U-Turn/Volt Switch let's you switch out. I duno, in my opinion Wobbuffet is really easy to play around, since it only has four viable moves and more often than not you can predict what it's going to do the instant it switches in. I wish Substitute blocked Encore though :/
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RU Threat List
- Thread starter Xephyr
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I think it's more that you have the liberty to set-up in front of wobb when he's taunted that's threatening. Not the taunt itself
I use Wobbuffet to kill cressilia as long as a it doesn't have sub in it's movepool i Just tickle it and send in a Pursuiter to finish it off, usually Honchkrow.
Wobbuffet also works well against Dusknoir, you can't use counter on it but it's usually won't be carrying Shadow punch and most likely have 4 or 0 EVs in att so it won't be KO-ing you anytime soon and combined with tickle Dusknoir's attack and defense slowly but surely falls until it's -6 where it can be pursuited, I guess it works the same for Cofagrigis you can just keep encoreing it as you slow decrease it's defences but I've never faced one with Wobbuffet.
Wobbuffet could probably be used on a lot of walls too just be careful of toxic or sleep powder if your up against tangela.
Wobbuffet also works well against Dusknoir, you can't use counter on it but it's usually won't be carrying Shadow punch and most likely have 4 or 0 EVs in att so it won't be KO-ing you anytime soon and combined with tickle Dusknoir's attack and defense slowly but surely falls until it's -6 where it can be pursuited, I guess it works the same for Cofagrigis you can just keep encoreing it as you slow decrease it's defences but I've never faced one with Wobbuffet.
Wobbuffet could probably be used on a lot of walls too just be careful of toxic or sleep powder if your up against tangela.
The point of Wobbuffet isn't to get kills (unless it's Tickle + Scarf Honchkrow with Pursuit or something). The point is to use encore and then switch in something that laughs at the encore'd move so you can get a free set-up turn. On things like SmashPass teams, that one free set-up turn can lead to a victory.
lol Yeah that's how I've been using wooberfeet, tickle + honchkrow's pursuit, it doesn't need to have a scraf since more defensive threats are slower then honchkrow anyway since they invest in bulk instead of speed (generally)
I can understand encore giving you one extra turn to set up for victory but the ability to take out cressilia is HUGE, it's the most annoying wall in the game that you can't take down most of the time.
Sure if you set up a Smash pass to something threatening it's more or less GG most of the time although most people already have ways around smash pass it really depends which pokemon they're using to phaze/haze and what moves gorebyss is carrying, if it's carrying ice beam, any water pokemon can phaze it like blastoise or Pilowrath if it's Hp-elec, amonguss can clear smog and other pokemon that can take a +2 surf like Cofagrigus.
How did I get off topic?
Was talking about Wobbuffet, now it's smash pass lol ah well...
EDIT: Would Specs Slowking be good in RU?
Set]
Name: Choice Specs
Move 1: Surf
Move 2: Psychic
Move 3: Grass knot
Move 4: Fire Blast / Ice Beam
Item: Choice Specs
Ability: Regenerator
Nature: Modest
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 Def
Other Notable Move: Power Gem, Focus Blast, Shadow ball, Flamethrower, Psycho Shock and Obviously Hidden Power but with Slowking's great move pool, why use Hidden Power?
With an average base 100 SpA, nice Dual Stab and a Ability that begs you to switch out, Spec Slowking fits the choice user quite nicely, if you happen to be locked into a move that puts you at a disadvantage you can always switch out.
Sadly Trick is illegal with Regenerator, and Slowking is vulnerable to Suckerpunch.
I can understand encore giving you one extra turn to set up for victory but the ability to take out cressilia is HUGE, it's the most annoying wall in the game that you can't take down most of the time.
Sure if you set up a Smash pass to something threatening it's more or less GG most of the time although most people already have ways around smash pass it really depends which pokemon they're using to phaze/haze and what moves gorebyss is carrying, if it's carrying ice beam, any water pokemon can phaze it like blastoise or Pilowrath if it's Hp-elec, amonguss can clear smog and other pokemon that can take a +2 surf like Cofagrigus.
How did I get off topic?
Was talking about Wobbuffet, now it's smash pass lol ah well...
EDIT: Would Specs Slowking be good in RU?
Set]
Name: Choice Specs
Move 1: Surf
Move 2: Psychic
Move 3: Grass knot
Move 4: Fire Blast / Ice Beam
Item: Choice Specs
Ability: Regenerator
Nature: Modest
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 Def
Other Notable Move: Power Gem, Focus Blast, Shadow ball, Flamethrower, Psycho Shock and Obviously Hidden Power but with Slowking's great move pool, why use Hidden Power?
With an average base 100 SpA, nice Dual Stab and a Ability that begs you to switch out, Spec Slowking fits the choice user quite nicely, if you happen to be locked into a move that puts you at a disadvantage you can always switch out.
Sadly Trick is illegal with Regenerator, and Slowking is vulnerable to Suckerpunch.
Oh the days when wobbuffet was in ubers.... And now how it's fallen.
But seriously, wobbuffet has to worry about to many things that could happen. It could get toxiced (Even if you set up safeguard, they can just spam toxic until safeguard wears off) or the opponent could be running a mixed set. Some pokemon can run unpredictable sets that will surprise you. For example, You have Wobbuffet and I have Seismitoad. Seismitoad could run physical or special sets. You use counter and it use hydro pump. Game over.
But seriously, wobbuffet has to worry about to many things that could happen. It could get toxiced (Even if you set up safeguard, they can just spam toxic until safeguard wears off) or the opponent could be running a mixed set. Some pokemon can run unpredictable sets that will surprise you. For example, You have Wobbuffet and I have Seismitoad. Seismitoad could run physical or special sets. You use counter and it use hydro pump. Game over.
Try Future Sight on Specs Modest Slowking. It now takes into account Weakness and Resistance as well as STAB and it got a boost to 100BP this gen. Switching in and out with Slowking is easy and nothing will like taking a Choice Spec 100BP STAB move on top of whatever you're throwing at them at the time. It will not disappoint ;)
It may have gotten buffed, but then you realize you can only have one Future Sight at a time, meaning you are forced to switch out the next turn or being forced to waste a turn, as Future Sight fails until it hits. With Psychic, you can actually attack twice before switching out. And the fact it applies Weakness and Resistance makes it even worse, as Honchkrow comes in, waits to Pursuit your ass, then takes no damage from the Future Sight.
Slowking (or bro for that matter) is way too slow to sweep with a Specs set. It's almost always going to switch out straight away, especially early - mid game. Also using Psychic is far worse than Future Sight because Honchkrow can still come in and take no damage while Pursuiting you on your way out.
What I'm saying is Future Sight is now a powerful move this gen because it gets affected by Weakness and Resistance now. It fits better with a Specs user simply because of the fact that you will be switching often anyway. When your opponent switches in their Slowking counter, you can switch to your counter and they will be stuck between a rock and a hard place as to what to do next. I consider Future Sight a better option than Psychic on a Specs set because it is more powerful and switching to a counter does not affect it's performance.
I send in Rhyperior, what's your point? Yes switching is a legal move in Pokemon...
What makes it not viable? Could you give some reasons? On a sweeper it isn't of course but a Specs Slowking was mentioned and I think it is a perfect user of Future Sight with decent Sp.Atk, Regeneration and a good defensive type and bulk allowing for easy switches in and out. It has 5 BP more than Psychic as well as a 2 turn (or 3 turn if you count the turn it is used) delay which means you cannot just switch in a Psychic resist to beat it. It is much harder to work around than Psychic and is the better Psychic type move on a Specs user imo.
He's saying Future Sight isn't viable because he can switch to a Dark type to absorb the blow (Future Sight still takes immunity into account) That said, if you Ice Beam'd immediately afterwards then Honchkrow might be in a pickle. I don't like Future Sight in general because it has less utility on your average offensive pokemon (can't revenge kill) and has little distribution at all to stally ones.
Also, why are people suggesting Specs Slowking? Doesn't Slowbro do it better thanks to has better defensive utility? His typing generally leans more towards physical tanking than special tanking.
Also, why are people suggesting Specs Slowking? Doesn't Slowbro do it better thanks to has better defensive utility? His typing generally leans more towards physical tanking than special tanking.
Slowbro is UU
Gorebyss used Shell Smash! Slowking used Psychic! Gorebyss used HP Grass! Slowking survived! Slowking used Psychic! Gorebyss fainted!
OR
Gorebyss used Shell Smash! Slowking used Future Sight! Slowking switched out and sent in --. Gorebyss used Shell Smash again! Gorebyss used Baton Pass into Honchkrow! Honchkrow probably isn't KO'd! You: FUUUUUUUUUUUU
So with Psychic we have a weakened Slowking but a dead SmashPasser, but with Future Sight we have a healthy Slowking and a Honchkrow at +4 speed and attack. Personally, I like the first one better.
@ waterwarrior: Imaginary battles aren't useful arguments because any Pokemon can be made to look bad (Darkrai vs Scarf Primeape etc etc...). It's a valid argument but you will not send Slowking in on a Gorebyss I hope... A more realistic scenario would be a Psychic, Steel or Dark type coming in on a predicted Psychic and facing a Future Sight instead. Instead of having wasted a turn doing pitiful damage, you can now switch to your counter and begin to leverage the extra damage that Future Sight will provide.
@ Xephyr: the point of the 2 turn delay can be used by you to put the opponent into a bad situation. The idea of using a certain move is to try to use it to your advantage not to give the opponent 2 turns to prepare... Are you seriously using that as an argument that Future Sight gives the opponent 'multiple turns to prepare'? Any move can give the opponent 'multiple turns to prepare' if you just sit there, this effect is not exclusive to Future Sight...
I just going to try to avoid this thread in future because clearly a discussion about a move's (possible) use in RU can never happen. I would be happy to oblige if all you wanted was for this to be a troll thread.
@ Xephyr: the point of the 2 turn delay can be used by you to put the opponent into a bad situation. The idea of using a certain move is to try to use it to your advantage not to give the opponent 2 turns to prepare... Are you seriously using that as an argument that Future Sight gives the opponent 'multiple turns to prepare'? Any move can give the opponent 'multiple turns to prepare' if you just sit there, this effect is not exclusive to Future Sight...
I just going to try to avoid this thread in future because clearly a discussion about a move's (possible) use in RU can never happen. I would be happy to oblige if all you wanted was for this to be a troll thread.
The situation I used wasn't sending in Slowking to Gorebyss, it was sending in Gorebyss to Slowking... and wats the differnece between pitiful damge one turn than slightly less pitiful damage two turns later. It just doesn't work.
If Future Sight is such a great move, why isn't it on any analysis and why hasn't it been advocated by any of the established players? News flash: you didn't just discover a brilliant new strategy that's going to take the Pokemon world by storm. Future Sight is not a good move competitively. Doom Desire is slightly better since no one is totally immune to it, but not much, and still is basically never used by anyone.
I never said I invented anything. I suggested a move over the 'standard' Psychic that could have some merits. Something that I thought was worth a discussion about. Let's all stick to the conventional moves used in the analysis while we're at it and try not to discuss any new sets. Who's the witch that mentioned Sub Disable Gengar?
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Well hopefully you won't be doing pitiful damage 2 turns later because their Psychic resist would have been forced out by then and they will have to take a 100BP STAB Specs Psychic attack along with the attack you are firing at them that turn. It's a way to 'get around' Slowking (or bro's) usual counters and a way to squeeze the opponent with two attacks in one turn. Future Sight was never even considered last gen because it was so weak, not affected by STAB and (crucially imo) not affected by weaknesses. Now that it is, it can be seen as a more powerful Psychic that strikes 2 turns later. I don't think doing pitiful damage is an argument against it anymore, the more pressing problem is giving up a moveslot that can only be used once every 3 turns. This is why Slowking (and bro) are probably the only ones viable using it because of their Regenerator ability.
Oh yeah. My bad.
So I´ve been looking through the list, and there are a few Pokemon I feel need to be added. These include Dugtrio, Scyther, Wobbuffet, Krookodile, Altaria, Poliwrath, Electivire, Medicham, Ninjask, Qwilfish, and Hariyama. I know this is a shitload, but the majority of these Pokemon have at least a UU analysis, and some even an OU analysis. They all have their niches and are legitimate threats in the RU metagame.
I agree with: Dugtrio, Wobbuffet, Krookodile, Altaria, Poliwrath, Electivite, Medicham, and Hariyama
I disagree with: Scyther, Ninjask, Qwilfish
Scyther's weakness to Stealth Rock is just too bad, and he's just too underwhelming as a potential "sweeper" here. His technician boosted Aerial Aces can hurt, but I've never had any trouble dealing with him whatsoever. He's handled too easily by the likes of Rhyperior to be very effective.
Ninjask is just lame.
Qwilfish I'm on the fence with. He's a decent spiker but can't do much else...he's kind of outclassed by other spikers.
I disagree with: Scyther, Ninjask, Qwilfish
Scyther's weakness to Stealth Rock is just too bad, and he's just too underwhelming as a potential "sweeper" here. His technician boosted Aerial Aces can hurt, but I've never had any trouble dealing with him whatsoever. He's handled too easily by the likes of Rhyperior to be very effective.
Ninjask is just lame.
Qwilfish I'm on the fence with. He's a decent spiker but can't do much else...he's kind of outclassed by other spikers.
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