Mafia From the Depths - GAME OVER, INSANE WIN

oh man sorry I have been keeping up but I haven't posted :( i will stay active i promise

I think askaninjask seems pretty scummy at the moment because of his OMGUS post and generally snappy tone like he has something to hide, but I can't put my finger on it. The thing I can't get my head round is that he brought up eagle4 slipping under the radar on day 2 which seems SO off as a fellow scum, I can understand bussing but yeah that's weird

It's frustrating how Empoof hasn't really tried to defend himself even after being put at L-2. He said he was going to post from yesterday ~ now and I was waiting for him to say stuff but seems that hasnt happened so whatever, I just really don't want to lynch a townie cuz it feels like the thread is more telling than we are looking into it?

LightWolf I'd appreciate if you put a vote on someone because you're kinda analysing everyone but leaving out the actual suspicions!! even if you just quickly skim Spiffy's or aska's posts before the long summary you could let people know your biggest scum read.

I dont like how More Cowbell is basically ignoring the whole empoof aska zorbees thing and just tunneling Metal Sonic, despite how clean people think he is.
 
kinda fucked up that sentence:

"The thing I can't get my head round is that he brought up eagle4 slipping under the radar on day 2, which seems SO off as a fellow scum; I can understand bussing but that's just weird"

as in I am not saying me and aska are fellow scum, rather him and eagle (potentially).
 
Okay, here is what I think of the players that are still left in the game, in order of the player list from the OP:

Shining Latios: SL was my number one scumread at first, but since then this has faded, because more interesting targets came by. He's been pretty inactive as of late (then again, who hasn't) and I don't like that, but in general I'm leaning Town for SL, since he has been contributing since the first days, if only a little.

LightWolf: people have made a fuss about LW being scum in the past, but I never really believed in it. His posts tend to be all over the place, but fact remains that he is adding to the discussion, and the points he makes make sense to me. Town.

Spiffy: was shaky at first, but over the last two days or so I've stopped believing he really is mafia. I am uncertain, though; before, I voiced suspicion of him because of the mud throwing (for lack of a better term) between him and Walrein, and Walrein turning up clean. I don't want to put him in Town yet, so I'll say he's Neutral.

More Cowbell: I am the only one of whom I'm certain is Town. Not much to discuss about that, I guess.

askaninjask: aska has been a bit shaky when it comes to activity, but especially Day 2 was good for him, with him pushing Eagle4 into the spotlights a little (zorbees did that too, more about that) and making helpful posts. His activity has been declining since, sadly, but the posts that he does make are helpful. Neutral-Town.

zorbees: zorbees was my Day 1 lynch target for being ''all over the place'', but since then I've learned that randomly voting a lot is zorbees' playstyle, so there's that. I never had much trouble with him not willing to put Eagle4 at L-1; the fact remains that he was the one who put Eagle4 out there in the first place, which would be very unmafia-like (especially given the fact that Eagle4 was getting no attention at all). Ever since Day 1, his voting pattern has been consistent and behaves in a way that I can agree with, so I think zorbees is Town.

citro: very uncertain here, as there still is little to go by. I never got a scum read off of TPM, and so far citro's submissions don't exactly yell ''scum!'' either. There is not enough to go by yet, so I'm still going to say Neutral, but I think citro is helping out so far.

Empoof: my #2 scum read as of now. The biggest problem about Empoof is the fact that he makes it nearly impossible to read him, simply because he's not posting. He even abstained from posting on Day 2, which could mean that he didn't want to lay ties to others. Anyways, lots of people are asking him things now, and even though he's at L-2, he sticks to himself and doesn't answer questions. This makes me believe he is Scum.

Metal Sonic: well, you all know what I think of MS. I know it would be stupid for a mafia to be so incredibly out there, but I still can't help but feel that this guy has ''SCUM'' written all over him. The incredible push for Walrein's lynch, presenting lynch targets without any explanation, his attempts at being village leader; it all makes me feel he's trying to push the game in the direction the way he wants without actually helping out the village, which would be most ideal for a mafia. In the meantime, everyone believes that he is too 'out there' to be mafia, but I just don't want to buy into it yet. Added to this is the fact that I find his tone incredibly annoying, but that doesn't necessarily make him scum, I know that. Still, #1 Scum for me.


Man, I really hope this game is going to make it to the end, without subs being needed. We can all see how much difficulty citro had catching up and adding to the discussion, and how difficult it is for us to get reads on a new player. Imagine that with three new subs. I really hope we can make it to the end.
 
Votecount 4.9 (UNCHANGED)

Lynch:
Empoof: (3) zorbees Spiffy Metal Sonic L-2
Metal Sonic: (2) More Cowbell Shining Latios
zorbees: (1) Metal Sonic askaninjask
Not Voting: (3) LightWolf, citro, Empoof

Sentry:
Spiffy: (2) zorbees Metal Sonic
Metal Sonic: (1) citro
More Cowbell: (1) More Cowbell
zorbees: (1) LightWolf
Not Voting: (4) Shining Latios, Spiffy, askaninjask, Empoof

With 9 alive it takes 5 to lynch. Deadline is in 24 hours, 10:00 PM GMT (midnight GMT+2).
 
metal sonic said:
I wanted you to post your thoughts on what happened Day 2, and to re-read the parts that you missed, then post your opinion. I hope you can do that in your next post.
Okay I have a few hours to do this, but a lot of my thoughts on what happened Day 2 are listed IN MY READS, as I looked at how everyone acts around Eagle.
Spiffy said:
Empoof did the same thing, please post your thoughts on the [Walrein] lynch as well.
Walrein said himself that he was looking scummy at the time, and a lot of the reasons people were lynching him are why they’re lynching me. Metal Sonic has had some weird behavior around the lynches, and I’m wondering what will happen when I flip town (there is nowhere near the amount of activity from anyone that would get this lynch off of me. That and I fucked myself over with other life stuff), as I’ve noticed people lumping MS and I together with very little pretense, try to note the people that are doing this. The more and more I look at Metal Sonic’s D3/4, the more a bus on Eagle seems to be a good possibility.
Metal Sonic said:
#3 Zorbees, More Cowbell and askaninjask; who is scummier and why? Why aren't the two seem as scum in your eyes? Provide reasoning for and against. Aska has a pretty good pass with bringing up Eagle when he was hardly getting noticed.

#4 Your thoughts on the new sub-in: citro. Compare his play with TPM's, and post a short analysis of 1 paragraph.
#3 my reads are posted in order of my cleanliness of them. Just refer to them. I guess I can c&p them with a little more detail during my D2 reread :/
#4 Citro has been doing alright, I can’t really expect much from him due to there being 30 pages of raw content. It’s just unfortunate that we can’t pressure him the same way as he has different opinions and can’t fully put out the logic of TPM’s posts. There isn't anything glaring out at me though, very neutral when separated from TPM.

LightWolf is doing something really interesting here – he’s labeling me as town while I'm at L-2 (basically -1 with More Cowbell). I want to make really good note of this. This is probably the weirdest thing I’ll say, as I’m arguing against someone who actually “has my back”. I really don’t like some of the logic LW uses to put me as town. It seems like a lot of WIFOM, and my hunch is that he’s trying to buddy up and get labeled as town when I flip. The reasoning for me as his NUMBER 1 TOWN READ is flimsy, as there are other people with better and more concrete interactions with Eagle. I would be okay with him listing me as town, but #1 townie is a stretch. Not to mention LW almost moved the lynch away from a mafian.

Vote LightWolf
If only to try to bring more attention to him. Why are people listing him as town? From what I've seen it's from keeping up with discussion etc, when we could be using better evidence than that. Specifically More Cowbell, I'm surprised that your town read on him is so bland this deep into the game.

If i missed some question or something let me know, but those are miniscule questions to be waiting around for. I've asked everything and posted a rebuttal post earlier D3 addressing everyone's concerns. But I guess the mafia get to twiddle their thumbs as they lynch a townie -_-
 
Your point about LightWolf stands, Empoof, and if you were to flip Town it's definitely something to look at. Added to that is the fact that LightWolf also uses the WIFOM-argument a lot; make a point, but say it may be WIFOM, so it's actually nothing. I must admit to sometimes being guilty to this as well, though LightWolf uses the argument in basically every post he makes. Those posts are usually so big, though, that there is some information besides the WIFOM-argument, which still makes me label LightWolf as town.
 

LightWolf

lightwoof
is a Forum Moderator Alumnus
I will post the spiffy/aska thing sooooooooooooooooon TM. But wanted to reply first.

Empoof I can understand that you think that the argument of Eagle bandwagoning with you in RVS is weak, but then answer me this honestly, do you think, anyone would ever consider voting the same random as his scum buddy right after they did? I honestly do not think people even consider that, they just mentally block the option of voting the same. And a few more things, while you are correct about the, getting your back when you were at L-2, but got the time wrong, I actually did that last day first, this is in no way a new thing. The other thing is Eagle having more concrete interactions with others. Well partially true, but either those are dead (SS and jalmont) or are zorbees who I recently mentioned and as you can see decided to sentry even. Sure I stated I trust you more, but this is only because I could see zorbees throwing Eagle away because he has been too suspicious, though I find it highly unlikely.

As for More Cowbell. I state they are WIFOM, because they are, I'm not trying to sell WIFOMs as facts, but a WIFOM isn't always a clear cut coin toss, sometimes I say it may be WIFOM but I find it to be more likely be leaning one side than the other/s. Also are you kidding me, if Empoof flips town I should be looked at because I could easily be mafia trying to buddy with a villager? Yeah but I just as well could be mafia buddies with him and if he flips mafia you should look at me still. And you know, there are the cases where I could be villager. For talking about WIFOMs you sure missed a big one. I find most things to be WIFOMs, because nearly everything that could make a villager clean, a mafia could try to copy. Say most agreed SS was cleaned after the Eagle lynch, but it could have been a setup by the mafia to decide between two and clear the other. Naturally this is very unlikely, so people ignored this possibility. Ah WIFOMs, my favourite discussion, maybe because I'm a paranoid sissy.
 

LightWolf

lightwoof
is a Forum Moderator Alumnus
Okay so, Spiffy/aska time

Spiffy

Day 1:

Eh what can I say, asks a lot, corrects newbies a lot. Standard play there. Not suspicious, neither cleans him. Nothing to see here that isn't just wifom.

Day 2:

Gets pressured early, then everyone gets off him because he reacts well to the pressure. Plays standard, then I tie the vote and SS votes himself. And Spiffy with his vote free to use, gets to make the decision. Well he reasons that SS did a very town like thing by untying the vote(Will not argue with this, because I can understand why he thinks that). On the other hand, lets assume the situation, where Spiffy decides to save Eagle instead. He'd be the hammer, he'd be a major suspect alongside Eagle. Now sure, I actually thought this was a WIFOM, did he vote Eagle because he was village, or because he was a mafia who thought Eagle was not worth the risk. Alas having reread it, I realised that a third option exist, safer, and more favourable for a possible mafia Spiffy. Simply not voting! He couldn't risk saving Eagle himself, but pseudo hammering Eagle had no actual positive effect for a possible scum Spiffy, the WIFOM I explained above would still be valid. But if he didn't vote, there was a chance no one at all may, and no one would ever connect Spiffy with the lynch. Oh sure what if Spiffy thought of that and decided to hammer because he knew someone would know that he knew they would pick Rock.

Fact is a less risky, and more rewarding option existed for a mafia in that situation, and Spiffy didn't take it. Naturally Spiffy may not have realised it, but honestly I doubt it. WHY DO I FIND TOWN, I'M DOING THIS FOR MAFIA.

Day 3:

A decent percent of his posts are either asking about who x would hammer between Z and Y and stating that SS won't be killed rest being, well just the same. Consistent, I like that, but gives me little to say!

Day 4:

It's freaking day 4, it's like the posts are the water, and the thread became a desert!

End result: The pseudo hammer puts him on the towner side now that I realised the superior option a mafia could have taken in his position. Arguments can exist against it, but not much more likely than zorbees selling out Eagle at the end of day 1.

askaninjask(gimme some scumtells please!):

Day 1:

Very little posted on day 1, honestly all together it surprises me that he got the last two Sentries while having less posts than ME. He did nothing wrong those posts, but I have stated when I tried doing jalmont in the past, too little to go off.

Day 2:

Gets more active and jumps on the I want look into Eagle bandwagon. I was okay with zorbees pointing it out first end of day 1(actually Spiffy also quoted and even earlier post where zorbees throws up Eagle's name the be checked out), but at this point in time, I do not think it can be considered anything but WIFOM, especially when he doesn't actually vote Eagle. Not to mention that perviously he wasn't that vague, if he had a suspicion he went for it hard(well to be correct it was p much spiffy only), why was he avoiding doing the same with Eagle there. Sure not putting a vote I can understand, the Spiffy pressuring was still well under way then, but a person can still attempt to pressure without a vote.(Can't decide if I'm getting too desperate trying to find scum, or I actually have a point... I believe and hope it's the latter)

Spiffy pressuring ends, he votes Eagle now, following the reasoning everyone used, "that" post is suspicious(not saying it isn't, just stating facts). But the first votes happened a while before that, and aska has already posted after the said post, though he did post that he wouldn't have time to post much that night.... Circumstances really don't allow me to consider his Eagle vote as evidence.

After his vote though, he kind of vanishes, two more posts after but for a big time in the end, nothing till after the lynch, a bit less than 3 days difference(who am I to talk about inactivity, but he did hog the sentry, makes it worse!)

Day 3:

His first reply is... explaining how others meant the buddying reasoning for a Walrein lynch to Walrein? I don't know why I find this off, maybe because I expect people to actually make cases at the start of the day? Or is it that he returned so nonchalantly from 2.7 days of absence? Meh

Later he gives a bogus reasoning against zorbees: "One thing that I did find really odd, however, when I looked back through Day 1, was that zorbees switched his random vote from Eagle4 to someone else before Eagle4 ever responded. Eagle4 goes on to completely ignore this post for the remainder of the game until his death. I think that Eagle4 may have thought that he did not need to respond to zorbees's random vote, perhaps because he felt he didn't need to respond to a teammate's pressure... zorbees also is the kind of player who would random vote a teammate first."

Ignoring the whole WIFOM thing, this is about perviously mentioned early day 1 zorbees post. Classic zorbees move, pick a guy who hasn't been discussed, make people check him out. Did it with Spiffy, did it with Eagle(twice with Eagle even). Now the problem here is, that zorbees actually repeated the, look up Eagle post at the end of day 1, which breaks this WIFOM apart, since zorbees had every intention to NOT LET EAGLE GO UNNOTICED.(Minus the case where he is a very evil genius)

And there goes his activity from day 2, I honestly am surprised he got sentry again, when he was hardly as active, especially on a day where the vote was from the get go much closer. Consistence, it matters.

Day 4: Hi my name is Day 4 and I don't know why LightWolf even bothers to write me into his thingies.

End Result: The combination of the tepid attempt at Eagle, general mistrust towards experienced players, 1 case of bogus reasoning, 2 cases of sentry hogging, a dose of lack of sleep and a high hope of aska actually ending up seeming scummy made me lean towards scummy in his case. Hooray. And hooray I finished, I'M FREE(till I make another stupid promise gah)

So yeah, realising the existence of zorbees' much earlier eagle post is good enough to make me get over his experienced status(should have gone over the RVS posts more carefully, should have learned my lesson already when I found the Empoof+Eagle voting from it, third time's the charm)

Well things didn't change. citro gave me no good enough reason to not let him live till we can hear stuff from him. SL didn't post much, which while doesn't help himself or the vilage, I doubt it'd help me to get him lynched finally. So congrats aska, you get my vote. Vote askaninjask

Do point out if it feels I cut of somewhere, or it like makes no sense, I swear I could have deleted half of a paragraph once, but then couldn't find anything missing... Or senseless typos like "right" instead of "risk" like what the fuck...
 

Metal Sonic

Resurgence
is a Tutor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus
Tsk.... I really can't tell if Empoof is scum or town. On one hand, he is avoiding my questions and giving really nasty 1 liner replies, which could mean scum avoiding questions. On another hand, he could just be a villager town being really really lazy and unhelpful.

My normal procedure in such cases is to leave the target be for until he plays a scumslip; which then we will lynch him for real.


As of this moment, Unvote empoof


Unfortunately, this means that we will not have a lynch target for the day. Therefore, the next target we should can look at, is askaninjask.

His last post, which I pointed out, was extremely jarring. Couple that with the insights gained from the re-reads on previous days thanks to Lightwolf, and I believe there is a somewhat solid case against him. Besides, the fact is that he has not been formally pressured in this game at all, so lets put him on the check.

Vote askaninjask

#1 You have been seemingly posting less, yet meeting the borderline minimum not to be suspected like Empoof and TPM. Your posting rate dropped considerably, making you possible of a lurking scum. What do you have to say for yourself?

#2 Your Spiffy attack Day 2, was inherently aggressive, and wasn't actually scummy. However, when added on to extra evidence as shown in the post before, it is correctly described by citro(thanks!), snappy, with something to hide. The reason why I did not explicitly give my reasoning for that previously was to prepare a case just in case something further happens, and also to give myself more time to analyse it. I will put it in plain words: It is snappy, impatient, angry that someone has found a weak spot in your guise and that is also similar to the death scum posts which Eagle did Day 2. The part that confuses me, was that you weren't even in hard pressure at that time!

"What can I say to that? That you're wrong?" Isn't really... convincing.



There is only 24 hours left.

To the others, please feel free to lynch either Empoof or askaninjask at day's end, based on his response
 
Votecount 4.10

Lynch:
askaninjask: (2) LightWolf Metal Sonic L-3
Metal Sonic: (2) More Cowbell Shining Latios L-3
Empoof: (2) zorbees Spiffy Metal Sonic L-3
LightWolf: (1) Empoof
zorbees: (1) Metal Sonic askaninjask
Not Voting: (1) citro

Sentry:
Spiffy: (2) zorbees Metal Sonic
Metal Sonic: (1) citro
More Cowbell: (1) More Cowbell
zorbees: (1) LightWolf
Not Voting: (4) Shining Latios, Spiffy, askaninjask, Empoof

With 9 alive it takes 5 to lynch. Deadline is in 12 hours, 10:00 PM GMT (midnight GMT+2).
 
Sorry can't post a lot now, and sorry for recent inactivity
Unvote Empoof
Vote askaninjask

I stated before that I think both are scum. Can we please have another vote on him so he doesn't tie it?
 

Metal Sonic

Resurgence
is a Tutor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus
honestly idk the sentry

sentry me or spiffy

sentry metal sonic


askaninjask at L-1

Since he's an experienced player, he should know what to do with his defense(open ended question)

Save your ass.
 
Votecount 4.11

Lynch:
askaninjask: (4) LightWolf Metal Sonic Spiffy zorbees L-1
Metal Sonic: (2) More Cowbell Shining Latios L-3
Empoof: (0) zorbees Spiffy Metal Sonic
LightWolf: (1) Empoof
zorbees: (1) Metal Sonic askaninjask
Not Voting: (1) citro

Sentry:
Metal Sonic: (2) citro Metal Sonic
Spiffy: (1) zorbees Metal Sonic
More Cowbell: (1) More Cowbell
zorbees: (1) LightWolf
Not Voting: (4) Shining Latios, Spiffy, askaninjask, Empoof

With 9 alive it takes 5 to lynch. Deadline is in 5 hours and 36 minutes, 10:00 PM GMT (midnight GMT+2).
 
Looks like I'm going to be able to be online around deadline today, so that's a good thing. I was hoping to see some responses from either askaninjask or Empoof, as they are the two under fire right now, and people had left some questions, but no luck there. Also, citro, who will you be voting for?
 
Votecount 4.12

Lynch:
askaninjask: (4) LightWolf Metal Sonic Spiffy zorbees L-1
Metal Sonic: (2) More Cowbell Shining Latios L-3
Empoof: (0) zorbees Spiffy Metal Sonic
LightWolf: (1) Empoof
zorbees: (1) Metal Sonic askaninjask
Not Voting: (1) citro

Sentry:
Metal Sonic: (2) citro Metal Sonic
Spiffy: (2) zorbees Metal Sonic Spiffy
More Cowbell: (1) More Cowbell
zorbees: (1) LightWolf
Not Voting: (3) Shining Latios, askaninjask, Empoof

With 9 alive it takes 5 to lynch. Deadline is in 1 hours and 28 minutes, 10:00 PM GMT (midnight GMT+2).
 
Before this massive change of heart by all of the biggest players I had my suspicions about askaninjask, he was looking pretty scummy cuz of reasons I and others already mentioned (bad posting etc). However I'm feeling really suspicious of this massive aska bandwagon and just taking all the heat off Empoof, because the same kind of thing nearly happened with the Eagle lynch so yeah!! it's very possible one of the current aska voters is scum following to try to clean themselves and that is sad :[

I would vote askaninjask but I'm obviously still waiting for him to reply and there's no point hammering when there's what, 1 hour left. I hope he DOES come on in time to make a post because it'd be handy to see what he thought if he flips villager
 
Votecount 4.13 - END

Lynch:
askaninjask: (4) LightWolf Metal Sonic Spiffy zorbees L-1
Metal Sonic: (2) More Cowbell Shining Latios L-3
LightWolf: (1) Empoof
zorbees: (1) Metal Sonic askaninjask
Empoof: (0) zorbees Spiffy Metal Sonic
Not Voting: (1) citro

Sentry:
Spiffy: (3) zorbees Metal Sonic Spiffy More Cowbell
Metal Sonic: (2) citro Metal Sonic
zorbees: (1) LightWolf
More Cowbell: (0) More Cowbell
Not Voting: (3) Shining Latios, askaninjask, Empoof

~*~

You tie up Empoof to be fed to Pit God for the majority of the day, only to throw askaninjask off the pit instead. A random decision, but one that seems to have paid off.

askaninjask was Insane.

You also made Spiffy the mandatory protector. He will not die tonight.

~*~

Deadline for Night 4 is 24 hours, as usual.
 

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