Mafia From the Depths - GAME OVER, INSANE WIN

Metal Sonic, holy fuck. First you state that zorbees is our target for the day with no exlanation and now you just say askaninjak's post was bad with no reasoning behind the statement at all. Askaninjak's post was fine, he was simply defending himself and justifying his vote. As for my reads, I think Spiffy is the cleanest judging by his recent posts. I can't really get a strong scum read on anyone yet, but I will be looking out for anything suspicious. In the meantime, LightWolf, what do you think of the following players:
Spiffy, zorbees, Empoof

@ Empoof,

I think you misread my question 1, hehe.

I wanted you to post your thoughts on what happened Day 2, and to re-read the parts that you missed, then post your opinion. I hope you can do that in your next post.


More questions:

#3 Zorbees, More Cowbell and askaninjask; who is scummier and why? Why aren't the two seem as scum in your eyes? Provide reasoning for and against.

#4 Your thoughts on the new sub-in: citro. Compare his play with TPM's, and post a short analysis of 1 paragraph.


Please answer them; help the town; you're at L-2 and very likely of being lynched

citro said:

Curious as to why people are so eager to sentry Spiffy? Walrein didn't rule him out as possible scum and I don't think we should either.

Spiffy's recent "it's x y or z" thing leads me to believe he's hoping for a mislynch today but is covering his back so he can get another village lynched tomorrow, which is pretty common for scum... Also what is with you sentrying askaninjask yesterday and suddenly turning on him? that seems weird imo.

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What I said was "at this time". It's not like I'm not open to the possibility of everyone else being mafia, if that's what you think. Obviously I will be observing EVERYONE, not just those three.
I sentried askaninjask for two reasons:
1.) I didn't think the mafia would kill shinyskarmory because they didn't do it on Night 2.
2.) I REALLY thought Walrein was mafia and I didn't see them being on the same scumteam.

askaninjask we are aware that you can defend yourself but it would be nice for you to actually inform us of reads and who you want to lynch today. Does Walrein's town flip change any of your thoughts on Metal Sonic and Empoof?

Empoof did the same thing, please post your thoughts on the lynch as well.

Metal Sonic, contrary to what you believe, focusing on one player is not a good Day. We explored multiple options before we settled on Eagle4, so an immediate push to L-2 is not necessary. I also really dislike your quick change to Empoof without giving any reasoning yourself. Metal Sonic, what was it that you found scummy about zorbees initially, and why did you change your target to Empoof so quickly?

Shining Latios said:

In the meantime, LightWolf, what do you think of the following players:
Spiffy, zorbees, Empoof

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Time to post again(I blame the combination of LCS superweek and friday/saturday night PF sessions).

Well lets start with Empoof:

I have stated this already, and honestly the Walrein flip didn't change my mind. Actually it made my town "read"(really my reads are not like you guys', but it's the best word I could think of) more solid on him. I have talked about the RVS same exact vote as Eagle thing enough already so lets skip that. Why the Walrein lynch made it more solid? Simple, I have said it a few times, but Eagle has been buddying with Empoof too, around the same level as Walrein. He also mentions both at the same time as town a couple of times. Sure WIFOM again, he may be grouping a scum and a village on purpose, but with everything else I saw from my Eagle-thing, I'm honestly leaning towards Empoof being clean. Yes my main point is still that Eagle basically copied Empoof's vote after a few minutes, and my argument is entirely base on "fake" psychology(fake as in I have no degree in it, but I believe I'm accurate in this case). So yeah with SS dead, Empoof is in my opinion the cleanest around, and would love to sentry him... If he wasn't the current lynch target at L-2... And honestly unless people completely are convinced of his innocence by the end of the day, he will still remain a suspect, which is as good as a Sentry.

Now for zorbees, Spiffy and since I look at them as a trio I might as well include aska.

I have previously stated I suspect them, just based on the likeliness of having a scum within them. The kill was finally aimed at a non experienced player, but it's a gigantic pile of WIFOM, so I can't really use that as an argument of them containing a scum. While I honestly would generally leave it at that for them, but in the current situation my hands are kind of forced. To explain this: Currently Empoof is being pressured, who is my main town read. My two main suspects are SL who no one wants to look at(don't like the argument of would have been stopped, why did no one apply that to Eagle's buddying, why did they not stop him from buddying with Walrein if Walrein was his teammate?) so he is fairly ineffective target now(Day 3 I still tried, but honestly I will just leave him for later). For my other suspect, that was TPM, and I'm honestly not comfortable with lynching his sub when he has yet to play a full day... Unless he gives me a good reason to do so today, for fairness' sake I will postpone him too.

So with my suspects kind of being unusable for various reason described above and the most of the rest being town in my opinion, I shall turn my attention to the Experienced trio.

In honour of SS's memory I will not do that in this post, but my next one. (honestly I feel that might be an actual smogon page long...) Buuuuuuut knowing how long my god damned Eagle thing took, when he had 27 freaking posts(1 hour 30 min), and that aska has 31, Spiffy got 61 and finally zorbees possess 73 posts, I'm not getting my hopes up for finishing any time soon. (If we assume linear scaling if that's the right word for this, it'd take me 9 hours and 10 minutes...)

So for everyone's sake(mostly mine) I will do zorbees later today, and then do both Spiffy and aska tomorrow.(start with the hardest, finish with the easiest, best plan(minus the actual plan being LoL first, then zorbees, sleep, LoL, Spiffy, LoL, aska, sleep/LoL)

Did I just waste a lot of words telling people what I will do? Yeah I did, honestly I never know where I'm headed when I start writing the posts, this is why they always end up ultra huge.

I agree with LightWolf that Shining Latios went largely unnoticed on Day 3. I heavily suspected him Days 1 and 2, but ever since then this has largely been replaced with suspicion of Metal Sonic. Also adding to this is the fact that SL only has 5 posts on Day 3, which is very little, especially given the fact that we are moving towards the later section of the game. SL vouched for an Empoof lynch, and only an Empoof lynch, not changing votes during the day. On previous days you were very active, and now not so much, so I was hoping to get something out of you, SL.

You chose not to lynch yet, but if you had to right now, who would you lynch? And what players do you consider town?

How is not changing votes suspicious at all? If I feel confident he is scum, I am not going to change my vote (yes, even after all the other stuff that happened). If I had to lynch someone right now, I would go for Metal Sonic. His posts lately have just been nonsense. Claiming he is the #1 scum hunter, then proceeds to say zorbees is our target for the day without any explanation on why. He seems to care more about lynching in general then finding information to lead us on who is actual scum. I am baffled on why he wants zorbees to explain why he didn't vote Eagle for a L-1, when zorbees has already told him the reasoning. I feel like Metal Sonic just wants to throw out reasons to get someone lynched, scum or not. As for who I think is town, I think Spiffy, askaninjask, and yourself are the cleanest right now. All of you have contributed very well and have been helpful recently.

Shining Latios why aren't you voting for him then?

And something I forgot, please explain why you think askaninjask's post was bad.

Good point, Lynch Metal Sonic.

Also, I never said askaninjask's post was bad.

Sorry, I meant for Metal Sonic to answer that.

Since I agree with Metal Sonic that the previous aska post was bad, here are some of my thoughts:

askaninjask said:

While there wasn't an Empoof post inbetween my votes, there WAS a Walrein post, and I was pretty explicit why I voted Walrein then and left Empoof. Obviously, it was probably a mistake. I really liked the Walrein vote then though...

Note here, he never explains why he criticized me for the same thing, yet expects a pass for when he does it. This is a very typical theme with askaninjask.

What can I even say about your second point? That you're wrong?

Here, he could have addressed why he felt the need for the sentry two days in a row, but no, he just goes with some snarky response that doesn't say anything.

How am I doing the bare minimum? Certainly I didn't do a ton on Day 1, but since then I have tried to be reasonably active. I don't have as much time to devote to this game as I would like.

Note that askaninjask doesn't even respond to Spiffy's criticism that he is using the exact strategy he previously stated he had used as scum.

I did not see the Empoof post when I voted Walrein on Day 1. I assumed it was a standard "random vote, sentry DLE" post like the rest of them and scrolled over it without reading it carefully enough to realize he was sentrying himself.

This paragraph bugs me just because it seems odd that he'd skim over Empoof's post but not Walrein's. I don't really care though because I don't read much into RVS.

At the end of the day yesterday, I got a better vibe from Empoof than from Walrein, so I voted Walrein. Walrein honestly, aside from his final post, made a series of unbelievably scummy posts at the end of Day 3. My read was wrong, but it wasn't unfounded.

I didn't really like this paragraph, because everything else is in response to something someone else brought up, while no one questioned aska's day 3 vote. It strikes me as him being overly defensive.

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Note that overall, he doesn't bring up anyone to target, and seems to only be concerned about his own survival.

Shining Latios, I never said not changing votes is bad; in your case it just looked like a ''I'm gonna vote and then I'm outta here'' kinda thing. Note how my Day 3 vote never changed either, it was always Metal Sonic.

I still can't wrap my head around Metal Sonic and it's making me kinda mad. I mean, his plays are so incredibly weird and so out-in-the-open that, on one hand, I think ''he could never be mafia'', while on the other hand it could be a tactic of its own. Dang.

@zorbees: My argument against Spiffy was that he did not pick any enemies on Day 1 and used "teaching other users how to play" as a facade of activity to mask that. I may have made a post that might be interpreted as "teaching other users how to play" but in that same post I initiated a fight with Walrein.

I was relatively active on Day 2, have a "big name", and I felt that I was a pretty likely mafia target, so I wanted sentry. I wanted to stay in the game, so I wanted sentry so I wouldn't be nightkilled. I didn't feel like I had to reiterate it, so I made a "snarky" remark. I felt the same way about Day 3. I didn't think the mafia would actually kill shinyskarmory, since he's not a powerhouse user.

I'm not loving either of you two right now, honestly. Spiffy pushed the Walrein vote really hard yesterday. You parroted me almost literally on Day 2 until I called you out on it, and now you're attacking me on some pretty shaky arguments. Your behavior prior to today has not given me a very town read, so for now vote zorbees.

are you still on that one post where i used a couple of the same words as you?

Empoof hadn't replied yet... >:(

@Spiffy: Day 2 was a strong focusing on just you and Eagle. It was just convenient for us that we had enough time to get a reasonably accurate town read on you and then enough time to pressure Eagle on the same day who was conveniently mafia. An immediate push to L-2 is necessary due to the maximisation of time usage.
Zorbees was just sort of a RVS because of the really bad reason of Eagle buddying him. He has provided a sufficient reply and to be honest I don't have much firepower against him yet so it would be more constructive to examine Empoof instead.

@ Cowbell

I am really not taking your 'suspicion' on me very seriously. I believe Walrein's suspicion was even more provoking than you are. All you are doing are leaking traces of scum... because I am "weird". A++ I bet you voted for Mitt Romney


askaninjask post was scummy. It... just is. One scum post does not necessarily mean he is scum, but please do take note, and be careful!

First you say that my vote isn't to be taken serious, then you say askaninjask's post is scummy because ''it just is''. Seriously, Metal Sonic? Why would you not take my vote on you serious? I've been voting on you for the past two days, and yet you just push it away as baseless suspicion. I don't get why I'd be scummy, while you are the one making incomprehensible posts.

Also, just to get it out there, I'm neither American nor eligible to vote, but if I could, Romney wouldn't exactly top my list. How that matters in this game, I don't know.

As in; I don't get why it makes me scummy if you post your own suspicions without explaining them, while I do.

Also guys, I know there's not always something to talk about, but the posting over the last day has been very meager. I know there's only 9 of us now, and Smogon is obviously not the only thing in your lives, but three people have not even voted yet, and few people have really contributed. I've seen Shining Latios and LightWolf viewing the thread, but no contributions from either. I was looking forward to LightWolf's input on zorbees, askaninjask and Spiffy, but it looks like that isn't happening right now.

Again, I know all of you have other things to do, but the fact of the matter is still that we have very little to go by from Day 4, and we're only 2 days from deadline now.

Well Empoof hasn't posted anything to convince me to take my vote off of him so I really have nothing to add. I still think the remaining scum team is aska and Empoof.

Hey, sorry I passed out after work yesterday, and there's an accident on the bridge so it's taking me a while to get home. It's hard to post well from my phone, but when I get back I can actually read the thread and respond to things (that I'm sure I have to)

Anyways, while you're waiting for me check interactions from D2!! Don't just twiddle your thumbs because I can't do anything right now, you guys can analyze Eagle's relationships too :p

Okay time to stop being lazy and finally do this... In one post... Man I never learn.

zorbees:

First small rant. I obviously can go at this the same way as Eagle's thing, since for Eagle I knew he was mafia, I could base it on that, but not with these guys. So my main target is finding logic that I feel doesn't make sense for a villager at all(this doesn't refer to logic that I disagree with, there is a bunch of that, but in those cases I can understand why the person could believe them to be right)

Day 1:

Hmmm, hard one, he is mostly throwing around votes, quickly jumping around, but there is nothing wrong with that honestly, since he provided a good enough reason every time(minus IC lynch, but inspecting the post he referred to in detail, I can agree that it's hard to put into word why it was scummy)

Now one thing he did that caught my eye, was bringing up Eagle near the end of the day. And unless I'm completely wrong(too lazy to check, and it surely didn't happen two pages before) he was the first to actually put up Eagle for discussion. That's some extremely high quality bussing there if he is scum. Honestly if this was say after jalmont's post on day 2, I'd be biased and say he could be bussing, but this is way too early(though if there was honestly any serious FoSing of Eagle before that, feel free to point it out to me.

So for day 1, looking good zorbees, looking good...

Day 2:

Okay, I noticed this partially on Day 1, but it has become a bit too obvious day 2, you appear to have very similar reasonings to mine in many cases... Especially obvious is:

Another thing I don't like about Walrein is how he defended himself about the accidental hammer, despite no one saying anything about it. Seems overly paranoid of him.

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which I pointed out earlier when some asked me about Walrein among others. And honestly I like that. Sure sometimes you argue differently, but many cases your reasonings are close to mine. Though this means I will go for you much harder if you end up doing exactly the things you pointed out to be scummy...

Either way, some people also questioned him not wanting to put it at L-1 on Eagle, but honestly I do not see what was wrong with this. I personally wasted a long time whether I should put Walrein at L-1 too, especially when some may end up voting just as I did, and that may have happened with zorbees too.

For his behavior, similar to day 1, less jumping around, more focused pressuring(though I guess most of the jumping around can be accounted to the RVS)

Day 3:

And Day 3 marks the first time I actually have to call bogus on zorbees. He claims "However, when some more pressure came his way, he decided that Walrein wasn't as clearly town as he thought, and decided he would rather sentry Spiffy. I view this as an attempt to, if lynched, defuse the accusations of him buddying Walrein." Why? Because while Eagle was bought up, he only had jalmont voting him at the time for pages. I'd understand if you said that he decided to ditch walrein because both spiffy and you decided to put pressure on him. Sure could be you were simply remembering wrong, or just not realising how much time had passed between eagle being brought up day 2 and eagle being actually bandwagoned day 2.

Why is this a problem for me? You were extremely consistent till now, I do not think you were wrong on any facts before that you used for your reasonings. Buuuut honestly this is not enough to undo the serving Eagle on a silver plate, especially when someone crazy enough to give up his team mate who was fairly unnoticed till then, wouldn't try to get someone lynched with mistaken reasonings.

Solid for the rest of the day though, not much to say there. Just this time he throws around the sentry vote instead of the actual vote. Which I can't argue with, if I did my Eagle thing earlier, I'd have voted Empoof for sentry, but would end up back on SS again as well.

Day 4:

WHAT IN GODS NAME IS UP WITH THIS DAY. How was my last post, more than a day old still on the last page. There is extremely little here people(and hey I haven't been posting much before either, did SS and Walrein really take the activity with them?). There is so little I could comment on here, that I honestly have nothing to say...


Well for actual happenings, and the result of my check on zorbees, I have decided to Sentry zorbees. Two reasons: 1. He handed us Eagle, and my only problem with him is minor compared to this. 2. Empoof is L-2, why I believe him to be the cleanest alive, there is not much point voting him with a sentry because he is obviously not winning it.

So the end result is finding a nice enough hint on zorbees' townness, with little to be against it. But I'm not underestimating him yet obviously.(I'm sorry for anyone who realises I p much called them stupid)

Honestly zorbees was easier to do, due to general shortness of his posts, and just by reading his posts, I saw the things Spiffy posted, gulp... Well this time round I swear that after lunch I will be going after spiffy and aska.(Unless LoL happens.... or Tvtropes... or I decided to reread OP for the Xth time... but statistics prove that I actually so shit before my deadline, sooooo if I wanna find myself a lynch target, I gotta do this after lunch...)

3 posts(by different users) in 24 hours! OK

Empoof hasn't replied me after ~ 48 hours! OK


Totally A++ activity guys....




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