Kyurem

Its probably best just to max Speed in the first set unless those 40 Atk EVs actually do something.

Also, I assume you have tested the Frozen World lead set, how exactly did that go?

EDIT - NVM Frozen World is stupid.



Probably the best this thing's got. You REALLY need to stress Kyuremu's advantages over Palkia and Rayquaza when writing this.

why is this thing so bad

A choice set utilizing choice specs or choice scarf can be run but Kyurem will quickly die after switching in repeatedly to check opposing sweepers

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Is this after testing, or theorymon?? I don't know about you, but I personally love Specs Kyuremu, since so many Ubers do poorly against Ice (The only Steel type that can really switch into it repeatedly is Jirachi, really). You should probably mention Blizzard in Hail as well (At the very least OC), as it makes Kyuremu so much more powerful.

Done and done. Thanks!

Personally, I think HP Fire should be slashed over Focus Blast to allow Kyurem to hit stuff like Scizor, Forretress, and Nattorei. Also, Groudon could be a useful teammate for Kyurem as he does deal with steels extremely well. If you run HP Fire, he can bring the sunlight out to power the move up as well. Groudon also deals with Tyranitar which might give Kyurem some problems. Kyurem does a lot of damage to Lugia with STAB Ice Moves (since in the game Multiscale Lugia is not out yet it could actually be a useful check) which could help some Groudons in the long run.

Assuming this thing is in Ubers or its equivalent in Gen 5 and all the Dragons stay there, Kyurem will be really useful. Garchomp, Salamence, Rayquaza, even Lugia have problems with this thing, but being a slowpoke compared to all of them really doesn't help. With a Choice Scarf, it outspeeds no-items or boosts Lugia and can smash it with SE Ice moves, and Frozen World can also slow up Multiscale Lugia if you feel daring enough to run dual Ice or are prepared to Draco Meteor to hit it the turn after or get a strong hit on the switch as Lugia runs in fear. Kyurem also outspeeds Salamence with a Choice Scarf or with a Speed-boosting nature on a neutral Salamence with no boosts and severly injures or kills Salamence with Frozen World. If it doesn't and survives Salamence's attacks another hit will easily KO. Frozen World and Kyurem are really underrated. Those weaknesses are horrible, horrible, horrible, but Ice-Dragon STAB is amazing and with FB can hit Steels too.

Counters said:

Blizzard can be used over Ice Beam if your team is providing hail support

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This is in the wrong section.

Overview said:

Significant amount of bulk, which plays a big part in its viability

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Careful there. 125/90/90 is on par with Reshiram/Zekrom/Dialga's 100/120/100 (or 100/100/120 in Reshiram's case). Combined with the poor defensive typing I'm not sure if i'd say that it has a significant amount of bulk. It's still good bulk though, but "significant" seems a bit much.

Onto counters: Mention Steel Arceus (who can actually take repeated hits due to Recover, though it is weak to Focus Blast. It's also faster and can OHKO Kyu with Judgment after SR), and Ho-Oh (only fears Outrage and Stone Edge - which you -may- want to mention in OO)

Mentioning this again (well because Fireburn mentioned it) - you absolutely have to mention its advantages over Palkia and Rayquaza. Once you have done this in a fairly convincing manner, I will stamp Kyurem.


Also LevitatingLamprey, Kyurem is not Uber according to the current banlist, and likely won't be.

Since Kyurem is currently not in the Uber tier and likely won't become Uber barring some huge boost in the third game, I will move this to OU if nobody can demonstrate a set that is not an inferior Palkia.


EDIT: I have moved Kyurem to the OU forum, after it was decided that it should not receive an Uber analysis.

If I had to pick an advantage over Rayquaza and Palkia, I would say that its STAB Ice moves do a lot of damage to Lugia (you would need Stealth Rock to bypass Multiscale though, this is no problem in the actual game though for now) who can wall most Rayquaza sets and walls Palkia in the sun. Unlike Palkia who needs the rain to bypass Lugia, Kyurem can bypass the white bird in basically any weather, which can really cripple stall teams since Lugia is common on those. He can also go through Sp. Defensive Groudons pretty well, something that Rayquaza and Palkia kinda have trouble with (former's without Ice Beam, latter's in the sun). Obviously with the mixed attacking set, Kyurem has no trouble 2HKOing Blissey with Stab Outrages (you might wanna try claw sharpen on the mixed set to make it even more deadly). My point is that Kyurem's not as weather dependent as Palkia is while he does not get walled by Lugia very easily unlike Rayquaza. Even with his limited movepool, I think he might become very good on antistall teams because of these points. This is probably the only advantage I can think of but it can be pretty significant.

Would a mixed set with a Haban Berry work in Ubers? Obviously, Kyurem is still murdered by things like Metagross and Tyranitar, but it could take down Rayquaza or Garchomp.

I tested Specs out for a while today, its actually not that bad at all. There are so few things which can take Icebeam and Draco Meteor (Jirachi, Steelceus mostly), and Focus Blast is always neutral or better against these. But, Ice is the main spammable attack.

I'm locking this thread as per this post.