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I have only seen like 70% of the first one and about 10% of the second

and about 5 minutes of the third and fourth

You should watch them tbh, haven't seen the fourth but I fell into the trap of thinking the 3rd was super bad because it was rushed but actually I think it could be the best of the trilogy. Especially with the deleted scenes. The first was...experimental, different, and holds up as a pirate movie. But it has so many plot holes with the long-term stuff in the 2nd and 3rd films hahaha

Sure if I can get them. Haven't been able to watch many movies this summer, but now that I've gotten things sorted out I can enjoy the rest of my vacation :[

just have to chime in and say the films are ordered in quality chronologically already

U gonna back that up with some evidence, boy? This is a serious discussion

oh shit i forgot i had to back myself up

well regardless of whether the third movie was rushed or not, the interweaving aspects of the story were very unimpressive compared to the first movie. there's no real underlying connections like the first movie, which had less plot points but made them fit better into the plot line, e.g. Jack wanted revenge on Barbosa and, more importantly, his ship back in the first movie but why doesn't he just flee after making Elizabeth pirate king? even if we're to believe that Jack has had a sudden change of heart and character there's nothing preceding that to show why it happened and nothing after it explaining it. those moments of weird character choices are all over the third movie because the plot is so damned thick that very specific choices need to be made to drive it forward

also the novelties that provided fanciful breakaway from the sound story of the original movie are all that make up the third movie, to the point that you're left with a bunch of different branches that all lead in their own direction and essentially end nowhere. things like the Bretherin Court and Callipso would have been unbelievably out of place in the first film but they can hide pretty well in this one because it's difficult to realise that those elements are really just a distraction from the actual movie, which i suppose is 1) saving jack and 2) the fight at the end.

i could ramble about other problems i have with it but, for the qualms i have with it as a good story, it's pretty epic to watch and a lot of that can be attributed to the amazing score and good budget i think, as well as the emotional pandering near the end with will getting saved and whatnot

Looking at the series as the first movie forwards, then the first movie is hands down the best because it has no "problems". But with the shared universe the 2nd and 3rd movies have, the first clearly has problems. Jack and Barbossa, pirate lords, are debating about the black pearl?? It's a nice movie, and by far has a unique feel.

But if you look at the series as the 3rd backwards, the 1st is the odd one out and in my opinion the least intellectual. It doesn't try to explore new territory or ask questions, but rather is just a pretty good action movie. I wish the series could have been rearranged so that the first movie would have been written as part of the "trilogy" rather than standing on its own because I think that would be a very cool universe. But the result of only 2 movies being written together is that the 2nd movie meanders to save plot for the third while the 3rd loses the meandering and has to cram in the "revealed story". So I definitely agree the 3rd has problems but I think it deserves a lot more credit.

Shame That don't give up, you're doing so well. I enjoy watching these debates since I'm usually in them

agreed, enjoying this so far

I don't think you're supposed to tell him that

oh right!

imo if subsequent movies add extra plot elements which have an effect on how the first movie is perceived, then the elements should be incorporated well enough into the universe to justify their existence. it'd be pretty sad for the lore introduced in a sequel to actually make the original seem worse than it did before, regardless of which movie is better than the other. Jack and Barbosa being so petty makes very little sense from an end-of-trilogy perspective, but of you look at the first movie alone it actually is a grand scale there — just not as recognisably grand as a pirate king.

everyone commenting stuff like "if you're a captain then where's your ship?" is kind of symbolic of Jack's actual issue; that without the ship he has no identity. I think that matters a lot too in the second movie (? I think) where he tells the crew to abandon and says "it's only a ship mate". the second movie impressed me like that, in that it somehow managed to juggle issues of character (Jack trying to come to terms with wanting something beyond the material, Norrington following his ambition to the level of the Pirates he once spat on, etc) along with a shocking multitude of plot setup for the third movie. because honestly, the movies that impress the the most are the surface-level movies that handle only a few simple character issues, but handle them so amazingly well that you just think of it as a natural part of the universe, not a cog in some greater plot machine.

that idea aside, it's entirely possible (from memory) that the pirate lords were actually chosen after Davy Jones rose to prominence again as a means for the pirate population to have any hope of competing against the India-Pacific and Beckett, like the Concert of Europe and "great nations" stopping Napoleon or something, since iirc we don't get given the date in which each lord was appointed?

but in the grand scheme of things I think you're right about the third movie being under appreciated, mainly because it was such a departure from the first movie and didn't have the follow up character development that the second movie was afforded; it had a monumental task in wrapping up every loose end and giving each character a finale that complements their development in the series. given the pressure Im actually quite impressed with the third movie's overall story direction, and I would still recommend it to people who've watched the first/second movies if only for the fact that even in an increasingly complex plot web it manages to keep the movie "epic", if a little less often "fun" than its predecessors.