Sorting Through the Creative Moveset Thread

Ninetales - Grudge


Ninetales @ Salac berry
Ability: Flash Fire
Evs: 252 speed, 252 sp.attack
Nature: Timid
- Substitute
- Will-o-Wisp / Flamethrower
- Hypnosis
- Grudge

This is an interesting set that is based on the premise that many pokemon rely on one attack to counter certain threats. The idea is to grudge that attack so that the pokemon is unable to counter the threat and the threat can manhandle the enemy team. The idea is to cripple something with hypnosis, which starts up the masquerade of a hypnoplotter, or maybe some sort of support set. Will-o-Wisp provides more support, helping ninetales to neuter even more pokemon before dying. So anyways, should something like blissey come in trying to seismic toss you to death, you keep subbing down until she can kill you with one seismic toss, then you grudge right before she kills you. Suddenly, she has no more seismic tosses and is set up fodder for raikou, a pokemon that is usually scared of her. But the useability of grudge ninetales doesn't end there. she can end a pokemon's sweep by taking away their main more. Or, if you're really crazy, you can use this to start some sort of baton passing chain on a mean looked pokemon.

Groudon - Rock Polish


Groudon @ Life Orb
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 192 Hp / 252 Atk / 8 Def / 56 Speed.

Nature: Adamant
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- Fire-Punch/Dragon Claw
- Rock Polish


Constructed, from the Analysis's, Other options. Works wonders with SR support. The EVs, give 389 Hp, 438 Attack, and 230 Speed, with the rest dumped in defense. 389 Hp is a life orb number, giving groudon the extra hit before he goes down. 230 Speed allows groudon to outspeed modest scarfogre and anything slower after a rock polish. The rest is dumped in Def, to mitigate damage from Extremespeed-ers like Arceus and Rayquaza. Earthquake is a given, with STAB. Stone Edge can move large dents in Lugia and covers alot that EQ doesn't. The choice between Fire Punch and Dragon Claw is difficult. Dragon Claw, disallows a Latias switch-in, KOing it with SR, whereas fire punch will stop Forry and Skarm from ruining the party.

Lucario - Substitute Calm Mind

Lucario @ Salac Berry / Leftovers
Ability: Inner Focus
Evs: 252 SpA, 252 Spe
Nature: Timid
- Substitute
- Calm Mind
- Shadow Ball / Hidden Power Ice
- Aura Sphere

An interesting Lucario set that is slightly different from the norm. With its impressive Special Attack and the ability to hit Blissey very hard with Aura Sphere, Lucario makes a decent special attacker. While this guy cannot get really good type coverage the way specsluke can, it can readily sweep by raising its Special Attack to enormous levels. Leftovers keeps Lucario around a bit longer, and with Calm Mind and those resistances, he can take lots of special hits, while Salac Berry raises his speed in an attempt to outspeed everything and kill it after a few Calm Minds (note that if Salac Berry is used an HP IV of 30 is preferred, to activate the Salac Berry after 3 Substitutes). The choice between Hidden Power Ice and Shadow Ball depends on whether you want to hit everything for neutral or hit Gliscor and other bulky fliers for supereffective damage. Aura sphere gets STAB and is insanely powerful after a few Calm Minds. After two Calm Minds, it can 2HKO Blissey if she hasn't invested EVs in special defense. Timid is the preferred nature to get the leg up on Adamant sdlukes and Pokemon that are geared to hit 280 speed, since the only Pokemon that you hit significantly harder with the power boost is Blissey, 2HKOing her after one Calm Mind if she doesn't invest in Special Defense. But since she usually does now, it's not of much worth.

Banette - Trick Room


Banette @ Focus Sash
Ability: Insomnia
Evs: 252 Atk/252 Hp/ 4 Def
Nature: Brave
- Trick Room
- Shadow Sneak
- Destiny Bond
- Taunt

This Banette is meant to be a lead. It can't be slept, and it can take a hit with the Focus Sash before using Trick Room and then bringing down a foe with Destiny Bond. It gets Trick Room up early, so stuff like life orb rampardos can rampage for a few turns. Taunting a setup foe like bronzong insures that they will attack you, so then you can trick room and destiny bond without having to waste any precious turns of trick room. Shadow Sneak is there for things like Stealth Rock Azelf and Deoxys-s, so that you can get a kill while they set up sr and still have full health, to take on the next guy with the Trick Room+Destiny Bond strategy, ending up ahead one Pokemon with trick room up in exchange for the opponent getting Stealth Rock up.

Staraptor @ Leftovers
Nature: Jolly
Evs: 228 hp, 240 Def, 40 Spe
- Featherdance
- Roost
- U-turn
- Brave Bird / Aerial Ace / Close Combat

This Staraptor set revolves around the use of the combination of intimidate and featherdance coupled with a pretty fast roost to neuter physical threats. He can come in on many physical threats with intimidate, putting the opponent at -1 attack. This in itself forces switches. But what makes the set is featherdance. Using this lowers the opponent's attack by another 2 stages, basically neutering physical threats. Now, featherdance forces a lot of switches, which can be taken advantage of with roost, to recover any health lost in the process, or with u-turn, for the invaluable purpose of scouting. The last move is for STAB, and to destroy those fighting type pokemon that might kill you with supereffective attacks after you roost. Close combat is an option if you fear things like tyranitar, though the defense drop does significantly decrease your bulk, so keep that in mind. You'll get the most mileage out of bulky staraptor with a spinner, as it is meant to switch in a lot, and 25% just for coming in isn't very appealing.

A big part of the set is utilizing roost to make those deadly rock and electric attacks go from super effective to neutral. Knowing when to roost at the right time recovers a lot of health and often will save staraptor from death by supereffective attacks. Roosting often turn certain attacks, like stone edges from gyarados and tyranitar, is vital to the survival of the bird. The evs give staraptor 270 speed, enough to outspeed all base 85 speed pokemon with 252 evs and a neutral, like adamant heracross, for example. The hp and defense evs give staraptor a defense tier of 123.56 with intimidate factored in, which is higher than skarmory's. A more in depth discussion of this set, complete with damage calculations and the opinions of the community, can be found here.

Click to expand...

This set was made a while back.. and I still haven't tested it yet. But I suggest giving it 40 more EVs worth of speed to hit 280. Why? You outspeed and destroy Lucario with this set so he can't close combat you. You may be able to bluff a faster Staraptor, but your opponent will realize your running the bulky spread and (should) attack accordingly. Just a minor safety precaution I wanted to bring up. I'm not sure how that will affect his defense losing 10 points though...

Stathakis said:

Banette @ Focus Sash
Ability: Insomnia
Evs: 252 Atk/252 Hp/ 4 Def
Nature: Brave
- Trick Room
- Shadow Sneak
- Destiny Bond
- Taunt

This Banette is meant to be a lead. It can't be slept, and it can take a hit with the Focus Sash before using Trick Room and then bringing down a foe with Destiny Bond. It gets Trick Room up early, so stuff like life orb rampardos can rampage for a few turns. Taunting a setup foe like bronzong insures that they will attack you, so then you can trick room and destiny bond without having to waste any precious turns of trick room. Shadow Sneak is there for things like Stealth Rock Azelf and Deoxys-s, so that you can get a kill while they set up sr and still have full health, to take on the next guy with the Trick Room+Destiny Bond strategy, ending up ahead one Pokemon with trick room up in exchange for the opponent getting Stealth Rock up.

Click to expand...

That is a great set, might use it. BTW, did you make these up, or are you finding them??

Stathakis said:

Groudon @ Life Orb
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 200 Hp / 252 Atk / 40 Def / 16 Speed
Nature: Adamant
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- Fire-Punch/Dragon Claw
- Rock Polish


Constructed, from the Analysis's, Other options. Works wonders with SR support. The EVs, give 391 Hp, 438 Attack, 325 Defense, and 221 Speed. 391 Hp is useful as to allow Groudon to take some decent hits before going down. 221 Speed allows groudon to outspeed 252 Speed, +Nature Deoxys F. Max attack, because it will be outrunning everything anyway. The rest is dumped in Def, to mitigate damage from Extremespeed-ers like Arceus and Rayquaza. Earthquake is a given, with STAB. Stone Edge can move large dents in Lugia and covers alot that EQ doesn't. The choice between Fire Punch and Dragon Claw is difficult. Dragon Claw, disallows a Latias switch-in, KOing it with SR, whereas fire punch will stop Forry and Skarm from ruining the party.

Click to expand...

i know this isn't the thread where we critic the movesets and such, but i've been away for a while and im gonna do it here. First off, 16 speed for groudon only gives 220 Speed, not 221. Also, i would suggest using 230 speed as after a rock polish every sinlge Base 90 Scarfer will be outsped (Kyogre, Dialga, Ho-oh). The HP should also end with a 9 to minimalize LO recoil. The new EV spread should read 192 Hp / 252 Atk / 8 Def / 56 Speed.

Also, i do not personally think that Stone Edge should be a requirment on this set. I have used this set a month ago on my team, and i used EQ, DC and Fire Punch. Stone edge has very few uses in ubers (other than Ho-oh). Even with Stone edge lugia still walls the set and this groudon needs to be brought out AFTER lugia is dead or severly weakened. That is my two cents.

RaikouLover said:

This set was made a while back.. and I still haven't tested it yet. But I suggest giving it 40 more EVs worth of speed to hit 280. Why? You outspeed and destroy Lucario with this set so he can't close combat you. You may be able to bluff a faster Staraptor, but your opponent will realize your running the bulky spread and (should) attack accordingly. Just a minor safety precaution I wanted to bring up. I'm not sure how that will affect his defense losing 10 points though...

Click to expand...

I suppose that the extra ten points could be helpful after the cat is out of the bag. but that does kinda mess up the calcs. maybe an alternate spread, as it's only really beneficial if you choose close combat as an option...

Pimplup said:

That is a great set, might use it. BTW, did you make these up, or are you finding them??

Click to expand...

no, I did not make these up. me and about 8 other people combed through the creative moveset thread and got all the sets. the ones that were good we didn't touch. the ones that had good ideas but needed tweaking we tweaked. and the ones that had no hope we tossed. most of the tweaking was done by myself, darkie, and wayff, and the combing was done by myself, light, maniaclyrasist, wayff, justinawe, sikh assassin, umbarsc, brawlex, matty, and articanus. other people who looked through the thread but unfortunately through miscommunication and inbox clearing their work went to waste (yea it's a run-on, but you get the idea) were venom, aldaron, and gormenghast. the original idea was aldaron's, but for some reason he decided to stop contributing (good thing he's started again, though I still wish I knew why he stopped). giving credit where it's due.

ultimifier said:

i know this isn't the thread where we critic the movesets and such, but i've been away for a while and im gonna do it here. First off, 16 speed for groudon only gives 220 Speed, not 221. Also, i would suggest using 230 speed as after a rock polish every sinlge Base 90 Scarfer will be outsped (Kyogre, Dialga, Ho-oh). The HP should also end with a 9 to minimalize LO recoil. The new EV spread should read 192 Hp / 252 Atk / 8 Def / 56 Speed.

Also, i do not personally think that Stone Edge should be a requirment on this set. I have used this set a month ago on my team, and i used EQ, DC and Fire Punch. Stone edge has very few uses in ubers (other than Ho-oh). Even with Stone edge lugia still walls the set and this groudon needs to be brought out AFTER lugia is dead or severly weakened. That is my two cents

Click to expand...

on the contrary, this is where you critic the sets. the people who tweaked the sets beforehand (me, darkie, and wayff) were pretty much clueless as to ubers, and they had a decent description to go with the set, so we let it through. opinions are appreciated, especially when they are backed up by playtesting (I haven't playtested any of the ubers or uu ones). thanks for contributing.

Stathakis said:

no, I did not make these up. me and about 8 other people combed through the creative moveset thread and got all the sets. the ones that were good we didn't touch. the ones that had good ideas but needed tweaking we tweaked. and the ones that had no hope we tossed. most of the tweaking was done by myself, darkie, and wayff, and the combing was done by myself, light, maniaclyrasist, wayff, justinawe, sikh assassin, umbarsc, brawlex, matty, and articanus. other people who looked through the thread but unfortunately through miscommunication and inbox clearing their work went to waste (yea it's a run-on, but you get the idea) were venom, aldaron, and gormenghast. the original idea was aldaron's, but for some reason he decided to stop contributing (good thing he's started again, though I still wish I knew why he stopped). giving credit where it's due.

Click to expand...

Have you noticed my BulkyDDNite set?? Just wondering, because it actually works very well;).

hmmmmmm, bulkyddnite. the best one we found was maniac's.
Dragonite (M) @ Apicot Berry
Trait: Inner Focus
EVs: 28 HP / 168 Atk / 176 Spd / 136 SDef
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Dragon Dance
- Substitute
- Outrage/Dragon Claw
- Roost

there was also one with light screen, but I don't remember where that one went. I'd write up bulkyddnite's description and whatnot now, but I did like 10 today, and I'm feeling kinda lazy atm.

Stathakis said:

hmmmmmm, bulkyddnite. the best one we found was maniac's.
Dragonite (M) @ Apicot Berry
Trait: Inner Focus
EVs: 28 HP / 168 Atk / 176 Spd / 136 SDef
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Dragon Dance
- Substitute
- Outrage/Dragon Claw
- Roost

there was also one with light screen, but I don't remember where that one went. I'd write up bulkyddnite's description and whatnot now, but I did like 10 today, and I'm feeling kinda lazy atm.

Click to expand...

Mine is much better at walling though xP.

well mistakes can be made. repost yours in the creative moveset thread and we'll take a closer look to find out which one is more viable. or maybe they both are, and they serve different purposes (i.e. mixape is not more viable than scarfape or vice versa)

I did the light screen 'nite. It was:

Dragonite @ Lum Berry
Ability: Inner Focus
Nature: Adamant
EVs: 252 HP / 60 Atk / 196 Spe
*Dragon Dance
*Outrage
*Light Screen / Earthquake
*Roost

Light screen is preferred, but some people may just want to start hammering things off the bat.

BulkyDDNite

Here it is, BulkyDDNite!!


name: BulkyDDNite
move 1: Dragon Dance
move 2: Fire Punch
move 3: Outrage/Dragon Claw
move 4: Roost/Heal Bell/Safeguard
item: Leftovers/Life Orb
ability: Inner Focus
nature(s): Impish
evs: 8 HP/168 Atck/252 Def/32 Sp.Def/48 Speed

This thing is supposed to work just like BulkyGyara, but with better Defenses, and Roost. The EV's are designed as so that a Weavile's Ice Shard will do about 97% at most and Dragonite can throw a Fire Punch back at it.

Life Orb is an option for late game sweep, and you can always Roost off damage. Leftover's is advised with Outrage because even if you hit yourself in Confusion, you'll restore 6% of your health. This pokemon is a great Bulky Sweeper, and can come in on Specs Starmie Thunderbolts, and SpecsMence Flamthrowers, and get a free DD up.

Now for the last slot Roost is the #1 option but the others have their benefits. Heal Bell if you don't have a Cleric Blissey is a lifesaver as it could help the team very much. Safeguard is a good option as well, as it let's 5 turns for your team to not get crippled by status effects, or 5 turns for D-Nite to set up.

In all, it'll shrug off most of the attacks thrown at it and be able to Sweep at the same time(With the EV's given it hits 519 Attack after a DD). Speed really isn't an issue because after a DD it reaches 298 Speed, a reasonable stat to work with. After more calcuations, I'll explain more in-depth. All I hope, is that you guys learn to respect my favorite Dragon from Fr/Lg;).

Calculations:

Choice Band Heracross

Adamant, Max Attack Hera, Night Slash: 15.95% - 18.60%.
Adamant, Max Attack Hera, Night Slash with Crit: 31.89% - 37.21%
Adamant, Max Attack Hera, Guts Activated Night Slash: 23.92% - 27.91%
Adamant, Max Attack Hera, Guts Activated, Critical Hit Night Slash: 47.51% - 56.15%

Choice Band Salamence

Adamant, Max Attack Mence, Dragon Claw: 57.48% - 67.44%
Adamant, Max Attack Mence, Rock Slide: 35.88% - 42.19%
Adamant, Max Attack Mence, Stone Edge: 47.51% - 56.15%
Adamant, Max Attack Mence, Stone Edge, Crit: 95.35% - 112.29%

SkarfChomp

Adamant, Max Attack Chomp, Stone Edge: 31.23% - 36.54%
Adamant, Max Attack Chomp, Stone Edge, Crit: 62.13% - 73.09%
Adamant, Max Attack Chomp, Outrage: 55.81% - 65.78%

Swords Dance, Yache Berry, Chomp

Jolly, Max Attack Chomp, +2 Dragon Claw: 74.09% - 87.38%

Hmm, could I ask on which page of the thread are you currently, or do you don't keep a count of that for any reason?

Mastadi said:

Hmm, could I ask on which page of the thread are you currently, or do you don't keep a count of that for any reason?

Click to expand...

This was Page 83... I need to remember just in case anybody wants to see the set, so I can copy+paste...

Those calcs are fucked up. Scarfchomp is doing a bit more than 65% with a 120 BP STAB Super effective attack... Word... Swords Dance chomp can't OHKO and its super effective??? Nope.. dont think thats right.

Yeah, Raikoulover is right the calc is messed up (were they done using a Haban Berry or something ...) but I was surprised to find this though:

Adamant, 252 Atk Garchomp's Outrage vs. Impish, 8 HP/252 Def Dragonite: 92% - 116%. I was surprised it wasn't guaranteed to OHKO.

Yeah, those calcs are way off. According to mine a +2 YacheChomp does 120-140 with Dragon Claw to that Dragonite. Some of the other calcs are definitely off too.

Mastadi said:

Hmm, could I ask on which page of the thread are you currently, or do you don't keep a count of that for any reason?

Click to expand...

well actually we didn't sort it that way. all of the sets were put into two big piles. page number means practically nothing. I have the viable sets all compiled together, and whenever I get the time I write up descriptions for them, usually around 3-4 a day, except yesterday, when I had a bit more time, and I wrote up a few more. if the set comes with a description in the thread I usually take that and modify it a bit to sound a little nicer and then use it.

On the Bulky Dragonite set, even resisted STAB Close Combat has 20 BP more than Night Slash. Those calcs need to be reworked.

bulkyddnite calcs

edit: ahh crap, accidentaly pressed submit too early. I'm reworking the calcs right now, with this calculator, for the record

Choice Band Heracross

Adamant, Max Attack Hera, Close Combat: 36% - 42%

you have a 13% chance of living through 2 of these with sr up, and that's without guts activated. needless to say, you can't switch in on stone edge. oh, he outspeeds you, too.

Choice Band Salamence

Adamant, Max Attack Mence, Dragon Claw: 101.23% - 119.38%
Adamant, Max Attack Mence, Rock Slide: 63.38% - 74.77%
Adamant, Max Attack Mence, Stone Edge: 84.31% - 99.78%


you get outsped and 2HKO'd by rockslide. ohko'd with sr by stone edge, and ohko'd by dragon claw. specsmence draco meteor and dragon pulse kill, before you ask.

SkarfChomp

Adamant, Max Attack Chomp, Stone Edge: 54.77% - 64.62%
Adamant, Max Attack Chomp, Outrage: 98.46% - 116%


outsped and 2HKO'd, except in the case of outrage.

Swords Dance, Yache Berry, Chomp

Jolly, Max Attack Chomp, +2 Dragon Claw: 119.69% - 140.92%

lol no

the verdict: did you even playtest this?

I did indeed, and it works very, very well. I used metalkid which is why the calcs are probably messed up...

Metalkid's calculator is certainly slightly out, but only by a very small fraction. Then again, it breaks my browser whenever I use it until I reboot the PC.

The set looks workable, as long as you don't let it take an Outrage or something stupid like that. I ran something similar a while back, and it worked well but really Salamence could pull off a similar set but with Intimidate, which won me over in the end :(

That's why Dragonite should abuse Light Screen like I suggested. If you take a look at the set I gave, you take 40% from Ice Beams and only 20% while roosting.