Aggron: Discussion

[Maxwell]

no pokemon are the same as any others, they're different species with differences all around. They have different stats, typings, and play potential. Rhy =/= Aggr

 

[Keaton]

Aggron is BL/UU because of his 4x weak to Ground and lack of Solid Rock.
Aggron gets KO'ed by a non-stabbed EQ which as you said is the most OU move out there. Although Rhyp has more weaks, Solid Rock allows him to defend himself adequatly despite this.

 

[astrohawke]

Exactly what choice item users is it coming in on ...? The most common CB users are Scyther, Nidoking and the Hitmon's all of which KO it if the player predict an Aggron switch in. And if the teams physical attackers aren't banded or scarfed?

It might fear only 3/17 physical attacks, but unfortunately two of the three it fears are the most common physical attack types in the game ... maybe its just me but I rather like my physical walls to be able to take those attacks.

uh...let's see...it comes in on any choice user that uses any of 14/17 attacking types? If you want examples...let's say any of the normal/flying birds that's not staraptor.

Even if certain pokemon carry a fighting or ground attack for coverage, they still have 3 other moves you will resist that you can come in on...using your example, it can come in fine on scyther if it doesn't use brick break or nidoking if it doesn't EQ. And don't say they just have to predict you and you die because then you've lost to prediction and not the actual pokemon not doing its job.

I also stated that it should be used in conjunction with another physical tank which you seem to have ignored. Even in OU there's no one physical tank that can cover everything. I think having a pokemon that can cover 14 types, it shouldn't be too hard to find another to cover the other 3.

Two of those may be the most common attacking types, but you're quoting general population statistics, not team statistics. On any given team, there will always be more physical attacks that are not fighting or ground than those that are. Hence there is plenty for aggron to come in on.

 

[DMFG]

astrohawke - unfortunately this just isn't good enough compared to Rhyperior.

Rhyperior can come in very happily on T-tar not knowing what the moveset is. Even Boah's Ice Beam isn't a 2HKO most of the time. DDtar gets raped if it tries to DD as Rhyperior comes in. He just doesn't care what set T-tar is running.

Aggron is not the same. You want to bring in Aggron on a Scyther? You're going to look a real fool when you see it SD as you come in. Kangaskhan? Again when you see it Sub you are going to have that sinking feeling as you realise you've got to switch out immediately for fear of FP.

Aggron can't recklessly switch in on unknown movesets simply because of the significant risk that that CBer where you can come in on 3/4 moves might turn out to be not a CBer. When you bring in Aggron on an attack that does 5 damage, how are you going to tell whether it's actually safe to stay in or not?

I mean Rhyperior has to deal with infinitely more varied and versatile pokes in OU and it can still do a good job against most of them. If you were to knock his stats down to UU levels, he'd still be better than Aggron.

Maybe there are more non-fighting/ground attacks than fighting/ground, but that is little consolation when almost every physical sweeper you'd want to bring Aggron in on has the potential of having at least one of them, and almost always has viable movesets that don't involve CB. It doesn't matter how good your prediction is when it turns out they can switch moves and KO you.

EDIT: Keaton, Aggron does not get OHKOd by non-STAB EQs. I mean, you need 479 attack (319 + CB) in order to guarantee an OHKO on max HP/no def Adamant Aggron and it only gets harder from there. That still doesn't mean he likes taking them though.

 

[ODDish]

uh...let's see...it comes in on any choice user that uses any of 14/17 attacking types? If you want examples...let's say any of the normal/flying birds that's not staraptor.

Even if certain pokemon carry a fighting or ground attack for coverage, they still have 3 other moves you will resist that you can come in on...using your example, it can come in fine on scyther if it doesn't use brick break or nidoking if it doesn't EQ. And don't say they just have to predict you and you die because then you've lost to prediction and not the actual pokemon not doing its job.

I also stated that it should be used in conjunction with another physical tank which you seem to have ignored. Even in OU there's no one physical tank that can cover everything. I think having a pokemon that can cover 14 types, it shouldn't be too hard to find another to cover the other 3.

Two of those may be the most common attacking types, but you're quoting general population statistics, not team statistics. On any given team, there will always be more physical attacks that are not fighting or ground than those that are. Hence there is plenty for aggron to come in on.

Ok ... this will be my last post in this thread, and its really just to clarify my original position, which was prompted by your definition of Aggron as a "physical wall".

Yes he can potentially switch in on 14/17 types, I don't dispute this, and I believe I actually said he can physically tank to a certain extent. However for me his double weakness to Ground and Fighting type attacks will always prevent him from being a solid physical wall.

Yes nothing can wall all types arguments - believe it or not I was aware of that, I have played this game - however IMHO a phyisical wall should be able to switch into the majority of that metagames physical sweepers, and unfortunately the greater majority of UU's physical sweepers are capable of OHKOing him because of that weakness.

Granted if the sweeper is banded/scarfed Aggron is guaranteed the first switch-in, after that it becomes a game of prediction ...

However against non-choiced physical attackers Aggron is not nearly as safe bet. Yes it still resist 14/17 types, but most players know to build physical attackers for coverage Rock/Ground, Ghost/Fighting, and its here that that double weakness really hurts it, and in IMHO stops it from being an effective wall.

This takes nothing away from his ability to tank certain physical hits ...

Anyhoo that's me done with this thread.

Afternoon all.

 

[Gmax]

Yes he resists 14/17 types, I don't dispute this

You really should. Fire,Electric,Fighting,Ground,Grass,Water all hit him for neutral or more.

 

[Chou Toshio]

@DT (or whoever)-- has there been a consensus on whether Swellow is UU or not? If it is, than I could see Aggron seen some more play if only for being a 100% swellow counter (unless said swellow decides to run HP Fighting just to spite Aggron).

0 sp.ATK EV Swellow with HP Fighting v. 252hp Aggron: 52.33% - 61.63%

When Swellow can do that much to you with a completely unboosted special attack . . . that's somewhat depressing.

 

[Forsety]

Swellow is UU. It was decided as hard as it can hit after its Guts boost its a very fragile ticking timebomb.