Little Cup Metagame

First Vitamins then you fight low Lv Magikarps, split the EXP between 6 Pokemon and hold the Power Item of your choice. You can get any EV spread this way.

Edit: On the server now if anyone wants a LC battle.

Ah, thank you for answering.

Cyndaquil analysis, corrected once again:

[SET]
name: Eruption
move 1: Eruption
move 2: Flamethrower / Fire Blast
move 3: Hidden Power Grass
move 4: Double Kick
item: Choice Scarf
ability: Blaze
nature: Hasty
evs: 44HP / 24Atk / 200SpA / 236Spe
ivs: 30Atk / 30SpA
[SET COMMENTS]
<p>STAB Eruption coming from Cyndaquil seriously hurts a lot of things in Little Cup. Most of the time, opponents that do not resist Eruption are OHKO'd and even those who resist it can meet the possibility of being 2HKO'd. Thanks to Blaze, Cyndaquil does not become dead weight after taking damage; with Blaze activated, Fire Blast outdamages a full HP Eruption. Flamethrower can be used for more accuracy. </p>

<p>Hidden Power Grass is used to get rid of pesky Water and Rock-types, mostly Kabuto and Omanyte who 4x resist your Fire Moves.</p>

<p>Double Kick lets you OHKO Houndour, who is more than eager to come into a free Flash Fire boost, if you can nail it on the switch and it uses a -Def nature. It also lets you 2HKO Munchlax on most cases.</p>

[SET]
name: Physical Choice
move 1: Flare Blitz
move 2: Double Edge / Quick Attack
move 3: Hidden Power Grass
move 4: Double Kick
item: Choice Band / Choice Scarf
ability: Blaze
nature: Hasty
evs: 44HP / 24Atk / 200SpA / 236Spe
ivs: 30Atk / 30SpA
[SET COMMENTS]
<p>Although using the lesser of Cyndaquil's attacking stats may seem like a bad idea at first, a physical set has a certain surprise factor. Flare Blitz will be your main attacking move, while using Double-Edge as a secondary move. If you feel that the recoil will bring Cyndaquil down too quickly, you can try Quick Attack to catch a Scarf Abra or Focus Sashers off Guard. Quick Attack is best used with Choice Band. Double Kick dents Rock-types who otherwise wall you and Hidden Power Grass is to penetrate the weak Special Defense of Rhyhorn, Kabuto and Omanyte, who can give trouble to Cyndaquil.</p>

[SET]
name: Endure-Salac
move 1: Endure
move 2: Fire Blast
move 3: Quick Attack / Hidden Power Grass
move 4: Reversal
item: Salac Berry
ability: Blaze
nature: Hasty
evs: 44HP / 24Atk / 200SpA / 236Spe
ivs: 30Atk / 30SpA
[SET COMMENTS]
<p>Although Cyndaquil lacks a boosting move to use in conjunction with Endure + Salac, he makes up for it with a nice mixed offensive which will let you have the speed of the Scarf sets without locking yourself into one side of the attacking spectrum. No longer you have to fear Houndour from Pursuiting you to the grave, for you can use him to activate Salac and Reversal the fire dog to death. Fire Blast is a powerful move with Blaze activated, coupled with STAB. Hidden Power Grass is an option for the reasons mentioned on the second set. Quick Attack can be used if you fear a Diglett using Sucker Punch on you and ending the fun.</p>

<p>The downside to this set is that Sandstorm completely ruins it, that Cyndaquil does not get STAB on Reversal and that if the set lacks Quick Attack, Cyndaquil is doomed against priority moves.</p>
<p>Use all 31s for IVs if you forego HP Grass</p>

[Other Options]
<p>On the Eruption set Return can be used over Double Kick to hit the other two Flash Fire users (Ponyta and Vulpix) harder. However you can't OHKO any of those with Return. Do not try Double-Edge as it weakens your Eruption.</p>

<p>Flamethrower could go over Fire Blast on the Endure-Salac set for extra accuricy, but the lost power will hurt.</p>

<p>You could try Focus Sash on Physical Choice, or Specs on Eruption, but both are lesser options.</p>

[EVs]
<p>Although Cyndaquil maxes out Special Attack with 196 EVs, HP Grass requires a 30 IV on both attacking stats; adding 4 more EVs compensates the lost point. 236 Speed EVs give Cyndaquil 25 Speed with Choice Scarf, which is a decent number in Little Cup. The rest are dumped into Attack, giving enough power to OHKO Houndour with Double Kick.</p>
<p>Naive nature could be used to increase your chances of surviving random priority moves and Pursuit from Houndour. However, for more overall survivability use Hasty as it gives 9 Def / 11 SpD; whereas Naive gives 10 Def / 9 SpD.</p>

[Opinion]
<p>Cyndaquil is a rather decent Pokémon in Little Cup, as a STAB Eruption puts a heavy dent in anything not immune or 4x resistant to it. However, it is hampered by his shallow special movepool which makes him rather predictable. His physical movepool is slightly wider, but his Attack isn't anything noteworthy. It also needs adequate team support to function correctly. A spinner and a weather clearer are useful, since Sandstorm, Hail and Stealth Rock take a toll on him and weaken his most powerful move on the Eruption set, and ruin the Reversal variant. Nevertheless, Cyndaquil packs quite a punch and is capable of tearing through a team if no Fire resists are present.</p>

[Counters]
<p>Houndour is the best counter possible: gets boosted by Eruption and Flamethrower, resists Grass and packs Pursuit which can OHKO a fleeing Cyndaquil. Beware of Double Kick and the Reversal set, however. Ponyta and Vulpix function in a similar way, but lack a move which can prevent Cyndaquil from coming back. Munchlax has Thick Fat and can take Eruption repeatedly, and has Earthquake to threaten Cyndaquil; only fearing the physical set which dents Munchlax a lot. Wynaut can trap and kill any Cyndaquil, as even full-power Eruption is a 3HKO. Kabuto and Omanyte can come in on a Fire Move and threaten with STAB Water moves (Kabuto is noteworthy with Aqua Jet) , but are OHKO'd by HP Grass.</p>
<p>Prediction is generally your best friend against Choice sets, which Cyndaquil will almost always be running. Priority moves in general scare away any Cyndaquil, as even his Choice Band Quick Attack is not enough to KO someone at full health.</p>

Looks nice to me, in a few places were you jumped down a line in the middle of a sentence, and these:

evs: 72Atk, 236Spe, 200SpA

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should be evs: 72Atk / 236Spe / 200SpA

30 IV on both attacking stats. Adding 4 more

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the full stop should be a comma I think.

it could also do with another set or two
Like this:

[SET]
name: Physical Choice
move 1: Flare Blitz
move 2: Double Edge / Quick Attack
move 3: Hidden Power Grass
move 4: Double Kick
item: Choice Band / Choice Scarf
ability: Blaze
nature: Naive
evs: 44 HP / 184 Atk / 236 Spe / 40 SpA

and one like

[SET]
name: Endure-Salac
move 1: Endure
move 2: Fire Blast
move 3: Quick Attack / Hidden Power Grass
move 4: Reversal
item: Salac Berry
ability: Blaze
nature: Naive
evs: 44 HP / 184 Atk / 236 Spe / 40 SpA

I'll work on it after I have breakfast. Thanks for the corrections.

EDIT: Done.

Drifloon looks badass.

Watch this space later for Misdreavus. And Tangela, the best Rhyhorn counter ever provided Megahron is predicted or something

[SET]
name: Calm Mind
move 1: Calm Mind
move 2: Shadow Ball
move 3: Hidden Power [Fighting]
move 4: Destiny Bond / Will-o-wisp
item: Wise Glasses / Oran Berry
nature: Timid
evs: 28 HP / 240 SpA / 240 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
<p>A simple boosting set. With 3 immunities Misdreavus can probably find time to Calm Mind once, then sweep with boosted STAB Shadow Ball and Hidden Power Fighting. Will-o-wisp is handy to beat Munchlax with; it both weakens Pursuit and turns HP Fighting into a OHKO. Destiny Bond works with Misdreavus's high Speed, though.</p>

[SET]
name: Choice Specs
move 1: Shadow Ball
move 2: Hidden Power [Fighting]
move 3: Thunderbolt
move 4: Shadow Sneak / Will-o-wisp / Destiny Bold
item: Choice Specs
nature: Modest / Timid
evs: 28 Atk / 240 SAtk / 240 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
<p>There are only 3 viable Special moves in Misdreavus's piss-poor movepool (Misdreavus doesn't get Energy Ball like Mismagius). Thus, Slot 4 is pure filler; Shadow Sneak is to revenge-kill Abra, Will-o-wisp is just a good status move, and Destiny Bond will take something with Mismagius and is always recommended.</p>

(Work in progress)

Working on Totodile and Croagunk.

Right first thing, Naive gives 10 Def/9 Sp.D , while Hasty gives 9 Def/11 Sp.Def. So I think Hasty should be the primary option on all sets, mention Naive and use those numbers to explain why Hasty is better.

For the Evs of the first set 236Spe / 200SpA is good, but only 24 evs is needed to get the same number of points as 72. with the spare 48 evs you can get an extra HP point, this needs 44 evs.

so 44 HP / 24Atk / 236Spe / 200SpA is the best spread.

I think the "Choice Scarf" set should be renamed "Eruption" because scarf is an option on a different set.

Now that you have 3 sets other Options needs fixing up a bit,

[Other Options]
<p>Return can be used over Double Kick to hit harder on the other two Flash Fire users, Ponyta and Vulpix. You can't OHKO any of those with Return, however. Do not try Double-Edge, as it weakens your Eruption.</p>

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Should be replaced by:
<p>On the Eruption set Return can be used over Double Kick to hit the other two Flash Fire users (Ponyta and Vulpix) harder. However you can't OHKO any of those with Return. Do not try Double-Edge as it weakens your Eruption.</p>

<p>Flamethrower could go over Fire Blast on the Endure-Salac set for extra accuricy, but the lost power will hurt.</p>

<p>You could try Focus Sash on Physical Choice, or Specs on Eruption, but both are lesser options.</p>

and maybe update Opinion+Counters with info about the new sets?

Drifloon looks badass.

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I tried it, it fails. it can't get the free turn to set up.

Watch this space later for Misdreavus.

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you doing an analysis? if so great!

Working on Totodile and Croagunk.

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Glad to hear it, I plan to ask Jumpman about putting them up on site soon, and possibly getting our own subforum in C&C for working on LC Analysis.

Totodile analysis:

[SET]
name: Dragon Dance
move 1: Dragon Dance
move 2: Waterfall
move 3: Ice Punch
move 4: Return
item: Life Orb / Focus Sash
ability: Torrent
nature: Jolly
evs: 236Atk / 252Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
<p>Feraligatr's DD set adapted for Little Cup. After a Dragon Dance, Totodile is ready to wreck the opposition with 22 Speed and 24 Attack. If you manage to get two in, it's practically game over. Waterfall is the main offensive move here, gaining STAB and a possible Torrent boost. Ice Punch deals with Grass-types who resist Totodile's STAB. Return is to hit everything at least neutral, as no Pokémon allowed in Little Cup resists the Water/Normal combination. Use Life Orb to hit harder, or Focus Sash to Dragon Dance on the switch and have a chance against a revenge killer.</p>

[SET]
name: Swords Dance
move 1: Swords Dance
move 2: Endure
move 3: Waterfall
move 4: Return
item: Salac Berry
ability: Torrent
nature: Jolly
evs: 236Atk / 252Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
<p>Swords Dance lets you boost your Attack faster at the expense of Speed and your item slot, having to use Salac Berry to attempt a sweep. The basic idea is to Swords Dance on the switch or attacks that will fail to OHKO you and Endure a second hit that would have taken you down.Torrent and Salac Berry will activate and you will have a decent chance of sweeping; however, even with a salac boost your speed is lower than that of most Scarfers and the common priority moves and Focus Sashers Sashers in Little Cup will end your sweep.</p>

[SET]
name: Choice
move 1: Waterfall / Aqua Tail
move 2: Ice Punch
move 3: Brick Break / Crunch
move 4: Double-Edge
item: Choice Band / Choice Scarf
ability: Torrent
nature: Jolly
evs: 236Atk / 252Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
<p>Choice Scarf makes Totodile a decent surprise revenge killer with 22 speed and 16 attack; if you can activate Torrent it will become a serious threat.</p>
<p>Choice Band however leaves you with a neat 24 attack, but a poor 15 speed, meaning it will be forced out quickly.Given good prediction, it can break even the most physically bulky Pokémon; but will be even easier to revenge kill.</p>
<p>Aqua Tail is viable on this set if you want to hit harder every time you have to. Double-Edge is usable on the Choice Bander, since it adds more power than Return; as it is designed to hit hard rather than attempting a sweep</p>

[Other Options]
<p> Some of Totodile's physical options not covered by the sets are: Aerial Ace, Dragon Claw, and Rock Slide. You can replace any of the attacks on the sets for one of these options, but they offer little coverage compared to what has been recommended. Focus Punch gives a more powerful attack than Brick Break, but a misprediction with it will turn into sure doom for Totodile. A surprise Special set could be used, but Totodile's Special Attack is rather low.</p>
<p>You could try replacing Dragon Dance for Swords Dance on the first set for a quicker power boost, but so many things carry Choice Scarf in Little Cup that using Swords Dance with no priority moves or Salac Berry is suicidal</p>

[EVs]
<p>Totodile's spreads look a little odd. This is because, with Jolly, Totodile maxes out Speed with 252 EVs. Attack is maxed out at 236 EVs . You can go Adamant on the Dragon Dance set, but one point of Speed usually is the line between life and death on Little Cup.</p>

[Opinion]
<p>Totodile's stats may be average, but he packs boosting moves in Dragon Dance and Swords Dance which can make the baby alligator a powerful threat if handled correctly.</p>
<p>Totodile has a pretty decent movepool that gives him rather good coverage when attacking, but it's a shame it misses out on Earthquake.</p>

[Counters]
<p>The Choice sets are beaten by prediction. Just sending in a resist will do the trick. The Dragon Dancer is more difficult to counter, as 30 Speed outruns most things in Little Cup, even with a Choice Scarf. Your best bet is to send a faster Scarfer the turn is does his first Dragon Dance, and scare it off or KO it before it can do anything. Beware of Sashers, though. Scarf Gastly with Hypnosis does the job well if it swithes into the first Dragon Dance.</p>
<p>Grass-types do well against Totodile if he lacks Ice Punch. Also, Totodile tends to die to priority moves if it has fallen below 25% of its health, so watch out.</p>
<p>Sandstorm and Hail wear down Totodile and completely mess up the Swords Dance + Endure set.</p>

*****************

Croagunk Analysis

[SET]
name: Nasty Plot (Mixed)
move 1: Nasty Plot
move 2: Vacuum Wave
move 3: Sludge Bomb / Dark Pulse
move 4: Sucker Punch / Cross Chop
item: Focus Sash / Life Orb
ability: Dry Skin
nature: Rash
evs: 108Atk / 236SpA / 198Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
<p>Nasty Plot up and sweep, making use of Croagunk's decent options on both sides of the attacking spectrum. Nasty Plot powers up Vacuum Wave, which destroys fast and frail Pokémon such as Sneasel. Back up Vacuum Wave with either STAB Sludge Bomb or Dark Pulse for more coverage and to make a combination which only a fellow Croagunk will resist. You can use Sucker Punch for yet another priority move which deals with Abra and Gastly which do not take much damage (or anything at all in the case of Gastly) from Vacuum Wave and are faster than you. Cross Chop gives you physical STAB and may surprise those who send a specially oriented bulky Pokémon after seeing Nasty Plot; but limits your type coverage.</p>
<p>The items listed are to give Croagunk more chances to set up, or you can use Life Orb to give an extra kick to your attacks.</p>

[SET]
name: Nasty Plot
move 1: Nasty Plot
move 2: Vacuum Wave
move 3: Sludge Bomb
move 4: Dark Pulse
item: Focus Sash / Life Orb
ability: Dry Skin
nature: Modest
evs: 52HP / 36Def / 236SpA / 198 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
<p>This set will run into big problems due to its low speed, however STAB Vacuum Wave off 32 Sp. Attack (after a NP) will badly hurt many of the Pokemon that can beat your rather average 14 speed.</p>
<p>Dark Pulse gives an almost unresisted combo with Vacuum Wave and Sludge Bomb gives you a strong STAB option, ether can be replaced by something like Shadow Ball (for hitting other Croagunk neutral) or HP Grass (for more type coverage).</p>
<p>Sash gives Croagunk a free NP, or you can use Life Orb to give an extra kick to your attacks</p>
[SET]
name: Anti-Lead
move 1: Fake Out
move 2: Taunt / Snatch
move 3: Pursuit
move 4: Vacuum Wave / Cross Chop
item: Oran Berry / Focus Sash
ability: Dry Skin
nature: Jolly / Hasty
evs: 188Atk / 198 Spe / 28SpA / 46SpD

[SET COMMENTS]
<p>Use this as a lead to stop those annoying SR or Trick Room leads. Fake Out whatever they have, and either Taunt if they are going to set up or Snatch their boosts away. Pursuit is for when you believe their lead is going to flee and want to hit it hard. The fourth slot gives you a STAB move: Vacuum Wave for finishing off weakened foes later in the game or Cross Chop for a powerful physical STAB. Remember to use Hasty with Vacuum Wave.</p>

[SET]
name: SubPunch
move 1: Substitute
move 2: Focus Punch
move 3: Sucker Punch
move 4: Bullet Punch / Rock Slide
item: Leftovers / Oran Berry
ability: Dry Skin
Nature: Adamant
evs: 52HP / 36Def / 188Atk / 198Spe
[SET COMMENTS]
<p> Come in on a Water move or something that Croagunk can force out, and Substitute on the switch. You now get a free STAB Focus Punch, ready to unleash in the face of whatever monster your opponent sent out. Sucker Punch is great on this set, as your opponents will be forced to attack to break your Sub, almost eliminating prediction wars when using Sucker Punch. The last slot gives you extra coverage or a more reliable priority attack.</p>

[SET]
name: Physical Choice
move 1: Cross Chop
move 2: Sucker Punch
move 3: Bullet Punch
move 4: Rock Slide / X-Scissor
item: Choice Band / Choice Scarf
ability: Dry Skin
Nature: Adamant / Jolly
evs: 76HP / 188Atk / 198Spe
[SET COMMENTS]
<p> In a metagame as fast-paced and offensive as Little Cup, it's always a good idea to have a hard-hitter or a fast attacker at your disposal. Croagunk can accomplish this by using a choice item and his respectable Attack. Cross Chop as the main attack, Sucker Punch to cover Ghosts. Earthquake and Rock Slide/X-Scissor provide extra type coverage. As with any Choice Bander, Croagunk has to predict for this set to kill something .</p>

[Other Options]
<p> On the physical side, Poison Jab was left out due to Poison having poor coverage, and having better avaliable options. Other physical options include Brick Break and Bullet Punch. However, these are lesser options on any set.</p>
<p> On the SubPunch set, you could replace Sucker Punch for Cross Chop, to have a more reliable Fighting Move. Swapping Sucker Punch for Dark Pulse gives you a more reliable attack against Gastly, who can just stall Sucker Punch's PP while wasting Hypnosis on you.</p>
<p>On any special set, any Hidden Power of your choice can be used to give extra coverage to the set. Grass one-hits Rhyhorn, Kabuto and Omanyte. Ground or Water cover Fire-types who would like to exploit Croagunk's Dry Skin. It is noteworthy that using HP Water in a Rain Dance team will get a boosted attack and provide Croagunk with steady recovery, which can nullify the effects of Life Orb.</p>

[EVs]
<p>Croagunk has the right stat numbers in the right places for the Level 5 metagame. Having a 61 in both attacking stats means he has to invest fewer EVs than other mixed sweepers, giving room for some more Speed in the process. On the Nasty Plot mixed set, the EVs given maximize Special Attack and Speed and leave enough room to earn two extra Attack points. On all the other sets, Speed and the attacking stat are prioritized, leaving room for an HP point and a point in either defense (provided it's not the one affected by the nature). </p>

[Opinion]
<p> Croagunk would be normally expected to use mainly physical attacks just like its evolution, Toxicroak. However, having the same base stat in Attack and Special Attack, and having access to Nasty Plot but not Swords Dance makes Croagunk function more efficiently as a special or mixed sweeper. Croagunk is capable of hitting hard on either side of the attacking spectrum; while at the same time having useful resistances to help it come into the fight. Given time to set up, Croagunk can devastate a team and should not be underrated. Not many things can resist a Nasty Plotted attack from Croagunk.</p>

[Counters]
<p>Gastly is a really good counter. It can come in on anything Croagunk has to offer (barring Dark Pulse) and threaten it. Even if Croagunk packs Sucker Punch, Gastly can just put Croagunk to sleep with Hypnosis.
If Sleep Clause has been activated, Gastly can start a mindgame in order to stall Sucker Punch's 8 PP away. Misdreavus is on the same boat as Gastly; it against Croagunk (albeit not resisting Sludge Bomb) and can set up Calm Minds on it.</p>
<p>Koffing takes little from Croagunk's STAB attacks, is neutral to Dark and has Will-o-Wisp and Flamethrower to counter the poisonous frog.</p>

Rattata Analysis

[SET]
name: Guts
move 1: Protect
move 2: Facade
move 3: Sucker Punch
move 4: U-Turn
item: Flame Orb
ability: Guts
nature: Jolly / Hasty
evs: 36 HP / 228 Atk / 182 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
<p>A set that makes use of Rattata's only useful ability: Guts. Protect to stay safe from attacks and undesired status conditions while Flame Orb burns you and activates Guts.
Now you have at your disposal a STAB 140 power move at 22 Attack, coupled with decent Speed and a priority move in Sucker Punch to hit those Ghosts that think they are safe from your Facade.</p>
<p>The last move is to hit the opponent when he brings something Rattata cannot hurt, or to scout switches.</p>

[SET]
name: Choice
move 1: Return
move 2: Sucker Punch
move 3: U-Turn
move 4: Quick Attack / Iron Tail
item: Choice Band / Choice Scarf
ability: Guts
nature: Jolly / Adamant
evs: 36HP / 228Atk / 182Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
<p>Classic hit and run set. Return will be used as your main offense, Sucker Punch for those Ghost-types, U-Turn for scouting switches and a fourth move up for choosing: Quick Attack may help you get the first hit on fast but frail opponents; while Iron Tail is your best attack against Onix and friends. Try to switch this in on a status move (except Sleep) to achieve its maximum potential.</p>

[SET]
name: Reversal
move 1: Endure
move 2: Reversal
move 3: Return / Quick Attack
move 3: Crunch / Sucker Punch
item: Salac Berry
ability: Guts
nature: Jolly
evs: 36HP / 228Atk / 182Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
<p>Endure whatever hit comes at you, activating Salac Berry on the process and powering up Reversal to the maximum to attempt a sweep. Rattata misses on STAB Reversal and is vulnerable to Sandstorm. Your STAB attack depends on what do you want: a priority attack or a move slightly weaker than full-power Reversal to hit Psychic and Bug-types. Crunch is for Ghosts, but Sucker Punch can help against Scarfed ones.</p>

[Other Options]
<p>Rattata is mere set-up fodder for the likes of Rhyhorn and Cranidos, who can just Rock Polish while you switch or 2-3HKO with Facade and then proceed to OHKO you and sweep your team. To correct this problem, there is one solution: Hidden Power Grass. It can go over U-Turn on the first set to nab a surprise KO on Onix, Rhyhorn, Geodude, Kabuto, Omanyte and 2HKO Cranidos, awful as Rattata's Special Attack is, sitting at Base 25. All those Pokémon completely wall Rattata and therefore should not be expecting a special attack from it, opening up the possibility of a sweep if that was their only Rattata counter. Grass Knot has more power on Onx and Rhyhorn, but HP Grass is more reliable, as everyone else on the list is considerably lighter.</p>

<p>Crunch and Pursuit can be used also over U-Turn on the first set and over Sucker Punch on the rest to have a reliable Ghost-killer incase they decide to stall Sucker Punch out of PP. Flame Wheel could help against Grass-types but is generally an inferior option, unless you like seeing your Rattata on fire. Focus Sash + Counter can be used to score a surprise KO.</p>

[EVs]
<p>The EVs listed give Rattata the maximum Speed and Attack possible. The remaining EVs give 1 HP point. If and only if you are planning to use HP Grass, then use a Hasty nature and change your IVs to 30Atk / 30SpA and you EV spread to 232Atk / 80SpA / 180Spe. The extra 4 EVs in Attack are to compensate for the lost point from the IVs. 80 Special Attack gives you the point necessary to score an OHKO on the Pokémon mentioned above, barring Sandstorm. Speed continues at maximum.</p>

[Opinion]
<p>Average stats at best, but having the ability to attack with an automatic +1 boost in Attack with a STAB 140 power move is a scary prospect for anything slower than Rattata. Ghosts immune to its Facade have to be careful treading around the purple rat, as a Sucker Punch to the face is going to hurt.</p>
<p>Use Rattata if you feel like running a high-risk, high-reward strategy. Flame Orb will lower its time on the field, and leave it vulnerable to almost any priority move, but the payoff can be amazing. It's a shame Rattata misses Raticate's Swords Dance, which could be deadly in combination with Guts.</p>

[Counters]
<p>Gastly and Misdreavus can come in on anything the standard Rattata offers and can just stall Sucker Punch out of PP, or in the case of Misdreavus, set up for a sweep. Rock-types in general wall Rattata, provided it does not carry a surprise HP Grass. Fighting-types faster than Rattata also spell its doom, as Sucker Punch will do little to them and the rodent will have to flee or die.</p>

ok then, first Totodile:

After two Dragon Dances, Totodile is ready to wreck the opposition with 30 Speed and 32 Attack.

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No decent LC player will EVER give you 2 free turns, even 1 is rare but possible. Give stats after 1 DD instead.

Ice Punch and the third move are for extra type coverage. Brick Break covers Ice and Dark-types while Crunch covers those Ghosts and Psychics such as Abra and Gastly, provided you have enough Dragon Dances under your belt. Return is to hit everything at least neutral, as no Pokémon allowed in Little Cup resists the Water/Normal combination.

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I think you should remove Crunch as Ghosts and Psychics will be hit hard by Waterfall. Put it and BB in set comments and Return on the main set I think.

Oran Berry/ Lum Berry/ Focus Sash

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Oran is bad as you want low health to get Torrent, Lum is far less useful than Sash as status is kinda rare in LC (except for a bit of sleep, but they almost all outspeed you or are not 2KOd).

The basic idea is to Swords Dance on the switch and Endure whatever comes at you,

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maybe change to
The basic idea is to Swords Dance on the switch or attacks that will fail to 1KO you and Endure a hit that would KO you, Torrent and Salac will activate and you will have a decent chance of sweeping, however even with a salac boost your speed is less than most Scarfers and the common Priorty moves and Sashers In Little Cup will end your sweep.

the Choice set would be better with this IMO:
move 1: Waterfall / Aqua Tail
move 2: Ice Punch
move 3: Crunch / Brick Break
move 4: Double-Edge

DE's 120 base power is nicer than 80 that hits 2 types SE.

<p>Basic Hit-and-Run set. Send Totodile against something, predict, and hit hard. Or, use Choice Scarf and try to sweep with a move. You decide: surprise or power. Aqua Tail is viable on this set if you want to hit harder every time you have to. Double-Edge is usable on the Choice Bander, since it adds more power than Return; as it is designed to hit hard rather than attempting a sweep</p>

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mm
lemme rewrite this
<p>Choice Scarf makes Totodile a decent revenge killer with 22 speed and 16 attack, if you can activate Torrent it will become a serious threat.</p>
<p>Band however leaves you with a tidy 24 attack, but a poor 15 speed it can break even the strongest Phy. Walls but will be easy to revenge kill.</p>
<p>Aqua Tail is viable on this set if you want to hit harder every time you have to. Double-Edge is usable on the Choice Bander, since it adds more power than Return; as it is designed to hit hard rather than attempting a sweep</p>

Counter and Focus Punch could go in other Options.

For Croagunk:

Merge the Nasty Plot sets into this:

name: Nasty Plot
move 1: Nasty Plot
move 2: Vacuum Wave
move 3: Sludge Bomb
move 4: Dark Pulse
item: Focus Sash / Life Orb
ability: Dry Skin
nature: Modest
evs: 52HP / 36Def / 236SpA / 198 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
<p>Nasty Plot up and try to sweep, making use of Croagunk's not too shabby base 61 Sp. Attack. This set will run into big problems due to its low speed, however STAB Vacuum Wave off 32 Sp. Attack (after a NP) will badly hurt many of the Pokemon that can beat your rather bad 14 speed.</p>
<p>Dark Pulse gives an unresisted combo with Vacuum Wave and Sludge Bomb gives you a strong STAB option, ether can be replaced by something like Shadow Ball or HP Grass. Sucker Punch > Dark Pulse would help against fast Ghosts, if you use it move any spare EVs to attack and change to Rash nature</p>
<p>Sash gives Croagunk a free NP, or you can use Life Orb to give an extra kick to your attacks</p>

Use this as a lead.

Click to expand...

change to:
Use this as a lead to stop those annoying SR or Trick Room leads.

For Subpunch EQ is not much use, Fight and Ground cover many of the same types. STAB Poison Jab or Bullet Punch would be better IMO.

Bullet Punch should be an option on Choice.

I will look at the rest of Croagunk later

recently there has only been 2 pokes banned, scyther and yanma, whatever happened to the other banned pokes. i have fought sneasel and find it ridiculous (SD ice shard is OHKO to nearly everything)

Okay. I agree on the Totodile corrections. Done.

For Croagunk, I feel that the two Nasty Plot sets are different enough to warrant a separate set; since they not only differ in one or two attacks, but on the nature and are EVd very differently, and I feel that it would be too complicated and long to explain on the set comments. I added everything else.

Oh, and by the way: someone yesterday on Shoddy told me that if we could consider allowing Pokémon such as Farfetch'd and Castform due to their low stats but ineligibility to LC due to their evolutionary status. Personally I'm against it, since I feel it would deprive the environment the feeling of being the "baby metagame" and that it would turn LC into NU with OU's first forms at level 5. Plus, we would need to agree on a kind of rule for allowing these Pokémon, such as "No unevolvable Pokémon with a Base Stat of X or higher may enter", and that would be a tad too complicated and would only increase the hassle for the Little Cup rules.

Alright then, lets fix the Sp. set:

name: Nasty Plot
move 1: Nasty Plot
move 2: Vacuum Wave
move 3: Sludge Bomb
move 4: Dark Pulse
item: Focus Sash / Life Orb
ability: Dry Skin
nature: Modest
evs: 52HP / 36Def / 236SpA / 198 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
<p>This set will run into big problems due to its low speed, however STAB Vacuum Wave off 32 Sp. Attack (after a NP) will badly hurt many of the Pokemon that can beat your rather bad 14 speed.</p>
<p>Dark Pulse gives an unresisted combo with Vacuum Wave and Sludge Bomb gives you a strong STAB option, ether can be replaced by something like Shadow Ball or HP Grass.</p>
<p>Sash gives Croagunk a free NP, or you can use Life Orb to give an extra kick to your attacks</p>

and remove Lum from mixed.

Ok now Rattata:

Guts set looks ok, maybe a mention of how much attack it has with Guts? And is Quick Attack an option over U-Turn?

For Choice say how much speed and attack it gets with the different Choice Items, and put Sucker Punch as the primary Dark attack with the others in set comments.

Reversal is good except this looks a bit odd to me

This may not be an effective set depending on how popular Hippopotas is at the moment.

Click to expand...

from Other Options it looks like the defensive rock types will be able to setup on Rat, but with a STAB Guts 140 BP moves it will probably 2-3 KO them all, or even 1KO Rampados.

Grass Knot is better than HP Grass on pokemon with >50.1 weight, put in other options.

And I would like to start a new thread for LC so that I can put links to all the important stuff in the OP, and have the tier list+speed Tier+more up to date there.
Is this ok with everyone?

Porygon



[SET]
name: Special Trick Room Sweeper
move 1: Trick Room
move 2: Shadow Ball
move 3: Ice Beam
move 4:Thunderbolt
item: Oran Berry / Focus Sash
ability: Download
nature: Quiet
evs: 116 Def / 236 SpA / 156 SpD
ivs: 0 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
<p>With 8 Speed not much will go before this under Trick Room, and if it gets an Download boost not much can stand in the way of its awesome 28 Sp. Attack. This can sweep teams without a Sp. wall if you get Trick Room going, and with 23/15/16 Defenses its not that hard.</p>
<p>Oran gives you a second chance to set up Trick Room against weaker attacks, while Focus Sash Guarantees your first set-up even on the strongest opponents as Trick Room will always go last and you will most likely take a hit if your opponent doesn't switch.</p>

[SET]
name: Choice Specs
move 1: Ice Beam
move 2: Thunderbolt
move 3: HP Fighting / Ground
move 4: Shadow Ball
item: Choice Specs
ability: Download
nature: Modest
evs: 116 Def / 236 SpA / 156 SpD

[SET COMMENTS]
<p>Even without a STAB attack this thing can be a major threat due to its brilliant Type coverage and shear power (Specs+Download=42 Sp.A, even without download it still hits 28) HP Fighting can take out those Munchlax who seek to slow you down, while Ground beats down the BoltBeam resistors.</p>
<p>No evs have been invested in Speed as the max without a nature boost is 13, not outspeeding anything worthwhile so defensive Evs are more useful.</p>

<p>Scarf could work, but even at max speed and a + Nature it only reaches 21 speed, a number considered mediocre by Choice Scarf standards, so Specs is a better option. If you do use Scarf max out speed and use a Timid nature.</p>


[SET]
name: Mixed Trick Room Sweeper
move 1: Trick Room
move 2: Thunderbolt
move 3: Return
move 4: Ice Beam
item: Life Orb / Focus sash
ability: Download
nature: Quiet
evs: 196 Att / 36 Def / 236 SpA
ivs: 0 spe

[SET COMMENTS]
<p>This set really takes advantage of Download, and can take out many of the Pokemon that stop the pure Sp. Sweeper. Shadow Ball is an Option over Thunderbolt or Ice Beam for those Ghosts.</p>

[Other Options]
<p>Porygon has a few options not mentioned on any of the sets, Hidden Power Fire/Fighting/Ground, Psychic, and Charge Beam can all work, </p>
<p>If you are desperate for STAB your only special option is Hyper Beam, which, even though its side effect is horrible has massive power.</p>
<p>Porygon's other ability; Trace has some use for revenge trapping trappers like Diglett, Magnemite and Trapinch, and for using an opponents Flash Fire/Volt Absorb/Water Absorb to get a easy switch in and possibly free healing off their STAB attacks, however the ~50% chance of a Sp. attack boost is generally preferable as on most sets it opens up a chance to sweep. If your team has problems with those Pokemon then Trace can work very well.</p>

[Illegal Moves]
<p>Sadly Tri Attack is illegal at Lv. 5, but it is worth noting if you play Little Cup Lv. 100 (it learns it at Lv. 51) or don't use the Lv. 5 moveset rule, the same goes for Agility (learnt at Lv. 12) which would be a nice alternative to Trick Room, Recover (learnt at Lv. 18) which could let a defensive set become viable, Magic Coat (learnt at Lv. 56) that could reflect back sleep and other status moves. Other notable moves that are not leagal at Lv. 5 are: Discharge, Signal Beam, Magnet Rise and Recycle.</p>

[EVs]
<p>236 maxes out Porygon's Sp. Attack, leftover evs are put into Defenses. For Trick Room sets you want to have a 0 speed IV and a - Nature. For the Mixed sweeper 196 maxes out Attack.</p>

[Opinion]
<p>Decent stats were it needs them, a excellent ability, great movepool and some degree of unpredictability; Porygon would have the makings of a Little Cup standard if it could just use Tri Attack, but even without STAB it is a serious threat. Its other problem is its speed, it needs to set up Trick Room to be much use at sweeping, but once its set up it can be hard to stop it.</p>

[Counters]
<p>Munchlax or Bronzor can stop it (and outspeed in Trick Room) if Download did not boost Sp. attack. Mixed versions can beat Munchlax.</p>
<p>Trapinch can revenge trap it under Trick Room. Bulky fighting types (or bulky Pokemon in general who don't have a weakness to Ice/Electric/Ghost and have a really strong attack) can often come in while TR is up take a neutral attack and KO with a STAB move but they tend to be 2KO'd so they can't switch in.</p>
<p>If you don't have any of these just hit it as hard as you can as it sets up, and try to use some strong priority moves on it or stall out Trick Room by clever switching.</p>

and if it gets an adaptability boost

Click to expand...

I think you mean Download there

<p>Oran gives you a second chance to setup TR against weaker attacks, while Sash Guarantees your first set-up.</p>

Click to expand...

It would look better like this:
<p>Oran gives you a second chance to setup TR against weaker attacks, while Sash Guarantees your first set-up, as Trick Room will always go last and you will most likely take a hit if the opponent doesn't switch.</p>

<p>Kinda like the TR sweeper the aim is to use 1 turn of setup to outspeed most things, however you sacrifice defensive EVs and team support for the fact that the boost will not go away after 5 turns. Agility gives it 28 Speed, and with Download it can hit 27 Sp. Attack, so it has a decent chance of sweeping.</p>

Click to expand...

I'd rephrase that as:
<p>Similarly to the Trick Room sweeper, the aim is to use one turn of set-up to outspeed most things; however, you sacrifice defensive EVs and team support for the advantage that the boost will not go away after 5 turns. After one Agility, Porygon reaches 28 Speed, and with a possible Download boost, it can hit 27 Sp. Attack, letting it have a decent chance of sweeping.</p>

<p>Scarf could work, but even with max speed it reaches 21-19 speed (depending on the nature) so Specs is better.</p>

Click to expand...

I'd change to:
<p>Scarf could work, but even at max speed it only reaches 21-19 speed (depending on the nature), a number considered mediocre by Choice Scarf standards, so Specs is a better option.</p>

Overall I think the sets are really good, just some spelling/grammar errors here and there. And I think it would look more professional if you spelled out all the abbreviations (SpA, TR, LC, etc.)

Nice analysis :D

And agree on new thread, we could include all the analyses up until now and the updated rules.

Fixed up all of those, thanks for the help.

I have also fixed the stat thing at the start.

I will post the new thread today or tomorrow.

I'd suggest to name the new thread "Little Cup Metagame formal discussion", to finally settle on what is going to be banned, to compile the analyses up until now, and possibly to make a rough draft of possible tiers and whatnot.

I was thinking of "Little Cup Metagame Development" as the title, but ether works.

Can you post your EV guide there once I make the thread?

Okay, if it's posted after I finish eating, I will.