Fire either way I guess. I also tried Offensive NP Togekiss and it became somewhat of my second wincon (especially against bulky teams and to break cores) so I am a bit shy to drop it. What do you think?

Thanks for the effort!

 

[esche]

Hi, cool team, neat to see a sand build without Aero for once. I'll leave a rate as well.

Threats/Issues I could find:

• Stall: You actually can't beat stall with your Togekiss set, it's too weak to have reasoanable shot at handling Unaware Clef and will drop to Toxic sooner or later.
  
• Hazards: Spikes (+ Rocks) annoy your team a lot and while you do have recovery on most of your mons, being forced to heal every time you come in drains so much momentum. You don't want Stoutland so weakened that it just drops to the next best priority move either.
  
• Choice Specs Keldeo: Specs Secret Sword hits Milo on the switch-in once and you are forced out (a competent player while always double expecting Togekiss to come out next). The next time it comes out everything drops to Hydro Pump.
• Alakazam: Scizor is full PhysDef so even Sash variants have a good shot at 2HKOing after Rocks with Shadow Ball + Focus Blast and don't even get me started on LO. SpDef Togekiss is not a good check because it is highly susceptible to Psyshock and Stealth Rock hurt it a ton on the switch-in already (see above: no hazard removal option hurts).
• Fast SD Scizor: Milotic can't Haze if Scizor is fast and it actually dies to +2 Bug Bite after Rocks since it's SpDef. You mentioned that Rocky Helmet Scizor is your answer versus opposing Scizor but quite frankly it doesn't beat them because they SD twice and blow you back with a Superpower or 2 Bug Bite while you have to boost alongside them and even then you can't pressure them enough before they kill you.

Approaches to fix the abovementioned issues + some moveset suggestions:

• 
  
  Of course the star of the team will not be changed, I only made a slight change to its moveset, opting for Fire Fang and Superpower over Wild Charge and Ice Fang. PseudoBoltBeam seems nice to have but I would much rather hit the incoming Steel types (Fire Fang for Scizor and Forretress, Super Power for Empoleon, Bisharp and Cobalion) on the switch-in to make sure they drop to Frustration the next time Stoutland comes in. You will have to predict the switch-in but honestly that's not that hard of a call to make considering nothing really wants to take a neutral Banded Frustration to the face...
  
  
• 
  -->
  
  
  I recommend using Hippowdown>Gigalith as a sand setter on this team. With Victini leaving the tier, Gigalith unfortunately loses one of its biggest selling points over Hippowdown, being a better check to it. Other than that Hippo has more reliable recovery in Slack Off, not having to go with RestoChesto like Gigalith does and also checks Bisharp. A mixed defensive spread helps you deal with Raikou reliably while still taking all kinds of physical hits. Idk whether Edge or Whirlwind is the way to go here tbh, Edge is important because Hippo is your dedicated Aero check and Talonflame looks like it could be troublesome (if more people start using it), but you have to be cautious of DD Haxorus. In the end, I think Gigalith niche is more restricted to a spot on defensive teams which provide Wish support for it, but not really on BO like this.
  
  
• 
  
  If you're using Togekiss as a stallbreaker you should most definitely use Heal Bell>Dazzling Gleam. Fairy coverage doesn't hit anything that Air Slash doesn't already hit neutral and having a cleric option for yourself in the stall match-up + healing your defensive core from status is always appreciated. I changed the EV spread to a more offensive variant that outspeeds Jolly Bisharp and 2HKOs with Air Slash at +2 (assuming you do flinch it ofc). Because Clefable is still (for some reason) in the tier and Unaware Clef messes with Togekiss' capability of breaking stall (unless you get like 4 flinches in a row) you can also try out Aurasphere instead. It makes dealing with Bisharp much easier.
  
  
• 
  -->
  
  
  Gigalith being replaced by Hippowdon and changing Togekiss to Heal Bell made me reconsider the spot of Gliscor on the team. I came to the conclusion that an additional Water and Fire resist (main reasons: Keldeo and Volcanion) would be appreciated and Latias>Gliscor fit the role perfectly. A LO set with Draco Meteor/Psyshock/HP Fire/Recover fit best here to aid Stoutland, catching opposing Scizor and Bisharp on the switch-in. I chose Life Orb over Soul Dew to guarantee the KO on standard mixed defensive Scizor after Stealth Rock + the KO on simple max HP variants (Band) at -2 after a Draco Meteor.
  
  
• 
  
  Your Scizor set of choice is fine imo, bulky SD fits this team very well. The only change I would make to it is a slight alteration of the EV spread. Full PhysDef doesn't help you with anything in particular, a spread of 248HP/96Def/152SpD/12Spe Impish) helps you with Alakazam (takes a LO Shadow Ball followed up by Focus Blast) plus lets it take attacks from Latias better, while still taking hits from threats like Aerodactyl and Krookodile reasonably well. Also go with Leftovers, punishing U-turn users doesn't yield nearly as much advantage as passive recovery does.
  
  
• 
  -->
  
  
  Now this is where it gets interesting. I thought a lot about this change, first considering Jellicent over Milotic as a better Keldeo answer and additional Scizor check (w/ Defog on Latias), but I was not pleased with the Primarina match-up at all so I re-evaluated this spot on the team. Changing one squid for another was the solution I could come up with. Tentacruel>Milotic gives your team the hazard control you needed, a valuable pivot for Primarina and the set I chose handles SD Scizor and CM Clefable comfortably 1v1 (you have a lot more PP). Now the issue with Tentacruel is that it gets worn down very easily, coming in on hazards and taking all kinds of chip damage (from U-turn for example). This is why this Tentacruel has Rest. Toxic Spikes, while useful for pressuring grounded mons, were OK to pass up on on this team, I felt. You also have Heal Bell on Togekiss to wake it up if you need to. The final move besides Scald and Rapid Spin is Haze to deal with the aforementioned set-up sweepers.
  
  previous idea

  

  -->

  

  (not sure on this one)
  This is the change that you don't have to make if you wish to keep Milotic but if want a full-blown counter to Keldeo, go with Jellicent>Milotic as it literally can not touch it. The main reason for using this over Milotic is that it helps dealing with opposing SD Scizor better, especially since fast SD variants screw over Milotic pretty badly. I recommend using a physically defensive variant with enough speed to outpace base 65s. Taunt/WoW/Hex/Recover are what I would use on this but Scald/Toxic/Taunt/Recover also works if you are more concerned about hitting Ground and Fire types super effectively. Unfortunately, Primarina still bops Jellicent with Moonblast which is why this change is optional and SpDef Milo does have a place on this team. Oh well Primarina will pretty much always be hard to switch into unless you run Empoleon lol. However, Water Absorb does mess with most opponents heads so that they click Moonblast more often, you can use that to your advantage with Scizor n_n

Replays

• Replay #1: I manage to net a surprise kill turn 1 and Latias gets to pick of Metagross with HP Fire from where the combination of Togekiss and Hippowdon can just close it out.
  
• Replay #2: Ended up loosing this game not expecting special Nape but turn 1 is something I wanted to share with you anyway.
  
• Replay #3: This is what happens when the Togekiss answer is Bisharp. Stoutland didn't even have to come out but it won too.
• Replay #4: This showcases how important it is to take sand turns into consideration and that Stoutland isn't restricted to a late game sweep. Using it early in conjunction with sand damage to get rid off suicide leads and breaking holes opens up opportunities for Scizor and Togekiss.
• Replay #5: Good game overall that I lost to an unfortunate miss in the end. I should have gone for Draco straight on Gliscor and was punished for that by missing the second one later but other than that I think the game was played fine. Identifying what Stoutland is capable of in the beginning of the game is important: Priority was ubiquitous in this game + Doublade meant it wasn't doing much so I focused more on the other members of the team.
  
• Replay #6: Most recent replay, when Staraptor had already been implemented. I'm fairly sure it won't stay but for now Gigalith might be worth running again LOL Seriously though, Hippowdon is still the pick I'd go with in the long run. The speed tie win was fortunate but in the end RestHaze Tenta closed it out regardless of the Clefable variant (even BoltBeam doesn't beat it).
  
• this one made me sad tho

Import

Stoutland @ Choice Band
Ability: Sand Rush
Happiness: 0
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Frustration
- Crunch
- Superpower
- Fire Fang

Hippowdon @ Leftovers
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 248 HP / 72 Def / 184 SpD / 4 Spe
Impish Nature
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- Stealth Rock
- Slack Off

Togekiss @ Leftovers
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 232 HP / 96 SpA / 180 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Air Slash
- Heal Bell
- Nasty Plot
- Roost

Scizor @ Leftovers
Ability: Technician
EVs: 248 HP / 96 Def / 152 SpD / 12 Spe
Impish Nature
- U-turn
- Bullet Punch
- Swords Dance
- Roost

Tentacruel @ Black Sludge
Ability: Liquid Ooze
EVs: 232 HP / 216 Def / 40 SpD / 20 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Haze
- Rapid Spin
- Rest

Latias @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Dragon Pulse
- Psyshock
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Recover

Sorry if these seem like a lot of changes but I honestly feel like they were necessary. Let me know what you think!