Smogon Forums

Well, maybe that was an exaggeration, but generally speaking I wouldn't use it without backup from something like Mega Diancie.

It just has a really hard time getting off a spin a lot if the time due to uts frailty+LO

I mean I'm just a little confused given that you are advocating non Defog Latias. This kind of implies you are either running another hazard remover or no removal. Another remover would pretty much only be Exca and you seemed to be advocating this Latias outside of just Sand

So yeah the other thing it might mean is no removal which I think is a perfectly viable option and the main reason I see no issue with LO Starmie as ones remover

I don't think it has a hard time getting off a spin; it outspeeds a ton of things. Maybe a spin is a sac but idk how this means it's a bad remover on really offensive teams

Generally speaking I advocate for the set off of sand on more aggressive teams which appreciate the HW support and aren't particularly hazard weak. I guess this is in part because I generally use teams which aren't particularly weak to hazards so there may be a bias here, but I'd use it kinda like I would (kinda bad comparison here, but it illustrates the point kinda well ish maybe) CM+2 attacks Latios in a matchup in which it can't set up in that it is used on the same kinds of teams except alongside another wincon or two as opposed to being the wincon itself. Like, it is easy to fit onto more balls-to-the-wall type builds that aren't quite as extreme as that 6 setup 'mons build but are still aggressive by general offense standards as well as on teams with multiple offensive wincons e.g. "ground spam" (basically chomp+lando with setup moves; idk whether spam is the right term but i'll assume it is 'cause it works like a ground-type darkspam) something similar.

As another clarification relating to the starmie thing. I guess kinda unreliable is a better word than bad here. Its just that I wouldn't personally use it without Magic Bounce backup from Diancie or something to deter hazards. Recover+3 attacks Starmie (no spin) is something that I similarly advocate for once again in part due to the way that I play and due to the added longevity from being able to heal off LO recoil when you force a switch to continue the disgusting pressure that Starme puts on the opponent for longer (I don't generally like making offensive teams which are reliant on hazard clearance (its why I so rarely use things like Talonflame, Zard, Pinsir etc. on offense), although I understand why other people get success with these teams, and it is why why I advocate for things which normally run hazard removal using sets without hazard removal a lot). At the end of the day I have a kinda weird (and probably rather suboptimal) way of playing that people I know just kinda have to get used to when talking with me about the game, and ultimately I'm not an amazing player and would probably agree with any refutes made to my post on the basis that I know who is generally smarter than me with regards to this kind of stuff and who isn't, and also because when I look back at arguments I make they often have holes in them that I don't spot until someone else points them out to me.

O yea very late, but while I'm still thinking about it due to you being in my alerts+Because idt my post in the announcement thread didn't really seem like it did my thoughts about it justice, but v. big gratz on TL bro. I wouldn't have picked anyone else myself, and your presence in your entire time that I've seen you in the community has been really good (which is way more than you can say for me lol). I don't mean to sound like I'm sucking up to you, but I just wanted to say while I was still thinking about it.

lol well I'm FL not TL that's TDK but thanks appreciate it.

Still think the viewpoint here on Starmie is weird since the type of teams you fit offensive LO on really only need to remove hazards like one time. Speed tier makes it reliable enough, sure it doesn't switch into Keldeo well but realistically is pursuit weak anyway

Also I wasn't saying anything in regards to Latias no Defog effectiveness really. I just think it's odd to advocate a no hazard removal approach and then say LO Starmie as your only hazard remover is a bad choice. Other thing is Starmie actually beats most Rockers 1v1 especially with the LO set which is way more threatening to Chomp