Unified Diff of Smogon's OU vs Shoddy's 42 most popular

Dragontamer

Hmm, I did not notice this. However, we now have a very accurate way of actually debating the OU list.

http://shoddybattle.com/stats

What I did: I took the top 42 pokemon (there are currently 42 OU pokemon on the OU list) and created a new file with those guys listed in alphabetical order. I then ran the following line in Linux:

diff -U 30 lst lst2

lst is the current OU pokemon. lst2 are the top 42 pokemon on Shoddy.

The file had a few contradictions. So I resolved them manually. (like Porygon-Z in Smogon OU vs porygonz in Shoddy) Also, I removed some unnecessary information.

This is the output:

-Aerodactyl
+Abomasnow
Azelf
Blissey
Breloom
Bronzong
-Celebi
Cresselia
Donphan
Dragonite
-Dugtrio
Dusknoir
Electivire
Forretress
Garchomp
Gengar
Gliscor
Gyarados
Heatran
Heracross
Hippowdon
Infernape
Jirachi
+Jolteon
Lucario
Machamp
Magnezone
+Mamoswine
Metagross
-Rhyperior
+Milotic
Porygonz
Salamence
+Scizor
Skarmory
-Slowbro
+Snorlax
+Spiritomb
Starmie
-Suicune
Swampert
-Tangrowth
Togekiss
Tyranitar
+Umbreon
Vaporeon
Weavile
Weezing
Yanmega
-Zapdos
Click to expand...
Top 42 on Shoddy Battle not in OU:
+Abomasnow (#40)
+Jolteon (#36)
+Mamoswine (#35)
+Milotic (#38)
+Scizor (#25 !!)
+Snorlax (#31)
+Spiritomb (#39)
+Umbreon (#41)

OU Pokemon not in the top 42 in Shoddy.
-Aerodactyl (#60)
-Celebi (#66)
-Dugtrio (#62)
-Rhyperior (#56)
-Slowbro (#58)
-Suicune (#45)
-Tangrowth (#50)
-Zapdos (#47)

WTF? UU Pokemon o.O
Tentacruel (#54)
Clefable(#65)
Froslass(#53)

Discussion anyone?

EDIT: Putting in popularity marks of each pokemon.

EDIT2: WTF? Popular UU pokemon.
 
Well I completely agree with Rhyperior. That thing's usage has plummeted so much since now people realize that even with Solid Rock, it still can't take Water/Grass hits if its life depended on it, unless it's in a sandstorm, and only in a sandstorm.

Abomasnows are incredibly annoying, and I see them quite a bit. Scizor has been rising in usage heavily both in Smogon and on general Shoddybattle since people have realized that it's an amazing baton passer and that it has the most deadly U-Turn in the game.

Spiritombs are everywhere in my experience, they're annoying too. -.-

For Dugtrio, I use him a lot, but I honestly never ever see him used against me, I'm not sure what's up with that though, it's pretty much the best physical revenge killer in the game.
 
Not that surprising I guess... the game was unstable enough when the original list was made that it's to be expected that there would be changes... I'm kinda surprised it didn't change more than it did, really. A lot of the stuff on the original list were there more for regards to power than usage even though that's not what the tier is supposed to be for anyway (Celebi, Suicune, Zapdos)... the only ones that kinda surprise me are Tangrowth and Umbreon.



I really like seeing Abomasnow and Walrein up there though, Hail didn't get nearly as much attention as it should have right at the beginning there but it's cool to see them getting so much love now.


EDIT: Also I am so amused by Tentacruel seeing use :D look OUT guys he's not just infesting every water route in every pokemon game every three tiles anymore...

EDIT2: I probably could have fit in five or six more ...
 
Bologo said:
Well I completely agree with Rhyperior. That thing's usage has plummeted so much since now people realize that even with Solid Rock, it still can't take Water/Grass hits if its life depended on it, unless it's in a sandstorm, and only in a sandstorm.

Abomasnows are incredibly annoying, and I see them quite a bit. Scizor has been rising in usage heavily both in Smogon and on general Shoddybattle since people have realized that it's an amazing baton passer and that it has the most deadly U-Turn in the game.

Spiritombs are everywhere in my experience, they're annoying too. -.-

For Dugtrio, I use him a lot, but I honestly never ever see him used against me, I'm not sure what's up with that though, it's pretty much the best physical revenge killer in the game.
Click to expand...

Just as long as you understand that I'm not making a challenge to the current OU pokemon. The OU pokemon have not dropped past 70th place, and aside from Tentacruel, Mamoswine, etc. (current list is UU, but the debate in the UU thread did settle him as BL) few UUs actually are more popular than they are.
 
Way ahead of ya bud :-p

EDIT: Anyway, I'd like to make a notion for a more rigorous definition of OU now that these statistics are available. One definition is to take the 95% most popular pokemon and call them OU. I actually just wrote a program so that yall can see how it would turn out.

Code: 
   1. Blissey (40.46 %)
   2. Garchomp (35.71 %)
   3. Gyarados (28.43 %)
   4. Gengar (27.66 %)
   5. Tyranitar (26.94 %)
   6. Salamence (22.84 %)
   7. Weavile (21.63 %)
   8. Heracross (21.51 %)
   9. Metagross (21.24 %)
  10. Skarmory (20.24 %)
  11. Forretress (19.99 %)
  12. Starmie (19.74 %)
  13. Infernape (19.53 %)
  14. Bronzong (18.96 %)
  15. Cresselia (18.85 %)
  16. Swampert (18.16 %)
  17. Gliscor (17.68 %)
  18. Dusknoir (15.97 %)
  19. Heatran (15.76 %)
  20. Lucario (15.36 %)
  21. Breloom (14.3 %)
  22. Electivire (14.06 %)
  23. Togekiss (13.44 %)
  24. Hippowdon (11.22 %)
  25. Scizor (11.05 %)
  26. Yanmega (10.83 %)
  27. Donphan (10.34 %)
  28. Porygonz (10.2 %)
  29. Azelf (9.31 %)
  30. Weezing (9.2 %)
  31. Snorlax (8.7 %)
  32. Magnezone (8.17 %)
  33. Jirachi (8.08 %)
  34. Vaporeon (8.03 %)
  35. Mamoswine (8.03 %)
  36. Jolteon (7.66 %)
  37. Machamp (7.55 %)
  38. Milotic (7.09 %)
  39. Spiritomb (6.8 %)
  40. Abomasnow (6.76 %)
  41. Umbreon (6.69 %)
  42. Dragonite (6.54 %)
  43. Alakazam (6.38 %)
  44. Ambipom (6.26 %)
  45. Suicune (6.15 %)
  46. Ninjask (5.89 %)
  47. Zapdos (5.88 %)
  48. Crobat (5.75 %)
  49. Staraptor (5.71 %)
  50. Tangrowth (5.58 %)
  51. Gallade (5.53 %)
  52. Kingdra (5.5 %)
  53. Froslass (5.44 %)
  54. Tentacruel (5.38 %)
  55. Roserade (5.34 %)
  56. Rhyperior (5.32 %)
  57. Empoleon (5.16 %) <------ Proposed new OU mark 5% and above.
  58. Slowbro (4.9 %)
  59. Cradily (4.62 %)
  60. Aerodactyl (4.6 %)
  61. Azumarill (4.34 %)
  62. Dugtrio (4.21 %)
  63. Mismagius (4.2 %)
  64. Arcanine (4.07 %)
  65. Clefable (4.06 %)
  66. Celebi (3.93 %)
  67. Sceptile (3.89 %)
  68. Medicham (3.72 %)
  69. Typhlosion (3.65 %)
  70. Claydol (3.57 %)
  71. Ludicolo (3.56 %)
  72. Gardevoir (3.46 %)
  73. Houndoom (3.16 %)
  74. Flygon (3.14 %)
  75. Raikou (3.11 %)
  76. Charizard (3.11 %)
  77. Blaziken (2.92 %)
  78. Walrein (2.87 %)
  79. Miltank (2.77 %)
  80. Swellow (2.75 %)
  81. Regirock (2.74 %)
  82. Blastoise (2.64 %)
  83. Magmortar (2.62 %)
  84. Regice (2.57 %)
  85. Steelix (2.55 %)
  86. Poliwrath (2.51 %)
  87. Venusaur (2.46 %)
  88. Smeargle (2.42 %)
  89. Porygon2 (2.37 %)
  90. Hitmontop (2.31 %)
  91. Espeon (2.24 %)
  92. Marowak (2.18 %)
  93. Jumpluff (2.14 %)
  94. Cloyster (2.11 %)
  95. Toxicroak (2.11 %)
  96. Cacturne (2.1 %)
  97. Drapion (2.08 %)
  98. Absol (2.03 %)
  99. Feraligatr (2.02 %)
 100. Nidoking (1.97 %)
 101. Rampardos (1.92 %)
 102. Glaceon (1.81 %)
 103. Hariyama (1.78 %)
 104. Floatzel (1.76 %)
 105. Honchkrow (1.76 %)
 106. Shedinja (1.75 %)
 107. Lapras (1.65 %)
 108. Ninetales (1.64 %)
 109. Drifblim (1.62 %)
 110. Mantine (1.55 %)
 111. Hitmonchan (1.51 %)
 112. Shuckle (1.5 %)
 113. Gastrodon (1.46 %)
 114. Tauros (1.46 %)
 115. Ursaring (1.46 %)
 116. Torterra (1.43 %)
 117. Uxie (1.43 %)
 118. Lopunny (1.35 %)
 119. Registeel (1.31 %)
 120. Lanturn (1.3 %)
 121. Lickilicky (1.29 %)
 122. Persian (1.29 %)
 123. Butterfree (1.28 %)
 124. Shaymin (1.21 %)
 125. Slaking (1.17 %)
 126. Linoone (1.17 %)
 127. Scyther (1.17 %)
 128. Kabutops (1.16 %)
 129. Pikachu (1.16 %)
 130. Primeape (1.14 %)
 131. Ampharos (1.12 %)
 132. Manectric (1.1 %)
 133. Hitmonlee (1.04 %)
 134. Electrode (1.04 %)
 135. Slowking (1.03 %)
 136. Leafeon (1.02 %)
 137. Probopass (0.96 %)
 138. Mesprit (0.92 %)
 139. Hypno (0.85 %)
 140. Nidoqueen (0.84 %)
 141. Sharpedo (0.84 %)
 142. Pinsir (0.81 %)
 143. Exeggutor (0.8 %)
 144. Jynx (0.8 %)
 145. Kingler (0.76 %)
 146. Raichu (0.75 %)
 147. Relicanth (0.73 %)
 148. Venomoth (0.72 %)
 149. Zangoose (0.72 %)
 150. Camerupt (0.7 %)
 151. Kangaskhan (0.69 %)
 152. Meganium (0.65 %)
 153. Rotom (0.65 %)
 154. Banette (0.63 %)
 155. Moltres (0.58 %)
 156. Rapidash (0.54 %)
 157. Articuno (0.53 %)
 158. Altaria (0.53 %)
 159. Aggron (0.53 %)
 160. Dodrio (0.52 %)
 161. Muk (0.51 %)
 162. Sandslash (0.5 %)
 163. Omastar (0.49 %)
 164. Wailord (0.46 %)
 165. Torkoal (0.46 %)
 166. Quagsire (0.45 %)
 167. Skuntank (0.45 %)
 168. Octillery (0.44 %)
 169. Raticate (0.43 %)
 170. Vileplume (0.4 %)
 171. Armaldo (0.39 %)
 172. Bastiodon (0.39 %)
 173. Mr. Mime (0.36 %)
 174. Entei (0.34 %)
 175. Dunsparce (0.34 %)
 176. Luxray (0.31 %)
 177. Wigglytuff (0.31 %)
 178. Solrock (0.3 %)
 179. Politoed (0.3 %)
 180. Furret (0.3 %)
 181. Regigigas (0.29 %)
 182. Vespiquen (0.29 %)
 183. Sudowoodo (0.29 %)
 184. Shiftry (0.29 %)
 185. Crawdaunt (0.28 %)
 186. Qwilfish (0.27 %)
 187. Pachirisu (0.26 %)
 188. Exploud (0.25 %)
 189. Pidgeot (0.25 %)
 190. Glalie (0.25 %)
 191. Grumpig (0.25 %)
 192. Sableye (0.24 %)
 193. Flareon (0.23 %)
 194. Purugly (0.23 %)
 195. Golem (0.22 %)
 196. Dewgong (0.22 %)
 197. Chatot (0.2 %)
 198. Masquerain (0.2 %)
 199. Noctowl (0.2 %)
 200. Gorebyss (0.2 %)
 201. Rattata (0.18 %)
 202. Mightyena (0.17 %)
 203. Lumineon (0.17 %)
 204. Golduck (0.17 %)
 205. Clamperl (0.17 %)
 206. Beedrill (0.15 %)
 207. Minun (0.15 %)
 208. Xatu (0.15 %)
 209. Ditto (0.14 %)
 210. Dusclops (0.12 %)
 211. Spinda (0.12 %)
 212. Phione (0.12 %)
 213. Whiscash (0.12 %)
 214. Magneton (0.12 %)
 215. Stantler (0.12 %)
 216. Carnivine (0.11 %)
 217. Cherrim (0.11 %)
 218. Seviper (0.11 %)
 219. Bidoof (0.11 %)
 220. Arbok (0.1 %)
 221. Swalot (0.1 %)
 222. Plusle (0.1 %)
 223. Granbull (0.1 %)
 224. Caterpie (0.1 %)
 225. Victreebel (0.09 %)
 226. Kecleon (0.09 %)
 227. Lunatone (0.08 %)
 228. Pelipper (0.08 %)
 229. Bulbasaur (0.08 %)
 230. Seaking (0.08 %)
 231. Azurill (0.08 %)
 232. Mawile (0.08 %)
 233. Pineco (0.08 %)
 234. Magcargo (0.08 %)
 235. Bibarel (0.07 %)
 236. Bellossom (0.07 %)
 237. Mothim (0.07 %)
 238. Tropius (0.07 %)
 239. Chimecho (0.07 %)
 240. Girafarig (0.06 %)
 241. Huntail (0.06 %)
 242. Castform (0.06 %)
 243. Delibird (0.06 %)
 244. Pichu (0.06 %)
 245. Illumise (0.05 %)
 246. Trapinch (0.05 %)
 247. Gabite (0.05 %)
 248. Wormadam (0.05 %)
 249. Vigoroth (0.05 %)
 250. Chansey (0.05 %)
 251. Farfetch'd (0.05 %)
 252. Parasect (0.04 %)
 253. Togetic (0.04 %)
 254. Magikarp (0.04 %)
 255. Electabuzz (0.04 %)
 256. Ledian (0.04 %)
 257. Phanpy (0.04 %)
 258. Fearow (0.03 %)
 259. Mudkip (0.03 %)
 260. Aipom (0.03 %)
 261. Squirtle (0.03 %)
 262. Sunflora (0.03 %)
 263. Taillow (0.03 %)
 264. Charmander (0.03 %)
 265. Unown (0.02 %)
 266. Luvdisc (0.02 %)
 267. Ralts (0.02 %)
 268. Weedle (0.02 %)
 269. Ariados (0.02 %)
 270. Haunter (0.02 %)
 271. Pidgey (0.02 %)
 272. Rhydon (0.02 %)
 273. Wormadam-s (0.02 %)
 274. Chimchar (0.02 %)
 275. Wormadam-g (0.02 %)
 276. Gligar (0.01 %)
 277. Corsola (0.01 %)
 278. Kricketune (0.01 %)
 279. Beautifly (0.01 %)
 280. Staravia (0.01 %)
 281. Kakuna (0.01 %)
 282. Ivysaur (0.01 %)
 283. Wynaut (0.01 %)
 284. Charmeleon (0.01 %)
 285. Cranidos (0.01 %)
 286. Delcatty (0.01 %)
 287. Munchlax (0.01 %)
 288. Chikorita (0.01 %)
 289. Bayleef (0.01 %)
 290. Shuppet (0.01 %)
 291. Magmar (0.01 %)
 292. Onix (0.01 %)
 293. Dustox (0.01 %)
 294. Wartortle (0.01 %)
 295. Meowth (0.01 %)
 296. Happiny (0.01 %)
 297. Elekid (0.01 %)
After that, every pokemon was used less than 0.01% of the time.

Anyway, the Ladder has species clause in by default, meaning not only are these the most popular pokemon, but quite literally if you take everyone who is higher than 5%, you'll see them 95% of the time.

95% is an arbitrary statistics mark, but it is popular. With this definition, the top 57 pokemon make OU, and 2 pokemon, Froslass and Tentacruel.... for better or for worse... will be promoted from UU to OU.

This definition will change quickly however, or at least at the borders. Again, 95% seems like an arbitrary statistical mark... but it does at least give a bit of mathematical rigor to this problem.

You're welcome to disagree of course. I probably can think of a few other ways of doing it...
 
I'm surprised to see Gengar use being so high. It was only a while ago when people were talking about how Gengar would completely disappear because of Weavile.
 
as for your wtf UU

tentacruel actually has some usage with toxic spikes, specsmence counter, rapid spin, switches into leech seed
clefable is in fact a good pokemon, but its usefulness is only practical in UU
now is never got why froslass was so popular....
 
Stefywefy215 said:
as for your wtf UU

tentacruel actually has some usage with toxic spikes, specsmence counter, rapid spin, switches into leech seed
clefable is in fact a good pokemon, but its usefulness is only practical in UU
now is never got why froslass was so popular....
Click to expand...

Well, I actually use Tentacruel myself. So I'm not ripping on Tentacruel or anything.

Its just that I thought that the UU discussions were dieing down, and now Tentacruel might just be technically OU... I mean, we can't have a pokemon that is more popular than Slowbro, Aerodactyl and Dugtrio in UU can we?

Maybe... maybe not... this isn't the thread. Its just another monkey wrench that should be discussed... :-(
 
Before I can really say anything, does shoddy count a Poke each time they see it, regardless of the user? Cause if I just took out a UU team and click find match about 200 times in one day, couldnt' that affect the list? Or does it only count per user/team?
 
No, this is from the Shoddybattle LADDER matches, and Ladder match statistics only. And according to Colin's report, pokemon are counted every it is used.

EDIT: So... yeah, I guess you're right. >_> Pokemon are counted on every use. But given that every ladder match risks your ranking, I think the vast majority of the pokemon here are indeed serious.
 
Well if Shoddy hadn't add a new 'find match' button for non ladder matches, then the assesment of me saying I'd press the button 200 times to get 200 matches would mean that my team will be counted 200 timse for each of those match.

So my original question still goes unanswered.
 
Aeroblacktyl said:
Before I can really say anything, does shoddy count a Poke each time they see it, regardless of the user? Cause if I just took out a UU team and click find match about 200 times in one day, couldn't that affect the list?
Click to expand...

This would result in you losing 200 matches most likely. Hardly worth it! On top of that, 200 usages isn't all that many near the top of the list. (Blissey beats Garchomp by 3599 usages.) Furthermore, this list is not dynamically updated; it is based on the past month, and I did not disclose the intention to aggregate statistics during the month, so it is rather unlikely that somebody would have attempted to engineer false results.

Or does it only count per user/team?
Click to expand...
In my opinion it should not matter who has used the pokemon because if somebody plays more matches, this means that you are more likely to battle them, and hence encounter their pokemon, than somebody who plays fewer matches. Counting a pokemon only once per user (or "team", which is not a coherent notion in this context) would result is skewed statistics not indicative of the frequency with which pokemon are used.

Note that my assumption here is that what you are interested in is the chance of you encountering the pokemon in a battle against a random ladder opponent, which is what the list shows. (What might you be more interested in?)
 
Uh...........then I guess that's not what I'm interested in, as statistics in usage almost always means nothing in almost everything.

Although however, if I were to maintain a big pace of battling everyday with one random Poke, over a course of a month, then would I impact the list?
 
Aeroblacktyl said:
Uh...........then I guess that's not what I'm interested in, as statistics in usage almost always means nothing in almost everything.
Click to expand...

This is maybe the most ridiculous statement I've read all day. Care to justify that statement with something that resembles something that makes sense or has any sort of factual backing? If you're going to troll at least do a good job of it, not to mention the double post earlier...







Anyway I don't really see anything that invalidates this. It's unlikely anyone intentionally skewed the data since there was no knowledge of it's collection to influence people, and even if one or a few people were intentionally using one pokemon over and over as a gimmick or whatever the pool is large enough that I really doubt it had any noticeable effect on the outcome. This is far and away the most useful data we have for measuring usage, I'm really not sure why you're so insistent on trying to find a flaw in it that most likely doesn't exist.

EDIT: If nothing else, look at it this way. I think the best definition of the 'OU metagame' would be the highest level of non-uber play. With the lack of tournaments lately, where is the most competitive play happening at? I think at least as far as people near exclusively 'playing to win' the obvious answer is Shoddy's ladder. Since this list measures usage on that ladder, this is about as accurate of a list as we could ask for.

I definitely agree with

ColinJF said:
In my opinion it should not matter who has used the pokemon because if somebody plays more matches, this means that you are more likely to battle them, and hence encounter their pokemon, than somebody who plays fewer matches. Counting a pokemon only once per user (or "team", which is not a coherent notion in this context) would result is skewed statistics not indicative of the frequency with which pokemon are used.
Click to expand...




Although I think it's worth noting I'd be a little more skeptical of the same data taken from now until a month from now since I am certain at the very least MoP will try to skew the data to prove some inane point.
 
I nominate anything and everything on DT's stallrein team for OU because almost every other team I play is that.
 
Well, just because there is a for example 43% of Blisseys doesn't mean out of 100 battles I'd see Blissey 43 times. I few that shit that says you have a probability to see something however many times is pointless
 
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