It's time Kingdra lived up to its potential!

RaikouLover

is a Contributor Alumnus
I figured since Kingdra is falling off of OU for good now, I'd open the floor to discuss his uber potential. Pun intended... I use Kingdra extensively in ubers as my premier sweeper, accompanied by Kyogre as one of the deadliest duos in the game. With infinite rain, and an area there is a limited number of bulky water and grass types, Kingdra thrives and fills quite the niche.

Meet... Uber Kingdra!
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[SET]
name: Uber Kingdra
move 1: Surf
move 2: Draco Meteor
move 3: Dragon Pulse
move 4: Waterfall
item: Life Orb
ability: Swift Swim
nature: Mild
evs: 192 At / 64 Spd / 252 SpA

[SET COMMENTS]

<p> Typical Kingdra set without rain dance, as it is meant to be used in tandem with Kyogre. Between Scarf Kyogre and Kingdra, you should decimate the uber metagame. Since I'm promoting this set, here are the obligatory Damage Calcs against most things you will find in ubers... All the calcs were done by the smogon AMF Calculator http://pokedex-br.info/damage.html and percents done by hand.<p>


Kingdra's Waterfall against Blissey (4HP/252Def, Calm)
58.99-69.59% - Easy 2HKO

Kingdra's Surf against Darkrai(0HP/SpD)
103.56-122.78% - Easy OHKO

Kingdra's Waterfall against same Darkrai
75.09-88.97%

Kingdra's Surf against Deoxys-A(4HP/0SpD)
343.57-404.56% - Ouch

Kingdra's Waterfall against same Deoxys
250.21-295.02%

Kingdra's Surf against Deoxys-D(252HP/176SpD, Calm)
47.37-55.59% - Always 2HKO with SR

Kingdra's Surf against Mixalga (120HP/0SpD)
35.85-42.32%

Kingdra's Draco Meteor against Mixalga (120HP/0SpD)
70.62-83.29%

Kingdra's Surf against Forretress (252HP/160SpD, Relaxed)
110.17-129.66% - Easy OHKO

Kingdra's Dragon Pulse against Garchomp (4HP/0SpD)
109.55-128.65% - Easy OHKO

Kingdra's Draco Meteor against Giritina (252HP/12SpD, Impish)
88.10-103.97% -Always OHKO with SR

Kingdra's Dragon Pulse against same Giritina
57.14-67.00%

Kingdra's Surf against ScarfHeracross (4HP/0SpD)
91.72-108.28% - Likely OHKO, always with SR

Kingdra's Waterfall against same Heracross
81.15-95.70%

Kingdra's Waterfall against Ho-oh(248HP/252SpD, Calm)
101.44-120.19% - Solid OHKO

Kingdra's Surf against ScarfKyogre (4HP/0SpD)
29.33-34.60%

Kingdra's Draco Meteor against ScarfKyogre (4HP/0SpD)
57.18-67.74%

Kingdra's Draco Meteor against TankKyogre (252HP/0SpD)
48.21-57.18%

Kingdra's Draco Meteor against bulky Soul Dew Latias (128HP/0SpD)
76.28-90.00% -Chance at OHKO with SR

Kingdra's Dragon Pulse to same Latias
50.45-59.46%

Kingdra's Draco Meteor against Soul Dew Latios (4HP/0SpD)
98.01-115.89% - Easy OHKO

Kingdra's Dragon Pulse against same Latios
62.25-74.17%

Kingdra's Surf against Lugia (252HP/0SpD)
44.00-51.92% - 2HKO with SR

Kingdra's Draco Meteor against Manaphy (80HP/0SpD)
72.58-85.60% - get some spikes and OHKO

Kingdra's Surf against Metagross (232HP/0SpD)
82.95-98.01% - Solid chance at OHKO

Kingdra's Surf against Mew (252HP/0SpD)
66.09-77.97% - Solid 2HKO

Kingdra's Surf against Mewtwo (4HP/0SpD, neutral)
82.49-97.48% - Likely OHKO, extra layer of spikes will get him

Kingdra's Waterfall against same Mewtwo 59.60-70.6%

Kingdra's Dragon Pulse against Palkia (0HP/0SpD)
89.72-106.54% - Solid OHKO

Kingdra's Surf against Skarmory (252HP/0SpD)
106.88-125.75% - Easy OHKO

Kingdra's Waterfall against Tyranitar (60HP/0Def) in Sandstorm
66.29-79.2% - Weaken him


<p>So there you have it, the damage calcs. These are all the pokemon you will likely find in ubers that are WORTH LEAVING KINGDRA IN ON. I will mention specifics in the counter section. Kingdra is best used in tandem with Lugia for defensive support, and a few layers of spikes or stealth rock. Learn the calcs. Kingdra only gets 11 turns of mayhem, and knowing what can be picked off is most effective. Some of the weaker pokemon have Waterfall, as if you use Draco Meteor, you may be able to pick them off with a waterfall before switching out. Don't use Draco Meteor unless it is needed, otherwise, you cant complete the sweep. So basically, weaken what needs to be weakened and watch this thing clean ubers like its his day job.

<p>Take a look, tank Kyogre is the only thing that can switch in without dying the subsequent turn one way or another. If Scarfogre and Mixalga switch in on a surf, Draco Meteor will finish them the next turn ALWAYS, provided Stealth Rock is in play. If you don't recognize the power of the best "BL" pokemon in the game, try it out!<p>

[EVs]
The EVs listed are sufficient for Kingdra to perform his task. His special attack is maxed for max output damage, and Life Orb really gives him the crucial kick to be deadly in ubers. 64 Speed EVs grants Kingdra 222 Speed, enough to outpace Tyranitar in a Sandstorm, and Max positive nature Deoxys-A in rain. If you feel the pressure from Scarf Palkias, just reallocate the EVs as needed, taking from physical attack. You will have to take quite a bit out to lose the 2HKO on Blissey, so don't be stingy because you don't want to lose him to another dragon!

[Counters]

<p> Kingdra hates status, so a Blissey in ubers packing Thunderwave will spell its demise. Be weary of Thunders, as they can really render him useless with a timely paralysis.

<p> Raquaza will make Kingdra run for its life as it will negate Swift Swim and Outrage Kingdra into the next dimension. Stay away at all costs! Tyranitar can also negate swift swim, but really can't stay in, as waterfall will KO the next turn. Groudon is also a HUGE problem, as it will dry up Kingdra's rampage and can send it flying with a powerful attack.

<p> Arceus cannot switch in, but can eat a Surf, SD up and Extremespeed Kingdra to its death. Bulk-up Dialga with a large Sp Def investment can also eat Kingdra's attacks and send it home with Dragon Claw. As residual Life Orb damage adds up, Deoxys-A can finish it with Extremespeed.<p>
 
Try Hydro pump, can get from 210 to 270 BPower. This makes it almost 280, which is basically a 25% boost. This means if Surf would do 80% or more, Hydro Pump would do 100%, making a 2HKO a 1HKO

( 80 x 1.2 = 96. 96 + 8 (1/2) = 96 + 4 = 100).

If Surf were 44% it would do 55% which makes a 3HKO a 2HKO, including Leftovers.
 
Kingdra is not falling off OU for good. It has an okay chance (I say about 40% chance) of being included in the new OU tier list that's gonna be released soon. It all depends on how much it's been used in March. :)
 
I'm not sure how viable it is in Ubers but on my old Rain Dance team, I ran a similar set with Dragon Dance, Waterfall, Ice Beam, and Draco Meteor. It does serve a different purpose but I found it to be generally more effective because, although it still requires a neutral nature like Hasty, a max attack, Dragon Danced Waterfall KO's just about everything with a Life Orb. Ice Beam takes out the Dragons and Draco Meteor is for the Physical Walls.
 
I've used uber Kingdra before. In fact, I made a similar topic about it once, with most of the damage calculations you did.
 
Posting to brag about how many people have fallen victim to my Damp Rock Rain Dance U-turn Jirachi to Mixdra team.

Kingdra has absolutely no business falling back into the BL tier, as in rain it is arguably the most dangerous Pokemon in OU.

I run this:

Kingdra@Life Orb
~Waterfall
~Hydro Pump
~Ice Beam
~Draco Meteor
nature: Mild
IVs- 29 HP (optimal Life Orb)
EVs- 196 Atk / 124 SpA / 188 Spe

Basically it gets 253 Speed to outspeed gay Deoxys-S, 275 Attack to 2HKO Blissey in Rain on average, and the rest are thrown into Special Attack.

Seriously, you don't need to run a Rain team with 3 or 4 water Pokemon. My "Rain" team only has Jirachi with Rain Dance and only Kingdra as taking direct advantage of Rain.

It is so incredibly dangerous. In fact, only Thunder Wave Blissey or Cresselia truly "Stop" this threat.

Get to using it!!

EDIT: I'm also only speaking about its viability in OU, as it shouldn't even need to be used in Ubers, since a lot of Pokemon do what it does, just significantly better and with the ability to take a lot more punishment than Kingdra.
 
Aldaron: Aside from Jirachi, I've found a lead Electrode to be more efficient but only as a lead. It gets Taunt to prevent status and is much faster. Of course Bronzong is always a nice choice as well but I do like the idea of a Jirachi-Kingdra combo.
 
travisurfer said:
Aldaron: Aside from Jirachi, I've found a lead Electrode to be more efficient but only as a lead. It gets Taunt to prevent status and is much faster. Of course Bronzong is always a nice choice as well but I do like the idea of a Jirachi-Kingdra combo.
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The strange thing is, I used Electrode as well. With a Damp Rock, you're guaranteed to get several turns of Rain Dance if you Rain Dance off the bat. If they don't in fact OHKO Electrode, you can still Explode to get 6 or so turns of Rain Dance.
 
umbarsc said:
The strange thing is, I used Electrode as well. With a Damp Rock, you're guaranteed to get several turns of Rain Dance if you Rain Dance off the bat. If they don't in fact OHKO Electrode, you can still Explode to get 6 or so turns of Rain Dance.
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It did wonders a few months ago when I first started using it in Fall. I'm not sure how well it would do with all the choice users in the current metagame though. I think that would make Aldaron's set much more useful nowadays.
 
I really enjoy the Rain Dance + U-turn strategy, as with Damp Rock's increase to 8 turns for duration, if they switch in a bothersome Pokemon, I can afford to switch to a counter as opposed to not knowing.

Therefore, Jirachi, Celebi, and Zapdos are all viable candidates for supporting Kingdra.

The Electrode is cool, but, unfortunately, Electrode doesn't have that much use in OU, and I prefer to not limit my team to simply succeed with one strategy. Jirachi, Celebi and Zapdos can all Rain Dance without hindering my team, as they all serve other purposes as well.
 
Anything that can take one of those hits and shoot back T-wave is enough to put a stop to it. That includes pokemon who can heal after T-waving, like Celebi, Blissey, Cress, Slowbro and possibly Clefable. Empoleon is an obvious counter. This small list of pokemon probably means how dangerous Kingdra can be. It's just unfortunate that almost every team uses a Cress/Bliss/Celebi.
 
Agreed Mr. Rkatzam...perhaps a Rain Dancing Safe Guarder?

I haven't tried it, but it sounds fine with Damp Rock, since 7 turns of Rain is still cool.

Thunder Wave really has pissed me off to the exact that I have considered not worrying about Blissey, slapping Lum Berry on Kingdra and running 252 SpA Modest to be able to still 2HKO Cresselia and Celebi with Hydro Pump and Ice Beam.

I dunno though, I'll have to battle a little more with it.

Also, for possible Damp Rock Rain Dance Safeguard U-turners, Azelf/Mesprit/Uxie, Jirachi and Celebi all come to mind. Hmm, I'll see how this works :D
 
Originally Posted by Fat Aldaron

EDIT: I'm also only speaking about its viability in OU, as it shouldn't even need to be used in Ubers, since a lot of Pokemon do what it does, just significantly better and with the ability to take a lot more punishment than Kingdra.
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Actually Aldaron, the entire thread is about Kingdra in ubers, as it does what Palkia does, but better because of gamebreaking speed. Palkia needs Choice Scarf to match Kingdra's speed, but then its attacks are limited. OU actually holds Kingdra back, as many people fall victim to this guy in ubers because they don't expect to see Lugia and Deoxys-D fall to Surf, and the rest of the pokemon take the damage I listed. Again, infinite rain means Kingdra has infinite potential, and in OU all the sandstormers hinder it.

For all of you saying "oh this set is in the analysis," note the different EV spread, nature, and strategy along with it. For starters, Mild and max special attack produces a hell of a lot more damage than Naughty.

Also note that pokemon like Celebi, Clefable, Slowbrow, and Empoleon that can cripple or slow down Kingdra are absent from uber play.
 
That does sound interesting. Some kind of combo like this would be very interesting:

Jirachi@Damp Rock
252 HP/76 Def/180 Sp.Def
Impish
-Rain Dance
-Safeguard
-Body Slam
-U-Turn
Body Slam is a nice attack in general for paralysis and primary attack. Of course, Rain Dance and Safeguard are self-explanatory while U-Turn gives Kingdra a nice switchin to sweep. I like Jirachi here because your opponent is most likely going to bring out their Ground/Fire user to take out the little Star meaning Kingdra may get a free chance to setup. EDIT: The one weakness to this set is that the opponent will probably catch on that you're setting something up.

Kingdra@Life Orb
252 Atk/78 Sp.Atk/188 Spd
Lonely
-Dragon Dance
-Waterfall
-Ice Beam
-Draco Meteor
If you get a free turn, Dragon Dance does wonders in boosting Kingdra's somewhat mediocre attack stat. The goal of this set is to sweep with Waterfall as the primary STAB move. Ice Beam is to take out the Dragons and Draco Meteor is there to take out physical walls and, most notably, Vaporeon. I'll have to test out the EV's some more, but its basically max attack, enough speed to take out Deoxys-S as Aldaron already posted, and then the rest are dumped into Sp. Atk for extra damage. If I get a chance, I'll run some calcs on this set.

Of course, that is for a more physical Kingdra which I have had more luck with. Aldaron's special hitter looks promising as well.

So, what do you guys think?
 
That is why I mostly use Waterfall on unsuspecting pokemon as they are most likely to switch Blissey in, only to get 2hko'd. Cress / Celebi are almost impossible to handle, which is why I think it's more important to max out Sp.Atk so you can greatly put a dent in them via Draco Meteor. Safeguard on an exploding Bronzong could possibly work and help at removing those annoying threats out of the way.
 
rkatzam said:
That is why I mostly use Waterfall on unsuspecting pokemon as they are most likely to switch Blissey in, only to get 2hko'd. Cress / Celebi are almost impossible to handle, which is why I think it's more important to max out Sp.Atk so you can greatly put a dent in them via Draco Meteor. Safeguard on an exploding Bronzong could possibly work and help at removing those annoying threats out of the way.
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I do like the idea of an Exploding Bronzong although it does only give you one shot at setting the combo up.
 
rkatzam said:
That is why I mostly use Waterfall on unsuspecting pokemon as they are most likely to switch Blissey in, only to get 2hko'd. Cress / Celebi are almost impossible to handle, which is why I think it's more important to max out Sp.Atk so you can greatly put a dent in them via Draco Meteor. Safeguard on an exploding Bronzong could possibly work and help at removing those annoying threats out of the way.
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I actually ran Dragon Pulse, purely because Vaporeon was so damn annoying, with Wish + Protect is quickly made Draco Meteor worthless.

Actually, if you are planning on having something else set up Rain Dance, the best Mixed Kingdra set would be Surf/Waterfall/Ice Beam/HP Electric. HP Electric does more damage to water-types, excluding water-grounds who take more damage from surf (...barring Quagsire...), than Dragon Pulse. Ice Beam helps a lot against Celebi, who would otherwise be a very solid counter.
 
Yea I thought a Kingdra like this even had a lot of potential in OU, though calculations showed that it would be best with SR support, I didn't like the lonely/naughty set because I thought it comprimised too much spatk just for a sure 2HKO on blissey. And I can definately see its use in ubers, nice calcs ;)
 
Mr_Goodbar said:
Yea I thought a Kingdra like this even had a lot of potential in OU, though calculations showed that it would be best with SR support, I didn't like the lonely/naughty set because I thought it comprimised too much spatk just for a sure 2HKO on blissey. And I can definately see its use in ubers, nice calcs ;)
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The lonely/naughty set is meant to be more Physical in comparison to the more regular special sets. I guess it all depends on preference but the idea behind the physical sets I posted is much like the theory behind Chainchomp.
 
I'd like to note for future reference for everyone who is proposing a new set of some kind, whenever, wherever that you do not need to put the sections [Opinion], [Other Options], [EVs] and [Counters] in there. Those are special HTML formattings for the site, and intended for an entire Pokemon analysis.

In fact, if you want to make your set look as ready for adding it to a Pokemon Analysis, all you need to do is the [SET] and [SET COMMENTS] part. Moves that can be used within this set but aren't listed in the [SET] part should be noted in [SET COMMENTS]. How and why this set should be used should be in [SET COMMENTS].

If there's counters for normal sets your specific set beats, it can be noted in both [SET COMMENTS] and in the Counters section, depending on the Pokemon and situation and all.
 
I'm just wondering where is the Ice Beam, or Blizzard, or Icy Wind? Doesn't Kingdra need an Ice attack to deal with Grass types, and Flying types, and freezing Pokemon? or does Draco Meteor and Dragon Pulse do enough?
 
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