Reposting because I added alot and it got pushed back a page.
Okay, let's pretend Choice Scarf doesn't exist. Aerodactyl is faster than the entire game except for Deoxys E, has plenty of coverage, and a decent Attack stat that's even better than Deoxys-E. Is Aerodactyl broken? My Metagross / Salamence / Starmie / Heatran / Exeggutor / Heracross team is designed to straight up sweep. Aerodactyl 2HKO's the entire team with EQ / Stone Edge / Crunch / Aerial Ace. Is he Uber?
"Hey let's Compare Pokemon with Theorymon!" Don't even try - comparing Pokemon and creating artificial situations like this isn't even the point, especially since Aerodactyl wishes it had the coverage and power of Deoxys E.
DO NOT make these kinds of flawed arguments.
Now I know that example looks incredibly pointless and even worse than theorymon, but think about it. Is Aerodactyl a complete stop to this full sweeping team? Not really. Metagross has Meteor Mash, Starmie has Surf, Heatran might have HP Something, Heracross hits it neutral and KO's it. But it still has "ample" opportunity to switch in on stuff, like Metagross Earthquake, Heatran Earth Power / Flamethrower if it's lucky... so is in this case Aerodactyl Uber for breaking teams with a bunch of sweepers since he's faster and has a good movepool? If you're sane, you'd say no. He wasn't Uber in RSE and if you throw HP Ghost into slot 3 and your favorite Fire type in Team Slot 4 the same arguments can be made.
Aerodactyl also has a speed Tie with Jolteon and friends, and is outsped by lol Electrode and Ninjask. Your analogy fails. Aerodactyl's attacks other than Stone Edge and EQ have shit BP and has a tendency to miss. DO NOT compare Pokemon like this ever again.
I'll argue "no". Why? Because there are a lot of threats teams of many kinds have to account for. Crush King stops stall teams unprepared for him. Is Crush King Uber because the stall team has to account for Crush King? No. If you think "Yes" is the answer, you'll be up all night talking about how xyz is so broken.
You can't possibly argue that what CrushKing does to stall teams is what Deoxys E does to offensive teams in it's full effect and without taking everything into consideration. Comparing what something does to a stall team and what something else does to an offensive team is just a pure fallacy since you offer nothing to back it up other than the simplified "IT STOPS THEM IF THEY'RE UNPREPARED"
This isn't a valid arguement either. If a team no longer works, you either adapt or lose. D-S doesn't stop you from playing an offensive sweeper team, it stops you from playing a 6 pokemon sweeper team, there is a difference.
How is it not? It's a team based on resistances. Dugtrio has no place in it.
When I use Deoxys E, I pretty much scout and make sure I take down the counters to it so I can get a clean sweep later. Sure, you can argue this happens for "any pokemon" but once the only steel type in the Pokemon is down it becomes horrendously easy to sweep the rest of an offensive team with Deoxys E once you weaken the "counters" enough. This is why I don't think it's a valid argument, and why my argument, I feel is valid.
1. If we are deciding about Deoxys, and the evidence he is using specifically states that Wobbufet is an integral part of his team, it most certainly taints the conclusions he found. I have read every word of these posts, so do not insult me again by saying I have not.
And now, in June, I've managed to take my "imperfectluck" name to ladder's #1 spot with this team again. It is simply a team that performs like no other I've ever made in terms of success rate, simply because Wobbuffet is great against stallers and Deoxys-E against offense, forming a duo that can simply destroy most team strategies out there with little effort. Deoxys-E is by and large the single best cleaner in the game, in my opinion, and the only Pokemon that is able to fulfill this role.
Read. IPL's post is to say that Deoxys E is simply overpowering against Offensive teams.
2. I have not said "just use Dugtrio". I have said that he is an option, and please also remember that nobody has yet given me an example of a team with synergy, that is fast-paced offensive, and deoxys weak. All the teams mentioned thus far with that style of play have had a counter to deoxys. Do you think this is just by chance? I think it is because many pokes can counter deoxys, and you are ignoring them. You forget how weak its neutral hits are, and just how many fast sweepers can actually take them.
Um, if you actually read the posts, IggyBot posted his team a while back. Are you going to just say "it lacks synergy"? And are you going to say "it has a counter to deoxys" when you haven't even played with the team and basing your argument off theorymon?
His neutral hits still hit pretty well, just not against bulky things. How many fast sweepers are going to hit Deoxys back when Deoxys E can hit it for a super effective hit anyway? Name me a fast sweeper that doesn't get destroyed by Deoxys E, please.
3. Please do not call me a troll simply because I oppose your side of the argument and ask for evidence. Every one of these posts is on topic, and I still have not received any hard evidence. I am the only one who has presented evidence at all, in the usage statistics that are virtually unchanged since Deo-E was introduced. If its so good, why isn't it highe rup on the list?
I am calling you a troll because you are discrediting evidence that doesn't support your argument and implying certain users are terrible battlers when they are probably one of the best battlers around here.
I have posted many times about the flaws of usage statistics and I'm not going to bother repeating myself. You can go look it up and see how usage stats don't mean everything.
4. The mamo comparison was perfectly reasonable, much more-so than the rampant Blissey one. If your team is ripped apart by one poke, is that poke automatically Uber? That is essentially what you are saying.
What style of play does Mamoswine destroy, pray tell? This isn't a case of "My team is swept by infernape, it is uber", it is more about "Deoxys E is a bit TOO effective against offensive styled teams based on resistances, it is uber". Sure, you can run a dedicated counter to it on your offensive team but considering how by the time Deoxys E shows up the counter is likely weakened to the point where Deoxys E can clean through it, this is the reason why people are saying it destroys offensive style teams too much. Just running a counter isn't enough considering Deoxys E's unique style of usage. This is of course, subjective and that's why we're voting in the first place.
You can change your team, lets say you can add Metagross, but it doesnt really matter since Deoxys E is in the end, a late game sweeper. I would have swept a team after being down 5-1 and lost 2-1 only because of sand veil, which shows what Deoxys can do once it takes down it's counter (which I took out with Deoxys, oh the irony?). The argument is that You can't really run a pure resistance based offensive team anymore without it being an offensive team anymore considering the total number of fast offensive sweeping teams that are deoxys counters either overlap in typing or they can't really sweep. You can't honestly compare this to stall without showing that you really do not know what you're talking about when it comes to playing style. Teams do adjust for specsmence and scarfchomp considering they don't really dominate a playing style
In the end all you guys are doing is jumping into the arguments without understanding everything that is going on. I do agree that people have done a bad job presenting the arguments but there is a reason why your arguments don't hold ground. Yes, this is subjective but none of your arguments even get close to the point of the argument in the first place.
DO NOT respond to anything above the last 3 paragraphs, they are just little points and they add nothing to the argument. They will be deleted for being off topic.
