Theorymon Discussion and Viability Ranking

Prankster Gengar seems like a very cool idea! Although if it got Prankster I still don't think Levitate would be obsolete. One of Gengar's primary niches in the current metagame is being able to check Special Landorus which Prankster would get rid of.. but Prankster is such a great ability in its own right. Priority SubDisable, Will-o-Wisp, Destiny Bond, etc. would make its support options comparable or even better than Thundurus's. Having Levitate still as an option would create fun scenarios as well since people won't be as eager to Earthquake you. I would be interested in seeing this become a reality!
 
Anyways, OU is limited to 2 ghost types. One who is defensively frail as the "average smogon user irl", and another who is really good defensively, Jellicent, which has access to recover.

I disagree. It's not that only 2 Ghosts can exist in OU-- it's just that there are only 2 ghosts that really make the cut in typing, stats, movepool, etc.

It's that Gengar and Jellicent are good (or better) than the others, not that there are only 2 possible ghost niches.


For instance...


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What if Rotom was given another Rotom-A forme, DPPt style?
(AKA Rotom-A Stats, Ghost / Electric Typing)



Rotom-A's stats, typing, and movepool are awesome. I believe most DPPt players who still play BW, will attest that Rotom-A is the greatest spin blocker in the history of Pokemon. Foretress can't touch it. Starmie and Tentacruel are zapped to death by it. Donphan? Claydol? Hitmontop? None of these can touch Rotom-A. It also out-speeds and W-o-W's any pursuit users except Weavile, who can't check mate Rotom-A without Night Slash.

Even without the coverage granted by its various elemental attacks, Rotom-A would be a defining force of the meta. Its bulk and resistances differentiating it from Gengar, and the great coverage and offensive power to be found just in its STABs differentiating it from Jellicent.

-Levitate makes it immune to Spikes and T-Spikes while being Neutral to SR. This gives it great survivability.

-Great base stat spread-- enough speed to get ahead of most defensive pokes, enough bulk to be a full on defensive poke, or a reasonably bulky offensive one, AND enough power to be a real threat.

-Great abuse of status in W-o-W, and Thunderwave / Discharge

-A unique typing gave it key resistances to use against important DPPt threats like Scizor, Metagross, and Zapdos. Even in BW, Rotom-A's Ghost/Electric typing's ability to take on threats like Thundurus-T, Tornadus-I, and the still ubiquitous Scizor would be extremely useful.


While you could go on forever about Rotom-A's strengths, I don't believe its introduction into the metagame would eliminate Jellicent's usefulness. Jellicent's typing grants it its own unique advantages. Its superior bulk and access to Recover makes it far more durable as a wall. Jellicent however, does not provide nearly as much pressure on the opponent, and can be turned into setup bait more easily than Rotom-A. For teams that want a slightly more offensive approach, Rotom-A will step in. Jellicent though, will keep its strong popularity.

Rotom-A definitely won't hoiste Gengar either. Gengar's far greater Speed is tremendous, and its ability to abuse Substitutes and smash through basically anything given the slightest leeway, makes it a totally different threat. For teams that want to keep some of that offensive threat in a spinner, but get more switch-in ability and nice resistances, will go with Rotom-A.
 
I don't think the metagame is ready or deserving of such an amazing spin blocker, odds are that in gen 5 it would just be tossed on some custap spike stacking hyper offense team. I don't have anything against those kind of teams, but I don't think they need any more help.
 
Ya know, it's actually fairly hard to find good stuff that's doesn't seem totally obvious. When I looked at the list I mostly found pokemon that didn't need moves or abilities but rather a different type (Arcanine Fire/Fighting. It would be a good day :D) or different stats or simply just overshadowed with no hope of ever getting out of said shadow. It was certainly difficult finding something that would be really cool. But I think I found one.

I was looking through the pokemon types to see if I could find something to work with when I noticed Armaldo. It had fairly standard stats for a rock type pokemon. High ATK and DEF and low Sp. Def and Speed It's Typing was kinda bad but it didn't have any particularly glaring weaknesses apart from Stealth Rock. It's movepool was below average but still workable with access to fairly powerful stab attacks and quake/edge with Stab on stone edge. Then I noticed it's swift swim ability. It was ok. It fit Armaldo in some weird way but it's probably be cool if it had the Sand Rush Ability.

So what if Armaldo had Sand Rush as it's ability?

Well for starters it's Spd would be awesome. 414 Speed is just below base 140. It'd be faster than the entire OU metagame. It's Sp. Def would be increased as well (In the sand). With would actually give it fairly balanced stats. It has access to Swords Dance so it would be a fine set up sweeper. It'd just be a very Excadrill esque pokemon except without the cool steel typing and a stealth rock weakness.
 
Wow guys, you are replying so much! I'll comment on some of your question, but before that ill do one on my own.

What if stoutland got head charge?

Everyone that used stoutland noticed that it has no good stab moves.. yes there is return but its considerably weak. Head charge has 120 base power and has a little recoil ( 25% of the hp of the opponent) which can be a problem but calcs says that head charge is needed to get more kos, such as:

252+ Atk Choice Band Stoutland Return vs. 252 HP / 4+ Def Hippowdon: 180-213 (42.85 - 50.71%) -- 3.91% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock

252+ Atk Choice Band Stoutland Head Charge vs. 252 HP / 4+ Def Hippowdon: 211-250 (50.23 - 59.52%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

252+ Atk Choice Band Stoutland Head Charge vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Latias: 294-346 (97.35 - 114.56%) -- 81.25% chance to OHKO

252+ Atk Choice Band Stoutland Return vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Latias: 250-295 (82.78 - 97.68%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Not a big change, but it will make stoutland a little stronger while losing some hp everytime it attacks.
 
^How the hell is a 100 acc 104 base power STAB attack bad? It's better than Earthquake.
Stoutland's STAB attacks are plenty strong from my experience.

Rock would DIE to have that. As would Dark. Speaking of which...



The quakes caused when it walks make even great mountains crumble and change the surrounding terrain.



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SHEER FORCE

Sheer Force just makes way more sense on Tyranitar than Unnerve (in Japanese too, so don't worry). Tyranitar is just the type of Poke to force just about anything-- it's a fucking godzilla lizard. Plus it's got THE MOVEPOOL. BOTH of TTar's STABs benefit from Sheer Force, amping its accuracy with Rock Slide > Stone Fail, and boosting Crunch's power. Ttar also has a massive Special move pool to use it with too! (Like Nidoking) and has the Special attack to make it work.

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Sheer Force
Adamant
180 HP / 252 Atk / 76 Spe
@Life Orb
I REALLY want Hippo Support!
-Crunch
-Rock Slide
-Superpower
-Pursuit / Fire Punch

252+ Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Tyranitar Crunch vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Hippowdon: 214-253 (50.95 - 60.23%) -- 88.28% chance to 2HKO


252+ Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Tyranitar Ice Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Hippowdon: 203-239 (48.33 - 56.9%) -- 36.33% chance to 2HKO


252+ Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Tyranitar Fire Punch vs. 224 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 177-211 (54.12 - 64.52%) -- guaranteed 2HKO




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Sheer Force
Naughty
180 HP 252 SpA 76 Spe
@Life Orb
-Crunch / Rock Slide
-Ice Beam / Rock Slide
-Thunderbolt
-Fire Blast / Earth Power

252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Tyranitar Thunderbolt vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Keldeo: 309-367 (95.37 - 113.27%) -- 75% chance to OHKO

252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Tyranitar Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Politoed: 283-335 (73.69 - 87.23%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Tyranitar Earth Power vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Terrakion: 294-346 (90.74 - 106.79%) -- 43.75% chance to OHKO

252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Tyranitar Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 168 SpD Ferrothorn in rain: 270-322 (76.7 - 91.47%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

0+ Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Tyranitar Crunch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Celebi: 413-486 (102.22 - 120.29%) -- guaranteed OHKO

0+ Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Tyranitar Rock Slide vs. 56 HP / 0- Def Kyurem-B: 432-510 (106.66 - 125.92%) -- guaranteed OHKO



... this thing REALLY wants Psychic.
 
I disagree. It's not that only 2 Ghosts can exist in OU-- it's just that there are only 2 ghosts that really make the cut in typing, stats, movepool, etc.
I was saying that it is limited to 2 Ghosts that are good. In other words, there are only 2 Ghost-types that are good, limiting the type in OU; not that there are only 2 spots for Ghost-types in OU. Sorry, what I said was probably a bit confusing.
 
What if Landorus-T got Acrobatics?

Now, Landorus-T hits like a truck. Flying Gem + Acrobatics Landorus is soooo powerful.

252+ Atk Flying Gem Landorus-T Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Hippowdon: 205-243 (48.8 - 57.85%) -- 53.52% chance to 2HKO

Combine that with EQ, ansd you got a monster. Then you can run SD, RP, BU, whatev or even Double Booster and screw the whole metagame.
 
SubSD Acrobatics Landorus-T would be SO FREAKING AMAZING! A flying STAB we could work with :)

I wish nintendo gave it to him :[
 
SubSD Acrobatics Landorus-T would be SO FREAKING AMAZING! A flying STAB we could work with :)

I wish nintendo gave it to him :[

I sure don't. Let's take the already mega-overpowered Landorus and give him a better and stronger STAB move. That would be even more game-breaking.
 
What if Starmie got Flamethrower / Fire Blast?

A bit of odd hypothetical that surfaced up in Ruins of Alph a while ago. While it might sound odd, a few Water-types can learn those moves: Gyarados, Slowbro and Slowking, and Octillery. So its not beyond the realm of possibility.

So how would this effect Starmie? While Forretress and Scizor have no business staying in on Starmie, the ever common Ferrothorn it now fried:

252 SpA Life Orb Starmie Flamethrower vs. 252 HP / 168 SpD Ferrothorn: 343-406 (97.44 - 115.34%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
even in the rain it is 2HKOed
252 SpA Life Orb Starmie Flamethrower vs. 252 HP / 168 SpD Ferrothorn in rain: 172-203 (48.86 - 57.67%) -- 91.8% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock

Outside of Ferrothorn though, it would have stiff competition for a slot, further pushing Starmie's 4MSS. It would have some great use on Drought teams though.
 
Landorus-T isn't overpowered. He mentioned only the therian, not his brother. I'm sure it's possible for Nintendo to give only a single form access to a specific move, but then I guess you could change the form back. It could be like the Rotom Formes though, where removing the form removes the attack. Nintendo could've done it. Maybe given Torn-T and Thundy-T other moves too (Roost and, well, Roost respectively).
 
So way back in my days making fakemon at the beginning of my art thread, I came up with an idea for a defensive Fire / Flying bird that was immune to Fire- and Rock- attacks, since it was like a lava God / Spirit. Playing with the idea, I realized Fire / Flying would be an incredible typing if you throw in that Rock Immunity.


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+ Rock Immunity Ability (Molten Body?)
(Immune to Stealth Rock and Rock-type Attacks)

Sure, covering a Poke's big weakness with an ability is kind of lame-- but there are pokes who do this! (Weezing, Rotom, Bronzong, Gengar, etc.), and I promise that THIS example would do something REALLY special.

Immune:
rock.gif
ground.gif

Resistance (x.25):
bug.gif
grass.gif

Resistance (x.5):
fire.gif
fighting.gif
steel.gif

Weaknesses (x2):
electric.gif
water.gif


One thing you'll notice is that Moltres now has almost perfectly fit resistances to major physical attacking types. Rock, Fighting, and Ground are used by almost every physical attacker, and added resistances to Steel and Bug completely blocks out Scizor and Ferrothorn (and metagross...). Resistances to Fire- and Grass are icing on the cake, and are relevant against special attackers and some niche sun physical attackers like Darmanitan and Sawsbuck. Grass resist also ensures Breloom (and Virizion) are properly put in their place.

Furthermore, Moltres ends up with only 2 weakness, both 2x, and both mainly special. Honestly, this reminds me a lot of Skarmory! But with a different mix of resistances, lower (but more balanced) bulk, but a lot more speed and offensive power.

But let's see how Moltres's defensive type works in practice against top offensive threats.

Scizor: Scizor is completely shut down. Steel, Bug, Fighting-- Moltres resists it all, completely shutting Scizor down. Moltres can kill scizor just by breathing on it.

Tyranitar: Tyranitar is almost flawlessly shut down. Immune to Stone Edge and Earthquake, as well as resisting Fire Blast and Superpower, Crunch is TTar's only attack that can touch Moltres (unless it uses Aqua Tail or it rarer special attacks). A Will-o-Wisp or Toxic set (or HP Fighting) would bring TTar to its knees.

Breloom: Moltres has 4x resist to Grass, 2x to Fighting, and is immune to Stone Edge. Moltres's stab attacks all one shot breloom.

Landorus-T: Moltres brings Landorus-T to its knees. Being immune to both Stone Edge and Earthquake, resisting Superpower and U-Turn, the only attack Landorus-T ever carries that can hit Moltres non-resisted is HP Ice. lol Gravity would be the only issue.

Landorus-I: Moltres is immune to Earth Power and Focus Blast and will take laughable damage from HP Ice. Without Psychic or Sludge Bomb, special attacking Landorus can't do crap. Moltres also resists everything the physical set can try. Gravity is Landorus-I's only out here.

Terrakion: Moltres is immune to Stone Edge, resists Close Combat, and also laughs at EQ and X-Scissor. Terrak is completely walled, and blasted away with Hurricane or whittled down with Toxic/W-o-W.

Mamoswine: Can hurt Moltres IF it has Icicle Crash, and hits moltres on the switch. Moltres will shrug off Ice Shard with ease, resist any non-ice attack, and blast Mamoswine to bits.

Volcarona: Is flawlessly walled by Moltres, barring Hurricane or HP Water or Electric. lol Moltres would destroy Volc with its own Hurricane

Venusaur: Used Sleep Powder already? Too bad. Moltres resists every attack Venusaur can use except for Sludge Bomb and HP Ice.

Lucario: Can hurt Moltres with ExtremeSpeed if it gets set up, but that's about it.

Conkuldurr: Can only really hurt Moltres with Thunderpunch...

Infernape: Close Combat? Flare Blitz/Fire Blast? Stone Edge? HP Ice? Grass Knot? lol... maybe try Thunderpunch bro.

Moltress would also flawlessly wall: Hippowdon, Gliscor, Metagross, Ferrothorn, Forretress, Donphan, Dugtrio, Weavile, Heracross, Darmanitan, Virizion, Cobalion, Durant and more. Even Blaziken, Excadrill, and Groudon have a hard time hitting Moltres.

252+ Atk Life Orb Groudon Dragon Claw vs. 248 HP / 32 Def Moltres: 147-173 (38.38 - 45.16%) -- guaranteed 3HKO


In fact the ONLY physical attackers that can effectively hit Moltres are Dragon-, Normal- and Water-types (Gyarados, Garchomp, Kyurem-B, Feraligatr, Haxorus, etc.)


All of this on a Pokemon that IMMUNE to Spikes, Toxic Spikes, AND STEALTH ROCK (and maybe sand too? Sand Storm is a rock type move)


Moltres would be an incredible defensive asset to any team it was put on (even without ANY defensive EVs...)-- especially with sets with lots of bulk and built to abuse its resistances (Roost, sub, status)-- BUT this defensive prowess would make Moltres's offense all the more deadly! Hurricane and Fire Blast would allow moltres to thrive in both Sun, and Rain.

Moltres has been proven to be a great offensive anti-meta asset in the right hands, held down only by its poor Speed and SR weaknesses. With a Rock-immunity, it would become a flawless switch-in to most physical attackers, and freedom from SR. Moltres's potential would explode~
 
tbh I feel like Rock-immune Moltres is pushing towards broken. SR-immune Moltres is good enough, imo, and it still handles 80% of that list. Being untouchable by Tyranitar / Lando / Terrakion etc as well feels like too much, especially when it also has that great offensive potential. Not to mention it would fit flawlessly in every weather.
 
^All of those Pokemon except Venusaur and Scizor learn Stone Edge, and Volc can definitely benefit from HP Rock. What are you talking about? With a 4x Rock weakness, Moltres can't really switch reliably into much of anything of note. Furthermore that hole in its defensive type makes its poor speed an incredible handicap.

Immunity against Rock makes it a decisive physical wall/tank-- with threats it securely walls, alleviating the need to have great Speed. SR immune Moltres would still be a niche threat, and check to a handful of key threats.

It's slow Speed and decidedly average base defensive stats would be enough to keep it in check-- and it has many checks as well as a full-stop counter in Rotom-W (and Rotom-H if you're cool like that).

I just wanted to highlight that Rock-immune moltres would be amazing. Not every Poke can improve that much just by taking away 1 of its weaknesses you know.
 
I'm saying that if Moltres walls all of the threats you listed, without giving them a chance to specialise to defend themselves, it's broken. My 80% number was badly explained - I was referring to the threats which didn't have to specifically include Rock coverage which they otherwise often wouldn't. I really don't see the need for it to wall almost every physical attacker out there. Moltres still handles a gargantuan number of threats without its SR weakness, more than virtually any other defensive Pokémon.
 
^Skarmory DID wall EVERY physical attacker in ADV (essentially)-- a far greater number of threats than Rock Immune Moltres would. And a lot of people are of the opinion that ADV was a better metagame than DPPt/BW. Also we don't even have to go into how Blissey and even Snorlax used to wall special attackers.


Besides, lacking a Dragon (and Normal) resistance and 90/90 bulk would solidly prevent Moltres from being an end-all physical wall. Essentially, Moltres would be no-where near as solid a physical wall as ADV Skarmory.

Rock-immune Moltres would promote stall by blocking a number of key fast sweepers, and with its massive Special, promote things like Sp.Defensive Rotom, Heatran, and Blissey-- and maybe Thunderbolt Tyranitar. lol
 
Don't get me wrong, I'd love a Rock-immune Moltres to exist, but you have to admit that it'd be a pretty massive step up from even Landorus-T. The lack of raw defences only really cost it against physical Dragons; being immune to hazards, having Roost and that godly typing would get it banned very quickly, even if in an ideal metagame (e.g. one which doesn't revolve around offense), it would just be a top-tier defensive mon.

Anyway; What if Shaymin's Seed Flare had a 100% SpDef drop?

Shaymin is pretty outclassed at the moment in OU by Celebi and even Virizion, having only the lack of a Pursuit weakness over the former, and Natural Cure and better physical bulk over the latter. However, the rise of Lando-I, and corresponding popularity of Pursuit trapping, does give it a niche as a solid offensive Lando counter. Unfortunately, even though it can come in relatively easily against Sand and Rain teams, Shaymin often struggles to do anything.

Enter upgraded Seed Flare. An 85% chance (factoring accuracy) to lower the opponent's Special Defense by 2 stages is pretty scary. With it, Shaymin's list of safe switch-ins shrinks to approximately zero; even better, very little can both outspeed and OHKO it. This upgrade wouldn't be enough to break Shaymin, but it would make it a scary wallbreaker and skyrocket its usage (especially on balanced Sand teams).

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Shaymin @ Leftovers
Timid Nature, 224 HP / 188 SpA / 96 Spe
- Seed Flare
- Earth Power
- Hidden Power (Fire) / Rest
- Rest / Air Slash / HP Ice
 
you guys are getting carried away here. Don't introduce non-existing abilities or move mechanics into the theorymon discussion please. Let's "keep it real."

EDIT: check out how the other Theorymon threads are run for a better picture of this project's purpose
 
What if Milotic got Multiscale

I'd really see this thing getting more use. It could tank and retaliate and recover to go back or just go around killing stuff with its great coverage when the opponent uses a move that breaks Multiscale. Ex. Garchomp uses dragon claw then dies to Ice beam. Milotic recovers and comes back in.
 
Multi-scale milotic would be really cool-- and that works fantastically from a flavor standpoint too!

Only issue I see Milotic having is still not contributing much. In DPPt, Milotic dropped rank because it didn't really have anything to contribute to a team's strategy other than sitting there-- Tent/Starmie brought Spin, Vappy brought Wish, Swampert brought SR (and Roar), and Suicune set up CM until it was even more blue in the face. Milotic was bulky and had Recover, but didn't really do anything except throw out more STAB surfs.

Things haven't really changed for Milotic since then. Scald makes it a bit more scary, but makes it complete fodder to the even more common Celebi and Roserade. Ferrothorn hates burn, but it's not going to stop it from switching in and setting up all over Milotic. Meanwhile Milotic still doesn't have much in the way to help forward a team's goals. At least Milotic got Dragon Tail though... Spreading Toxic / Burn and using Phazing are all it can really do, but that's at least something.

Milotic would have fantastic survivability, but overall I think people still wouldn't have a solid idea of WHY it was going on their teams.
 
What if Deoxys was unbanned

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I don't think Deoxys would make a huge splash in the metagame the way Attack, Defense, and Speed variants did. Unlike the latter two, Deoxys aint setting up multiple hazards or screens with overall defenses worse than Alakazam. Unlike Deoxys-A, it's also hitting 15% less harder, which is a significant difference. A Pokemon that takes 85% from a move from Deoxys will die to that same move coming from a Deoxys-A. This difference in kill / no-kill is crucial for a glasscannon Pokemon like Deoxys, who cannot afford to tank a retaliatory hit from the surviving mon.

To illustrate the difference in power, many stage 1 suspect voters explained how Rash LO Deoxys-A will 2HKO Scizor after SR damage with Psycho Boost + ExtremeSpeed 100% of the time. Deoxys can't accomplish that with its reduced power.

It's not like Deoxys's nuking power is unfounded in OU - we have Kyurem-B with base 170 Atk spamming Outrage! Keldeo's Rain-boosted Hydro Pump or Darmanitan's Sun-boosted Flare Blitz are doing more damage than Deoxys. Not to mention Psychic is such a horrible offensive typing. To me, Deoxys is simply an Alakazam without Magic Guard on steroids, which wont break OU.

I can see most people draw their attention on Deoxys's 150 base Speed, but to me that's a fair trade-off for it's paper-thin bulk. It's not even THAT fast - it's certainly not breaking speed tiers like the way Excadrill or Deoxys-S did, the latter being faster than Scarf Garchomp! That's ridiculous Speed, and combine that with their power and bulk, you can see why they were banned. Deoxys, in the other hand, is revenge-killed by Scarf Rotom-W. Basically, Deoxys aint outgunning things that Jolteon can't.

Do you guys believe Deoxys in OU would be "too much?" I believe most Pokemon were turned uber due to the combination of Speed, power, and bulk (see Excadrill and Deoxys-S). Deoxys has great offense, no doubt, but not absurd offense like Deoxys-A that can 2HKO Scizor at max health with only SR support. It's reliance on moves like Psycho Boost and Superpower, which lowers its offenses, also makes it much harder to outright clean teams from the get-go. It has excellent Speed, but doesn't break Speed tiers, since any moderately fast Scarfer beats it (not to mention strong priority can pick it off after SR + LO recoils). As for bulk, it has none.

I believe Deoxys would make nominal impact if it were to be re-introduced in OU, and I'm a bit annoyed that it was lumped together with Deoxys-A (that's literally analagous to lumping Latios and Latias together as one Pokemon). If the minitour Joeyboy hosted that re-introduced Deoxys in OU taught me anything, it's that Deoxys is really overhyped, and shouldn't have been banned in the first place (I was essentially playing 5-6 in these games, since Deoxys contributed 0 defensively, unlike comparable nukes like Kyurem-B, while its offenses at times failed to break the opponent's defensive core x_x)
 
What if Deoxys was unbanned

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I don't think Deoxys would make a huge splash in the metagame the way Attack, Defense, and Speed variants did. Unlike the latter two, Deoxys aint setting up multiple hazards or screens with overall defenses worse than Alakazam. Unlike Deoxys-A, it's also hitting 15% less harder, which is a significant difference. A Pokemon that takes 85% from a move from Deoxys will die to that same move coming from a Deoxys-A. This difference in kill / no-kill is crucial for a glasscannon Pokemon like Deoxys, who cannot afford to tank a retaliatory hit from the surviving mon.

To illustrate Deoxys-A's raw power, many stage 1 suspect voters explained how Rash LO Deoxys-A will 2HKO Scizor after SR damage with Psycho Boost + ExtremeSpeed 100% of the time. Deoxys can't accomplish that with its reduced power.

It's not like Deoxys's nuking power is unfounded in OU - we have Kyurem-B with base 170 Atk! Keldeo's Rain-boosted Hydro Pump or Darmanitan's Sun-boosted Flare Blitz are doing more damage than Deoxys. Not to mention Psychic is such a horrible offensive typing. To me, Deoxys is simply an Alakazam without Magic Guard on steroids, which wont break OU.

I can see most people draw their attention on Deoxys's 150 base Speed, but to me that's a fair trade-off for it's paper-thin bulk. It's not even THAT fast - it's certainly not breaking speed tiers like the way Excadrill or Deoxys-S did, the latter being faster than Scarf Garchomp! That's ridiculous Speed, and combine that with their power and bulk, you can see why they were banned. Deoxys, in the other hand, is revenge-killed by Scarf Rotom-W. Basically, Deoxys aint outgunning things that Jolteon can't.

Do you guys believe Deoxys in OU would be "too much?" I believe most Pokemon were turned uber due to the combination of Speed, power, and bulk (see Excadrill and Deoxys-S). Deoxys has great offense, no doubt, but not absurd offense like Deoxys-A that can 2HKO Scizor at max health with only SR support. It's reliance on moves like Psycho Boost and Superpower, which lowers its offenses, also makes it much harder to outright clean teams from the get-go. It has excellent Speed, but doesn't break Speed tiers, since any moderately fast Scarfer beats it (not to mention strong priority can pick it off after SR + LO recoils). As for bulk, it has none.

I believe Deoxys would make nominal impact if it were to be re-introduced in OU, and I'm a bit annoyed that it was lumped together with Deoxys-A (that's literally analagous to lumping Latios and Latias together as one Pokemon). If the minitour Joeyboy hosted that re-introduced Deoxys in OU taught me anything, it's that Deoxys is really overhyped, and shouldn't have been banned in the first place (I was essentially playing 5-6 in these games, since Deoxys contributed 0 defensively, unlike comparable nukes like Kyurem-B, while its offenses at times failed to break the opponent's defensive core x_x)

Things like Deoxys-A would rupture OU completely. With proper coverage, the thing could pull 6-0s out of its ass.
I don't think Deoxys-D was Uber worthy, but the others surely belong in the realm of Ubers imo.

Pocket EDIT: I am talking about Deoxys, not Deoxys-A
 
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