Metagame SM NU Alpha Discussion (read post #153)

[quziel]

Pre-Alpha Stats WIP

raw stats

https://hastebin.com/raw/axipolayip

The following is a list of all mons of a certain typing above the #250 usage mark in RU

List of Mons by typing

normal

Snorlax

Komala

Dodrio

Ambipom

Cinccino

Drampa

Exploud

Toucannon

Bibarel

Ditto

Gumshoos

Ursaring

And many more...

flying

Tornadus

Dodrio

Minior

Golbat

Braviary

Noivern

Yanmega

Moltres

Sigilyph

Charizard

Xatu

Archeops

Togetic

Toucannon

Scyther

Vivillon

Masquarian

Ninjask

Rotom-Fan

Oricorio

Articuno

And many more...

bug

Durant

Vikavolt

Yanmega

Ribombee

Accelgor

Shedinja

Scyther

Vivillon

Masquarian

Leavanny

Whirlipede

Ninjask

Armaldo

fire

Salazzle

Talonflame

Ninetales

Chandelure

Moltres

Delphox

Charizard

Emboar

Incineroar

Houndoom

Typhlosion

Camerupt

Turtonator

Silvally-Fire

Magmortar

ice

Glalie-Mega

Froslass

Cryogonal

Piloswine

Sneasel

Avalugg

Silvally-Ice

Vanilluxe

Aurorus

Beartic

Abomasnow

Crabominable

Jynx

fairy

Whimsicott

Slurpuff

Ribombee

Shiinotic

Granbull

Togetic

Mawile

Carbink

Clefairy

Wigglytuff

Vulpix-alola

poison

Golbat

Drapion

Qwilfish

Victreebel

Weezing

Vileplume

Skuntank

Whirlipede

Haunter

ground

Seismitoed

Steelix

Claydol

Dugtrio-Alola

Gastrodon

Piloswine

Mudsdale

Palossand

Quagsire

Sandslash

Golurk

Camerupt

Torterra

Rhydon

dragon

Drampa

Guzzlord

Druddigon

Turtonator

Altaria

steel

Durant

Steelix

Sandslash-Alola

fighting

Hitmontop

Machamp

Virizion

Hitmonlee

Pangoro

Poliwrath

Medicham

Emboar

Scrafty

Hitmonchan

Crabominable

Gallade

Hariyama

Passimian

Primeape

Electric

Rotom-Mow

Vikavolt

Eelektross

Lanturn

Golem-Alola

Raichu-Alola

Electivire

Togedemaru

Rotom

Manectric

Rotom-Fan

Ghost

Hoopa-A

Jellicent

Froslass

Mismagius

Cofagrigus

Chandelure

Spiritomb

Shedinja

Trevenant

Gourgeist (all formes)

Palossand

Sableye (?)

Golurk

Rotom-N

Dusclops

Oricorio-Sensu

Haunter

Dark

Absol-Mega

Persian-Alola

Shiftry

Pangoro

Drapion

Guzzlord

Sharpedo

Incineroar

Spiritomb

Scrafty

Sneasel

Houndoom

Sableye

Cacturne

Raticate-Alola

Skuntank

Pawniard

Rock

Minior

Shuckle

Omastar

Cradily

Kabutops

Golem-Alola

Aggron

Archeops

Lycanroc-Midnight

Aurorus

Barbaracle

Crustle

Regirock

Carbink

Rhydon

Armaldo

Water

Slowking

Seismitoad

Jellicent

Bruxish

Pyukumuku

Vaporeon

Omastar

Gastrodon

Poliwrath

Sharpedo

Kabutops

Swampert

Qwilfish

Lanturn

Politoed

Wishiwashi

Quagsire

Clawitzer

Ludicolo

Barbaracle

Bibarel

Basculin

Grass

Whimsicott

Rotom-Mow

Lurantis

Shiftry

Exeggutor-Alola

Cradily

Shiinotic

Trevenant

Cacturne

Victreebel

Abomasnow

Exeggutor

Ludicolo

Sceptile

Leafeon

Lilligant

Tangela

Gourgeist (All formes)

Ferroseed

Leavanny

Vileplume

And of course every Silvally forme.

Please PM me if I missed any mons above 250 usage, or if I have anything that moved to RU during the month (in the type part, of course).

Acknowledgements

Watchog
RedzoneX
AnishSomani
Thank you for the help sorting out the stats

Visual Typing Guide (WIP)

Normal:

Flying:

 

[guan123]

Remove alakazam from the list because it moved up to UU. If you ask me, NU pre-alpha is looking like ORAS RU with a few new pokemon on it. Speaking of which, has trick room gotten any better now that there are more slower, heavy-hitting pokemon?

 

[Jisoo]

Remove alakazam from the list because it moved up to UU. If you ask me, NU pre-alpha is looking like ORAS RU with a few new pokemon on it. Speaking of which, has trick room gotten any better now that there are more slower, heavy-hitting pokemon?

I'm not quite sure how much better trick room has gotten because its always been an ok playstyle but its still got the problems its always had. I do still think offense is the more prominent playstyle from looking at the list since we didn't lose a lot besides like Tyrantrum but we still have offense staples like Whimsicott, Durant, Froslass, Hitmonlee, Ribombee, Accelgor, and a lot more. Thats just my two cents but I don't see too much changing but I can't wait for Alpha!!

 

[6ft Torbjorn]

I'm curious when the actual Alpha NU ladder is going to be up. Any ideas?

 

[quziel]

It will be up in April, once that month's stats are released.

Edit: making this an actual post:

Snorlax and Tornadus are easily the two biggest changes this month has given the pre-alpha, one of which can be an incredible win condition, and special sponge, the other being an incredibly powerful special wallbreaker, or purveyor of silly bulk-up sets.

Snorlax
So, I forsee 3 major sets having an impact in this metagame, the first of which would be the very classic curse set, which really appreciates the tier's pursuiters eaisly removing the ghost types that can stop it.

Rest-Talk Curse

Snorlax @ Leftovers
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 188 HP / 144 Def / 176 SpD
Careful Nature
- Curse
- Return
- Rest
- Sleep Talk / Earthquake

This really is the classic set, and is flexible enough to stop pretty much any special fire from beating your team, while providing a very reliable win condition once ghosts are moved, provided you can avoid roar. Expect to see it supported by Spiritomb and Drapion as a very potent member on balance style teams, which love the amount of roles it can compress into one, checking Chandelure (is it actually here?), M-Glalie, and blanket checking the strong special attackers of the tier easily.

A more Offensive, and mid game centered, approach to the classic Curse set is the new addition of Gluttony Curse, which allows you to essentially have a 50% healing move on demand, at the cost of being very vulnerable to status. This essentially means you can easily run additional coverage, without having to worry about giving up Sleep-Talk.

Gluttony-Curse

Snorlax @ Aguav Berry
Ability: Gluttony
EVs: 188 HP / 144 Def / 176 SpD
Careful Nature
- Curse
- Return
- Crunch / Earthquake
- Recycle

The lack of a need to use Rest for recovery enables you to play Snorlax a fair bit more aggressively, although you need to be very wary of Knock Off, as it removes every single bit of your recovery. The freed up moveslot also allows you to easily, and safely, carry Crunch or Earthquake, which really ease your matchup vs Ghost or Rock/Steel types, although you may not want to play this Snorlax vs the Toxic-carrying Steelix.

The final noteworthy set is the classic choice band, which fits excellently on Bulky Offense teams, which uses its incredible bulk to get in easily vs special attackers, and throw out very high powered normal moves. The ability to also easily pursuit Ghost / Psychic types with the threat of Crunch in the background means you can clear the way for a friendly Normal or Fighting type to sweep.

Choice Band

Snorlax @ Choice Band
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Return
- Facade
- Earthquake
- Pursuit / Crunch

Tornadus

I don't really believe that the viable sets for Tornadus will have changed since last gen, so its not really necessary to list them, as Bulk-up and the LO attacker will both be very viable, as will some rain sets. The main impact of this mon will be to force virtually every team to carry a hurricane resist that doesn't keel over to a Superpower, which I'm not sure the tier even has. Even then, its Bulk-up set can situationally throw out Priority Acrobatics, which can make it super difficult to revenge with scarfers.

Essentially, you're gonna have to rely on bulky Electrics,or praying they miss Focus Blast while you try to take it on with a rock type at least in terms of defensive swap ins. Luckily, it doesn't have a speed tier high enough to beat Scarfers, at least if its not using a Tailwind set, so its still relatively easy to revenge, either with a Scarfer or strong priority from the likes of Piloswine/M-Glalie.

Tornadus-Calcs

252 SpA Choice Specs Tornadus Focus Blast vs. 188 HP / 176+ SpD Snorlax: 272-322 (53.5 - 63.3%)
252 SpA Choice Specs Tornadus Focus Blast vs. 40 HP / 208+ SpD Lanturn: 170-201 (42.3 - 50.1%)
252 SpA Choice Specs Tornadus Hurricane vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Rotom-Fan: 123-145 (40.4 - 47.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

 

[Rennyjesus]

Whaaaaatttt????

Snorlax, Tornadus, Absol Mega, Swampert and Sharpedo? This alpha is gonna be hard to swallow... xD

Notable mentions to Whimsicott, Virizion, Froslass, Pangoro, Chandelure, Slurpuff, Machamp, Glalie Mega, Durant, Noivern, Moltres, Sigilyph and Dodrio, just because while not as broken as the other 5, they will be kinda overwhelming...

And congrats to Talonflame on going from Hero to Zero in just one gen xD (even though I think it might be banned from NU because of Flyinium Z).

See ya!

 

[Tymano]

Whaaaaatttt????

Snorlax, Tornadus, Absol Mega, Swampert and Sharpedo? This alpha is gonna be hard to swallow... xD

Notable mentions to Whimsicott, Virizion, Froslass, Pangoro, Chandelure, Slurpuff, Machamp, Glalie Mega, Durant, Noivern, Moltres, Sigilyph and Dodrio, just because while not as broken as the other 5, they will be kinda overwhelming...

And congrats to Talonflame on going from Hero to Zero in just one gen xD (even though I think it might be banned from NU because of Flyinium Z).

See ya!

Both of Mega Absol and Swampert are UU by usage, so they didn't drop to NU.

 

[Blast]

New banlist for Pre-Alpha, put in alphabetical order for convenience:

Hide

Aerodactyl, Alomomola, Araquanid, Bewear, Blastoise, Bronzong, Chesnaught, Cloyster, Comfey, Crawdaunt, Cresselia, Darmanitan, Dhelmise, Diancie, Donphan, Doublade, Dragalge, Entei, Escavalier, Espeon, Feraligatr, Florges, Flygon, Galvantula, Gardevoir, Gigalith, Gligar, Golisopod, Goodra, Hawlucha, Haxorus, Heliolisk, Heracross, Honchkrow, Jolteon, Kingdra, Kommo-o, Kyurem, Lucario, Lycanroc, Mantine, Milotic, Necrozma, Nidoking, Nidoqueen, Porygon2, Registeel, Reuniclus, Rhyperior, Roserade, Rotom-Heat, Shaymin, Slowbro, Stoutland, Suicune, Swellow, Torkoal, Toxicroak, Tyrantrum, Umbreon, Venomoth, Venusaur, Zoroark

Drops: Politoed (no Drizzle), Snorlax, Tornadus

Rises: Aerodactyl, Cloyster, Comfey, Cresselia, Dragalge, Espeon, Gardevoir, Hawlucha, Lycanroc, Rhyperior, Shaymin, Stoutland, Torkoal, Tyrantrum, Umbreon, Venomoth, Zoroark

 

[Melons-N-Soda]

To those worried about Swampert, Chandelure, Mega Absol, and the like, they're all UU right now.

 

[6ft Torbjorn]

Which Rapid Spinners do we specifically have? I'm looking to make a team in time for NU around this Bronzor set, and I heard he has a hard time checking Spinners:

Bronzor @ Eviolite
Ability: Levitate
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 8 Def / 8 SpA / 240 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Stealth Rock
- Toxic
- Psywave
- Flash Cannon

I'm thinking some sort of spinblocker would be good alongside it, but I'm not sure which (planning on AV Golurk rn).

 

[poh]

Which Rapid Spinners do we specifically have? I'm looking to make a team in time for NU around this Bronzor set, and I heard he has a hard time checking Spinners:

View attachment 79126

Bronzor @ Eviolite
Ability: Levitate
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 8 Def / 8 SpA / 240 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Stealth Rock
- Toxic
- Psywave
- Flash Cannon

I'm thinking some sort of spinblocker would be good alongside it, but I'm not sure which (planning on AV Golurk rn).

On the second post of this thread you can find a little role compendium where you can find some hazard removers so that should help you. Idk if Bronzor will be as effective as last gen but Bronzor should be paired with a Knock Off absorber. As far as defensive spinblockers go your best bet will be Jellicent, Gourgeist, Spiritomb, Silvally-Ghost and i'm probably forgetting others. The remaining Ghost types are listed at the top of this page.

 

[Skelos]

Which Rapid Spinners do we specifically have? I'm looking to make a team in time for NU around this Bronzor set, and I heard he has a hard time checking Spinners:

View attachment 79126

Bronzor @ Eviolite
Ability: Levitate
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 8 Def / 8 SpA / 240 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Stealth Rock
- Toxic
- Psywave
- Flash Cannon

I'm thinking some sort of spinblocker would be good alongside it, but I'm not sure which (planning on AV Golurk rn).

Yup PoH is right (although i feel bronzor might still be a dominant force on defensive archetypes). I just wanted to stress out Rest>Flash cannon, since flash cannon hits like a wet bag and actually doesnt hit anything, while rest gives bronzor the longetivity it needs, and lets it beat the things it checks 1v1. Bronzor also pairs well with a bulky fairy type, like aromatisse etc. to absorb knock offs and beat most dark types that threaten it.

I also just wanted to drop some funsets™

Meloetta @ Life Orb
Ability: Serene Grace
Happiness: 0
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Relic Song
- Close Combat
- Frustration
- Knock Off (filler)

Yes. Many may say that this set is inferior to the standard Aria sets (It actually is >_>), but trust me its fun. Pirouette form outspeeds the entire meta after transforming, making it able to perform late-game sweeps on weakened teams. Not really sure what the meta would look like, this set may fail to break more defensive archetypes, although it seem to pick off more offensively oriented teams. Definitely meloe's not set of choice but could bring some victories with surprise factor, but must be taken into consideration that it's just at most a niche or even a gimmicky set, especially that it reverts back to aria when switched out.

Minior-Meteor @ White Herb
Ability: Shields Down
- Shell Smash
- Acrobatics
- Earthquake
- Power Gem/ Stone Edge|Rock Slide

I guess this is in alpha?

Reason why i didnt give this one evs is because I'm not sure what'll be most optimal in the meta, if running bulk over speed would be benificial, since core form hits 120 spe anyway, but will make you think twice since meteor has a very low speed and is more likely to be revenge killed you aren't running speed.

Anyways, we might have lost cloyster, this could be another good smasher. With a powerful neutral coverage, it becomes a terrifying sweeper (real good one this time) if it manages to reach core form, although you need the right fodder to do so, like a resist or a passive mon. Might be a tough thing but merits a lot if done well, since like the hardest of checks are like ORAS's best normal resists like regi, bronzor,don etc., so pairing it with normal types like Meloetta-Pirouette might be the best thing to do.

 

[erisia]

Updated the OP with the new drops/rises, will make a more detailed post later once I've actually played some games but suffice it to say that without Aerodactyl / Cresselia / Dragalge / Espeon / Rhyperior / Shaymin / Tyrantrum this is going to be a completely different (read, better) meta. :) Not sure why Ninetales is still here though.

ALSO POLITOED HYPE

 

[poh]

Over the past weeks I was thinking of mons that appreciate having a more powerful coverage move than they already have and with the introduction of Z-moves I worked on some sets that might me viable in SM NU.

Barbaracle @ Fightinium Z
Ability: Tough Claws
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Razor Shell
- Stone Edge
- Superpower
- Shell Smash

The combination of Shell Smash + Superpower becoming a 190bp All-Out Pummeling lets Barbaracle beat some of its traditional checks like Poliwrath, Gastrodon after a bit of chip, Lanturn (you don't need to risk missing Stone Edge) and dealing huge chunks to other mons (see calcs).

calcs

+2 252+ Atk Barbaracle All-Out Pummeling (190 BP) vs. 96 HP / 0 Def Poliwrath: 408-480 (118.2 - 139.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Barbaracle All-Out Pummeling (190 BP) vs. 252 HP / 244+ Def Gastrodon: 360-424 (84.5 - 99.5%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO after 1 layer of Spikes
+2 252+ Atk Barbaracle All-Out Pummeling (190 BP) vs. 40 HP / 140 Def Lanturn: 493-580 (122.9 - 144.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Barbaracle All-Out Pummeling (190 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Seismitoad: 338-398 (81.6 - 96.1%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO after 2 layers of Spikes
+2 252+ Atk Barbaracle All-Out Pummeling (190 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Virizion: 509-599 (157.5 - 185.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Barbaracle All-Out Pummeling (190 BP) vs. 248 HP / 148+ Def Eviolite Ferroseed: 440-518 (151.2 - 178%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Barbaracle @ Icium Z
Ability: Tough Claws
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Naughty Nature
- Razor Shell
- Stone Edge
- Blizzard
- Shell Smash

This is more of a gimmick but can actually work if you don't have a way do deal with bulky grasses. After a Shell Smash, Subzero Slammer lets you beat mons like Vileplume, Gourgeist, Torterra and you don't have to risk hitting Stone Edge on Shiinotic.

calcs

+2 0 SpA Barbaracle Subzero Slammer (185 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Vileplume: 352-416 (99.4 - 117.5%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO
+2 0 SpA Barbaracle Subzero Slammer (185 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Gourgeist-Super: 408-482 (109 - 128.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 0 SpA Barbaracle Subzero Slammer (185 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Torterra: 744-876 (188.8 - 222.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 0 SpA Barbaracle Subzero Slammer (185 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Shiinotic: 324-382 (100 - 117.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Scyther @ Fightinium Z
Ability: Technician
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Aerial Ace
- Reversal
- Roost
- Swords Dance

Scythers big problem has always been the fact that it gets easily forced out by sturdy Rock and Steel types. Brick Break is just to weak to solve the problem but Z-Reversal becoming a 160bp All-Out Pummeling might help it.

calcs

+2 252 Atk Scyther All-Out Pummeling (160 BP) vs. 244 HP / 0 Def Steelix: 336-396 (95.4 - 112.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO after 1 layer of Spikes
+2 252 Atk Scyther All-Out Pummeling (160 BP) vs. 252 HP / 16+ Def Regirock: 304-358 (83.5 - 98.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO after 2 layers of Spikes
252 Atk Scyther All-Out Pummeling (160 BP) vs. 80 HP / 0 Def Klinklang: 276-326 (98.2 - 116%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO
+2 252 Atk Scyther All-Out Pummeling (160 BP) vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Solid Rock Rhyperior: 370-436 (85.4 - 100.6%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO after 1 layer of Spikes
+2 252 Atk Scyther All-Out Pummeling (160 BP) vs. 40 HP / 140 Def Lanturn: 391-460 (97.5 - 114.7%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO

Lilligant @ Psychium Z
Ability: Own Tempo
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Giga Drain
- Dream Eater
- Quiver Dance
- Sleep Powder

This is quite an effective lure to get rid of annoying poison types like Garbodor and Weezing and many more!

calcs

252 SpA Lilligant Shattered Psyche (180 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Garbodor: 412-486 (113.1 - 133.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Lilligant Shattered Psyche (180 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Weezing: 468-552 (140.1 - 165.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Lilligant Shattered Psyche (180 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Vileplume: 380-448 (107.3 - 126.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+1 252 SpA Lilligant Shattered Psyche (180 BP) vs. 0 HP / 252 SpD Assault Vest Hariyama: 376-444 (87.6 - 103.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO after 1 layer of Spikes

If I have other ideas that might work I'll edit them here so stay tuned :p Oh and let me know what you think of these sets!

 

[Rennyjesus]

Hey guys!

Are you happy to finally get Ambipom and Cinccino after so much RU trolling?

In a more serious note, I would use 176 Speed EVs on Minior with a neutral nature to outspeed invested base 50 before smashing and to outspeed base 130 after smashing in shell forme... that should be more than enough, while giving you some bulk...

About Fightium Barbaracle, I would rather use Cross Chop... that gives you a move that you can still use semireliably after consuming All Out Pummeling and it does enough damage for almost any threat that you covered besides maybe Gastrodon (because if you are just using that set in a spikestack team, why not use 3 layers of spikes and CChop-AOP for Seismitoad?)...

See ya guys!

 

[Marrrrrrrrrr]

Are you happy to finally get Ambipom and Cinccino after so much RU trolling?

Just warning you, I have been seeing Ambipom significantly more lately, so be prepared.

 

[guan123]

Just warning you, I have been seeing Ambipom significantly more lately, so be prepared.

What is the niche of ambipom/Cincinno in NU? If Golisopod falls down here, Ambipom is totally outclassed (First Impression > Super Fake Out) and Cincinno is a slightly better Tauros (a bit faster), but this metagame is more like ORAS RU than ORAS NU.

And can anyone please give me advice on Pangoro? This seems like a good pokemon (Got banned to BL2 last gen, seems pretty good this generation). Good teammates, perhaps?

 

[erisia]

What is the niche of ambipom/Cincinno in NU? If Golisopod falls down here, Ambipom is totally outclassed (First Impression > Super Fake Out) and Cincinno is a slightly better Tauros (a bit faster), but this metagame is more like ORAS RU than ORAS NU.

Big difference between this metagame and ORAS RU is that most teams don't run a Steel-type (unless they have Steelix for rocks or Silvally as a pivot), so Normal-types can get a lot more mileage with their STAB attacks than before. So this makes Technician Fake Out a great general chipping tool and lets Cinccino do a lot more in general. They're still a bit slow for some big threats but I don't think they'd be bad by any means in this meta. Anyone who isn't consciously running a solid Normal-type check like Jellicent or Cofagrigus is going to have a hard time (and even then they get Knock Off).

 

[MaahirMomtaz12]

Big difference between this metagame and ORAS RU is that most teams don't run a Steel-type (unless they have Steelix for rocks or Silvally as a pivot), so Normal-types can get a lot more mileage with their STAB attacks than before. So this makes Technician Fake Out a great general chipping tool and lets Cinccino do a lot more in general. They're still a bit slow for some big threats but I don't think they'd be bad by any means in this meta. Anyone who isn't consciously running a solid Normal-type check like Jellicent or Cofagrigus is going to have a hard time (and even then they get Knock Off).

Ambipom and Cinccino are faster than most mons in NU LOL. 100 and 115 speed aren't slow

 

[erisia]

Ambipom and Cinccino are faster than most mons in NU LOL. 100 and 115 speed aren't slow

386 / Talonflame / 126 / Positive / 252 / 0
381 / Ribombee / 124 / Positive / 252 / 0
379 / Noivern / 123 / Positive / 252 / 0
372 / Sceptile / 120 / Positive / 252 / 0
366 / Salazzle / 117 / Positive / 252 / 0

Base 115 Speed is okay but it's not ideal considering these Pokemon are all viable and / or common and easily capable of one-shotting Ambipom and Cinccino. Most offensive teams will usually either have one of these or a faster Scarfer like Rotom-Mow (or something like Sharpedo / Speed Boost Yanmega) to deal with threats like these, so aside from revenge killing their Speed tier can be a bit of an issue in the early game. RIP the days of ORAS where base 110 was basically good enough to do the job.

 

[poh]

Z-Move Users in Neverused

Samurott @ Waterium Z
Ability: Torrent
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Aqua Jet
- Waterfall
- Megahorn

+2 252+ Atk Samurott Hydro Vortex (160 BP) vs. 252 HP / 128 Def Audino-Mega: 352-415 (85.8 - 101.2%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO

+2 252+ Atk Samurott Hydro Vortex (160 BP) vs. 252 HP / 148+ Def Weezing: 328-387 (98.2 - 115.8%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO

+2 252+ Atk Samurott Hydro Vortex (160 BP) vs. 0 HP / 152 Def Hariyama: 580-684 (135.1 - 159.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Standard SD Samurott set, but now with Hydro Vortex to allow it to break down bulkier pokemon like Arromatise and Type:Null, that would have rendered it useless until it's teamates wore them down earlier on, Mega Audino in particular, allowing it fit onto teams without stuff like Specs Magmortor or Choice Band Bouffalant. Most of its other items were pretty much useless, Water incense didn't provide enough power, and Samurott wasn't satused enough to make Lum Berry worth it. Just don't click Z-Aqua Jet though, just don't.

Lilligant @ Normalium Z
Ability: Own Tempo
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Quiver Dance
- Energy Ball/Giga Drain
- Hyper Beam
- Sleep Powder

+1 252 SpA Lilligant Breakneck Blitz (200 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Weezing: 389-458 (116.4 - 137.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO

+1 252 SpA Lilligant Breakneck Blitz (200 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Garbodor: 342-403 (93.9 - 110.7%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO

+1 252 SpA Lilligant Breakneck Blitz (200 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4- SpD Magmortar: 335-395
(115.1 - 135.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Kind of like Quiver Dance + Breakneck Blitz Pheromosa in OU. Liligant was always hard walled by bulky poison and fire types such as the aforementioned pokemon and others such as vileplume and syther due to it's lackluster mono-grass type movepool containing nothing but Hidden power as coverage. Life orb wore it down to fast, bringing the need for giga drain along with it and choice scarf meant it couldn't run quiver dance or sleep powder at all, making Z-Items the biggest indirect buff for it. Z-Hyper Beam is only Z-move it can viably run, btw, look a its movepool and you'll find out why.

Wall This (Dodrio) @ Flynium Z (Or Fight-Z but that's really inferior)
Ability: Early Bird
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Brave Bird
- Return
- Jump Kick
- Swords Dance

+2 252 Atk Dodrio Supersonic Skystrike (190 BP) vs. 84 HP / 108+ Def Eviolite Ferroseed: 322-381 (128.8 - 152.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO

+2 252 Atk Dodrio Supersonic Skystrike (190 BP) vs. 252 HP / 208+ Def Audino-Mega: 348-411 (84.8 - 100.2%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

+2 252 Atk Dodrio Supersonic Skystrike (190 BP) vs. 252 HP / 148+ Def Weezing: 379-447 (113.4 - 133.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Once used (or rather, not used) to wallbreak early on to aid its teamates to clean, it now does the complete opposite, and with Z-Brave Bird doing the wallbreaking for it, allowing it to steamroll soon afterwards. Even the bulkiest flying resists in NeverUsed struggle to take on a + 2 dodrio...
+2 252 Atk Dodrio Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 16+ Def Regirock: 190-224 (52.1 - 61.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

+2 252 Atk Dodrio Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Rhydon: 222-262 (53.6 - 63.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

+2 252 Atk Dodrio Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 192+ Def Solid Rock Carracosta: 178-211 (50.5 - 59.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
This thing is just impossible to wall.

Hi there! After reading through your post I had a few remarks in mind that I wanted to share with you. First of all I don't get why you're including Mega Audino in your calcs since Mega Audino isn't released atm. Second, I feel like your calcs show poor examples because Samurott doesn't really care about Hariyama anyway and Dodrio doesn't really care about Weezing as it gets 2HKO'ed by banded brave bird.

+2 252+ Atk Samurott Waterfall vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Hariyama: 358-423 (83.4 - 98.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Choice Band Dodrio Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 148+ Def Weezing: 180-213 (53.8 - 63.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery

Another Z-set Lilligant can run is Z-Dream Eater to nail down poison types and isn't completely dead weight as it can be used in conjunction with Sleep Powder.

After Dodrio gets up an SD it looks extremely threatning as you showed in your calcs. However if I'd run a Z-move on it it would be Z-Jump Kick (and no it's not "really inferior") to punish those flying/normal resists even harder. Again not sure why you'd go for Z-Brave Bird vs Ferro when can just Jump Kick it.

 

[Disjunction]

wall

I reject the notion that fight z dodrio is inferior. suddenly ever bulky rock type in the tier is unable to check it at +2 from full which is far more important in terms of wallbreaking than a one-time nuke, in my opinion, especially considering how difficult it is for dodrio to set up to +2 in the first place. I haven't tried SSSS Dodrio, so I won't go around acting like it's shit, but it's extremely disingenuous to say that Fight-Z is inferior in any way.

second wall

I'm also curious about this post, too? Why is a +1 Wood Hammer against Samurott a relevant calc worth sharing? Why is a +1 Shadow Claw against a -Defense nature Archeops being a roll to kill a good supporting argument in favor of Z-Forest's Curse Trevenant? This set seems so absurdly slow and fairly weak to be able to do anything outstanding in NU, especially with the incoming surge of power creep we've been seeing. If I saw better damage against stuff like Garbodor, Weezing, and Vileplume (aka regular grass checks) I'd be more favorable towards this set, but it seems very mediocre as is.

Also, why did you feel the need to share the Foul Play calcs with Persian? Any Dark-type with Foul Play accomplishes the same thing and you're more showcasing the individual sweepers' power more than anything. I'm also unsure about the viability of Pyukumuku in the tier with Baton Pass being banned considering how big of a momentum suck it is now. There are several current NU mons that can do Dark-Z Memento better (Skuntank and Whimsicott come to mind) than something that relies on Soak + Toxic for field presence.

 

[cyanize]

Those are just some example calcs, im not trying to say that archeops is a wall or that Fight-Z is bad, its just that it makes more sense to pair Dodrio with something like samurott or lillagant to combat rock types, instead of suddenly trying to overwhelm every rock type in the tier and lose half of your offensive pressure in the processes.

+1 252+ Atk Trevenant Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 200+ Def Garbodor: 274-324 (75.2 - 89%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

+1 252+ Atk Trevenant Shadow Claw vs. 204 HP / 0 Def Vileplume: 192-226 (56.1 - 66%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Black Sludge recovery

Trevanat definitely isn't *mediocre*

Trevenant doesn't even ohko Garb with +1 EQ. That's uh.... kinda mediocre. It can just Haze you afterwards, and now you just have a Trevenant with essentially no item sitting around being useless. Similarly, Trev barely 2hkoing offensive Vileplume with +1 Shadow Claw is also very mediocre, especially considering something like Band can do the exact same thing.

This is all also disregarding the fact that it's extremely susceptible to the high number of Sucker Punch users in the tier, and it lacks KO power on neutral targets that aren't frail as hell (the Archeops calc demonstrated this perfectly, actually.) So I'd say it's very easy to claim that Trevenant is mediocre as Disjunction said.

 

[Plas]

Don't have much time but mentioning some shit I see that's gonna be absurd that has not been mentioned and some cool mons with my fav item in the game [:

Nobody has really mentioned Lax even though lax absolutely smashes this meta.

Snorlax @ Leftovers
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 188 HP / 144 Def / 176 SpD
Careful Nature
- Rest
- Curse
- Return
- Sleep Talk

Standard. EVs from smogon so they'll probs be updated for shit as the meta evolves. This thing just blows the meta. There are very few bulky ghost types and just stick a drapion or skuntank on for pursuit and you're fine. This thing sets up on 80% of the meta and bar phasers and hazers this thing just flat sweeps.

Snorlax @ Figy Berry
Ability: Gluttony
EVs: 188 HP / 144 Def / 176 SpD
Careful Nature
- Recycle
- Curse
- Return/Body Slam/Facade
- Crunch/EQ

Different set taking advantage of berries+recycle. This set also looks good as fairly reliable recovery and you don't have to rely on talk rolls. Also allows you to hit ghost types if you care enough. Drapion however is also looking super clean so like drapion+granbull+snorlax core is looking absurd. Stick like rotom-mow on there or something.

More offensive mons that are viable. Looking there are very little steel types rn. Thus this thing is looking ridiculous

Gardevoir @ Choice Specs
Ability: Trace
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Moonblast
- Psychic
- Focus Blast/Shadow Ball
- Trick/Shadow Ball

252 SpA Choice Specs Gardevoir Moonblast vs. 244 HP / 252+ SpD Steelix: 106-126 (30.1 - 35.7%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Gardevoir Focus Blast vs. 244 HP / 252+ SpD Steelix: 360-424 (102.2 - 120.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Steelix is the only steel type that is not 2hkoed by moonblast in the tier. Psychic for poisons. You can also run like twistedspoon to bluff specs to force in pursuiters and get a hell of a lot of damage on mons like drap, spritomb and skuntank.
Scarf is also looking absurd as well with all of the potential offense and set up mons tricking them scarf or running memento.

Also due to this meta looking fairly offensive time for my boy slowking the g to come back.

Slowking @ Eject Button
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 248 HP / 248 Def / 12 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Psyshock
- Thunder Wave/Toxic/Yawn
- Slack Off

Solid pivot on offensive squads. Lets you get in a wallbreaker. Also a HUGE fan of button hitmontop setting up intimidate for a like turt or barb to smash up and break their team for a scarfer to clean or some nice prio hitter like bruxish.

Overall I had like 5 minutes. This meta honestly is looking SUPER diverse. All of HO, BO, Stall and Balance all have incredible options. This'll be one hell of a fun meta and can't wait to get started. Never really got into NU in ORAS but intend to get into it this gen; Take a break from LC occasionally.

 

[Skelos]

"Normalspam"ggs (Drampa) @ Leftovers
Ability: Cloud Nine / Sap Sipper
EVs: 252 HP / 140 Def / 116 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Flamethrower
- Roost
- Dragon Pulse

Snorlax has the spotlight on all of the normal types we've got, but this one seems to be some good stuff that dropped.

CM Drampa is very fun to use, as this set punishes lots of slower and bulkier builds, although its low speed leaves it vulnerable to the more common faster fairy/ice/fighting/dragon types in the tier. Although that's the case, it doesn't have much trouble setting up Calm Mind thanks to its natural bulk. The efficiency of this set relies in CM, so try setting up as soon as threats are gone or weakened. Putting a normal stab also doesnt seem optimal since dragon/fire already have a perfect neutral coverage. Some people might think berserk would also be a good ability, but afaik and tested, it only boosts SpA once even though you go back and forth
50% HP.

calcs

From Offensive/ Defensive Threats
0 SpA Aromatisse Moonblast vs. +1 252 HP / 0 SpD Drampa: 150-176 (41.6 - 48.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Noivern Draco Meteor vs. +2 252 HP / 0 SpD Drampa: 282-332 (78.3 - 92.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Ribombee Moonblast vs. +1 252 HP / 0 SpD Drampa: 270-320 (75 - 88.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
From Neutral Fodders etc.
16+ Atk Rhydon Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 140+ Def Drampa: 135-159 (37.5 - 44.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ SpA Slowking Psychic vs. +1 252 HP / 0 SpD Drampa: 97-115 (26.9 - 31.9%) -- guaranteed 4HKO (AV King)
252 SpA Life Orb Pyroar Hyper Voice vs. +1 252 HP / 0 SpD Drampa: 122-146 (33.8 - 40.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Salazzle Sludge Wave vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Drampa: 151-178 (41.9 - 49.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

With +1, teams that rely on non-cm aromatisse/ other fairies similar to check dragon types would already be problematic with this. In addition, its physical bulk would let it blanket check relatively passive stuff and mons that doesnt hit it very hard. It also serves as a nice fire resist, and is very safe from their coverage moves after setting a cm up, barring fightiniumz magmortar which actually might be a thing oo.

Drampa might not be the best of things atm due to this fast paced meta but sure could make its mark by breaking some balanced teams and making stall cry. All in all a fun mon to play in alpha.