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Is there any reason Final Gambit is legal here? While Ghost-types are far easier to come by and -ate can chip it, there are many ways of getting around it - Having stuff that's simply powerful enough to force out Ghosts or Scrappy, as well as being an -ate that forces other -ates out. It's very easy to just lure out the opponent's -ate answer and OHKO them with Final Gambit. Granted, there are consequences too, mainly it being a one for one trade. However, I think the move isn't going to end up being broken as much as uncompetitive, since anything gets it now and you can't actually reasonably expect everything to have Final Gambit, while in regular BH Final Gambit is generally dedicated towards high HP mons like ZygC, Chans, and Bliss.
Also on paper, having Primal Groudon banned but Camerupt-Mega, Camerupt and Numel legal seems really weird considering there's no difference between them anymore. Personally what I'd do depends on if you plan on looking at Eviolite at all or not (if not banned thru avgmons alrdy). If you do deal with Eviolite, I'd ban all of them (or just ban V-Create, since that's what makes these things difficult to handle in this meta) and if you don't, I'd just unban Pdon, then have a suspect test since I feel a lot of the same issues will exist as in regular BH.
e: light ball, thick club, and any other items shouldn't be legal either but idk if that's banned via avgmons or not
This metagame is based on the Averagemons banlist, so Pdon is unbanned while those items are. I will ban FInal Gambit as it's essentially a free 1 for 1 on any Pokemon, and I can't believe that would be healthy for this metagame.
EDIT: Banning Triage from AAA + Fortemons. Here's a replay. It is extremely broken allowing hugely powerful priority that regenerates health to be spammed freely.
Hello! Tonight I had decided to make changes to the current viability rankings as it's been over 3 months since it had any revisions. I have decided to do this myself for the night and in the future, reflect on Disciple_1's thoughts. There may be another update soon. Hopefully for now, these changes would make the viability rankings seemingly more accurate than the original version.
VR RANK CHANGES:
RISES:
Regigigas: A -> A+
Muk-Alola: A- -> A
Sableye-Mega: A- -> A
Slowbro-Mega: A- -> A
Gyarados: B -> B+
Magearna: C+ -> B-
DROPS:
Mewtwo-Mega-Y: S- -> A+
Scizor-Mega: A+ -> A
Sceptile-Mega: A -> B+
Yveltal: A- -> B-
Palkia: A -> C+
ADDITIONS:
Blissey: E -> A+
Doublade: E -> A-
Raticate-Alola: E -> B-
Articuno: E -> C+
Various changes have been made in abilities as well.
Feel free to discuss
I'm pretty bad at explanations but I'm going to try explaining all of these changes.
RISES:
Regigigas: A -> A+
Truthfully I'm glad this one was pointed out by Disciple_1 because it's one of the very few Pokémon I felt weird about raising for the same reasons he had mentioned on his post. This change came from a reaction of raising both Alolan Muk and Mega Sableye to A before then. Despite not seeing too much Regigigas usage other than from my sample, and one other user, I felt Regigigas went above and beyond with its role as a Mold Breaker Pokémon, being able to imposterpoof itself too well and potentially forcing Prankster Haze to carry Safety Goggles. Noticing Mega Sableye and Alolan Muk's rise, I ended up believing this Pokémon had higher efficiency and deserved higher value than the Pokémon at A rank.
Muk-Alola: A- -> A
Sableye-Mega: A- -> A
These two follow the same reasoning. With their single weakness and their immunity to Photon Geyser, both Alolan Muk and Mega Sableye have proven to become standing figures in this metagame and are great contenders for a position as the best Wonder Guards. However their one glaring weakness is what prevents them from being any higher given how common these weaknesses are used, especially on Mega Mewtwo X.
Slowbro-Mega: A- -> A
Mega Slowbro is able to fully take on many Huge Power Mega Mewtwo X users with its raw defense stat and its resistance to Photon Geyser, which is a feat even Pure Hackmon's most overall defensive Pokémon like Giratina and Zygarde-Complete tend to have a harder time doing. Because Mega Slowbro was given this opportunity, it is also given high value, similar to that of Alolan Muk and Mega Sableye.
Gyarados: B -> B+
Although not the easiest to handle, Gyarados is still able to successfully perform its role with possibly little worry depending on the opposing team composition. Being able to set up this Pokémon requires scouting a Mega Mewtwo X's item and either a choice between getting rid of the opposing Imposter or an opposing Prankster Haze. The latter can render Gyarados completly useless without Taunt, the former can stop your Gyarados from sweeping properly as you either have to remain in your normal form and have Wonder Guards block you or Mega Evolve and risk having this sweeper and potentially the rest of your team get knocked out by an Imposter. Gyarados suffers the most from a four-moveslot syndrome in this metagame as you'd want Magic Coat, Taunt, and/or Substitute while at the same time you want Shell Smash and Power Trip. All of this severely stops Gyarados from going much higher. Despite all these being reasons to put Gyarados at a lower rank, Gyarados has proven to not only be a decent Wonder Guard but a decent Illusion Pokémon when used right, and the chances of its success are high enough to where it's more usable than the Pokémon below it on the viability rankings.
Magearna: C+ -> B-
At the time I placed Magearna at C+, I was the only one I've known to have used it. However, since then I have seen and played games against Magearna that have performed noticeably better than when I have ran it. The key feature this Pokémon was given is of course, its dual typing. Steel/Fairy allows Magearna to act pretty decently as it's one of the few Wonder Guards immune to Toxic via Steel-type and can use Fairy-Type, as well as its fair SpA stat, to put a dent on bulky dragons and Mega Mewtwo X that switch in. Magearna as a Wonder Guard has shown to me more than what the Pokémon below it could because of these two feats that were exemplified by the games I've seen.
DROPS:
Mewtwo-Mega-Y: S- -> A+
Simply put, Mega Mewtwo Y is a great hitter and sometimes a decent Wonder Guard but doesn't live up to the Pokémon at S- rank. I didn't see much it could do other than run moldy moves and try imposterproofing itself or having another member imposterpoof it and without any stat boosts, it's weak. This is especially the case when you compare it to its physical counterpart. For example, I found this Pokémon surprisingly missing KOs from offensive Pokémon it hits super effectively with Moongeist after a Quiver Dance.
Scizor-Mega: A+ -> A
This Pokémon was by far the hardest to drop. While I still believe that this is currently our best Wonder Guard, I no longer believe it's much better than Alolan Muk and Mega Sableye as to deserve a definite higher rank. Mega Scizor's biggest flaws are that 1) Its sets leave it more vulnerable to Shadow Tag and Trick than the other two. This is because many of its sets either have Powder to block Fire-type moves, which is a strategy that can easily become manipulated by Shadow Tag users, and other Mega Scizor can often run setup and Baton Pass, more so than Mega Sableye and Alolan Muk, which leaves Trick giving Scizor a harder time. While Alolan Muk is also able to more easily fall for both of these schemes, I believe it's a bit harder to manipulate into such a scenario, as the move Alolan Muk relies on significantly more than the rest of its moves can threaten many Shadow Taggers and Trick users, and isn't used to help it wall specific attacks, which in Mega Scizor's case the other player could bluff. Another one of its biggest flaws is how in order to use Powder effectively, one would have to ensure the opposing side isn't running Safety Goggles on their Pokémon with Fire coverage, as Safety Goggles makes them immune to Powder. Mega Scizor can quickly become lost after finding out its opponent is carrying this item. The last big flaw is rather more minor, but a banded Mega Mewtwo X can leave Scizor as a sitting duck, as it 2HKOs with ease. On Disciple's post, he mentioned how he didn't see Mega Scizor underperforming, however, there were matches I've seen and been through where it felt kinda flat and not as reliable as what I have hoped nor as reliable as what I've placed at A+ rank. These are what ultimately caused me to drop it down and it's the only Pokémon I felt bad dropping while doing so.
Sceptile-Mega: A -> B+
I've seen almost no usage on this Pokémon, but simply put part of its main strategy as I've found at least involves using Spore and Destiny Bond, which can be avoided but incredibly helpful for it when pulled off. I've also been running Parting Shot to at least lower the foe's stats before working around them with my switchin. Overall I still think this can be a decent Pokémon, but to compare it with far more usable Pokémon was a no go for me.
Yveltal: A- -> B-
I'm not exactly sure how this Pokémon can be ran more efficiently in a way that would make it better than anything above it on the viability rankings. I've been through numerous different sets, all with big flaws. Offensively it's outclassed while defensively it can only do so much to take small amounts of damage. One of the best things I can imagine for it is Liquid Ooze with Pursuit, King's Shield, and either Sacred Fire or Will-O-Wisp. Unfortunately it doesn't hit enough to get what it wants. This Pokémon might even be lower rank in the future.
Palkia is a good Mon but this just isn't the generation for it. With the advent it ability ignoring moves the niche that Palkia had as a out of the box wg mon has been completely destroyed. Unfortunate to see it happen since I quite liked that mon but necessary.
ADDITIONS:
Blissey: E -> A+
Blissey is really good but is overtaken by Chansey in most ways. The reason it is being ranked is because 10 HP does provide a niche over Chansey with both of its abilities: With Innards Out it is able to OHKO opposing Chansey and Blissey with Final Gambit and with Imposter Blissey is arguably better with items that aren't Eviolite. However the latter is more minor given how the player can decide to bluff Eviolite with another item as a gimmick.
Doublade: E -> A-
Like Mega Slowbro, except it more heavily relies on the foe not having Knock Off. Also more vulnerable to special attacks.
Raticate-Alola: E -> B-
This Pokémon's gracious typing allows it to wall both Photon Geyser, Spectral Thief and Moongeist Beam, allowing it to sweep easier and has only one common offense type as a weakness, allowing this Pokémon to serve as a decent Wonder Guard. The main problem with this however is that it's Raticate. It can only have so much Atk and Defense to muster and can be taken down more easily than the Wonder Guards above it on the VR. Despite this, the ability for Raticate to work as a Power Trip user and and Wonder Guard separately allowed it to become more effective than whatever is below B-.
Articuno: E -> C+
I couldn't deny giving this Pokémon a ranking. It's like Froslass, but bulkier and doesn't have to struggle with its ability or item in order to block the second most common OHKO move. I found matches against this Pokémon quite interesting as the Magic Bounce set I stood up against was capable of forcing out many Pokémon via Soak and Freeze Dry. Despite being x4 weak to Stealth Rock, when played right without being against a Mold Breaker with hazards you can prevent rocks from coming in and keep Articuno safe, forcing more switches. This Pokémon was intended to not only give most Deo-S a hard time but to work with hazards, by having another teammate set them up or by bouncing them back, then forcing the opponent to switch with Soak and Freeze Dry. Unfortunately there isn't anything else I could see this Pokémon doing and it can be easily shut down by any Mold Breaker or offensive Pokémon faster than it.
To summarize all of this I moved these Pokémon based on their effectiveness in comparison to the Pokémon above their rank, below their rank, and at their rank. Whatever I felt was more than noticably more effective than whatever was below or equal to I placed higher and vice versa. If you have any further questions or need further explanation don't hesitate to ask.
Played a few games with this core, it's designed to be able to get quick KOs for Soul-Heart, though at the probable cost of your own mons, while also helping Kommo-o avoid getting targetted by priority. I think Kommo-o might be the best user for this since with Clangorous Soulblaze it can avoid being useless without any Soul-Heart boosts, and it only really struggles to hit anything that would resist or block clanging scales. Kommo-o faces problems with being outsped by Slush Rush and the like, however, while it's also weak to -ates and opposing psychic terrain, and has to watch out for soundproof (which I think would become a thing to check clanging scales, hyper voice, etc), but this can be compensated for by the rest of the team (delta stream subseed celesteela, scarf psychic surge genesect, and flash fire mega mence were what I had on the rest of my team, and I don't think I had to send out celesteela in any game).
Raikou @ Manectite
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Snarl
- Volt Switch
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Thunder
Incineroar @ Altarianite
Ability: Intimidate
Happiness: 0
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- U-turn
- Flare Blitz
- Fake Out
- Frustration
Kangaskhan-Mega @ Kangaskhanite
Ability: Inner Focus
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Fake Out
- Seismic Toss
- Sucker Punch
- Roar
I built a team for this, and I have to say there really are a lot of options for this meta and it took me a while to build something that I'd stick to. This team was initially built around finding a way to make Manectite and Incineroar viable, since Megaman and Incineroar are the best intimidate spammers in DOU (lando-t is notable, but as far as I've seen it doesn't pivot as often as it used to), which lead me to add Raikou (has volt switch and snarl and is very strong after mega evolving). Altarianite on Incineroar lets it act initially as a way to check psychic-types and nerf things like Groudon, while later being able to change into a more offensive mode that resists fairy and fighting (2 notable coverage move types of mewtwo and lele, used because they can't hit non-mega incin with their psychic STAB). Fairy Aura from Xerneas is able to boost Incineroar's fairy STAB return, and while I initially had Primal Groudon to boost Incineroar's Flare Blitz, I got rid of it after realizing how impactful Desolate Land is on Manaphy's performance. Diancite on Manaphy means it gives up a lot of bulk for an insane 160 SPA and Spe stat, and with Tail Glow and Primordial Sea support, it can hit things insanely hard with Scald. Mega Kangaskhan is just Kangaskhanite because stoss is great, and Roar lets it deal with trick room setters (Inner Focus lets it avoid the fake out of it's not mega evolved yet).
Xerneas and Kyogre have pretty standard and self-explanatory sets.
Darkrai @ Focus Sash
Ability: Bad Dreams
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 29 HP / 0 Atk
- Dark Void
- Dark Pulse
- Nasty Plot
- Protect
In regards to the fire types, couldn’t they also take advantage of (Z)-Forest Curse?
This allows them to turn a neutral to Fire Wonder Guard foe into a Target for Burn Out, by adding a Grass typing.
For example: Spider Web/Filler, Forest’s Curse, Burnout, Filler.
You can avoid Wonder Guard.
What about Tornadus-Therian form with Roost and Wonder Guard? Remove it’s only typing at will, and never have to deal with hitting an opponent. Give it Substitute to block Status moves and you are golden. Yes, the ability is dependent on outspeeding the foe, but helpful sets like Shift Gear/Shell Smash, Sunsteel Strike, Roost, Substitute can eventually outspeed and hit anything after a few boosts, while gaining immunity as needed. Sunsteel Strike might not have STAB, but it’s Attack will eventually be enough after some Boosts.
It’s Flying typing also affords it Immunity to Spikes, Toxic Spikes, and most importantly Sticky Web.
1) Fire-types can do this but it doesn't really solve their main problems. You can try using 2 moves just to have no weaknesses and then get thrown by phazing or KOed by moldy moves / beaten out by Mold Breaker before these Pokémon actually do anything and you take up two movepool just to try giving yourself full immunity. Wonder Guards would much rather use their 4 moves to set up or clear out than to have a type change. Burn Up is also useless after it has been used once. The most I can see this strategy doing is like what Articuno does, constantly force Pokémon to switch out, but more Pokémon would accept getting hit since it's only once you can use this attack. Any offense Pokémon can do better with Forest Curse and Sacred Fire or even Dragon Ascent or Oblivion Wing.
For Tornadus, I see this Pokémon having a hard time being able to switch into anything and set up to where it's golden, as many top threats outspeed it from the get go. This Pokémon also seems vulnerable to PP stall and Encore since it has to rely on recovery spam to get rid of its only typing. Pokémon such as Deoxys-Speed could come in, use Sing, hit it with Sheer Cold twice or force it out without using Gastro Acid and it'll be done. I have previously mentioned how hard it would be to get it to set up in the first place, likewise with Burn Up on the VR, you're more than likely having to constantly repeat the process in a game, which Wonder Guards who are actually good don't have to worry about just for their typing. This isn't a metagame that allows you to keep your defensive Pokémon in for long and I hope in the future that this is more realized.
Summary: If a Wonder Guard has to change its typing using moves in order to become "good" it is not good.
Also quick comment on Zorowarrior's post about AAA, Slaking and Regigigas aren't the same here. Regigigas is likely not to be viable due to its unsupportive movepool whereas Slaking's movepool is much more expansive and usable.
Disciple_1 has been appointed co-leader of Pure Hackmons, joining Ransei. Congratulations Disciple1, we all look forward to your continued contributions :)
Hello, well done Disciple_1 and fair point ransei about the movepool. For AAA Ubers, I've got a, uh, rather unorthodox core, which hasn't been tested but works real well on paper.
Tapu Koko @ Damp Rock
Ability: Drizzle
EVs: 248 HP / 8 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Thunder
- U-turn
- Roost
- Reflect
Palkia @ Dragonium Z
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 80 SpA / 176 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Earth Power
- Spacial Rend
- Hydro Pump
- Rain Dance
I did tell you it was rather unorthodox. It came upon me recently to build a weather-based team, as the only thing of that sort we've seen is electric terrain, and that is used quite rarely. So, I generally prefer fast pivots as setters, something that can also slightly abuse the rain to a certain extent. Tapu Koko gets perfectly accurate Thunder, a pivot, and even a screen because the team lacked a bit of Defense. I cannot think of anything that would fit this slot better. So now I wanted a damage dealer. I was thinking and thinking, and I thought that Kyogre was probably the best water type that's viable so I went with it and remembered Origin Pulse. Mega Launcher. OUCH. This literally 2KOs the entire non-resisting meta, and even 2KOs stuff like Ferrothorn. It KOs most of the meta lol. And so yeah, I used that set. Ice Beam is obvious coverage, almost perfect bar Water types so I put Thunder with the rain. HP Ground it to severly punish Pdon switches and yeah. Not a lot can wall it. Speaking of Pdon, the core was still very weak to it so far. Very weak. So I wanted to come up with something that could lure it, yet still abuse rain. :Scrolling down list of uber mons:, and I found that PAlkia was 4x resistant to Fire. Levitate Palkia lures and wins. Also can abuse rain with Hydro Pump. Rain Dance can prolong rain for rest of team. 176 Speed is to outpseed max EVs adamant Pdon, while still leaving enough space for bulk and SpA. So, yeah, that's the core I thought of. What do you all think? I've made a team from it, but I won't post it until I test it. Unfortunately, I have been locked on ps! (rather unfairly in my opinion) so I won't be able to test it for another day, but I still have abyssal Bot lel.
Also, I think we should put all the viabilities in the OP under their respective sections.
1) Fire-types can do this but it doesn't really solve their main problems. You can try using 2 moves just to have no weaknesses and then get thrown by phazing or KOed by moldy moves / beaten out by Mold Breaker before these Pokémon actually do anything and you take up two movepool just to try giving yourself full immunity. Wonder Guards would much rather use their 4 moves to set up or clear out than to have a type change. Burn Up is also useless after it has been used once. The most I can see this strategy doing is like what Articuno does, constantly force Pokémon to switch out, but more Pokémon would accept getting hit since it's only once you can use this attack. Any offense Pokémon can do better with Forest Curse and Sacred Fire or even Dragon Ascent or Oblivion Wing.
For Tornadus, I see this Pokémon having a hard time being able to switch into anything and set up to where it's golden, as many top threats outspeed it from the get go. This Pokémon also seems vulnerable to PP stall and Encore since it has to rely on recovery spam to get rid of its only typing. Pokémon such as Deoxys-Speed could come in, use Sing, hit it with Sheer Cold twice or force it out without using Gastro Acid and it'll be done. I have previously mentioned how hard it would be to get it to set up in the first place, likewise with Burn Up on the VR, you're more than likely having to constantly repeat the process in a game, which Wonder Guards who are actually good don't have to worry about just for their typing. This isn't a metagame that allows you to keep your defensive Pokémon in for long and I hope in the future that this is more realized.
Summary: If a Wonder Guard has to change its typing using moves in order to become "good" it is not good.
Also quick comment on Zorowarrior's post about AAA, Slaking and Regigigas aren't the same here. Regigigas is likely not to be viable due to its unsupportive movepool whereas Slaking's movepool is much more expansive and usable.
Ya okay, I didn’t see where you had previously mentioned for Tornadus, but I believe your points are valid.
Tornadus was more of just an alternative to E rank Fire types, and Forest’s Curse was more of just a footnote of how a Fire type can use a work around (in the VR post you said it would be an issue to even activate Burnout due to various Wonder Guard users not being weak to Fire - I thought of you mentioning Forest’s Curse as an note).
I guess Tornadus would be no better than Prankster Electrify Dugtrio/Alolan (Steel typing), to block moves on a turn by turn basis, where at least Electrify makes any Attack or Status move (even on a sweeper with the ability Mold Breaker) unable to land a hit. Extreme Speed, Taunt, etc. would outspeed or render it ineffective.
Hello! Today I've decided to post statistics of the OM Mashups groupchat including the days the groupchat has been (re)created and records to show how far we have gotten as of yet. These statistics and records are from a span of over five months, ranging from June to today. Since June 10th, there hasn't been a day when the groupchat wasn't up, making the data in the first button below accurate.
The number in parenthesis showcases the amount of days each groupchat has lasted before it was recreated on the date in the bracket to the left of it
These are records at least seen by my own eyes. If anyone has seen higher, inform me.
Longest Time Lasted: 33 Days, July 16th 2018 to August 18th 2018, deleted by server reset. Highest # of users: 43, November 14th 2018 Highest # of tour participants: 16, Hackmons Cup Inverse, November 14th 2018. 15 excluding randbat formats, Averagemons Pure Hackmons, November 2018
Current # of roomauth: 8
1 Roomowner:
Ransei
1 "Roomowner":
drampa's grandpa
3 Roommods:
Roldski32, Snaquaza, We Wuz Nidokangz
2 Roomdrivers:
Brodaha, New Old Competitor (NOC Unlucky 13)
1 Roomvoice:
Greater Madnesss (Disciple_1)
That is all I have for now. As previously stated, what I've posted above is simply just a small but ongoing summary of how the groupchat has been running. Hope you all have a good day/night.
Little Cup has been recently banned Wingull. I'm still not sure if it still affects for LC Mashups for few reasons :
- LC AAA has access to Water-Immune Flying Resist and Desolate Land to switch-into when Wingull is on the field.
- LC STABmon was mostly likely to be affected, but i think with Munchlax being better at tanking special hits, it might not, so i'm still not sure here
- I don't think it wasn't broken as a Mega in MnM LC to be honest.
- Of course LC BH is not affected.
Now For LC STABmon
Someone mentioned this one should be looked at. The combination of Water Bubble and its newly moves such as Steam Eruption and Water Shuriken was made Dewpider quite threatening, in addition of getting access to Tail Glow. Despite having a limited movepool, Ice Beam and Giga Drain were enough coverage to deal with Water-Resist. Only mons that have access to Water-Absorb, Storm Drain and Dry Skin can reliably switch-in on this. Munchlax can switch-in as well as long as its not packing Steam Eruption on Tail Glow set.
Feel Free to discuss about Wingull and Dewpider in this thread. Also an update about LC AAA might come soon too.
Little Cup has been recently banned Wingull. I'm still not sure if it still affects for LC Mashups for few reasons :
- LC AAA has access to Water-Immune Flying Resist and Desolate Land to switch-into when Wingull is on the field.
- LC STABmon was mostly likely to be affected, but i think with Munchlax being better at tanking special hits, it might not, so i'm still not sure here
- I don't think it wasn't broken as a Mega in MnM LC to be honest.
- Of course LC BH is not affected.
Now For LC STABmon
Someone mentioned this one should be looked at. The combination of Water Bubble and its newly moves such as Steam Eruption and Water Shuriken was made Dewpider quite threatening, in addition of getting access to Tail Glow. Despite having a limited movepool, Ice Beam and Giga Drain were enough coverage to deal with Water-Resist. Only mons that have access to Water-Absorb, Storm Drain and Dry Skin can reliably switch-in on this. Munchlax can switch-in as well as long as its not packing Steam Eruption on Tail Glow set.
Feel Free to discuss about Wingull and Dewpider in this thread. Also an update about LC AAA might come soon too.
Yeah, my last attempt at an LC metagame didn't go that well. Anyway here I am. Wingull doesn't seem broken at all due to a plethora of new abilities that can be used to check it, as roldski mentioned desolate land, water absorb, heck, even regen can inspire regenvest mons.
Probably an unban.
About Dewpider. Dewpider seems way to broken for this meta. Water Bubble Steam Eruption hits like a truck even to resists. I imagine that you'd have to specially prep for this, which means it is centralizing, meaning it should be banned. A suspect at least would be in order, although this mashup probably isn't popular enough lol.
With the introduction of Let's Go ladders onto Showdown comes the possibilities of Let's Go OMs / mashups.
I'm going to post the code for some of them in here as a basis for tours and such, but they won't be being added to our permanent roster of metagames for common discussion and development in this thread.
Note that for many Let's Go metagames mechanics don't currently work how you would suspect.
I HAVE BEEN INFORMED BY ESTEEMED OM LEADER THE IMMORTAL THAT THE WAY WE RUN LETS GO HACKMONS IS NOT CORRECT
However we will continue to run it in this manner for the time being as there is no practical way to fix the issues we face (ie items and abilities shouldnt exist, and moves not found in lets go shouldn't be allowed. Moves is theoretically fixable with tour code, items and abilities is not).
FAQ:
Q: What's changed in the banlist from standard BH?
A: Magnet Pull and Water Bubble are both starting out unbanned. As these abilities ability to put in work and their broken, uncompetitive, or unhealthy aspects are inherently tied to the Pokemon found in the metagame and the frequency with which certain types appear, I thought it unfair to start with them banned. Given that Mega Gyarados and Mega Blastoise are likely to be the only two water types used frequently and Melmetal is the only Steel type with any real potential at first glance I don't see either of these abilities being overwhelming. If this proves untrue they can always be rebanned.
Q: Is this metagame played with candy?
A: Yes. This is based on Let's Go Singles No Restrictions, which does allow candy.
Q: Why aren't the Mega Mewtwo's banned?
A: BH is a metagame that always has extreme levels of both power and bulk. While the Mega Mewtwos certainly appear at first glance to be on a power level above that of the rest of the metagame, I feel it is against the philosophy of Balanced Hackmons to simply ban them immediately without testing them first. [/hide=Tour Code]
/tour new Lets Go Singles No Restrictions, elimination
/tour rules +Illegal, +Unreleased, -Arena Trap, -Huge Power, -Illusion, -Innards Out, -Moody, -Parental Bond, -Protean, -Psychic Surge, -Pure Power, -Shadow Tag, -Stakeout, -Wonder Guard, CFZ Clause, Ability Clause, OHKO Clause, Evasion Moves Clause, Endless Battle Clause
/tour autostart 15
/tour name Lets Go Balanced Hackmons
In both Let's Go Hackmons metagames abilities and items both function, and candies work. Pokemon not found in Let's Go are not allowed.
In Let's Go STABmons both abilities and held items do not function.
Banlist:
Pokemon: Mewtwo
Moves: Acupressure, Belly Drum, Chatter, Extreme Speed, Geomancy, Lovely Kiss, Shell Smash, Spore
FAQ:
Q: Why were Shift Gear and Thousand Arrows unbanned?
A: In a nutshell; lack of abusers. Shift Gear has four usable, fully evolved abusers: Magneton, Melmetal, Dugtrio-Alola, and Sandslash-Alola. I don't foresee any of these being overwhelming with Shift Gear, and certainly not enough to merit a quickban. Thousand Arrows has relatively more abusers, but the truly dominant ground types such as Landorus-Therian and Garchomp-Mega (which was dominant when Thousand Arrows was legal) are gone. Again the abusers we have do not seem strong enough to merit a quickban.
Q: Why can't I use Veevee Volley or Pika Papow?
A: They are unusable on PS due to requiring a motion censor on the Switch. This matches its usability in the base Let's Go OU meta. Please forward your complaints to whoever made the decision for them to be unusable there.
Q: Why can I use moves not present in the Let's Go game, such as V-Create?
A: This is how the tour code works. If I receive evidence that the moves aren't present in Let's Go code at all and the community desires it I will make the effort to create a banlist that removes the moves not present in the code.
Let's Go Inverse works exactly like Let's Go OU, except for the type effectiveness.
Banlist:
Pokemon: Mewtwo
Q: Is this metagame played with candy?
A: No. This is based on Let's Go Overused, which does not allow candy.
/tour new Lets Go OU, Elimination
/tour rules Inverse Mod
/tour Autostart 15
/tour name Lets Go Inverse
Does this even belong here? Not sure. As said in the Let's Go OU thread, this metagame has
No plans currently. It has an extremely shallow pool of usable Pokemon. If people want to play it aside from a ladder then follow traditional LC rules (must be able to evolve in that game, Level 5).
so I feel comfortable putting the code here for now.
Banlist:
Pokemon: All non-LC eligible Pokemon, TBA
FAQ:
Q: Can I use Pokemon with evolutions / prevolutions not present in Pokemon Let's Go?
A: This is to be determined and the single biggest reason why I have not yet made an initial banlist. Are Electabuzz and Magmar ineligible, or do they need a ban? Note that the server defaults to treating Pokemon as if only the Let's Go Pokemon exist, So (non-starter) Pikachu would be LC compatible but Scyther and Porygon would not.
Q: Can I use Pikachu-Starter or Eevee-Starter?
A: No, they cannot evolve and thus are not part of an evolutionary family.
Q: Is this metagame played with candy?
A: No. This is based on Let's Go Overused, which does not allow candy.
Q: Is this metagame played at level 5?
A: Yes. In any tours we run you will be required to manually set your Pokemon to level 5, and if you do not we will disqualify you at your opponent's request.
/tour new Let's Go OU
/tour rules Little Cup
/tour autostart 15
/tour name Lets Go Little Cup
Let me know if any of these tour codes need to be tweaked, if there's another lets go meta you'd like me to add*, or if something direly needs to be banned!
*Let's Go AAA does not work. Neither will Lets Go MnM, Lets Go Camo, Lets Go Partners in Crime, or any of our non-permanent ladders (well I could do Mediocremons if you really wanted :3)
So after initially scanning over these, and before I take the time to respond to each one individually, I think you're overall ranking things too high. I only have high ranks so far because everything is ranked relative to the best Pokemon; if Xerneas is the best and most meta-defining its S rank, and then the next Pokemon down are A+ or S- or whatever. If I placed everything as you had it we would have a ton of stuff in the A ranks, which isn't helpful to anybody because it just looks like we have a ton of top threats that are as good as each other.
We will ideally be moving towards the creation of lower ranks throughout this process. Think of them as existing, but just being empty for now.
and some insults to ur mental health to dish out (jk).
Slaking and Regigigas are basically in the same league, I just like using Slaking because it's not a legendary. They are excellent damage dealers and stallbreakers, with like only stuff like Skarm to threaten them, in the right scenario. My opinion is A+ for them.
I agree that Slaking and Regigigas should be in the same rank when they are ranked, unless something comes up that disrupts the obvious parallels (eg Gigas' superior special bulk suddenly becoming very important or Slaking's overall superior movepool with access to recovery / Pursuit or w/e). But for now they will be in the same rank when they are ranked.
However I think A+ is too high. If you look at the mons currently in A+ (Mewtwo, Rayquaza, Yvel) they are dominant. You build around them and against them. They are not easily replaceable with anything else and they are clearly not outclassed. They are largely flexible to some degree that lets them play around certain checks and counters. With Slaking and Gigas I don't see any of this. Yes, they are good. But their checks/counters remain fairly consistent no matter what set you run, they tend not to play more than one or two types of sets (although they admittedly do what they do very well) and they are arguably outclassed at most things besides immediate offensive presence by Arceus, which has better Speed, set up, and sustainability than either Slaking or Gigas. I don't think they belong above A- right now, and certainly not above Arceus.
Necrozma-Dawn-Wings doesn't really have anything that can wall its Z-move bar dark types. Even Skarmory can't switch in to SD then LTBTS. Opinion: A+ again.
I feel like A is a pretty fair place for pdon at the moment. Increased usage of Solgaleo at the moment is good for it, especially because its not as much of an offensive threat as NDM was. Taking other opinions.
Zekrom. Oh, Zekrom. Zekrom is amazingly strong, with band being able to 2KO ferrothorn with terrain (bolt strike). That's pretty damn impressive. A- since it hasn't seen much usage, and there are still plenty of checks.
I see Zekrom falling somewhere in the B range, for precisely the reasons you mentioned. It has some niche uses, and can fit on a team in more than one way, and if ignored as a threat can put in work, but isn't a top threat or something to be particularly scared of in the metagame by any means.
I think this is a case of the aforementioned overranking of Pokemon.
Celesteela. Good work as a spdef wall, but that's literally the only thing it outclasses skarm at, due to unreliable recovery. Unranked till drampa creates more ranks.
B+ sounds pretty good. It's the most reliable Xern answer I've found so far thanks to Heart Swap, but low stats make it hard for it to deal with meta threats if it doesn't resist their STABs.
Blissey is an interesting defensive wall, with amazing spdef, a good xern check unless moldy. B or B+ when it comes out.
I think that Giratina, while pretty unarguably better than in standard Ubers, has undeniable issues that prevent it from being A+ material.
1) Lack of reliable recovery. This essentially forces it to run a recovery ability (Poison Heal or Regenerator), rely on Rest (ew), or accept chip. While PH and Regen aren't bad by any means it means you can't run Magic Bounce, Intimidate, or other great defensive abilities very well.
2) Typing. Giratina's typing, while far from bad, doesn't really do it favors in the metagame right now. Since it's weak to Fairy and Dragon and doesn't resists Psychic it usually wants to go Pdef. This usually means fairing it with a common special wall or tank. The two most prominent special tanks in the metagame right now (in my experience) are Yveltal and Solgaleo. And Giratina shares weaknesses with both. A Tina-Yveltal core will get devestated by Xerneas, while Tina/Solgaleo will get eaten by any Ghost or Dark type that shows up, most notably Mega Gengar, Yveltal, and Marshadow.
While Tina can beat Pdon and those pesky PH normals (just dont get last mon swept) and has absurd raw bulk it just doesn't have the matchups against the majority of the tier or the splashability on teams to be A+. I would see it as a B or B+ Pokemon.
Normal Groudon is interesting, forming and almost unbeatable core with Xerneas (magnet pull). You can only hope to predict the switch on xern, and go into ur check.
I think I've run Shed Shell Solgaleo specifically for this (and Mgar). I hate trapping.
Now you may wonder what my suggestion is right now. well, AAA Ubers is such a broad meta, I think we should have an Untested rank. People can test the Pokémon in this rank, then come up with a set, then suggest a rank. Every mon I said 'saving' or 'later' for I hink should be in this rank. Now for some agreements and disagreements.
Thing is these mons aren't untested. You and I just don't know where to put them. That's why they're in the "To be ranked" category, which is essentially the exact thing you just asked for.
Absolutely agree. Amazing sweeper, and I hate having to run a check for it in every single game.
Alright, some disagreements here. Rayquaza just lacks the power to break through much. Adaptability and Tough Claws might pack a punch, but I haven't seen it used. Feel free to disagree.
Rayquaza's best set (imho) is Aerilate. Aerispeed is insane. Swords Dance and Espeed is basically all you need. Band is a crazy revenge killer. Other sets are good too, but Aerilate is insane. I feel very comfortable with Rayquaza in this slot, despite the overall lack of variance in its sets, because it can perform so many offensive roles with only minor changes to its set. As for "Lacks the power to break through much" it has some of the best coverage in the game, with V-Create, Earthquake, Waterfall, Iron Head, Overheat, Earth Power, Surf, Stone Edge, etc. etc, and it barely needs them thanks to SD + Aerilated STAB.
Mewtwo, agree. Not many checks, but still beatable, quite frail.
Yveltal. Yveltal. Yveltal is such a good Pokémon. Crazy good. Can run regenvest as a wall, triage as a revenge killer, or uh, idk about the other 2 abilities. still, can wall every single special attacker bar xern and its CS triage set even beats ho-oh when played right. Maybe have an S- for this or keep it where it is. Put it at the top of A+ at least.
Tiers are alphabetical for now. Yveltal is crazy flexible, and all of its sets are good, which imo is the main reason its a top threat. Not because of any single set being over the top (like Rayquaza).
Hmm. Arceus is very unpredictable but I'm pretty sure it's outclassed at everything it does, bar have amazing priority in espeed (even ray can do that). Pixilate is quite a good sweeper actually, same with mbouce and tinted. I think either stay or move down to A-.
Arceus is godly. It's the fastest bulkmon in the tier until people start running stalltwo, gets an amazing array of moves, and is really not outclassed in most of its sets.
-Offensive Poison Heal stands out due to access to Swords Dance, STAB Facade, great mixed bulk, and speed.
-Defensive Poison Heal stands out again for speed, STAB Facade, Defog, an alright defensive typing. Didn't save the replay but I had a match with Mark K today where I essentially sat there and ate his attacks for the half the match while outpacing key offensive Pokemon.
-Guts stands out for having an extremely strong priority that isn't mauled by status.
-Prankster stands out as a clutch wall able to Will-O-Wisp key targets before they hit and use its priority Recovery to outlast them.
etc. etc.
Arceus has almost unlimited potential. It is one of the most variable Pokemon in the metagame, and unpredictability is one of its best traits. I haven't even started on Multitype sets (which will admittedly probably be tiered separately). It can be physically offensive, specially offensive, physically defensive, specially defensive, run mixed bulk, be fast and bulky, whatever really. The only reason its not higher is because none of these sets are individually particularly hard to prep for. Every Arceus is outsped by Marshadow, and many cannot hurt it much. There is fairly reliable counterplay, but that doesn't stop it from being a Pokemon that is easy to slap onto teams, puts in heavy work basically every match, and can reliably fill a huge number of roles.
Gengar-mega, never used idk how it works. enlighten me.
Besides the standard stuff it can do in normal Ubers (fk Shadow Tag) it also gets Prankster Destiny Bond or a possible Special Attack boost before it megas. Prankster Destiny Bond makes it very risky to attack pre-mega. But mostly, Shadow Tag is an awful unhealthy ability that makes basically anything that gets it amazing.
Marshadow is a lot better than it is made out to be. Close Combat gets quite a lot of kills, Spectral Thief ges a lot of boosts, can even run Rock Slide for Ho-oh. Stay.
I could see Kartana in B+. Lack of high bp STAB moves means that it doesn't hit quite as hard as you'd like. Stuff with high bulk not weak to its STAB attack aren't actually uncommon in this metagame. I wouldn't say its speed is a problem because Ubers tends to hover around the ~90-100 speed tiers.
It hits hard af. It also has 95 Speed, which outpaces all the base 90s in the tier. Not many things appreciate switching into it.
Solgaleo is really good. it gets all sort of coverage to beat Ho-oh, other solgaleo, dragons, and fairies. Never tried Steelworker or tinted, but all the others I've tried and are quite good.
I personally think defensive Solgaleo is far better and certainly more important for the tier at the moment. This is largely because of Xerneas admittedly, and I think offensive sets have potential, but SpD is the name of the game rn.
Well, that's basically it, except Where the heck is skarmory? Skarmory is way better than you have implied, unless u just forgot lmao. Flash Fire beats Pdon and fire coverage and everything else in the meta. E: everything physical in the meta. Intimidate attempts to get rid of boosts like those of marsh, slaking, unecro, etc etc etc. It's a good Steal Rock setter as well as a defogger. Get in the real world dramps.
I'll add Skarmory to the "To be ranked" list. I've never used it or seen it, but it certainly sounds like something that would be viable, so input on where it should go with reference to how it compares to other Pokemon would be good.
I think that's everything, except... you should do a vr council thing like ransei did. also recommending Ransei for staaabmons leader.
Quick note that this resource is not official. People are of course welcome to build their own resources and people are welcome to use them if they find them helpful, but official resources will come in due time from the leadership of the given metagames.
As to what the form of that leadership is going to take; be patient. Constantly pestering me for results and answers only gets me aggravated. Rushing resources and decisions only makes them come out worse in the end, and having someone constantly asking about them makes me want to avoid working on any of them.
Oh. My. Goodness. I think I just found a viable ZU mon in AAAU (other than SlakGigas that is). Ditto. Think about it. It basically forces out the entire offensive meta.
Aaaaanyway, let’s go on to the real point of the post. I know I’m just a lowly Mashup player who everyone hates, but I think that a Teambuilding challenge would be fun for mashups, spark up some discussion, inspire people to build more and even have a few more entries for samples. Maybe like, ‘build around Blissey in AAAU’, or build around Darmanitan in STAAABmons. It would be great fun and I think people would participate and join in with metas they haven’t really played before like Little Cup Mashups for me. If I just randomly did an unofficial thing which I’m not gonna, less people would take part. Both this and a quick CCAT project use the same arguments, either of them would be fun but not both. Now for a random set without a lengthy description.
I've been interested in AAA Doubles for a bit, haven't got the chance to play it yet. I did make a few teams for it, and here are the sets I like best from them:
Tapu Fini @ Wiki Berry
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 64 Def / 124 SpA / 68 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Soak
- Heal Pulse
- Muddy Water
- Moonblast / Nature Power (if you have a Misty Surge user)
"I'll just kill it with Tapu Koko before it can use Heal Pulse on Mega Camerupt."
"Kommo-o can stay in on Zapdos, it resists Electric."
"My Unaware Cresselia can tank any attack thrown its way now that I've KOed their Dark-type."
"There's nothing standing between my +3 Zygarde and a sweep."
"STAB Pixilated Hyper Voice can pick up the KO here."
Amoonguss @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 248 HP / 8 SpA / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Spore
- Rage Powder
- After You
- Sludge Bomb
Prankster Amoonguss epitomizes disruption. Spore and Rage Powder are nothing new in Amoonguss's toolbox, even if the former is new to the +1 priority bracket. What really sets Amoonguss apart is After You, which lets an ally move first and totally disillusion anyone who thought that speed tiers were real.
A much more conventional set, but with Intimidate you can afford to invest in Zapdos's Special Attack and make it less of a sitting duck. It's about 20% stronger and 15% more physically bulky. You can, naturally, adjust the EVs to strike whatever balance you feel appropriate.
252 Atk Tough Claws Metagross-Mega Ice Punch vs. 244 HP / 136+ Def Zapdos: 208-246 (54.4 - 64.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 SpA Zapdos Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Metagross-Mega: 109-129 (36.2 - 42.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
-1 252 Atk Tough Claws Metagross-Mega Ice Punch vs. 244 HP / 0 Def Zapdos: 178-210 (46.5 - 54.9%) -- 64.5% chance to 2HKO
136+ SpA Zapdos Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Metagross-Mega: 133-157 (44.1 - 52.1%) -- 14.8% chance to 2HKO
So yeah, I decided that pivoting was awesome, so I decided to build a fun team that tries not to switch at all if can be helped. Obviously this is rare, especially when they bring in their Primal Groudon vs Magearna, and I’m forced to switch. But generally I can pivot instead of switch. I started off with my favourite typing, electric, and incidentally, Zekrom is the only Uber electric type, so I went for the classic revenge killer, Touch Claws scarf. This set is actually quite a good cleaner, with a base 130 power STAB move (not counting the amazing Tough Claws boost) and a pivot. I dislike Outrage in general but I decided that it didn’t matter if they brought their Xerneas in because I just switched to Magearna after they Geomancied. So yeah, there’s Zekrom, also dropping neat little Toxics onto switch in Primal Groudon. Still, Primal Groudon really annoys this Pokemon, which brings us onto the next Pokemon. Landorus-T. Landorus Therian was originally a random Flash Fire meme I brought to a room tour, but it actually lures in And beats Primal Groudon pretty well. Even better, it provides Rocks. Even better than that, if possible was that it continues the pivot spam! A pretty good wall in general. Next up, every team needs a Xerneas check, thus Magearna, which I’ve found to be the most reliable check in the game due to Heart Swap. Continues the pivot scene, and annoys set up sweepers, and just generally bosses the world with Fleur Cannon. Not every Specially Defensive wall can wall both Yveltal and Xerneas, And because I always want to avoid as much chip as possible, I added yet another pivoting check named Zapdos. Zapdos, I have decided, is the best stop to Oblivion spamming Yveltals, although if it knocks off your Vest, Dark Pulse can chip it quite a bit. Discharge over Thunderbolt is for the extra paralysis chance, and HP ice and Heat Wave are coverage. Well, at this point, I was satisfied by the defensive core and started working on offensive. Arceus seemed fun, hits hard with SD Facade, and just kills a bunch of steels with EQ, sub can really annoy stall, so I shoved this on. Sadly, this is the only Pokemon that cannot pivot so I am sad now. Lastly, I lacked a special attacker, but Xerneas is way prepped for and I don’t like it so I added Yveltal, the classic set. And so there’s the team. @drampa’s grandpa when are you going to update the vr? Very sorry for harrasement.
Anyway, what do you think about the CCAT / Teambuilding Challenge thing I suggested?
ive played and spectated a bit of lets go hackmons, and i think the meta is pretty shit, unfortunately. the lack of items and abilities means there isn't any real counterplay to a lot of degenerate strategies and thus the metagame is entirely centralised around spore. there is literally nothing you can do against a faster spore user except hope for good sleep rolls. the only decent spore-immune mon is mega venusaur which is weak to the stabs of the fast mons, so it isnt actually particularly effective at stopping any of the fast spore + shell smash dudes. it's a shame, but building and theorising for this meta made me realise that with even just a minimal banlist, lets go balanced hackmons has the potential to be a very interesting tier.
an initial ruleset i would propose for lets go bh:
Sleep Clause (it's possible that its better to just ban the sleep moves but idk)
Evasion Clause
OHKO Clause
Banlist: Shell Smash
this format seems super sweet to me: max avs in every stat mean that base stats have less of an impact on a pokemon's raw stats, possibly allowing for a wider range of viable mons. abilities and items being removed makes the metagame completely distinct from any other variant on bh, and the pikachu/eevee signature moves are interesting and powerful. 100% down to play this meta with ppl if anyone's up for it
You understand what I’m getting at right? Agility, spore, then spam OHKO moves. With bulk creep and assist of Glitzy Glow and Baddy Bad, it can easily take a hit from Mega Zam and not getting 2HKO’d.
You understand what I’m getting at right? Agility, spore, then spam OHKO moves. With bulk creep and assist of Glitzy Glow and Baddy Bad, it can easily take a hit from Mega Zam and not getting 2HKO’d.
Here is a set I have been using to check Mewtwo-Mega-Y. Trap, Sleep, Heal, Set-up. Sappy Seed = physical, but Quiver Dance is to boost the bulk, and boost Fire Spin, which can be more important than Speed.
Exeggutor
Ability: Chlorophyll
Calm Nature
- Lovely Kiss / Yawn
- Fire Spin
- Sappy Seed
- Quiver Dance
Venusaur-Mega is weak to Glitzy Glow, but does better against Beedrill-Mega (if it doesn't just use U-Turn), so its good to use both. Fire Spin + Leech Seed = 25% passive damage per turn.
Here is a replay before I switched out Spore for Lovely Kiss, note that after 1 Quiver Dance Exeggutor outspeeds MMX, this is something to keep in mind as you don't have the uneven balance of Speed like in regular Balanced Hackmons (which applies to all stats, and explains why something as frail as Alakazam-Mega is bulky - difference in stats is simply less impactful in Let's Go Eevee and Pikachu): http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7letsgohackmons-829485054
Venusaur-Mega would use the same set, and would outspeed Aero/Zam-Mega after 1 Quiver Dance.
Aerodactyl-Mega is still a problem for both, however, due to Aerodactyl-Mega's STAB Flying-moves, but you you can use Zippy Zap on Golem-Alolan for the super-effective STAB priority hit.
Golem-Alola is great for anti-meta, because it breaks Shell Smashers by hitting them 2nd on the turn they Shell Smash, and then 1st the following turn, both times after the -1 Defense drop. Many of these happen to be either Electric-type weak, or have a low Defense (Aerodactyl-Mega, Beedrill-Mega, etc.) It can also hit before the Spore, if they both come in at the same turn, and it can be used as a revenge-killer after the foe has used Shell Smash.
Sucker Punch is for Mewtwo-Mega-Y, Exeggutor, and Alakazam-Mega.
Golem-Alola is a blessing in disguise that many people would be pleasantly surprised to try. A top underrated threat! The best part is that Swords Dance can allow you to hit harder without sacrificing your Defenses, and Zippy Zap's Critical hit means that it breaks past any + Defenses your foe has set up, plus by using it if your opponent uses Sucker Punch, you prevent Sucker Punch (Sucker Punch fails if it isn't going first). Zippy Zap = +2 Priority, Sucker Punch = +1.
Sorry Sucker Punch Alolan-Muk, and Gyarados-Mega!
Maybe have a Shell Smash clause, rather than ban it. (2 per team). P.S. If we ban Spore, Lovely Kiss is even better, trading accuracy for bypassing Grass-type's Immunity. Seriously, I just switched all the Spore users on my team to Lovely Kiss - it pays to be 1 step ahead of the foe.
After testing some potential Inheritance Mashup with We Wuz Nidokangz, here are some things that we discovered :
We can only ban/unban pokemon as donors, and not the base.
Example: If we unbanned Xerneas, the result is you can only used Xerneas' ability and movepool, not Xerneas itself
Inheritance STABmon is possible but only from donors.
You can inherit a Pokemons's ability and movepool in addition of new moves, but not the base itself.
Example: Heatran inheriting from Hawlucha can get both Mach Punch and Dragon Ascent as additional move thanks to donor's typing, but Heatran can't used its Fire/Steel moves unless the donor can learn it too.
Inheritance AAA is not possible.
We can't really used any ability even if we used Ignore Illegal Abilities, unfortunately.
In conclusion, only donors were affected, and not the base.
I'm just showing a small bit of what the metagame looks like at the moment. I've been editing this team a ton and trying out various moves and strategies on various Pokemon and this is what I last came up with. There's not much to say about how to use this team as you'll very quickly find out when playing. It held the highest elo and GXE so I believe it's pretty good. Some of you may want to try it out to see how much higher you could get. Feel free to do whatever you want with this team.
I'm just showing a small bit of what the metagame looks like at the moment. I've been editing this team a ton and trying out various moves and strategies on various Pokemon and this is what I last came up with. There's not much to say about how to use this t-eam as you'll very quickly find out when playing. It currently holds the highest elo and GXE right now so I believe it's pretty good. Some of you may want to try it out to see how much higher you could get. Feel free to do whatever you want with this team.
I wonder why venusaur-Mega comes out with tough claws. I understand that abilities don’t factor into this metagame, but it’s interesting how it changes it from thick fat to tough claws on each instance of your team.
What could you say is a counter to your team? When establishing great metagame threats/standards, this is where we can establish great metagame counters (or at least checks)/anti-metagame standards.
Would you like to say what gave you the most trouble, or hypothetically what would give you the most trouble if someone hasn’t thought of a potential Pokémon / set that stops your team?
For example, I see you have MMX and Venusaur because you can stop Gyarados-Mega and not be weak to Beedrill-Mega, but what about Aerodactyl-Mega which can use Flying moves and Speed ties with Zam for the Substitute set up and then Shell Smash.
Drill Peck is for Beedrill, Venusaur, Exeggutor(s), MMX, as Rock Slide doesn’t hit as many for Super Effective Damage (itself, Beedrill, and the odd Cloyster).
Does Gengar-Mega threaten your team (Hi Jump Kick recoil happens on Protect moves and when opponents switch in a Ghost Type, I.e. if it fails it hurts) and is 4x resistant to your MMX’s unSTABbed Mega Horn.
Glitzy Gleam handles Special Attacks thanks to setting up a light screen to more than negate the Shell Smash Defensive drops, and hurts Poison types like Venusaur and Beedrill-Mega, while Shadow Ball is anti-meta for hurting itself, Zam, and Mewtwo-Megas.
